Israel - Palestine discussion thread

The only thing that stopped me going was the blockade at the Egypt crossing
Now I am a little intrigued by this detail and if you don't mind me asking, considering your stories, how did you get to know about the missiles and about the Palestinian patients? Have you ever seen them? My respect for you stays the same, because you are helping people in need anyway.

@squadops - I will have a comment for your long one...

@Tornado - Moving away from the topic, and missing this detail from the body
Implementation of resolution[edit]
Main article: Iraq disarmament crisis
Iraq agreed to the Resolution on 13 November.Weapons inspectors returned on 27 November, led by Hans Blix of UNMOVIC and Mohamed ElBaradei of the International Atomic Energy Agency. The inspectors had been absent from Iraq since December 1998 when they were withdrawn immediately prior to Operation Desert Fox.

So if Iraq agreed... where is the problem?

The then United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan said in September 2004 that: "From our point of view and the UN Charter point of view, it [the war] was illegal."[59][60]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legitimacy_of_the_2003_invasion_of_Iraq
and the BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3661134.stm
 
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So actually, what you mean to say is yes, we were right to question the lack of fatalities from military shootings? It turns out that they're using low powered firearms that are designed to be minimally lethal in such a manner as to intentionally minimise the chances of a casualty. And they're being used in a riot control-type situation, where such a weapon is fairly justified. I mean, all riot weapons are potentially lethal, that's just how they need to be.

It's unfortunate when children are injured in that way, but the mistake is made when they turn up throwing rocks at armed soldiers for me. I don't blame the soldiers for doing their job. Throwing rocks at armed soldiers is asking for trouble, I'm not going to let some spotty youth brain me with a rock just because he's young.

So actually, while you're trying to get everyone's backs up over the "innocent" children being hurt, some of us would actually understand and condone the circumstances that led to it, were we provided with adequate information. I don't approve of shooting children, but there are situations in which it can be the correct response.

How about the doubters find proof about Hamas weaponry systems, and I'll show them something about Israel strategical untouchable weapons arsenal... Deal?

Dodging again.

Israel's weapons are not the point. Hamas' weapons are not the point either. Palestine situating military targets on top of hospitals is.

Get it straight.

Off topic - My advice? Do yourself a favor and try to calm down. Seriously!

I find it amusing that you manage to confuse direct speech with an excess of emotion.

I have written my posts in such a way as to be in contrast to your own, in the hope that you might recognise the value of speaking plainly and clearly.

Obviously not, if you can't distinguish between speaking plainly and clearly and someone who needs to calm down.

Where I come from, calling a spade a collapsible lightweight infantry entrenching tool is not a virtue. If someone is talking bollocks, I'm going to tell them that they're talking bollocks. It's not the most polite thing in the world, but it's clear and simple communication, and that has it's own value.

Sometimes people can appreciate that. I was hoping that by being direct and honest with you perhaps there could be some understanding reached. Perhaps you didn't understand how obscure and indirect your communication was.

Obviously you do, and you're just fine with it. Go figure.

I know how to handle mental health patients, so it is hard to offend me. I've dealt with a lot worse.

That you come in here with the attitude that you're dealing with a bunch of mental health patients probably doesn't help either.

I find it odd that you phrased this statement so vaguely as well. You're careful not to claim any professional qualification, and yet you wish to identify yourself with those professionals who deal with mental health. Why is that?

You're not a doctor or a psychiatrist unless English is not your first language. No native speaking English doctor would use language as carelessly as you do, and no mental health professional would be as incapable of comprehending how different people can view the same information in different ways.

I question the qualification that you're claiming for yourself. "Knowing how to handle mental health patients" could be a bouncer at a nightclub, but I rather suspect you're aspiring to more than that. If you want to be taken seriously, you'll need to be more specific or else I (and most others I suspect) are just going to assume that this is more creatively worded half-truths.

Nobody is here to answer any questions.

This is a discussion board. Let's assume that we're both adults and can understand that discussion involves the exchange of ideas, which commonly includes as a major component both parties asking and answering questions of each other to clarify misunderstanding and to progress the understanding of all involved.

It's absolutely not true that nobody is here to answer any questions, because I know that at least one person is: me. I'm absolutely willing to answer any questions about any opinions or facts I may have posted. Most other people seem to be as well, if you ask them something.

On the other hand, by you posting this you've made it abundantly clear that you are not here to answer questions. So why are you on a discussion board, where the primary action is discussion?

If all you want to do is post your opinion, why are you here instead of blogging? That's the medium that has been developed for that sort of social interaction, and it's very good at it.
 
Dilemma for Israel as Palestinians join war crimes court
(Reuters) - The Palestinian Authority becomes the 123rd member of the International CriminalCourt on Wednesday, a major step that could move its decades-long conflict with Israel into a courtroom.

From April 1, the court will have automatic jurisdiction over any crimes committed in the territory of the Palestinian Authority, or by its citizens. It has also already received permission to make a preliminary examination of events since June 13, 2014, shortly before Israel began a military offensive in Gaza. Several Palestinian-linked NGOs are expected to submit legal arguments and dossiers of evidence to the court in the coming days or weeks, but the state of Palestine is not expected to make a formal referral to the prosecutor, which would trigger the appointment of a panel of judges.

Ooooops...
 
For someone so gung Ho and one sided about this situation you should realize that Palestine could easily incriminate themselves in the ICC. Note that since they are in agreement with Hamas and their future state includes the property ran by Hamas, they are going to have to explain all of the unprovoked rocket fire at civilians. In addition. What if Palestine wins some of their claims and loses others and is in fact guilty of war crimes themselves? Will they actually follow all of the ICC's ruling or will they, like some people have strongly hinted at in this thread, proclaim they are 100% innocent and that the suicide bombers, use of human shields and rocket fire at civilians never happened?
 
A link to some old news with no opinion about it. I have to assume someone thinks this is an 'aha gotcha' moment which it clearly isn't. I looked a little closer into it when @Blitz24 posted about it last week 👍

It seems to me as the ICC goes forward, aspects of the conflict are going to accelerate leading to quicker and harsher decisions on both sides.
 

Thank you for this... Sad story.

This is how it looked in Sept 2014
BxMVsqK.jpg


This is what I found about it:

Israel used fabricated images to justify bombing al-Wafa hospital

and

Israel Bombs Gaza’s Only Rehab Hospital: Staff Forced to Evacuate Paralyzed Patients After Shelling - video and transcript of the interview with Hospital's Executive Director Basman Alashi
SHARIF ABDEL KOUDDOUS: Well, power lines were cut, and Gaza was dark much of the night. Many of the hotels and media centers do have generators and power. There’s a severe problem with water, with water lines being cut, as well. And this has been a problem for Gaza not only during the war, but Gaza under siege. And that’s what people keep saying, is that, you know, "We have to come out of this with something." And I think also that Hamas, as a movement, has nothing to lose at this point, because if they don’t achieve anything out of this war, it all stops, and they’re still under siege. Nothing changes. The borders are closed. You know, people are desperate here, and so they need to see some lifting of the occupation; otherwise, if we just have a ceasefire and the occupation continues, then it will just be a very tenuous truce that will inevitably come apart, as it has done for the last six years.

Edit - and this
Israeli doctors’ group to Ya'alon: Don’t bomb near Gaza City hospital - not all the Israeli's are the same...
According to international humanitarian law, the claim that fighters from Hamas or other organizations are supposedly operating from within the civilian population does not in itself turn that population and civilian sites into military targets that may be attacked. This is even more true in the case of a public hospital from which some of the patients clearly cannot be evacuated.
 
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Thank you for this... Sad story.

This is how it looked in Sept 2014
BxMVsqK.jpg


This is what I found about it:

Israel used fabricated images to justify bombing al-Wafa hospital

and

Israel Bombs Gaza’s Only Rehab Hospital: Staff Forced to Evacuate Paralyzed Patients After Shelling - video and transcript of the interview with Hospital's Executive Director Basman Alashi


Edit - and this
Israeli doctors’ group to Ya'alon: Don’t bomb near Gaza City hospital - not all the Israeli's are the same...
http://www.timesofisrael.com/iran-militia-chief-destroying-israel-nonnegotiable/

The commander of the Basij militia of Iran’s Revolutionary Guards said that “erasing Israel off the map” is “nonnegotiable,” according to an Israel Radio report Tuesday.

In 2014, Naqdi said Iran was stepping up efforts to arm West Bank Palestinians for battle against Israel, adding the move would lead to Israel’s annihilation, Iran’s Fars news agency reported.

“Arming the West Bank has started and weapons will be supplied to the people of this region,” Naqdi said.

“The Zionists should know that the next war won’t be confined to the present borders and the Mujahedeen will push them back,” he added. Naqdi claimed that much of Hamas’s arsenal, training and technical knowhow in the summer conflict with Israel was supplied by Iran.
 
@Johnnypenso - you are on the wrong thread

The hackers of "Anonymous" take a side in the Israel - Palestinians conflict

In a spooky video "message to Israel" posted on YouTube March 4, Anonymous declared yet another cyber attack on April 7, which is one week before Holocaust Remembrance day.
Totally in news delivering style, the video clip shows a man wearing an Anonymous mask and threatening to take down Israeli servers and websites related to critical infrastructure next week, promising to 'erase you from cyberspace'.
"We will erase [Israel] from cyberspace in our electronic Holocaust," says the video. "As we did many times, we will take down your servers, government websites, Israeli military sites, and Israeli institutions."
The cyber activist group declared Palestinians youths as a 'symbol of freedom', and urged them to "never give up. [Anonymous] are with you and will continue to defend you." The group criticized the Israeli government, saying that they have not stopped "endless human right violations" and "illegal settlements."



http://thehackernews.com/2015/03/anonymous-hacker-israel.html
 
Iran funding and providing palestinians with weapons and the commander of Iran's Revolutionary Guard saying the only viable outcome is wiping Israel off the map is off topic but Anonymous threatening cyber terrorism against Israel is on topic?

Haven't you noticed that this is the Anti Israel post biased news links thread?
 
Moving away from the topic
Nope. You were the one who broached the topic about how infallible the UN is and how even their non-binding, failed resolutions should be considered unquestionable legal precedent. 1441 is merely one example where not only was the entire situation started based on the UN's previous failure to enforce almost all of their own resolutions of the two decades prior, but was deliberately designed in a way so that Iraq was not being threatened with military action if they failed to comply fully with the terms of the Security Council; and could not be used as justification by independent military action either. The resolution was defended for months as not being a pretext for invasion, which was the only reason that it had support from several of the countries on the Security Council, and that another meeting of the Security Council would be required to even outline any consequences for Iraq failing to comply fully.



Iraq failed to comply fully, at least according to the US and UK. The Security Council refused to meet regarding consequences since it was obvious that invasion was what was being sought. A coalition of UN countries acting under the pretext of Desert Storm-era UN actions, but acting outside the UN's supervision, invaded anyway. The fact that the legality of the war has been question literally from the start isn't a feather in your cap on the matter, since it was done regardless of whether it was legal on UN terms and you're the one arguing that everything the UN says cannot be questioned.




This here:
and missing this detail from the body
Is also pretty amusing, since it's blatant that you didn't read anything in the quote Johnnypenso posted above beyond the first sentence. It should go without saying that Iran supposedly claiming responsibility for funding, training and supplying Hamas terrorists to attack Israel is completely relevant in a thread talking about Israel attacking Hamas terrorists.


Now compare that to your "news" about some douche in a Guy Fawkes mask posting a video on YouTube about how afraid Israel should be of some script kiddies.
 
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Iran funding and providing palestinians with weapons and the commander of Iran's Revolutionary Guard saying the only viable outcome is wiping Israel off the map is off topic but Anonymous threatening cyber terrorism against Israel is on topic?
This is going to be difficult for you. Here is a speech Khamenei delivered almost 2 years after he became leader. At paragraphs 17 and 18 he explains how Israel will "disappear" almost the same way Soviet Union got eliminated.
Later Khamenei said Israel should be removed by a general referendum among all of the inhabitants of that piece of land.
10 months ago he said "As Imam Khomeini used to say, Israel should be gone. However, destruction of Israel, as the only true cure, doesn't mean eliminating the jewish people of the region. For this reasonable task, there is a pragmatic mechanism that Islamic Republic has offered in international forums. According to this mechanism which is plausible to all nations, all the people living there (in Palestine) and belong there should decide their government in a referendum and by this the occupying, fake regime (Israel) will be removed." (Paragraph 4 and 5 http://farsi.khamenei.ir/news-content?id=27030)
I don't know if Google translate will pick the whole text for you....
Thread name says "Israel attacks Gaza"...

@Tornado
acting outside the UN's supervision, invaded anyway
Thank you for your comment. UN was not giving permission for invasion.

Now compare that to your "news" about some douche in a Guy Fawkes mask posting a video on YouTube about how afraid Israel should be of some script kiddies.
the end of the article explains how
Past targets of the the hacktivist group includes official websites of the Israeli prime minister, the Bank of Israel, the Israeli Defense Force (IDF), the Embassy of Israel to the United States and the Israeli President’s official website.

Edit @squadops - my comment on your long one coming.
 
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None of which explains why Johnnypenso's post was off topic, unsurprisingly. Presumably then, since you didn't actually attempt to refute his link for lacking relevance like you claimed, this "pragmatic mechanism" is the same one that the US used in the 1980s, where we just gave money and guns to people who happened to hate people that the US hated instead of getting our hands dirty.



Though it's interesting that you've gone on tirades about quotes and excerpts being taken out of context and translated poorly from their original meaning, and then essentially told Johnnypenso that a slightly smarter version of Babelfish being used on an Arabic speech is all you need to learn Iran's true intentions.
 
Thank you for your comment. UN was not giving permission for invasion.
And yet it happened anyway, with no consequences handed out or even breathed towards the groups involved despite directly going against the wishes of about a third of the Security Council; who only voted for the resolution in the first place specifically because what happened was deliberately outlined to not happen.
This was following 10 years of internal conflict between Iraq and Iran, including a particularly notable several year stint where the UN passed resolutions year after year that amounted to things like "Hey, guys, can you stop using nerve gas on each other? Pretty please?" and "Can you guys take a break from shooting each other or something?"; while nearly every permanent member on the Security Council continued to sell arms to both countries anyway.




Clearly something must be amiss with the all powerful, all knowing UN Security Council and their omnipotent, legally binding Resolutions. Especially when it comes to the Middle East.

the end of the article explains how
So probably just some script kiddies launching DDoS attacks, and some douche in front of a camera with a Guy Fawkes mask making nondescript threats under the guise of speaking for a largely autonomous "group".


article-1373621-0B7D8E5C00000578-239_468x286.jpg


Scary.
 
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This is going to be difficult for you. Here is a speech Khamenei delivered almost 2 years after he became leader. At paragraphs 17 and 18 he explains how Israel will "disappear" almost the same way Soviet Union got eliminated.
Later Khamenei said Israel should be removed by a general referendum among all of the inhabitants of that piece of land.
10 months ago he said "As Imam Khomeini used to say, Israel should be gone. However, destruction of Israel, as the only true cure, doesn't mean eliminating the jewish people of the region. For this reasonable task, there is a pragmatic mechanism that Islamic Republic has offered in international forums. According to this mechanism which is plausible to all nations, all the people living there (in Palestine) and belong there should decide their government in a referendum and by this the occupying, fake regime (Israel) will be removed." (Paragraph 4 and 5 http://farsi.khamenei.ir/news-content?id=27030)
I don't know if Google translate will pick the whole text for you....
Thread name says "Israel attacks Gaza"...

@Tornado

Thank you for your comment. UN was not giving permission for invasion.


the end of the article explains how


Edit @squadops - my comment on your long one coming.
No problem with the translation at all, seems spot on to me. Hope it isn't too difficult for you:

Everything is possible. All the mountains that hinder the movement of people, it is removable.Forty years ago, when forty years have passed, the fate of Israel is perishable and must be destroyed. Until a while ago, no one thought that these superpowers East would collapse.

Time and again it has carried with pride and arrogance .
He stressed: As Imam Myfrmvd, Israel must be wiped out. The destruction of Israel as the only real cure, which means the elimination of the Jewish people in this area...

With the Lord's help, this cruel and murderous regime destroyed,

But of course he means the good definition of destroyed and the good wiped out...not the bad one right?

I did find this part particularly funny...funny like going to a KKK meeting with my pointy hat on, and listening to the other pointy hats cheering wildly after the Chairwoman of the NAACP gives a speech on civil rights:

Gaza's dominant behavior with cruelty to prove that they are human beings, human rights, humanity, faith, and have absolutely no say anything about freedom and human rights, freedom and human rights are ridiculed

EDIT: Found these gems off to the left under "SMS's":

upload_2015-3-31_22-54-51.png


I suppose they mean the good massacre right?
 
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Didn't the ayatollah recently mention that they have no intentions to honor the agreement and was found to say "death to America"? So does that mean that we are in opposite land where Israel is full of liars who have been only a useless strain to America and our real allies are the Palestinians and Iranians? I'm not saying that Israel is 100% angelic and they are far from it but this situation deals with people who may not think rationally in believing that other people matter. Or even worse, they may not care and are using the "victim" card of self oppression and 1984 tactics in order to get their way?
 
The idiot in the video exposed himself to CIA ear-scanning auricular recognition software. Now the GCHQ will be able to track him down once his friends start crime-doing. What an idiot. Is this rael life?
 
Just as you were sure about the elections, which did not pan out, I don't expect your prediction over a veto at the U.N. to either. IIRC your thought was the general people of Israel don't support Netanyahu because they're interested in the kind of 'peace' you advocate. Is it ironic to realize the way he tipped the scales and insured victory was by pandering to the hardliners who don't want to see a Palestinian state at the last moment?

We are looking at an area dominated by extremists... Israelis elected Likud, the same way Palestinians elected Hamas. With or without Bibi, peace will be achieved. Despite the final results, don't forget how almost half of the Israelis voted something else, so they have a different position than Likud party.

As far as your typical left wing eating up of "the poor kids throwing rocks against a ruthless army" is concerned, the Palestinians have been given so many chances at gaining a reasonable state it's painful to watch them stick to something they deem fair.

If you want to learn about peace agreements, you will find out that, on the Palestinian side, are few very important issues for which they are negotiating very hardly. The refugees right to return, The access to water sources and the jewish settlements. Referring only to the last missed chance, Martin Indyk (borned to a jewish family in London in 1951) - the US appointed representative to the mediations, former US ambassador to Israel, stated how Israelis were to blame for the break-down of the negotiations
On 2 May 2014, the Hebrew daily Yedioth Ahronoth, cited an anonymous senior American official as placing the blame for the break-down in talks mainly on Israel's settlement stance, directly quoting the remark:'Netanyahu did not move more than an inch." Israeli sources in Jerusalem later reported that the remarks came from the US Special Envoy Indyk himself, who was reportedly preparing to hand in his resignation.[80]
from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013–14_Israeli–Palestinian_peace_talks
Here is Martin Indyk at The Washington Institute for near East Policy, speaking about what happened.

and the transcript HERE
He also says
If you care about Israel’s future, as I know so many of you do and as I do, you should understand that rampant settlement activity – especially in the midst of negotiations – doesn’t just undermine Palestinian trust in the purpose of the negotiations; it can undermine Israel’s Jewish future. If this continues, it could mortally wound the idea of Israel as a Jewish state – and that would be a tragedy of historic proportions.

Here you'll find a brief history (video) of the pattern Israel shows when it comes to the Peace process.

If you want to go into more detail, we can do it.

Good read.
Sharett's records document this policy of "sacred terrorism" and expose the myths of Israel's "security needs" and the "Arab threat" that have been treated like self-evident truths from the creation of Israel to the present, when Israeli terrorism against Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and against Palestinians and Lebanese in South Lebanon, has reached an intolerable level. It is becoming increasingly evident that the exceptional demographic and geographic alterations in Israeli society within the present generation have been brought about, not as the accidental results of the endeavor to guard "Israel's security" against an "Arab threat," but by a drive for lebensraum

@Imari
It's unfortunate when children are injured in that way, but the mistake is made when they turn up throwing rocks at armed soldiers for me. I don't blame the soldiers for doing their job. Throwing rocks at armed soldiers is asking for trouble, I'm not going to let some spotty youth brain me with a rock just because he's young.

So actually, while you're trying to get everyone's backs up over the "innocent" children being hurt, some of us would actually understand and condone the circumstances that led to it, were we provided with adequate information. I don't approve of shooting children, but there are situations in which it can be the correct response

In a normal situation, the crowd will be facing the police, not the army. The fact that the army is fighting, shows how occupation works. It is not tear gas or rubber bullets, it is heavy military weapons. Kids are stupid. When peace will be achieved, those kids or teenagers will need to have access to education, because as long as they will stay in school, they will not be on the streets to do stupid things. Using local values, Palestinians can channel their education for a future where arabs and jews can live separately in the same house, but can share the same entrance, if you know what I mean.

I'm absolutely willing to answer any questions about any opinions or facts I may have posted.
Remember to stay on topic though...

@Blitz24
Palestine could easily incriminate themselves in the ICC.
Whoever is guilty needs to be prosecuted and charged under international law. That is what they are aiming for.

@Johnnypenso
Iran funding and providing palestinians with weapons and the commander of Iran's Revolutionary Guard saying the only viable outcome is wiping Israel off the map is off topic but Anonymous threatening cyber terrorism against Israel is on topic?
You need to make a clear distinction between Gaza Strip and West Bank. This thread is about Gaza Strip. Going in the direction you are pointing, we will have a domino effect (which is tempting by the way), and will end up somewhere else. Anonymous is threatening because of the Gaza constant abuse and crimes, because of the occupation. Watch the video... again.

@Omnis
The idiot in the video exposed himself to CIA ear-scanning auricular recognition software. Now the GCHQ will be able to track him down once his friends start crime-doing. What an idiot. Is this rael life?

I don't think that is his real voice. If he actually is not proven of doing something wrong, tracking him will be almost useless.
 
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I wonder if the (nonexistent) authority you believe yourself to have regarding what people are and aren't allowed to talk about in this thread is derived from your inability to have even the smallest amount of self reflection regarding what you post.



Or, put another way, are you simply saying certain posts are off topic just because you can't dance around them anymore?
 
I wonder if the (nonexistent) authority you believe yourself to have regarding what people are and aren't allowed to talk about in this thread is derived from your inability to have even the smallest amount of self reflection regarding what you post.



Or, put another way, are you simply saying certain posts are off topic just because you can't dance around them anymore?
Resolution 1441 fells into the same "hijacking the thread" description. Do not get me wrong, it is a generous and interesting topic, but it is about a different historical event. As you probably already noticed, I can divagate a little, but then I must go back to the topic. I understand commenters wish to make their point by trying to undermine the sources, when my approach is to offer an alternative, but I don't have any control over how people think they can have a constructive exchange of opinions, by trying to destroy ones source credibility. I think we need to listen to what is being said or written on all the sides, and then use common logic.
 
We are looking at an area dominated by extremists... Israelis elected Likud, the same way Palestinians elected Hamas. With or without Bibi, peace will be achieved. Despite the final results, don't forget how almost half of the Israelis voted something else, so they have a different position than Likud party.

So the people vote out of necessity, there is a point were pie in the sky ideals meet the pavement in the road to reality. Are you still of the opinion that all of Israel's foe only wish to destroy the government and not the people along with them?

If you want to learn about peace agreements, you will find out that, on the Palestinian side, are few very important issues for which they are negotiating very hardly. The refugees right to return, The access to water sources and the jewish settlements. Referring only to the last missed chance, Martin Indyk (borned to a jewish family in London in 1951) - the US appointed representative to the mediations, former US ambassador to Israel, stated how Israelis were to blame for the break-down of the negotiations

Ah, I learn from participating in threads like these, mainly because I do research(even if it's simple google searching) I look for hard facts, media opinions, history, laws, responses to and so forth. You boil it all down to what you call 'the occupation' well at least you are consistent.

Resolution 1441 fells into the same "hijacking the thread" description.

A description that is yours, we have mods and they are 1/2 way decent at doing mod type things.
 
So the people vote out of necessity, there is a point were pie in the sky ideals meet the pavement in the road to reality. Are you still of the opinion that all of Israel's foe only wish to destroy the government and not the people along with them?
The elections have two components - internal social and economical aspect of the society, and external (which matters the less) with it's regional or worldwide strategical/political aspect. Israel's elections weren't only about the "2 state solution". Nobody is targeting the Israels multicultural society (I cannot say only simply jewish). They are speaking about the Zionist leaders.

You boil it all down to what you call 'the occupation' well at least you are consistent.
Occupation its Zionism's fruit, and it must end. Occupation ignited some crazy ideology in the arab world and gives palestinian youth a reason to fight and die, brings only pain and suffering on both sides. Zionism is poison in some jewish minds.
 
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The elections have two components - internal social and economical aspect of the society, and external (which matters the less) with it's regional or worldwide strategical/political aspect. Israel's elections weren't only about the "2 state solution". Nobody is targeting the Israels multicultural society (I cannot say only simply jewish). They are speaking about the Zionist leaders.

I'd say the last elections weight swayed heavy on the foreign relations side. I don't believe all the quotes I see from Iran, Hamas, and others distinguish between the two. I include the holocaust denials as well.

Occupation its Zionism's fruit, and it must end. Occupation ignited some crazy ideology in the arab world and gives palestinian youth a reason to fight and die, brings only pain and suffering on both sides. Zionism is poison in some jewish minds.

Please explain this 'crazy ideology' specifically.
 
I'd say the last elections weight swayed heavy on the foreign relations side. I don't believe all the quotes I see from Iran, Hamas, and others distinguish between the two. I include the holocaust denials as well.
It is a words war. Historically, Iran is not an "attacking" nation. You do not believe, but the reality shows they do differentiate.

Please explain this 'crazy ideology' specifically.
One of the many examples... Bin Laden's motivation
"The Palestinian cause has been the main factor that, since my early childhood, fueled my desire, and that of the 19 freemen (Sept. 11 bombers), to stand by the oppressed, and punish the oppressive Jews and their allies," the al Qaeda chief said.

"We shall continue the fight, Allah willing, against the Israelis and their allies, in order to pursue justice for the oppressed, and we shall not give up one inch of Palestine, as long as there is still a single true Muslim alive."
from
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/bin-laden-palestinian-cause-prompted-9-11/
 
Resolution 1441 fells into the same "hijacking the thread" description.
No it doesn't. You've staked a considerable amount of your arguments on the pretext that the UN's collective opinion on matters pertaining to the Middle East should be considered final, so there is no reason to actually defend any points if they happen to align with theoretical UN sentiment. Why is that true? It wasn't true in 2002, when the UN opinion regarding Middle East stability was immediately undermined by members who usually have the most clout when they didn't get what they wanted. It wasn't true in 1992, when Iraq went about almost immediately going against UN Resolutions as it pertained to the end of the Gulf War and the UN looked the other way. It wasn't true in 1982, when the UN kept passing increasingly strongly worded Resolutions against the Iranian-Iraqi war up to and including accusing the countries of actual war crimes; while at the same time nearly every country on the very same Security Council was funneling money and arms (both secretly and not so secretly) to both countries. And that's just regarding Resolutions about one country in the Middle East.





You're claiming your arguments are beyond reproach because the UN, who are expressing similar sentiment, are beyond reproach. And I'm telling you that 30 years of 🤬 things up in the region, with Iraq being just one prominent example, very much proves that the UN is not an ultimate arbiter of what is just even in the rare times that the organization isn't completely toothless. That makes 1441 on topic.
 
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