- 2,433
- The failed experiment entitled “California”.
But what did if I click my heels like Dorothy?
Just joking man. I love this game to bits. Crappy economy and all 👍🏼
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Kazunori Yamauchi Responds to Gran Turismo 7 Fan Outrage
- Thread starter Famine
- 2,048 comments
- 163,665 views
But what did if I click my heels like Dorothy?
Just joking man. I love this game to bits. Crappy economy and all 👍🏼
Far longer than I have in the old games. How are you not getting this? Why are you ignoring that part?
I'll put it simply.
I want to obtain all the cars in Gran Turismo 7 in about 250 hours, preferably where most of that time is done completing pre-defined content within the game, or completing a variety of self-created content. Not repeating the same races over and over.
Is that, or is that not, reasonable? Is that "instant gratification"? Simple questions.
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Grimm6Jack
(Banned)
- 1,535
- Setubal, Portugal
- Grimm66Jack
- 16,534
- Melbourne
- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
Yes, but actually no, the phrase "bona fide lies" is legitimate. Were lies told in a courtroom, bona fide lies or merely misleading.
It's "bona fide", only it isn't because that's a Latin phrase that means "in good faith". You can't lie in good faith!
Lying and Insincerity
Andreas Stokke presents a comprehensive study of lying and insincere language use. He investigates how lying relates to other forms of insincerity and explores the kinds of attitudes that go with insincere uses of language. Part I develops an account of insincerity as a linguistic phenomenon...
books.google.ie
Great, well congratulations, you now understand why people have an issue with GT7, where it can actually take up to 4000 hours.
Glad we finally got there.
- 16,534
- Melbourne
- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
- 1,251
- Australia
What exactly were you saying then apart from "everyone needs to wait because there's some grandiose lesson to be learned, and patience is a virtue, even though it's entirely unreasonable in this game to wait this long to get this car"
- 87,604
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Wow, what an awful corruption of language that is. It looks like they're trying to draw a distinction between lies that the person lying believes to be true and lies that the person lying does not believe to be true - which doesn't wash at all.
A lie you believe to be true isn't a lie, just something you believe that's also wrong. It's certainly in good faith (and therefore "bona fide") but not a lie; in fact the standard legal definition of a lie in both US and UK law is something intended to deceive (weirdly, UK law doesn't necessarily require it to be false, but both require the intent to deceive or mislead), and that can never be "in good faith".
Perhaps they're suggesting something more sociopathic, such as someone who tells lies (I note the phrase "bald-faced" is used - meaning something that is obvious and no attempt made to conceal it; this possibly derives from the... odd concept that wearing a beard is deceptive) but believes their own lies due to some mental disorder?
Edit: Oh, they're Finnish. Yeah. Don't know anything about Finnish law, and the language is crazy difficult.
On the bright side, at least this part of the discussion is more interesting than the usual "people want everything in five minutes today because millennials" stuff.
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- 4,897
- UK
We understand the point of rewarding but there is a certain point where people find the balance of whether its actually worth it for them to waste away hours for one virtual car or simply taking a shortcut into microtransactions with the most desirable cars are on a time limit to be more enticing to click away at the second option and I already pointed this out in another thread but how many casuals know that these cars come around later or soon again. Additionally, even we as a collective who are keen followers of this game have no clue what cars are going to be added into Hagerty and there isn't clear time structure for when a specific car comes, in combination of 2 x 18mill+ cars being on at the same time.... in other words this is FOMO.
No one is hinting at this, but at least in 'life' time can be somewhat respected and now some resort to b-spec scripts via remote play because of the lack of awareness by PD. I guess it goes to show Kaz is oblivious to the human nature that we are innovative creatures in his desire to combat 'grinders'.
No, you said people want instant gratification when nobody actually said that.
By all means if someone says "I just want all the cars handed to me right now" then tell that person why you think it's unreasonable. But when all people are saying is that they want it to be faster than it is now, these comments just grind gears.
It was the first result I got back, as an example of a use where the phrase "bona fide lies" has application.
Bona fide isn't limited to being a literal translation of in good faith, but can also be used in reference to "real or genuine".
So, "bona fide lies" simply reads as; Were you really lying or merely being misleading.
Grimm6Jack
(Banned)
- 1,535
- Setubal, Portugal
- Grimm66Jack
- 16,534
- Melbourne
- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
The outcry over such controversy is what annoys me the most. I get that the grind is ridiculous but the carry-on and review-bombing is completely over the top. The game doesn't become unplayable because the payouts are worse. Yes, it makes it harder, but people are acting as though the game is broken now.
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- 65
- Uberlândia - MG
- CozmicDragon95
You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
Gran Turismo 7 made that quote come to life. This is just sad.
As if the always online wasn't enough of an issue, he goes and says he doesn't want people to grind the same race over and over again, when 1) it's what we've been doing since 1997, and 2) Polyphony made a change to the game that basically forces players to do just that, or fork over the cash to buy credits. I don't know whether to laugh knowing I was right about this game the entire time, or cry at the sad state this franchise has fallen to...
Gran Turismo 7 made that quote come to life. This is just sad.
As if the always online wasn't enough of an issue, he goes and says he doesn't want people to grind the same race over and over again, when 1) it's what we've been doing since 1997, and 2) Polyphony made a change to the game that basically forces players to do just that, or fork over the cash to buy credits. I don't know whether to laugh knowing I was right about this game the entire time, or cry at the sad state this franchise has fallen to...
- 2,131
- Porto
- JPSILVA1893
Well it depends, the low payouts don’t make it literally unplayable, however i did personally stop playing after the patch. So depending on who you ask, the game is indeed unplayable in a way.
- 1,251
- Australia
if people are actually acting as if the game is broken, let them? They do have reason to want a better game. We all want a better game, of course this is going to upset the people who firmly believe the game is "fine"
Also why is it your concern if the review bombing is over the top? You don't have to look at it if you enjoy playing the game that much. It's not like you're not gonna rewatch your favourite movie because of a bunch of people that didn't like it....
Also why is it your concern if the review bombing is over the top? You don't have to look at it if you enjoy playing the game that much. It's not like you're not gonna rewatch your favourite movie because of a bunch of people that didn't like it....
- 4,897
- UK
Again, is this somewhat lost in translation for you. No one suggesting the game is unplayable but funny enough, Isn't there a term called 'killing two birds with one stone'? For this one. Game was unplayable for 36 hours while enforcing credit slashing. And then no one was compensated for this downtime with lack of communication to what was happening during the downtime and to put the cherry on top by adding 2 of the most expensive cars only a few days prior. The review bombing maybe have stemmed from that than the actual game mechanics as such.
- 864
- Wichita, KS
- Greenlightning
Flat wrong on that. PC1 and PC2 are very playable with game pad. Just have to find the right settings for you and make the in game adjustements. With that said for me not anywhere close to same as a wheel. There are players though with game pad with very fast lap records.PC2 is balls to the wall racing. BUT almost impossibru without a wheel. Assetto is even more unforgiving.
And yes, Bathhurst is an amazing track!
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With all due respect you don't get to decide what is over the top. If people feel that aggrieved about the game, that's their feelings. We all have our own feelings. You have yours, I have mine.
I've been here for every game since GT5. There has always been complaints and issues people have with every game, usually a wide variety. I have never seen such a strong backlash as the one right now. I've never seen Kaz feel the need to attempt to write an explanation for it. It's unprecedented and it's all centered on one core issue for the most part, Economy/MTs. That to me says that the issue really is that bad, even if the game is technically still playable.
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SestoScudo
(Banned)
- 3,000
- Australia
- Decepticon 47
I used to grind the f out of gran turismo 2 to buy everything and experiment with different cars.
That red rock valley where you win the tvr cerbera speed 12 was the best yes it made it easy. But before you get there were other events to do.
That red rock valley where you win the tvr cerbera speed 12 was the best yes it made it easy. But before you get there were other events to do.
- 963
- United Kingdom
Metacritic is the only metric that developers and publishers tend to react to or care about, a lot of publishers actually make decisions on sequels and the future of studios based that metric (which is problematic in itself) and there have been multiple studios closed by their publisher due to metacritic targets not being hit (Square-Enix was notorious for this).
So it's the only real effective form of protest that fans have, if the outrage was strictly confined within social media then they wouldn't not even bother with the statement. Polyphony and Sony don't care about reading their social media engagements, they simply care about getting those engagements so they've got another figure they can use as a KPI across 3-6 slides in their end of year presentation.
Don't be surprised if this get's twisted into boasting about the total usage of the hashtag "#GranTurismo7" irrespective of the context of those hashtags on a slide similar to this one which can be found on a simple google image search for "Formula E Social Media Stats":
- 3,058
- Massachusetts
- GBO-Possum
Given that I’m stuck with the misguided* purchase I made, I’m now trying to reset my expectations in order to improve my happiness.
Sure, Sony placed “car collection” as the central theme of GT7, and according to them, it even defines the player “Level”. Good for them.
Here’s my new outlook. I’m now prepared to forgo that expectation, and simply enjoy the driving. Forget the earnings, forget buying many new cars. The new tracks are great. I have “enough” cars to have fun now I’ve finished the Café. The weather and time of day effects are terrific. The new Scapes are lovely. The photographer mode, while still seriously flawed from a workflow perspective, is fun. I have many saved replays in which I can find good photo moments.
I’ve given up hoping that the roulette might be “fair”. It’s probably going to cheat us forever. The house always wins, especially when they cheat. Sucks to be us, but now that I’ve accepted that they cheat, I expect to only win 5,000 credits.
Along the way, the paltry payouts will accumulate, and I’ll be able to buy better tires etc and upgrade my favorite cars. I may even have enough credits to buy the occasional “new” car from the Used Car shop. I’m happy to ignore the unaffordable cars. I live that way IRL after all. Maybe once a month I’ll get lucky enough to snag a roulette car, and not just the usual 5k, and if that happens, I’ll be happy.
I can get my “car collection fix” by spending 20 minutes a day on GT Sport. I can even combine that with getting my “PSVR fix” at the same time. That’s a great combination. If the GTS daily roulette drops a real beauty of a car, I can take it for a spin in VR mode, inspect the interior in glorious 3D, and have a great time doing so.
Today, I did that single lap Porsche event at the Nordschliefe. Twice. First time, the race started in gloomy weather and by 3 minutes in, it was p***ing down on me, and the Sport tires were struggling for grip. The rest of the race was through varying clear patches and downpours. The second run started in brilliant sunshine, scarcely a cloud in the sky, and it remained that way until the last 2 or 3 minutes when rain arrived. Both runs were great fun indeed. Not very lucrative, but fun.
——————
* above I referred to my “misguided purchase”. It was genuinely “misguided”, misguided by the con-job that Sony did on the reviewers by hiding the micro transactions and the true structure of the game economy, and misguided by the reviewers who failed us by not even trying to play the game with their PlayStation disconnected from the internet. If they had, they would have realized that single player is dead in the water and told us so.
Sure, Sony placed “car collection” as the central theme of GT7, and according to them, it even defines the player “Level”. Good for them.
Here’s my new outlook. I’m now prepared to forgo that expectation, and simply enjoy the driving. Forget the earnings, forget buying many new cars. The new tracks are great. I have “enough” cars to have fun now I’ve finished the Café. The weather and time of day effects are terrific. The new Scapes are lovely. The photographer mode, while still seriously flawed from a workflow perspective, is fun. I have many saved replays in which I can find good photo moments.
I’ve given up hoping that the roulette might be “fair”. It’s probably going to cheat us forever. The house always wins, especially when they cheat. Sucks to be us, but now that I’ve accepted that they cheat, I expect to only win 5,000 credits.
Along the way, the paltry payouts will accumulate, and I’ll be able to buy better tires etc and upgrade my favorite cars. I may even have enough credits to buy the occasional “new” car from the Used Car shop. I’m happy to ignore the unaffordable cars. I live that way IRL after all. Maybe once a month I’ll get lucky enough to snag a roulette car, and not just the usual 5k, and if that happens, I’ll be happy.
I can get my “car collection fix” by spending 20 minutes a day on GT Sport. I can even combine that with getting my “PSVR fix” at the same time. That’s a great combination. If the GTS daily roulette drops a real beauty of a car, I can take it for a spin in VR mode, inspect the interior in glorious 3D, and have a great time doing so.
Today, I did that single lap Porsche event at the Nordschliefe. Twice. First time, the race started in gloomy weather and by 3 minutes in, it was p***ing down on me, and the Sport tires were struggling for grip. The rest of the race was through varying clear patches and downpours. The second run started in brilliant sunshine, scarcely a cloud in the sky, and it remained that way until the last 2 or 3 minutes when rain arrived. Both runs were great fun indeed. Not very lucrative, but fun.
——————
* above I referred to my “misguided purchase”. It was genuinely “misguided”, misguided by the con-job that Sony did on the reviewers by hiding the micro transactions and the true structure of the game economy, and misguided by the reviewers who failed us by not even trying to play the game with their PlayStation disconnected from the internet. If they had, they would have realized that single player is dead in the water and told us so.
- 864
- Wichita, KS
- Greenlightning
For those that do not have a problem with extensive grinding. I would find it hard to believe that you would not prefere to enjoy the game in different more enteraining ways if they would be provided. What was/is total game time needed to purchase say all the 1 million plus cars in GTS? The answer for me is far to damn many hours by a long shot. Grinding within reasons of a normal person is acceptable. With GT6 there were some events that i would use a variety of cars and keep stepping down the power of the car to see if can still win. The whole structure of the offline races with A.I is absolute trash, that they still use chase the rabit mentality because they are unable to make decent A.I.
At the core of the game it has not evolved that much from GT1/2.
At the core of the game it has not evolved that much from GT1/2.
- 669
- Italy, Sardinia
I really don't understand people defending this, the "real driving simulator" became a real life simulator: i see a lot of cool cars that i will never own, they expect me (i refuse to grind like a zombie) to repeat the same annoying thing over and over to save some money like a terrible job, i spend 70 euro for a disappointing product and i even have to stfu and say "oh thanks yamauchi sama, i will blindly follow your vision (?), the terrible game design and broken ingame economy, it's clearly your way to push me to the right way to enjoy games".
How can you be ok with this?
We are customers, and this isn't a cult.
I play since GT2, I love this series, and i remember we had grinding in the past, but this IS worst, and the microtransaction are clearly a big part of this. We have to look at facts if we want things to change.
The game isn't LITERALY unplayable, but if i buy a couple jdm, (not even speaking about 1 mil+ things)mod them and i'm out of money, and the only ways to get some credits are slow and not fun, at the moment it's not a game i want to play.
How can you be ok with this?
We are customers, and this isn't a cult.
I play since GT2, I love this series, and i remember we had grinding in the past, but this IS worst, and the microtransaction are clearly a big part of this. We have to look at facts if we want things to change.
The game isn't LITERALY unplayable, but if i buy a couple jdm, (not even speaking about 1 mil+ things)mod them and i'm out of money, and the only ways to get some credits are slow and not fun, at the moment it's not a game i want to play.
- 13,909
- Adelaide
- Neomone
I think part of the problem is that at endgame GT7 is functionally worse than something like AC.
At endgame in both you're going to be making your own fun and driving what you feel like. But GT7 locks all the cars behind a credit grind, making it hard to set up races exactly how you want. AC just gives you the cars and lets you have fun.
In the past the tradeoff would have been that Gran Turismo had a massive single player component, and the restricted car ownership would have been in service of that mode of gameplay. That's just not there in GT7, it dies of crib death after the menus and a handful of random events.
The way GT7 allows you to play at endgame, games like AC and PC2 do better. They allow you the freedom to make your own fun in a way that GT7 doesn't, since none of the games offer that much in the way of an endgame single player experience.
Unless you want someone to take all your toys away and make you work to get them back, then GT7 is for you. Some people are into that, but most wouldn't call it fun. I buy racing games to race the cars, not to drive a car I don't like to maybe one day earn access to a car I do.
For the people who will misrepresent this argument, I don't think GT7 should unlock all the cars (well, they should have a fully unlocked arcade mode but that's another thing). I think they should have a decent amount of single player content with a reasonably balanced economy because that's why GT does best. I just think that in failing to do so they've driven players into a mode of play that more resembles the "traditional" sims where everything is unlocked, but does it worse.
At endgame in both you're going to be making your own fun and driving what you feel like. But GT7 locks all the cars behind a credit grind, making it hard to set up races exactly how you want. AC just gives you the cars and lets you have fun.
In the past the tradeoff would have been that Gran Turismo had a massive single player component, and the restricted car ownership would have been in service of that mode of gameplay. That's just not there in GT7, it dies of crib death after the menus and a handful of random events.
The way GT7 allows you to play at endgame, games like AC and PC2 do better. They allow you the freedom to make your own fun in a way that GT7 doesn't, since none of the games offer that much in the way of an endgame single player experience.
Unless you want someone to take all your toys away and make you work to get them back, then GT7 is for you. Some people are into that, but most wouldn't call it fun. I buy racing games to race the cars, not to drive a car I don't like to maybe one day earn access to a car I do.
For the people who will misrepresent this argument, I don't think GT7 should unlock all the cars (well, they should have a fully unlocked arcade mode but that's another thing). I think they should have a decent amount of single player content with a reasonably balanced economy because that's why GT does best. I just think that in failing to do so they've driven players into a mode of play that more resembles the "traditional" sims where everything is unlocked, but does it worse.
- 179
- Scotland
- Bush_Killa-73
Quite right too. I was buzzing and excited to be picking this up as my next game but since all this has came out I've decided to wait until it's around half of its full price. If they do a U-turn then I'll happily pay more. I'd imagine there's plenty out there on the same boat.
It just stinks that they moved the goalposts and showed their true intentions after reviews were safely out. This kind of skulldugery needs to become a thing of the past
I personally thought his excuses for having to pay real money for fantasy cars in a full price AAA game were absolutely pathetic.
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