Make all cars available from the start?

[niky]

And what about the people who have been playing the GT series for the nearly fourteen years it existed and was perfectly fine without any online multiplayer options whatsoever, before GT5 came out?

Like... us?

Should the game structure these players have come to know through the years be compromised because a few impatient, bratty kids are too lazy and have no concept of hard work and accomplishment to earn their way through a game?

Define earn. Are we teaching them that you can either grind dozens of hours or cheat or pay non-virtual money in order to afford a unicorn to trot out in front of everyone else in an online room? Are we teaching them that status symbols are the only things that matter in a capitalistic society? (as for game completion... who says anything about letting them win the game? We're just talking about cars)

I think a posted above summed up pretty well that in the GT series, progression and single-player have always been the prime focus of the game.
I'm not saying the inclusion of online multiplayer is bad, but it should never come at the cost of truncating the features we all enjoyed and were perfectly fine with all through games 1-4. There's a reason the single-player career has always been referred to as simulation mode right up until about now.

Air simulators don't force you to grind tens of thousands of hours in order to afford your own plane. Simulation means a realistic driving experience. Not SimLife... some people might be okay with "Sims: The Drive", but some of us just want to race.

Overall I probably wouldn't mind online and single-player being kept as far away from each other as possible that much but I'd still prefer if the online experience were more reflective of how much of the simulation mode the players have completed.

Trophies. Medals and trophies. Custom race suits and race livery. Chromeline, Silver, Gold livery. Unique exterior modifications. "Stealth" Cars. There are a million ways to do this.

Doesn't matter how nice a car you have, or how many medals you have from single player. There will always be someone better than you out there. I'd rather go into a room with no braggadocio and do reasonably well, than to have a dozen titles after my name and a unique car and still get trounced.

Well gee, the best course for a game series is obviously by trashing progression and gamer appeal.

Who's trashing it? GT has hardly ever gotten progression right. In GT3, finishing racing series was exciting, because you got pick-a-color prize cars after every grueling series. Want a car? Find out what series it's a prize in and stick it out.

By GT4, the grind had set in. Spamming "Like the Wind" like crazy was the only way to afford some cars within a reasonable time frame. There was no way to afford all the cars by finishing the game. The "collector mode" and "career mode" had finally completely become unstuck from each other.

I was sharing my memory card with other players who didn't have the time to play as much as I did. Just to help them out.

For some people... gaming is not life. It's simply part of it. It's not something you understand until you step back from the game to look at the bigger picture.

Does GT absolutely need non-gamers at the moment? No.

But consider that there are people whose only game is Gran Turismo, and whose only gaming purchases are GT, a Playstation and a wheel. (I have a lot of friends like this) These people are non-gamers. They only have Gran Turismo because they're racers.

Do they give a rat's behind about career mode? Nope. They're simply there to race. And if GT wants to keep getting those conquest sales who don't care about more "gamer-friendly" games like DriveClub or Forza, then they should ensure that they have the opportunity to race.[/COLOR][/B]

 

[Northstar]

are too lazy and have no concept of hard work and accomplishment to earn their way through a game?

Or, they merely work hard in the real world and would rather not have to grind a race for the thousandth time just to buy a car that may not even be that great. I'm not sure what your life is like, but I know in mine I only have a few hours a week where I can set my wheel up for a proper session and I'd like to be doing something enjoyable instead of repeating races.

I see nothing wrong with having a setup similar to Forza's where all cars are available from the start in Arcade mode, but you have to buy them in order to tune them or use them in Career mode. It would definitely make both online and things like WRS easier to do early on in the games life.

 

[Castrol96]

One thing I miss is having to unlock certain vehicles as prizes. You might not agree but it kinda feels too easy to have any car in GT6, although we had a UCD in GT5, but that was somewhere to hide standard cars. Something PD have stopped for almost a decade.

In GT4

Drumrolls and Multiple/random selection (GT3)



One of the common features I miss were the Drum rolls, it actually felt exciting to see what you've won, though the multiple selection was based on luck and option to choose the vehicle you wanted but at times after winning a endurance race it became frustrating knowing you won something you didn't expect.

 

[FerrariF1GT]

Because GT7 will have over a thousand cars, definitely not.

 

[05XR8]

Another reason cars should be available. Even for people who have their own GT Awards cars in the game, they cant drive them without winning Cr. I mean, Mary Pozzi. Her grandson(daughter, if she has any) gets her the game(even if she was given a free copy of GT6) or the grandchild is given the game. He/she may just want to drive the Pozzi Camaro. Well, if he/she goes to Arcade Single Race, its not even a courtesy car. So he'd have to pretty much spend a few hours to win enough Cr to buy it.

This pretty much falls with the structure of GT. There are those, in the minority, like me who just want one car to use from start to finish. At the start, everyone(I bought the 15th Anniv. Edition) had to buy the Fit @350pp. There are "83 Car(s)" in that Car Search by PP and 20, 000Cr(187 with no price limit). I should be able to, by now in this series, pick the Midget II D type '98 or RB X2014 Standard and GT_ generates the career accordingly.

If anything, it should be optional to start in both Arcade Mode and Career Mode to win Cr.

 

[TayeezSA]

And thus begins the possibility of GT being casualized.

 

[FS7]

And thus begins the possibility of GT being casualized.

GT is already casualized.
One can use driving aids including unrealistic ones such as driving line & SRF (SRF is forced on in license tests and some seasonals), one can use overpowered cars in most career events, there's no mechanical damage offline, most offline events have no penalties for crashing and/or corner cutting, events outside of S-class have no fuel/tire wear.

If all of that is OK to make the game more casual and accessible then it should be OK to have all cars available from the start in arcade mode & online one-make races.

 

[TayeezSA]

GT is already casualized.
One can use driving aids including unrealistic ones such as driving line & SRF (SRF is forced on in license tests and some seasonals), one can use overpowered cars in most career events, there's no mechanical damage offline, most offline events have no penalties for crashing and/or corner cutting, events outside of S-class have no fuel/tire wear.

If all of that is OK to make the game more casual and accessible then it should be OK to have all cars available from the start in arcade mode & online one-make races.

Really?

The difference between a casual game and hardcore game : They are typically distinguished by their simple rules and lack of commitment required in contrast to more complex hardcore games. (Are Casual games the future?)

Example of a casual game, Driveclub. Simple, lacks complexity and the same commitment that GT has. It sticks out as a casual game.

GT is far from a casual game but it does have some elements that cater to the casual crowd, but doesn't every other racer have such? GT has complexity and commitment to it and you know that it does. While there's no mechanical damage offline, penalties etc, there are some penalties plus lest we not forget the physics and other elements that make it more hardcore?

Let's also look at the extent of 'realism'. Some other games push the boundaries such as Project CARS and Assetto Corsa, while GT isn't to the extent of the other games yet, it isn't right to call it casual and it shouldn't be casualized anymore than it should be. I promise you now that even when these full versions of the other games come out they will have some of those 'unrealisitic driving aids' such as SRF and Driving Lines.

 

[FS7]

The difference between a casual game and hardcore game : They are typically distinguished by their simple rules and lack of commitment required in contrast to more complex hardcore games. (Are Casual games the future?)

GT is far from a casual game but it does have some elements that cater to the casual crowd, but doesn't every other racer have such? GT has complexity and commitment to it and you know that it does. While there's no mechanical damage offline, penalties etc, there are some penalties plus lest we not forget the physics and other elements that make it more hardcore?

Let's also look at the extent of 'realism'. Some other games push the boundaries such as Project CARS and Assetto Corsa, while GT isn't to the extent of the other games yet, it isn't right to call it casual and it shouldn't be casualized anymore than it should be. I promise you now that even when these full versions of the other games come out they will have some of those 'unrealisitic driving aids' such as SRF and Driving Lines.

I'm not against casual elements, I just don't understand this narrow-minded mentality of "it's ok to have this casual feature but it's not ok to have this other casual feature."

Although I play with aids off and I enjoy realistic races I think is totally fine to have aids and options to make the game more accessible to casual players.
The thing is: if it's ok to have driving aids & disabling sim options to make the game more accessible to casual players why is it so bad to have alternate ways to play the game? It's ok for me to have access to the HSV GT500 & GT-R GT3 from the start in arcade mode but it's not ok to have access to other GT500's & GT3's in arcade mode? It's ok for me to have 25 anniversary cars from the start in my career garage but its not ok for me to have access to the stock versions of those cars in arcade mode? It's ok for me to crash & corner cut my way to victory using an overpowered car against bad AI in career mode but it's not ok for me to test drive any car I want in arcade mode? That doesn't make any sense at all.

If it's ok to have options that make the game more enjoyable to casual players then it should be ok to have options that make the game more enjoyable for people who don't care about grinding & car collecting and want to focus on racing. That's why I like the idea of having all cars available from the start in arcade mode and online, it will make the game more enjoyable for people who want to focus on racing and won't have any effect at all on people who want to grind and collect cars.
It didn't take commitment for me to acquire the cars I want in GT6, it simply took me a good number of hours grinding boring races against crap AI.

 

[05XR8]

Sony and PD got my money from GT1-GT6. I had chipped PS1 and US version PS1, Japanese import PS2, US PS2 AND chipped PS2, Japanese GT1/GT2 AND GT3 before US debuts and US Versions before public release dates, GT Concept AND back in 2008 I bought another slim PS2 to play GT4, PLUS GTPSP. Oh, im committed. Trust.

 

[MarchingSaint]

No, i want to shed blood sweat and tears for every car in the game.

 

[niky]

it shouldn't be casualized any more than it should be.

Who determines how "casualized" GT7 "should" be?

With drift mode, photo-mode, paint-mode, replay-mode with its multiple cameras, the museums, suit collections, photo-travel, arcade events, extensive online events and free online racing and etcetera, Gran Turismo is already pretty casual.

And yet... none of this has anything to do with Gran Turismo's career mode. At all.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Really?

The difference between a casual game and hardcore game : They are typically distinguished by their simple rules and lack of commitment required in contrast to more complex hardcore games. (Are Casual games the future?)

Example of a casual game, Driveclub. Simple, lacks complexity and the same commitment that GT has. It sticks out as a casual game.

GT is far from a casual game but it does have some elements that cater to the casual crowd, but doesn't every other racer have such? GT has complexity and commitment to it and you know that it does. While there's no mechanical damage offline, penalties etc, there are some penalties plus lest we not forget the physics and other elements that make it more hardcore?

Let's also look at the extent of 'realism'. Some other games push the boundaries such as Project CARS and Assetto Corsa, while GT isn't to the extent of the other games yet, it isn't right to call it casual and it shouldn't be casualized anymore than it should be. I promise you now that even when these full versions of the other games come out they will have some of those 'unrealisitic driving aids' such as SRF and Driving Lines.

Lack of commitment? You can't be serious. There's nothing wrong with a game being difficult to master, this is supposed to be a simulation after all, but that's not commitment, that's a steep learning curve required to become a master at a particular gaming skill or game philosophy. GT simply requires a massive time commitment doing unchallenging, mind blowingly boring repetitive events, to acquire all the content that comes on the disk. More importantly, this massive time commitment does not require any additional skill to complete nor is the difficultly level scalable by design, it's a simple time investment into repetitive events. That is far different from a massive time commitment doing things that are challenging and fun for you to become one of the fastest sim pilots in the game/your country/the world or wherever.

Also, by your definition, PCars is a purely casual game. The rules are simple, they are just the common and well known rules of racing we are all familiar with before even picking up the game. And all content is available from the beginning. Your definition fails from the start, sorry. GT on the other hand takes those same racing rules and principles and simplifies them and dumbs them down so that the game is accessible for the very casual user. Corner too hard? Don't worry the tires just glow for a couple of seconds and then instantaneously lose all their built up heat? Want to put fantasy F1 qualifying slicks on your Vitz? No problem. Want to race against cars that slow down and let you win like your Mommy did when she foot raced you when you were 3 years old? No problem.

GT is the most casualized so called "sim" in the history of racing/driving sims. Making all cars available from the start will not change anything about the game one little bit, other than the requirement to grind the same race over and over to get access to the cars you really want to drive. Make the career mode fun, challenging and immersive and only a handful of diehards will care about acquiring cars and the feeling of "ownership". Right now "ownership" is important because the career mode is the worst in GT history and perhaps the worst in all of racing ever. Add in a livery editor and the level of customization that people have been screaming about for a decade or more and that other games have had for many years, and no one will shed a tear about not having to grind to acquire cars ever again.

Better yet, make "all cars from the start" optional while still allowing a traditional career mode through GT7 and everybody wins. It still makes no sense to me why anyone would argue against that.

 

[CBH]

make "all cars from the start" optional

But dear Johnny, only have the cars available in the Arcade Mode only. 👍

 

[MarchingSaint]

Lack of commitment? You can't be serious. There's nothing wrong with a game being difficult to master, this is supposed to be a simulation after all, but that's not commitment, that's a steep learning curve required to become a master at a particular gaming skill or game philosophy. GT simply requires a massive time commitment doing unchallenging, mind blowingly boring repetitive events, to acquire all the content that comes on the disk. More importantly, this massive time commitment does not require any additional skill to complete nor is the difficultly level scalable by design, it's a simple time investment into repetitive events. That is far different from a massive time commitment doing things that are challenging and fun for you to become one of the fastest sim pilots in the game/your country/the world or wherever.

Also, by your definition, PCars is a purely casual game. The rules are simple, they are just the common and well known rules of racing we are all familiar with before even picking up the game. And all content is available from the beginning. Your definition fails from the start, sorry. GT on the other hand takes those same racing rules and principles and simplifies them and dumbs them down so that the game is accessible for the very casual user. Corner too hard? Don't worry the tires just glow for a couple of seconds and then instantaneously lose all their built up heat? Want to put fantasy F1 qualifying slicks on your Vitz? No problem. Want to race against cars that slow down and let you win like your Mommy did when she foot raced you when you were 3 years old? No problem.

GT is the most casualized so called "sim" in the history of racing/driving sims. Making all cars available from the start will not change anything about the game one little bit, other than the requirement to grind the same race over and over to get access to the cars you really want to drive. Make the career mode fun, challenging and immersive and only a handful of diehards will care about acquiring cars and the feeling of "ownership". Right now "ownership" is important because the career mode is the worst in GT history and perhaps the worst in all of racing ever. Add in a livery editor and the level of customization that people have been screaming about for a decade or more and that other games have had for many years, and no one will shed a tear about not having to grind to acquire cars ever again.

Better yet, make "all cars from the start" optional while still allowing a traditional career mode through GT7 and everybody wins. It still makes no sense to me why anyone would argue against that.

I see you point but even if the career mode is not so immersive or good at all, grinding for cars, winning them race after every race was an amazing experience if not one of the strongest point of the GT series; you mentioned a livery editor and a better single player experience, eh why not both?

 

[Johnnypenso]

I see you point but even if the career mode is not so immersive or good at all, grinding for cars, winning them race after every race was an amazing experience if not one of the strongest point of the GT series; you mentioned a livery editor and a better single player experience, eh why not both?

Of course both a livery editor and better single player experience would be better, let's hope it's actually a priority for them. I know some people still like grinding, but IMO it's a dying part of the series. If you look up the GT6 trophies, last I recall less than 20% of players had 100 or more cars, which to me, given how easy the redbull grind is to earn millions of dollars quickly combined with high payout seasonals, tells me very, very few people are actually grinding for cars otherwise a far higher percentage of people would have more than 100 cars. Don't forget also, anyone that took advantage of the Merc VGT or M4 money glitch like me and bought hundreds of cars is also in that 20%. The number of people actually grinding away to build a car collection is probably incredibly low.

 

[Exorcet]

Really?

The difference between a casual game and hardcore game : They are typically distinguished by their simple rules and lack of commitment required in contrast to more complex hardcore games. (Are Casual games the future?)

Ironically some of the most hardcore games avoid GT's credit feature, which is a trademark of more casual/arcade games (and if you wanted to try and classify games with those titles you could start a really long discussion). The really detailed simulators that put commitment and complexity into gameplay instead of side features tend to give you all the content immediately. It's not about accessibility, it's because the gameplay has enough depth to stand alone without silly gimmicks. On the subject of GT, I think the gameplay is actually good enough to stand alone. There's no need for unlocking cars (in fact it can very easily be considered a hindrance for serious racers). What you commit to is developing as a racer, and it's really frustrating when the game itself stands in the way and forces you to do pointless side quests.

Example of a casual game, Driveclub. Simple, lacks complexity and the same commitment that GT has. It sticks out as a casual game.

I don't know anything about Driveclub. But I do know that GT in general will allow to progress even if you lose most races. GT demands commitment in terms of hours sunk into the game, but at the same time it allows you to overpower the AI who will also slow down to let you win just in case having an overpowered car isn't enough.

I wouldn't consider the general concept of credits a feature of a hardcore game, but in GT's case specifically it's not much more than fluff used to artificially extend the game's lifespan. Until GT players are in danger of losing money in GT Mode I'd really hesitate to say that credits add any kind of difficulty or interesting dynamic.

Let's also look at the extent of 'realism'. Some other games push the boundaries such as Project CARS and Assetto Corsa, while GT isn't to the extent of the other games yet, it isn't right to call it casual and it shouldn't be casualized anymore than it should be. I promise you now that even when these full versions of the other games come out they will have some of those 'unrealisitic driving aids' such as SRF and Driving Lines.

Having all the cars open from the beginning is not casualization in the least. If anything it makes the game more attractive to serious racers. Secondly, options being optional means that there is no casualization if the hardcore options remain. GT can have a full on casual mode, but it wouldn't make the game any more casual if the original content remains available.

But dear Johnny, only have the cars available in the Arcade Mode only. 👍

Arcade Mode itself is outdated. GT should drop it in favor of a mode resembling a PC simulator. You have all the cars, tracks, tuning parts and you can combine them however you like along with AI and/or other players. GT Mode is left alone. As has been said many times before, having all cars available does not exclude the possibility of having traditional GT gameplay modes.

 

[FS7]

Arcade Mode itself is outdated. GT should drop it in favor of a mode resembling a PC simulator.

I wouldn't say drop arcade mode, I'd say make it better.

Have all cars/tracks available from the start, have all options available (standing starts, mechanical damage, tire wear, penalties, etc), have the option to choose how many AI cars you want (up to 15 AI opponents) as well as being able to choose cars/tires for each AI opponent, have the option to adjust AI difficulty (pace/aggressiveness) and have either qualifying or the option to choose starting position on the grid.

If arcade mode had all of that there would be a variety of racing scenarios that could be created that would give GT infinite replay value.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I wouldn't say drop arcade mode, I'd say make it better.

Have all cars/tracks available from the start, have all options available (standing starts, mechanical damage, tire wear, penalties, etc), have the option to choose how many AI cars you want (up to 15 AI opponents) as well as being able to choose cars/tires for each AI opponent, have the option to adjust AI difficulty (pace/aggressiveness) and have either qualifying or the option to choose starting position on the grid.

If arcade mode had all of that there would be a variety of racing scenarios that could be created that would give GT infinite replay value.

That sounds like an event/series creator which would be a welcome addition of course. A complete sandbox mode in which you can choose any car, any track, any upgrades, any aids, any level of difficulty with multiple sliders for the AI, and race any opponent in a quick race or full race weekend, for a single or series of events. I'd do away with the "Arcade Mode" tag because I think that's there for one reason and one reason only - so they don't have to pay out prizes and thereby force you to complete the career mode to grind for cash. I think the Event Creator section should have prizes equal to the Career Mode in terms of length of race/series, with bonuses for added difficulty, strength of field, racing clean etc. While I'm at it, I think all events, everywhere in the game, other than Time Trials, should be repeatable and they all should have bonuses for difficulty, clean racing etc.

 

[TayeezSA]

Alright then, I stand corrected for the Casualization. I don't get how a credit system makes a game more casual though.

However @Johnnypenso, by making all cars available from the start, how does it solve those problems mentioned? The way you're making it sound to me is that this is the magical touch that will fix everything in GT's wake. Suddenly we won't be able to put F1 racing slicks on a Vitz when in theory and practical terms it can actually work. The AI will have to be like Skynet and yes, we're well aware of the AI needing buckets of compound and polish. Mind you, didn't you play GRID AUTOSPORT and ENJOYED IT despite the fact that it has simcade handling (I still don't get that classification), that it has good AI, good races and most of all, you had to BUY YOUR CARS?

It's also made to look as if by having to buy your cars that you won't race at all. You will get to race, just earn the vehicles is all. I don't understand why it also steers away serious racers. Explain that to me please.

I'm not a fan of making GT like this game or that game on the PC, oh because it's a hardcore simulator, this that, the other blah blah blah British. Though PD can take some elements into consideration for the betterment of the series. I respect the other games though, don't get me wrong on that. It's just I think that GT should be its own thing, not be something more on the generic terms.

Arcade Mode shouldn't go but it could use something like what GT3 did or GT4. Also it can do with a new addition like the event/series creator where you can even win credits with all the bits and bobs for options.

The reasons why I'm on the No end of the spectrum is because I prefer that a Credit/Unlocking system stays for the sake of progression and because it's the integrity of the GT series. If this was for a totally different game and had its focus on that then well and good. Go on and say I'm thinking about myself, am I not allowed to have my own reasons? Oh shush

 

[Exorcet]

I wouldn't say drop arcade mode, I'd say make it better.

Have all cars/tracks available from the start, have all options available (standing starts, mechanical damage, tire wear, penalties, etc), have the option to choose how many AI cars you want (up to 15 AI opponents) as well as being able to choose cars/tires for each AI opponent, have the option to adjust AI difficulty (pace/aggressiveness) and have either qualifying or the option to choose starting position on the grid.

If arcade mode had all of that there would be a variety of racing scenarios that could be created that would give GT infinite replay value.

Well that's more or less what I'm proposing. I'm not worried about what the mode is called, just that it's not as limited as arcade mode.

Alright then, I stand corrected for the Casualization. I don't get how a credit system makes a game more casual though.

It has to do with actions and reward. High end simulators reward players with success. For example, in flight sims the reward for hours of gameplay and manual reading might be to finally takeoff



Gameplay is deep enough so that just learning the game is enough to keep you going. Simple games can't rely on this. They have very shallow gameplay, so instead of relying on people enjoying themselves and developing their skills, the devs will lock away content. Now the player is focused on receiving a reward which puts out of their mind how tiring and repetitive a list of tasks they need to complete to get it.

It's also made to look as if by having to buy your cars that you won't race at all. You will get to race, just earn the vehicles is all. I don't understand why it also steers away serious racers. Explain that to me please.

Earning vehicles takes time. Why invest that time doing things you don't want to do and certainly don't have to do? If someone wants to jump into GT and race LMP's they need to spend a few weeks in career mode grinding. Why? It serves no purpose and generates no enjoyment. If the person also just happens to have limited time to spend on the game, that makes it even worse.

I'm not a fan of making GT like this game or that game on the PC, oh because it's a hardcore simulator, this that, the other blah blah blah British. Though PD can take some elements into consideration for the betterment of the series. I respect the other games though, don't get me wrong on that. It's just I think that GT should be its own thing, not be something more on the generic terms.

This is hardly about being generic. GT including a mode where all cars are available is as generic as running your game on modern hardware. No one is going to sell their game based on the fact that it runs on outdated and limited hardware from 20 years ago. Likewise GT's selling point shouldn't be "we strictly limit how players can play the game and only want our fans to enjoy themselves if they do things a certain way!" I too don't want GT to be generic, opening up all the cars is one step on that path. PD needs to be more open to new ideas, not less open.

Arcade Mode shouldn't go but it could use something like what GT3 did or GT4. Also it can do with a new addition like the event/series creator where you can even win credits with all the bits and bobs for options.

There is already a mode for credits, I say keep the credits there. They aren't necessary in the first place, spreading them to other game modes just drags them down and makes them redundant. What GT needs and what it has not done is a simulator mode that actually acts like a racing simulator. A sandbox for the player where no content is held behind arbitrary locked doors. This doesn't mean GT Mode and credits go away. They'll be where they always were. They just won't be mandatory anymore. This is how it should have been all along.

The reasons why I'm on the No end of the spectrum is because I prefer that a Credit/Unlocking system stays for the sake of progression and because it's the integrity of the GT series. If this was for a totally different game and had its focus on that then well and good. Go on and say I'm thinking about myself, am I not allowed to have my own reasons? Oh shush

Again this isn't a one or the other debate. This is about everyone getting what they want because there's no reason not to do it that way. It's why being against a free mode comes off as sounding so odd. It's one thing to defend what you like, and I'm right up there wanting PD to keep GT Mode for GT Mode fans even if I think it's a horrible way to make a video game. However it's something else entirely to go out of your way to make sure that other people aren't able to have what they want even if it doesn't impact you in the slightest.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Alright then, I stand corrected for the Casualization. I don't get how a credit system makes a game more casual though.

Just going by the numbers, all the sims I'm aware of (which isn't all, my experience is limited) have no credit or unlock systems. All the simcade and arcade games I know of, which again is limited, all have credit and unlock systems. Doesn't mean one is better than the other except from your or my personal standpoint and what we enjoy, and we can certainly enjoy both or just one.

However @Johnnypenso, by making all cars available from the start, how does it solve those problems mentioned? The way you're making it sound to me is that this is the magical touch that will fix everything in GT's wake. Suddenly we won't be able to put F1 racing slicks on a Vitz when in theory and practical terms it can actually work. The AI will have to be like Skynet and yes, we're well aware of the AI needing buckets of compound and polish. Mind you, didn't you play GRID AUTOSPORT and ENJOYED IT despite the fact that it has simcade handling (I still don't get that classification), that it has good AI, good races and most of all, you had to BUY YOUR CARS?

Simcade to me means more forgiving than a real sim, cornering and straightline speeds are still fairly accurate and you still need to take proper racing lines to be fast. Tuning is usually pretty simple but effective. Take GT6, dumb down the tuning to some simple sliders, add SRF and you've got Grid Autosport.

Making all cars available from the start doesn't magically fix any problems at all, it just gives those that want it, an option to skip racing against the computer to gain access to content. Offline holds no interest for me and most of the experienced gamers I know as a way gain access to the content, but does hold some interest from a curiousity standpoint. That's an important distinction. I'll race offline if the racing is interesting, I did some in Grid Autosport because it was enjoyable but it's not a simulation, it's meant to be a simcade driving experience aimed at more casual users. If it was a sim, I'd expect to have all the cars available at the start and offline being optional and just for fun.

It's also made to look as if by having to buy your cars that you won't race at all. You will get to race, just earn the vehicles is all. I don't understand why it also steers away serious racers. Explain that to me please.

I don't want to race offline it's as simple as that. I want to race against real people, online. I went online in December 2010 in GT5 and other than getting my Bob's to grind for credits to buy stuff, I never used the offline portion of the game at all and loved every minute of it. If you aren't into online racing I can understand not understanding this position. Every minute I spend offline trying to earn fake money to race real cars is a minute wasted IMO and I'm not alone.

I'm not a fan of making GT like this game or that game on the PC, oh because it's a hardcore simulator, this that, the other blah blah blah British. Though PD can take some elements into consideration for the betterment of the series. I respect the other games though, don't get me wrong on that. It's just I think that GT should be its own thing, not be something more on the generic terms.

GT already is a game like many others. It's like Forza, it's like Need for Speed, it's like Ridge Racer. You have a fake economy and must earn fake credits to gain access to content in the garage. It is a game about cars and racing, there aren't a lot of options in terms of working your way through the game, really only two. Either everything is available from the beginning like in sims, or you have a fake economy and turn it into a game you have to progress through like every other racing videogame. Or you can have both options which is what I want.

Arcade Mode shouldn't go but it could use something like what GT3 did or GT4. Also it can do with a new addition like the event/series creator where you can even win credits with all the bits and bobs for options.

I say scrap the Arcade Mode, it's obsolete once you introduce an Event/Series creator and award prizes for every race commensurate with the usual career mode. Why would we race around for free in a game with an economy? I think we should be rewarded even for running hotlaps and reaching certain milestones. If you're going to have an economy you should be rewarded for every single thing in the game.

The reasons why I'm on the No end of the spectrum is because I prefer that a Credit/Unlocking system stays for the sake of progression and because it's the integrity of the GT series. If this was for a totally different game and had its focus on that then well and good. Go on and say I'm thinking about myself, am I not allowed to have my own reasons? Oh shush

I've posed this question many, many times and never ever get an answer. If I have the option to have all cars from the start and then just go directly online and play, and you choose the option of a classic GT career mode just like it is now, how does this affect your gameplay in any way? You can easily design the game so both portions are either mutually exclusive or combined at the users choice. You can progress through the game just the way you like and so can I? Tell me what is wrong with that?

 

[CBH]

I've posed this question many, many times and never ever get an answer. If I have the option to have all cars from the start and then just go directly online and play, and you choose the option of a classic GT career mode just like it is now, how does this affect your gameplay in any way? You can easily design the game so both portions are either mutually exclusive or combined at the users choice. You can progress through the game just the way you like and so can I? Tell me what is wrong with that?

You should never have all cars available from the start to race you have to earn them, if you want to race, accept if the cars are available in some GT6 events or like the seasonal races we have now where you do not need your own car for that event. If you want all the cars available at the start of Gran Turismo game it should belong in the arcade mode and no where else.

 

[Tornado]

Shockingly, that doesn't actually answer his question.

 

[Tomle0106]

The game is broken at that point, there would be any purpose to even play the game at all.

 

[CBH]

Shockingly, that doesn't actually answer his question.

I am just telling dear Johnny, what is the best for the game.

 

[niky]

I am just telling dear Johnny, what I think is the best for the game.

Fixed that for you.

Mind you, you're taking to veterans with thousands of hours of driving time invested over the past several years... Since GT1.

For us, having to slog through boring, easy career races just to get to the good stuff is a drag. Like being forced to play through a hundred hours of tutorials before actually getting to the real game.

 

[mister dog]

Buying cars and adding them to your garage is something essential and fun (IMO) to games like GT and FM, as car collecting is the main theme of those games apart from the racing. It is however essential to have a diverse and entertaining career mode that entices you to keep on playing in order to gain enough dough so you can purchase them all, and sadly that's another area were GT falls short, as it turns into a bloody grindfest very quickly.

 

[MarchingSaint]

Buying cars and adding them to your garage is something essential and fun (IMO) to games like GT and FM, as car collecting is the main theme of those games apart from the racing. It is however essential to have a diverse and entertaining career mode that entices you to keep on playing in order to gain enough dough so you can purchase them all, and sadly that's another area were GT falls short, as it turns into a bloody grindfest very quickly.

a good idea might be to unlock more cars to use in arcade mode during the usual GT career so before buying them you can test drive 'em.

 

[JKgo]

As I said earlier, I'm still against making all the cars available from the start: despite what the box says, at the end of the day, Gran Turismo is a video game, not a full-on simulator...and as a video game, it needs something tangible that tells you "Hey dude look you made a progress! Good for you!" I mean there's an "Ending Movie" for crying out loud....
The salient issue here should be whether making the cars available from the start would make the game better; I believe it won't, since that is not the main problem(s) with the GT series right now.
Yes, I understand the online-only players' grievances. The flip side of the arguments would be what'd stop some dumbasses entering a lobby with Redbull X2011 and ruin it for everyone else when clearly this douche has no clue how to handle this car? Lobby restrictions? Not all the lobbies have that, is it. OK maybe X2011 wasn't a good example, but you know what I mean.
So an unlock-system similar to COD's MP may be a compromise PDI needs to think about. (No teabagging. Please.)

Until I hear about an alternative that can be understood by not just the hardcore fans but 10-year old little Timmy whose mommy bought the game because the box said "Rated E For Everyone", I will be against this.