Israel - Palestine discussion thread

LMSCorvetteGT2
@zzz_pt you really are too engrossed with what you say to even be a valuable person to discuss/argue/debate with on any threads in the current events forum. You rely far too much on knee jerk reactions rather than realistic view points and facts to be honest. The only time I see you happy is when the masses that agree for their own reasoning on the religion threads happen to side with you. Though they choose atheism or being agnostic for far different reason from what I see than you.

If you haven't noticed which is usually your issue, I've actually asked for more info and am quite educated on the Israeli-Palestinian relations it's not that hard to figure out, however since this is a more newer transgression I'm actually asking questions in here to be educated. I don't just sit on my laurels and say "yeah the plight of the Palestinians is vastly obvious here and the Jews have no right! Don't say any more cause it is obvious guys".

So my eyes are quite open, but once again it is this double standard you play at where you get to point your finger and not divulge anything further and can't possibly see how your rose tinted view is skewed. Bravo for actually contributing in an intellectual manner (since you didn't) to this thread, you've made everyone that much more knowledgeable with your skewed vision.

Israel like any sovereign nation has all the right in the world to strike back when attacked, those of Hamas gave up their right to live by attacking in the name of what ever God they think gives a damn. Israel however should have practiced more precision than sweeping death. Furthermore to be fair just like Hezbollah and Al Qaeda, Hamas is known to go to extremes to make sure their vision is achieved and if that means using children, women, elderly, or even pets as pawns in the chess match they will and have. So if you think this is a genocidal targeting of those groups by Israel you may want to educate yourself beyond the hipster trends that pop up during these moments. There is more to the story than social media has shown as they are also one sided.

Edit: Also where is your sense of justice for Israel when Palestine tries to kill innocents (more so fringe groups not all of Palestine) in Israel? What is this double standard I mean do enough turtle neck sweater wearing types get together waving a flag for this cause or another cause it's cool and you just jump on it like they do?

I mean it's the same silly attitude people had with Kony 2012 and look how that went.

Just because Hamas isn't as advance and precise or the Palestinians that side with them, they get a free pass?
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I don't really care about what you think about me. You have contributed 0 to this thread and at the same time you're saying I don't care about adding nothing substancial to it. I've said it once I can say it again: go and read the thread. I think I've posted a lot of links, videos, reports about this conflit (and day-to-day life of palestinians in Israel) unlike you.

Have you ever been there? I've been a few years ago.
Have you read, whatced, listened to what people (myself included) posted in this thread about the way Israel treats innocent palestinians every single day?

Your eyes are quite open and you're so educated... I know that. Usually blind people have their eyes open all the time too.

I'm against Hamas as much as I'm against the fact of Israel is killing and opressing innocent people. If you missed that part of my posts it's your fault... Oh I forgot. You didn't read the thread.

I won't comment your type of language and personal accusations though. I won't go that low. I'm not that educated.
 
23 July 2014

Establishes Independent, International Commission of Inquiry for the Occupied Palestinian Territory

The Human Rights Council today established an independent, international commission of inquiry to investigate all violations of international humanitarian law and international human rights law in the Occupied Palestinian Territory and concluded its Special Session on the human rights situation in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem.

In the resolution, adopted by a vote of 29 States in favour, 1 against and 17 abstentions, the Council condemned in the strongest terms the widespread, systematic and gross violations of international human rights and fundamental freedoms arising from the Israeli military operations carried out in the Occupied Palestinian Territory since 13 June 2014 that may amount to international crimes, directly resulting in the killing of more than 650 Palestinians, most of them civilians and more than 170 of whom were children, the injury of more than 4,000 people and the wanton destruction of homes, vital infrastructure and public properties.

In the resolution, the Council decided to urgently dispatch an independent, international commission of inquiry to investigate all violations of international humanitarian law and international human rights law in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, particularly in the occupied Gaza Strip, in the context of the military operations conducted since 13 June 2014, and to report to the Council at its twenty-eighth session.



10371473_943037199046421_7529469035763528367_n.jpg




USA's vote is laughable...



http://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=14898&LangID=E
 
a6m5
I'm going to lump these together, because I think we are too far apart on this particular topic, and my reply would apply to most of what was posted here.

I see war as conflict where many innocent people are pretty much guaranteed to be killed(in your words, murdered). IMO, that's an unavoidable side effect of war. It's not fair, but it matters little if you backed Hitler, Tojo, etc., if you reside by position strategic to the military, they are going to attack where you live.
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I don't see civilians dieing as murder necessarily. It's murder only when they're intentionally killed or not taken into consideration at all.

People may live around military targets. If that is the case, it's the job of the military to try not to kill those people.

You seem to have more faith in a control within wars, where I see them filled with chaos. These weapons, they miss more than they actually hit targets.
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Depends on the weapon. WWII carpet bombing is extinct because GBU weapons makes less bombs capable or more thorough destruction while reducing collateral damage. This is the kind of weapon Israel has. For the most part, the bombs and missiles go where they are pointed.


This only increases in urban warfare, like in Gaza. Humans also make stupid errors & decisions. I'm certain most soldiers, both sides, they are fighting scared, which would create more mistakes. Don't get me wrong, I'm not excusing cold blooded murders, I'm certain plenty of those do take place. I just don't agree that you can shoot around people in wars. In this Gaza conflict though, I'm starting to learn that this isn't exactly a traditional warfare. Palestinian side seems to lack control over its security, completely. If I was to make a suggestion, it would be for Palestinians to unite, take responsibility to choose peace, or be at war(I'm not judging, but sounds like they really need to unite, or split up).

Well, I have my view, and what can be bigger issue than avoiding war against another nation?
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I don't understand. How would they unite if they're disagreement? Why would the side that does not condone unjust attacks unite with the side that does?
 
This thread must be a heaven for the us government. If you post anything against Israel here, forget to travel to the United States of America. I am Muslim so I have no chance to see that country anyway.

What an awesome plan it was to attack your own country on 9/11 and make the Christian world hate the muslims. Invase their countries, steal their oil, kill their people and say it's for world freedom.

Not even Satan would been able to be that evil ;)
 
Sele1981
This thread must be a heaven for us government. If you post anything against Israel here, forget to travel to the United States of America. I am Muslim so I have no chance to see that country anyway.

What an awesome plan it was to attack your own country on 9/11 and make the Christian world hate the muslims. Inavse their countries, steal their oil, kill their people and say it's for world freedom.

Not even Satan would been able to be that evil ;)
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Not to throw this off topic but if you are making that claim then you need to show proof of what you are saying is true.
 
Blitz24
Not to throw this off topic but if you are making that claim then you need to show proof of what you are saying is true.
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There is enough proof out there. If you search for it. But then, the governments invented aome genius word called 'conspiracy theory'. And it is easy for people to say that word.

Whoever wants to see the truth, only needs to open his eyes. It is all there and it by time passes more and more people will see and accept it. But then it will be too late like always.

Looking back to American history, there were incredibly lot of crimes against humanity. But after the truth came out, too much time passed away and it was not so 'bad' anymore. Because people are used to say 'what gives, that was not my generation, that was the past generation'. If you wanna only one example of hundreds, search for agent orange. 30-40 years later the consequences are still there in Vietnam. But pff, that was 40 years ago what gives.

And the same will happen with 9/11. In 20-30 years people will realize it but will say what gives it was a long time ago.

Edit: 3000 people died on 9/11. After that, over 2.000.000 people died in Iraq and Afghanistan as a reason for 9/11. American and Isreali life always counts way way more than any other lifes.
 
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zzz_pt
Just bumped on this a while ago.

Palestinian children tortured, used as shields by Israel: U.N.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/20/us-palestinian-israel-children-idUSBRE95J0FR20130620
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The article does say this:

(Reuters) - A United Nations human rights body accused Israeli forces on Thursday of mistreating Palestinian children, including by torturing those in custody and using others as human shields.

Palestinian children in the Gaza and the West Bank, captured by Israel in the 1967 war, are routinely denied registration of their birth and access to health care, decent schools and clean water, the U.N. Committee on the Rights of the Child said.

"Palestinian children arrested by (Israeli) military and police are systematically subject to degrading treatment, and often to acts of torture, are interrogated in Hebrew, a language they did not understand, and sign confessions in Hebrew in order to be released," it said in a report.

But it also says this:

'The watchdog's 18 independent experts examined Israel's record of compliance with a 1990 treaty as part of its regular review of a pact signed by all nations except Somalia and the United States.'

That means there is no treaty, hence no violation of a treaty. Without the signature of the US, anything coming from the UN can pretty much be ignored as meaningless hand-waving.:rolleyes:
 
Sele1981
There is enough proof out there. If you search for it.
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That's not how the opinions section works. You made the claim, you back up the claim.

Sele1981
And the same will happen with 9/11. In 20-30 years people will realize it but will say what gives it was a long time ago.
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I suppose you think Germans today are responsible for the holocaust... or maybe since you're prone to conspiracy theories you think the holocaust is a lie.

Sele1981
Edit: 3000 people died on 9/11. After that, over 2.000.000 people died in Iraq and Afghanistan as a reason for 9/11. American and Isreali life always counts way way more than any other lifes.
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Iraq wasn't about September 11th. Afghanistan was, but if you're counting 2,000,000 people you're not counting with any sort of discrimination. I mean, technically there were people who died of old age in America on 9/11 as well, you didn't count them.
 
Sele1981
There is enough proof out there. If you search for it. But then, the governments invented aome genius word called 'conspiracy theory'. And it is easy for people to say that word.

Whoever wants to see the truth, only needs to open his eyes. It is all there and it by time passes more and more people will see and accept it. But then it will be too late like always.

Looking back to American history, there were incredibly lot of crimes against humanity. But after the truth came out, too much time passed away and it was not so 'bad' anymore. Because people are used to say 'what gives, that was not my generation, that was the past generation'. If you wanna only one example of hundreds, search for agent orange. 30-40 years later the consequences are still there in Vietnam. But pff, that was 40 years ago what gives.

And the same will happen with 9/11. In 20-30 years people will realize it but will say what gives it was a long time ago.

Edit: 3000 people died on 9/11. After that, over 2.000.000 people died in Iraq and Afghanistan as a reason for 9/11. American and Isreali life always counts way way more than any other lifes.
Click to expand...
if that is indeed the case, please explain then the happiness expressed by some groups of Arabs cheering and laughing when 9/11 happened.
 
I think the Israeli Government, most of the Israeli military commanders, and many Israeli soldiers are war criminals. Having said that, I plan to visit the USA sometime in the future. I don't think the NSA will care much, will it?


I shouldn't have written NSA, probably, if Edward Snowden is to be believed.


Oh snap ... I shouldn't have written Edward Snowden ....


I ... :scared:


:D
 
Blitz24
if that is indeed the case, please explain then the happiness expressed by some groups of Arabs cheering and laughing when 9/11 happened.
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That was proofed long time ago that this was a fake news. They took that footage from some other event and showed is as an reaction to 9/11.

@Danoff

I was born and live in Germany but I am not german so I can't judge about the holocaust. But I've gone through a lot of german racism in school as a child.

You know, they start showing you Holocaust footage and videos how people get burned in school when you are just 10 years old. This is crazy because no child is guilty of this and no child should see this. My psychology has affected a lot because of that videos. Until I was grown up I always thought the Germans will burn our house down.

And when we come back to topic, Germany is in the hand of jews. All media is in the hand of Zionists. You can't read anything bad about Israel on the newspapers. They kill hundreds of people in gaza but the germans show other stuff and are fully focused on propaganda against Russia. No news about Israel. And as that is not enough, there was a news 3 days ago that one Israeli got killed in gaza. That's worth a topic but not a word about the hundreds of killed Palestinians.

Bildzeitung, welt.de, spiegel, zeit.de... All big news papers in the hand of us and jews.

They control the thoughts of the German folks.
 
Sele1981
Germany is in the hand of jews. All media is in the hand of Zionists. You can't read anything bad about Israel on the newspapers. They kill hundreds of people in gaza but the germans show other stuff and are fully focused on propaganda against Russia. No news about Israel. And as that is not enough, there was a news 3 days ago that one Israeli got killed in gaza. That's worth a topic but not a word about the hundreds of killed Palestinians.

Bildzeitung, welt.de, spiegel, zeit.de... All big news papers in the hand of us and jews.
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But you're on the internet... why limit yourself to German pay-news? All you do is buy the broadcaster's agenda. Do your own research, don't base your knowledge on the press. Or think that German media is alone in a pro-Zionist slant to the news.

That doesn't mean that "Germany is in the hand of Jews, all media is in the hand of Zionists". You actually risk making yourself sound silly or reactionary by being so black/white on such a complex issue :)
 
zzz_pt
10371473_943037199046421_7529469035763528367_n.jpg




USA's vote is laughable...
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The USA voted for Europe because they don't have the balls enough to do it. Every European nation that matters and other major allies of the US abstained from the vote to follow the US's decision. France, Germany, Italy, United Kingdom, as well as Japan and South Korea. That's pathetic.
 
Sele1981
That was proofed long time ago that this was a fake news. They took that footage from some other event and showed is as an reaction to 9/11.

@Danoff

I was born and live in Germany but I am not german so I can't judge about the holocaust. But I've gone through a lot of german racism in school as a child.

You know, they start showing you Holocaust footage and videos how people get burned in school when you are just 10 years old. This is crazy because no child is guilty of this and no child should see this. My psychology has affected a lot because of that videos. Until I was grown up I always thought the Germans will burn our house down.

And when we come back to topic, Germany is in the hand of jews. All media is in the hand of Zionists. You can't read anything bad about Israel on the newspapers. They kill hundreds of people in gaza but the germans show other stuff and are fully focused on propaganda against Russia. No news about Israel. And as that is not enough, there was a news 3 days ago that one Israeli got killed in gaza. That's worth a topic but not a word about the hundreds of killed Palestinians.

Bildzeitung, welt.de, spiegel, zeit.de... All big news papers in the hand of us and jews.

They control the thoughts of the German folks.
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Have you ever thought about leaving Germany if you don't like it? What about making a living on one of your muslim countries of your choice?
 
Someone's a little off their rocker...

Israel's strikes are somewhere between precise, and broad. A precise strike with modern soldiers and equipment does still have civilian casualties, most likely less that 100. A broad strike similar to how Hamas is striking Israel would order well over a thousand civilian casualties.

Hamas target NUCLEAR reactor. Looks like these worthless people are trying to kill everyone in the region, including their own. Then again some of Hamas's rockets have landed in Gaza.

Oh so it looks like they don't care who they kill as long as it is someone. If only Hamas wasn't Islamic so that ISIS could just steamroll them into the ground.
 
Crispy
Someone's a little off their rocker...

Israel's strikes are somewhere between precise, and broad. A precise strike with modern soldiers and equipment does still have civilian casualties, most likely less that 100. A broad strike similar to how Hamas is striking Israel would order well over a thousand civilian casualties.

Hamas target NUCLEAR reactor. Looks like these worthless people are trying to kill everyone in the region, including their own. Then again some of Hamas's rockets have landed in Gaza.

Oh so it looks like they don't care who they kill as long as it is someone. If only Hamas wasn't Islamic so that ISIS could just steamroll them into the ground.
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Thanks for posting these unbiased links! I get it now! Every thing in Gaza is a potential shelter for terrorists. Every child in Gaza could grow up to be a new Hitler that wants to kill 6 million Jews. ISRAEL has every right to protect the chosen ones!

...
 
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Although the area of this conflict is very far from me, and RF is not involved here, I have a school friend on the vacation in Israel, and would not like anything bad happen to her. :nervous:
However, she says it's all cool around her.
 
VolkswagenX
Thanks for posting these unbiased links! I get it now! Every thing in Gaza is a potential shelter for terrorists. Every child in Gaza could grow up to be a new Hitler that wants to kill 6 million Jews. ISRAEL has every right to protect the chosen ones!

...
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So... Because it doesn't fit your opinion, and because it doesn't support the idea that Israel is the worst thing to happen to this world in the history of the universe and any type of future then it must be biased right? Where are you getting the rest of your post either?

I'm guessing this is biased too? Or will everyone ignore it because it shines bad on their opinions, like the last time I posted it. :rolleyes:
 
HKS racer
Have you ever thought about leaving Germany if you don't like it? What about making a living on one of your muslim countries of your choice?
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Did I say I don't like Germany? And now you come with the typical (German) answer, go back to your own country.

And only because I am Muslim, that does not mean that I live that way. I don't give a damn about religions. Any religion, including mine!
 

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