Kazunori Yamauchi Responds to Gran Turismo 7 Fan Outrage

[Famine]

please don't make me trawl this absolute rubbish fire of a thread for the examples of people throwing their toys out of the pram over unreasonable things like not every car being straight in the dealerships or not having the money for the most expensive cars in week 3

The problem is that the quotes you've used don't support this point that you've made. I actually can't think of any posts where people have even complained about "not every car being straight in the dealership" (the quoted post of @brocp is close, but doesn't mention dealerships) or "not having the money for the most expensive cars in week 3", much less thrown "their toys out of the pram".

Because that's not really the point. The point is that the choices you have to get even one of the more expensive cars (and not even the most; we've not seen that yet) is to buy $120 of microtransactions or to grind a single, low-paying event for ten hours...

... and then PD said they don't want people to do either of those things but cut the payouts further so it's now a 14-hour grind.


The closest you'll find to someone complaining about not having stuff right now is quoting me saying that all the cars (and tracks, though I don't know if I said that or not) should be available to drive in an inconsequential Arcade Mode. I think @brocp's post is about the same sort of thing - you can in ACC and F1 just pick one of the cars in the game and have a race at one of the tracks in the game in... an inconsequential arcade mode.

 

[MaxAttack]

No, you found 1 post backing up your point and a load more that don't and that's "evidence".

As for the proof PD and Sony.are pushing MTX's, the proof is in the game, every time you click on a car to buy it. The timed invitations, timed legendary cars and timed cars in the UCD that all promote buying credits when you click on them. There are seminars on maximising MTX profits that clearly outline a number of these practices and more. This is a properly thought out and deliberate implementation.

Or do you deny that what we can see and interact with in front of us is evidence?

That isn't proof. That's a feeling you're getting, informed by how you already feel about microtransactions.

It's not invalid, but it's subjective. It's an opinion. There's no evidence at all the developers intended this game to be a microtransaction spinner, whether in official media, interviews, or anything internal that's emerged from Sony.

So don't call my evidence ropey and then hand me anecdotes.

I'm done here, chaps, I initially came to kick up a fuss because I think reviewbombing is childish footstomping, briefly became engaged in a fairly interesting conversation on different people's reasoning, heard some interesting points of view, but I am clearly now the avatar of Kaz and PD and only poison can come out of my mouth.

Good day to you all. Enjoy GT7; whatever form that takes for you.

 

[Scaff]

Gentlemen if that and @afc5150 's kind contribution aren't enough to, if not prove I'm not talking out of my butt, prove that the evidence certainly exists if I could really be bothered to comb thru all 50+ pages of the thread, I'm not sure what else I can do for you.

I Iiterally typed in pg31 and went forward grabbing anything even remotely close to my point and stopped 2 pages later. It really did not require much effort - the point being you could put that effort in to see if what I'm saying is there as much as you could demand that I have to. I didn't fabricate it from thin air and I'd appreciate the general respect for my intelligence in that regard - I should be able to comment on general themes that have clearly run thru the thread without being asked to dredge up examples in such a lengthy discussion.

What you could do for me is really quite simple.

If you make a claim that a certain view is prevalent, then make sure it actually is, and that you can support the claim before making it. What I don't expect of a member of your standing is to cherry-pick comments that you think can be vaguely interpreted to match your claim, and when it's pointed out that they don't, try and shift the burden of proof.

It's not my job, or any other members job to make your case for you.

You'll note I haven't refused to digest anything any of you have typed based on the fact you can provide absolutely zero evidence of this supposed scheme by Sony and PD to gut the GT franchise in favour of an MTX spinner - and unlike what I said I really don't see the evidence lying out in the open for that.

I think you know that aside from hyperbolic outliers, no-one would claim to have definitive proof of that.

What we do however have is a significant amount of evidence of a game economy and structural design that looks a lot like one designed to push microtransactions. I understand that you don't agree, but a lot of people do see that, both here and in the wider gaming and non-gaming media.

So am I doing it wrong? Should I stop deigning to respond to those whose only reaction to my indictment of their reviewbombing, stung by my suggestion they're being childish, if they aren't prepared to hack Kaz's emails and find me direct evidence of this nefarious conspiracy?

Who here do you know that has specifically review-bombed? I may of missed it, but I've not personally come across anyone who has claimed to have done it, and even if they had, insulting them is not a way to engage in debate and discussion about it with them.

No, I'm affording all your intellects a little respect rather than nitpicking at every little thing, so we can discuss where we stand on the issue without pausing every post to search a fifty page thread for a "Gotcha!" of a quote. I might appreciate that returned.

I have to be honest, it's a little disingenuous to say that when you just attempted to engineer a 'gotcha'.

The closest you'll find to someone complaining about not having stuff right now is quoting me saying that all the cars should be available to drive in an inconsequential Arcade Mode.

In all fairness, I've called for exactly the same thing, because it makes sense.

examples of people throwing their toys out of the pram

Ok...

I'm done here, chaps, I initially came to kick up a fuss because I think reviewbombing is childish footstomping, briefly became engaged in a fairly interesting conversation on different people's reasoning, heard some interesting points of view, but I am clearly now the avatar of Kaz and PD and only poison can come out of my mouth.

Good day to you all. Enjoy GT7; whatever form that takes for you.

...ummm.

 

[MaxAttack]

you just attempted to engineer a 'gotcha'.

Not how I see it at all. I made a point about things said in the thread without quoting, then someone called my non-existant bluff, so I went and found some. I've already explained why I didn't bother making sure it was a 100% diamond edged perfect blastback, that was never my point.

Of course @Famine is right to say it's not the job of the person calling my bluff to do my research, but it's also rather my point in the first place that rigourously researching something plainly obvious would be boring and unnecessary. I don't care that much.

Just this to not leave you hanging - I am leaving the thread now

 

[Scaff]

Not how I see it at all. I made a point about things said in the thread without quoting, then someone called my non-existant bluff, so I went and found some. I've already explained why I didn't bother making sure it was a 100% diamond edged perfect blastback, that was never my point.

I didn't say it was a successfully one, but it certainly came across as an attempt at one, intended or otherwise.

Of course @Famine is right to say it's not the job of the person calling my bluff to do my research, but it's also rather my point in the first place that rigourously researching something plainly obvious would be boring and unnecessary. I don't care that much.

Indeed.

Just this to not leave you hanging - I am leaving the thread now

As is your choice

 

[Dave A]

That isn't proof. That's a feeling you're getting, informed by how you already feel about microtransactions.

It's not invalid, but it's subjective. It's an opinion. There's no evidence at all the developers intended this game to be a microtransaction spinner, whether in official media, interviews, or anything internal that's emerged from Sony.

So don't call my evidence ropey and then hand me anecdotes.

I'm done here, chaps, I initially came to kick up a fuss because I think reviewbombing is childish footstomping, briefly became engaged in a fairly interesting conversation on different people's reasoning, heard some interesting points of view, but I am clearly now the avatar of Kaz and PD and only poison can come out of my mouth.

Good day to you all. Enjoy GT7; whatever form that takes for you.

What you can see and interact with is most certainly able to be used to prove a point. Combine that with Jim Ryan talking up GAAS recently and it's a clear tactic, Jim Ryans comments (which have already been provided) are further proof towards that view. Arguing what you see and experience isn't evidence is asinine, I think you'll find a lot of court cases depend on such.

 

[Silver Arrows]

It's not invalid, but it's subjective. It's an opinion. There's no evidence at all the developers intended this game to be a microtransaction spinner, whether in official media, interviews, or anything internal that's emerged from Sony.

Almost like Sony and PD know what they are doing with micro-transactions isn't popular, and actively hid it until Day 1 for the general audience to spring it onto everyone. This isn't the solid point you think it is.

 

[Yard_Sale]

Honestly, you don't want to go down this route. Real life racing doesn't pay nearly as much as you'd think at all levels, with most of the money coming from endorsement and TV deals rather than straight race payout.

IIRC a 2hr40min IMSA race paid ~US$35,000 for a win, for example.

Beat me to it. If we want the IG economy to actually reflect what real life racing payouts are like, this games economy isn’t even close to broken yet

 

[breeminator]

The closest you'll find to someone complaining about not having stuff right now is quoting me saying that all the cars (and tracks, though I don't know if I said that or not) should be available to drive in an inconsequential Arcade Mode.

I've said, and still believe, that all cars and upgrades should be available to all players for sport mode practice, qualifying and racing. I can't take the game seriously as an e-sport in its current state. As a long term single player car collecting game where it takes time to even upgrade a cheap car, it's fine, you don't NEED the cars for anything anyway, so there's no problem if that process will take years. But an e-sport should always make all equipment that affects performance available to all players from the start.

 

[Dave A]

Beat me to it. If we want the IG economy to actually reflect what real life racing payouts are like, this games economy isn’t even close to broken yet

Although in the real world, what do you do with a car you don't want?

Regarding prize money, the game is maybe too generous in the first few races, but the end game elite races are far too stingy. Add to that you can't sell any cars and you have inbalance.

 

[Famine]

I've said, and still believe, that all cars and upgrades should be available to all players for sport mode practice, qualifying and racing.

I don't think I'd disagree with that. It's an entirely reasonable concept that if you're running multiplayer competitive races, you want as many potential players in the lobby as possible - and pricing people out of it is weird.

Of course you'd need the ability for players who have acquired the cars to use those (and their liveries and preferred setups) too, but yes.

 

[GBO Possum]

The “Metaslide” continues in the absence of positive action.

If it were up to me, I’d be at least issuing some calming words, if not revising the parameters of the economy.
I get it that allowing cars to be sold (for example), takes design, coding and testing time. But simply repricing cars, upgrades and revising event rewards can be quicker. As a first step, anyway.

 

[Yard_Sale]

Although in the real world, what do you do with a car you don't want?

Regarding prize money, the game is maybe too generous in the first few races, but the end game elite races are far too stingy. Add to that you can't sell any cars and you have inbalance.

Who’s giving you cars for free in real life? Give them my number!! 😂

 

[MockngBrd]

The “Metaslide” continues in the absence of positive action.

If it were up to me, I’d be at least issuing some calming words, if not revising the parameters of the economy.
I get it that allowing cars to be sold (for example), takes design, coding and testing time. But simply repricing cars, upgrades and revising event rewards can be quicker. As a first step, anyway.

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Almost as good as pool party! I guess if this continues, it'll be in the sub 1s by the end of next week.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Who’s giving you cars for free in real life? Give them my number!! 😂

Well, for the cars that matter to this thread, they don't depreciate like a normal car does. They increase, so although they aren't "free" to purchase, they are money makers. But, I digress.


Ok, Here's a fix that PD can make, while at the same time not admitting that they were wrong (psst, they are).

Add "Hagerty" events. You'll need a Hagerty offered car to compete, and make the payouts more generous. For instance, have a McLaren F1 cup and have it pay out 1mil credits for a win.

I also still hold to the idea of making a multiplayer version of some events so the grinding is not so horrible. I would do a 30 minute endurance if it weren't against the AI.


I mean, they'll probably just nerf Fisherman's Ranch and double down on their horrendous choice, but that will be an absolute death blow to this Franchise (IMHO)

 

[Dave A]

Who’s giving you cars for free in real life? Give them my number!! 😂

That's the thing, the whole economy is founded in fiction. To start choosing to reflect real world pricing for only certain more exclusive and expensive cars when the rest of the game doesn't follow reality in it's economy is unbalanced. It's a nice tag line to say the prices of certain cars reflect the real world, but when nothing else in the games economy does it's a bit meaningless.

 

[ND4SPD]

Why did you make me do this? I picked a random page number in the thread...














Solid evidenced arguments are the gold standard and all, but perhaps not everyone who can't quite be bothered to do a trawl like the one I just did shouldn't be taken at their word.

I like how I have to painstakingly back up everything I say whilst others in this thread are free to speculate wildly about how Sony and Kaz plotted and schemed to get their hands on mum's credit card.

Sorry to all quoted for the random ping, my hand was forced.

I think you missed the point of my post here. I'm not complaining that I can't afford the Mclaren F1 3 weeks in. I'm literally poking fun of how much of a slap in the face the whole situation was to the games fanbase. I think you missed the bigger picture of the game being completely unplayable for 30+ hours and then having a half assed apology letter from Kaz citing how he's wanting players to stop grinding the same races to earn credits while lowering the credit payouts of those same races and then simultaneously releasing the two most expensive cars in game so far. Even Helen Keller herself could have seen how well that was going to go over with people. 🙄

 

[Phaceless_Ph]

The gymnastics from those defending the MTX-economy is astounding. Points for dedication and digging in your heels I guess.

 

[Johnnn]

The gymnastics from those defending the MTX-economy is astounding. Points for dedication and digging in your heels I guess.

I love the part when you need to pay again for something your already paid. It's completely crazy.

 

[kungtotte_]

I love the part when you need to pay again for something your already paid. It's completely crazy.

I don't think you know what the word "need" means.

 

[Johnnn]

I don't think you know what the word "need" means.

My game, my cars. If anybody starts with earning them or paying for them, he's very wrong. Don't let that non-sense spread the world!

Many people here wrote already getting all cars in career is OK to them. But GT7 doesn't have any and you can't play with your already paid content.

 

[tankuroded]

The “Metaslide” continues in the absence of positive action.

If it were up to me, I’d be at least issuing some calming words, if not revising the parameters of the economy.
I get it that allowing cars to be sold (for example), takes design, coding and testing time. But simply repricing cars, upgrades and revising event rewards can be quicker. As a first step, anyway.

View attachment 1128326

The one-impression rule seems to convince me that people would think it was too late for them to do that to the point I am convinced the only accepted apology at this point would be opening refunds worth double the purchase price and then shut down themselves.

 

[regnar]

It's not hard to imagine the payouts being reduced again, if Kaz logic, how to reduce the mechanical grinding, was to reduce the payouts on those events that people where using to grind, they may take another look at things again and see people using other tracks to grind and reduce the payout on those events.

Seasonal events where very generous on payouts in past games, but may fall inline with the low payouts where seeing with current game.

Kaz statement just not given us a clear enough picture with what direction the games economy will be like.

 

[Phaceless_Ph]

Odds on Sony being tone-deaf enough to try manipulate the metacritic score via paid clickfarms?

@regnar his idea of a complete car list in Gran Turismo 5 was lazily importing cars from a PSP game.

 

[anthonyfa18]

Polyphony better be working on a good update for us because the games reputation is totally been destroyed it is now sitting at an all time low of 1.5 On users score on Metacritic.

It’s so sad the game does so much right but it’s completely falling apart, And I would like to add that the silence we are getting from both parties which include Sony and polyphony digital is just total discussed once again our community is left in the dark

 

[Lomic]

It's not hard to imagine the payouts being reduced again, if Kaz logic, how to reduce the mechanical grinding, was to reduce the payouts on those events that people where using to grind, they may take another look at things again and see people using other tracks to grind and reduce the payout on those events.

In fact people continue to grind FR but it is much slower. They should nerf it to 5k Cr per win

 

[MaxAttack]

...ummm.

You're a classy cat, aren't you? Just leave it alone. I didn't have to do you the courtesy of telling you why I'm not bothering anymore.

 

[dabz343]

 

[MaxAttack]

View attachment 1128372
View attachment 1128374

My heart did flutter on being called a member of standing which is definitely a threshold I don't think I've crossed.

£1 premium donation paying dividends for me.

I'm not stupid because my opinion runs counter to popular opinion.

I'm stupid for ever thinking there would be any value in discussing it.

You live and learn. Cute meme. @ people when you're talking dirt about them, it's a nice courtesy.

Mangusta in legends, by the way, if people want something very rad and very attainable. It can actually slide rather than spinning. How about that?

 

[Force-Feedback]

So still nothing from PD or Kaz since that.... ahem.... "speech"?