NFL: 2012 Season

[Villain]

If the on field hacks make a bad call, what the replay is allowed to overturn IS affected. Simultaneous possession is not reviewable, for example. Not announcing what the original call was prior to going to view the replay is also a huge error.

When did I say officials aren't criticized yearly?

But if you think the criticism of the last 15 hours has any precedent whatsoever in the history of this league you either haven't been paying attention or are completely clueless.

For example, have you ever heard about Rule 17 before last night/today? I'll bet 99.9999% of fans have not. This current situation is different indeed.

I'm not trying to defend the replacement refs, but trust me, the normal refs get just as much flack from the fans and the owners. It's just overblown this year because of the fact that these aren't the normal refs. I think Jerry Jones even had a take a fine or two last season for criticizing the officials (you can fact check me on that is you care).

Refs will always make mistakes - which is why they had to institute the replay officials in the first place.

 

[Danoff]

If the on field hacks make a bad call, what the replay is allowed to overturn IS affected. Simultaneous possession is not reviewable, for example.

It is reviewable in the end zone. Yet another mistake by the replacement refs.

But if you think the criticism of the last 15 hours has any precedent whatsoever in the history of this league you either haven't been paying attention or are completely clueless.

Agreed.

I'm not trying to defend the replacement refs, but trust me, the normal refs get just as much flack from the fans and the owners. It's just overblown this year because of the fact that these aren't the normal refs. I think Jerry Jones even had a take a fine or two last season for criticizing the officials (you can fact check me on that is you care).

Refs will always make mistakes - which is why they had to institute the replay officials in the first place.

This is different. It's affecting almost every play of the game. This isn't a few blunders, this is changing the way the game is played - which might even be bearable if it were consistent.

Before this year, if the refs had given a head coach two challenges that he shouldn't have had, I'd have called it a massive blunder and highly unusual. This year it's buried under waaaay worse officiating. On almost every play you can see mistakes.

I've gotten to the point where when I watch NFL games I can call penalties before the flag comes out. And 99% of the time I'm right. I'll watch the snap and a second later say "holding" to my wife, the flag comes out, holding is called.

This year I do that, but no flag comes out. I say my usual "block in the back" when I see it, but no flag comes out.

The only thing the regular refs regularly missed was intentional grounding (and maybe offsides on a kickoff). These days I can find something on just about every play... and that's because players are cheating on almost every play... and that's because the refs aren't calling it.

 

[Chqr]

The fact that these refs are replacement refs may give some of you an extra reason to have a go at the decisions made on the field.

As far as I'm concerned, they are fully-qualified and trained to do their job. Just because they're replacement refs does it mean they're bad officials.

If they make bad calls, I don't see why they should be more to blame than a regular official making a bad call.

 

[Quackjack]

Just pay the old refs... Not that hard

 

[Danoff]

As far as I'm concerned, they are fully-qualified and trained to do their job. Just because they're replacement refs does it mean they're bad officials.

These guys are from division II. NFL not only has different rules, it has different personalities (players will immediately figure out what they can get away with and push it), and the game operates on an extreme level of complexity and speed compared to what they are used to.

If they make bad calls, I don't see why they should be more to blame than a regular official making a bad call.

...because they make 10 times as many bad calls per game.

 

[sumbrownkid]

It's not just the replacement refs being atrocious at worst, it's also the players being coached into making plays that really tests the ref's knowledge of the rule book. That, and some of them purposely argue small calls knowing they can intimidate the ref.

 

[BJBEOSmitty]

I'm not trying to defend the replacement refs, but trust me, the normal refs get just as much flack from the fans and the owners. It's just overblown this year because of the fact that these aren't the normal refs. I think Jerry Jones even had a take a fine or two last season for criticizing the officials (you can fact check me on that is you care).

Refs will always make mistakes - which is why they had to institute the replay officials in the first place.

Was the call Jones was unhappy with so bad, and caused such a national uproar that ESPN cancelled the Sportscenter that evening to discuss the bad call for more than 30 minutes, and nearly the entire Spoetscenter? Players tweets, celebrity tweets, front pages of NEWS SECTIONS not just Sports pages. Players from other teams (Drew Brees) commenting on the call as well. Turn on your tv or radio and catch up please. Contests on ESPN radio were held today to "name the play". As pedantic as you might think some of the above is... None of it happened with your Jones' situation. Did the NFL have to release a written statemen about bad calls in the past? Your Jones example specifically? Provide a link if they did Sir, because I don't beliee they did. They are with this one.

Rule 17 has NEVER been mentioned before, until now. When I read what it was I was shocked. This time it's different. It was indeed that bad.

 

[Villain]

Was the call Jones was unhappy with so bad, and caused such a national uproar that ESPN cancelled the Sportscenter that evening to discuss the bad call for more than 30 minutes, and nearly the entire Spoetscenter? Players tweets, celebrity tweets, front pages of NEWS SECTIONS not just Sports pages. Players from other teams (Drew Brees) commenting on the call as well. Turn on your tv or radio and catch up please. Contests on ESPN radio were held today to "name the play". As pedantic as you might think some of the above is... None of it happened with your Jones' situation. Did the NFL have to release a written statemen about bad calls in the past? Your Jones example specifically? Provide a link if they did Sir, because I don't beliee they did. They are with this one.

Rule 17 has NEVER been mentioned before, until now. When I read what it was I was shocked. This time it's different. It was indeed that bad.

Honestly, if you base the importance of sports news on whatever storyline that SportsCenter is harping on then I feed bad for you.

 

[BJBEOSmitty]

Honestly, if you base the importance of sports news on whatever storyline that SportsCenter is harping on then I feed bad for you.

If you choose to ignore the eight other items I listed of admittedly various quality and focus on just one you don't like and make a rather hollow point with it, no wonder you're taking the position you are. Explains a lot actually.

Some quite clear and with weight, others perhaps weightless (celebrity tweets) were listed for a reason. This thing has blown up beyond anything that has come before it.

I have a journalism degree among others and could probably design a proper page better than a large percentage of gtp'ers.

"After further review, that is an incomplete touchdown. Please make the score 17 to Capital Q. The ball will be placed on the eleventeenth yard line."

"After further review, we should all go back to our jobs at Foot Locker."

"After further review, plays like this don't happen in Division III or Arena League. Please replay the down after everyone in the stadium eats a bran muffin, to help this $h|t move along"

"After further review, the DH has no place in baseball, there is no "T" in the Y-M-C-A song, and next game we will wears the round red noses like we should."

 

[sumbrownkid]

When coaches and players still don't respect your refs, then Goodell either has to suspend everyone, or admit that the current guys just don't cut it and try to get the old crew back on field as soon as possible.

If they manage to rob the Packers in a regular season game, then how can we trust them in the post season? That's what the league is in danger of losing: Trust.

 

[BJBEOSmitty]

I posted the above photo in my Giveaway Thread in the Marketplace Forum. Giving away ANY birthday ticket in a caption contest. All are welcome. I am currently accepting entries for FOUR other fun giveaways as well in the same thread. Thread plug over...


I understand that the NFL, like a lot of other businesses at this point in time are changing, limiting or simply not starting employee retirement plans/401k pensions.

They have a right to do that.

But if you crap your bed, you still have to lie in it.

 

[Pupik]

Dude, people hate the refs every year. This time it's just easier to blame it on them being scabs.

Exactly.

And for the dozens of players complaining, there's hundreds more keeping their mouths shut and playing the game. Pathetic to hear these overpaid drones bitch and moan about something that has miniscule importance to their way of life. The only change is to the data on the box score. The quality of the gameplay is already under scrutiny, as it has for the past few years...at the end of the day, the NFL is still getting mostly packed stadia and TV ratings. If there's any decrease in either, the ref situation is not really among the top reasons, except in cases of inflated hyperbole.

Anyhow, for the past 25 years or so, the home team always scrapes out a "controversial" victory on the last play. How is this even much of a shock to the fans...maybe they aren't paying attention. Just watch the the fourth quarter of an NBA or NCAA football game sometime if you don't believe this: Home team gets the call whenever possible.

The talking heads just want better teams to represent the unbeaten, methinks; so they blather on about the refs instead of everything else going on in the world of sport (admittedly, September is the crux of a ton of activity outside the NFL [well, except the NHL thanks to the lockout]).

 

[Villain]

no wonder you're taking the position you are. Explains a lot actually.

I think that you're perceiving my position to be something it's not.

Of course I think the replacement refs are awful. I meantioned that earlier if you care to scroll up. Or course they totally blew it.

But refs blow it all the time. In every sport. This is nothing new, it's just a more ready-made talking point since the regular refs are in the midst of CBA talks. ESPN is a joke, what Drew Brees says on Twitter is also a joke, and whatever other sports radio "point" you made about them talking about it is also worthy.

If you choose to ignore the eight other items I listed of admittedly various quality and focus on just one you don't like and make a rather hollow point with it,

I ignored the rest of your "points" (by the way - a rhetorical question hardly counts as a "point") because the post of mine you quoted clearly said that you can fact check those fines from last season yourself if you care. Since I don't care, I won't be doing your homework for you.

 

[Watt2159]

Theres only one solution to this......we protest the NHL lockout.

Yeah the pass was incomplete, or intercepted or whatever the opposite of that call was, personally I'm not a fan of either team really, but the Greenbo player got the ball first, and had it the whole way down.

 

[Pupik]

I kind of subscribe to the theory of: If your game came down to a single play, you probably wasted three other opportunities (or more). Hinging your outcome on a single play out of a hundred in a game is a statistical oddity, even 1 of 4 isn't all that great.

That's my gripe with this; sure, we want the best refs to go with the best players, but at the end of the day, it's just a game.

 

[Villain]

Exactly.

And for the dozens of players complaining, there's hundreds more keeping their mouths shut and playing the game. Pathetic to hear these overpaid drones bitch and moan about something that has miniscule importance to their way of life. The only change is to the data on the box score. The quality of the gameplay is already under scrutiny, as it has for the past few years...at the end of the day, the NFL is still getting mostly packed stadia and TV ratings. If there's any decrease in either, the ref situation is not really among the top reasons, except in cases of inflated hyperbole.

Anyhow, for the past 25 years or so, the home team always scrapes out a "controversial" victory on the last play. How is this even much of a shock to the fans...maybe they aren't paying attention. Just watch the the fourth quarter of an NBA or NCAA football game sometime if you don't believe this: Home team gets the call whenever possible.

The talking heads just want better teams to represent the unbeaten, methinks; so they blather on about the refs instead of everything else going on in the world of sport (admittedly, September is the crux of a ton of activity outside the NFL [well, except the NHL thanks to the lockout]).

I kind of subscribe to the theory of: If your game came down to a single play, you probably wasted three other opportunities (or more). Hinging your outcome on a single play out of a hundred in a game is a statistical oddity, even 1 of 4 isn't all that great.

That's my gripe with this; sure, we want the best refs to go with the best players, but at the end of the day, it's just a game.

You sir, deserve two Presidential Beer Salutes.

 

[Patrick]

How many Obama/beer pictures do you have?

 

[Pupik]

Ah, but the real question is how many pictures of Obama smoking a cigarette can you find?

 

[Patrick]

 

[Pupik]

Okay, good enough. Looking at Google Images means Imma D. Rail this thread too quickly.

 

[JohnBM01]

If this thread's going in the direction of getting locked, I'll try to keep things relevant...


I've heard all the commentary and seen all the different replays. I just don't know what to effectively conclude about that play. I want to say it was caught by SEA, then intercepted by GB. "Too tough to call" is the key phrase for me in describing that finish.

In news other than the ending of GB at SEA, that one Denver Bronco got a one-game suspension for hitting Matt Schaub in the head, causing Schaub to lose a small chunk of his ear. Matt's tough- just popped back up and still led his team to victory.


So Houston, Atlanta, and Arizona are all unbeaten heading into this weekend. Three unbeaten teams... how many of these three do you think will REMAIN unbeaten heading into next weekend?

 

[Villain]

Okay, good enough. Looking at Google Images means Imma D. Rail this thread too quickly.

Since I can't post this as a Visitor Message on your wall...

Go 49ers!

 

[BJBEOSmitty]

I ignored the rest of your "points" (by the way - a rhetorical question hardly counts as a "point") because the post of mine you quoted clearly said that you can fact check those fines from last season yourself if you care. Since I don't care, I won't be doing your homework for you.

I won't be doing it either. It's unimportant on a grand scale Sir.

The fact that one guy (Jerry Jones) was fined for complaining about the referees last year (or the year before that, it doesn't matter at all) is perhaps the least relevant point in this thread. One could find dozens and dozens of fines of a similar nature through the years. Hundreds when you add in other American professional sports and once you throw in top flight football worldwide, you could find 1,000 instances with links for each if you had the time. Surely a Grecian bitched at the first Olympic games, but I don't care as it's as relevant to the discussion as What Jerry Jones had for breakfast the day he was fined it would any of these myriad of fines or complaints about calls result in REAL
change? New perceptions? Lasting imprints?

That's why the Jerry Jones point is severely unimportant. What is important is that this situation is different. It will be league changing. You remember the "tuck rule" Tom Brady fumble, I'm sure. Quick... Name another controversial fumble by a QB from that SEASON. Thought so.

The Testaverde sneak for a TD that was woefully short but called a score was not the only missed goal line spot that week, mush less season or history of the league. But it was the impetus for change in this league. Instant Replay soon followed. That call was atrocious, cost a team a game, and it was time for the league to change.

As was the farce last night. It will change the negotiations. It will change the league. It will change OTHER leagues who might negotiate differently in the future. It's memorable is all... Chalking it up to just another bad call is head in the sand, avoid the big picture, uneqivocally, just plain bad.

Wait... Are you the back judge?

 

[BJBEOSmitty]

The Sportscenter following the disastrous end to the game is now the most watched ever! (at least 20 minutes or more - so all full episodes).

Yep... The #1 watched Sportscenter of ALL TIME. Despite starting around midnight ET. Not only is it #1 ever, it drew more viewers than ANY College Football game from this past weekend

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/colu...ment-referees-good-for-tv-business/57841970/1

This is not just another missed call that will be forgotten...

 

[JohnBM01]

THIS JUST IN...

Bill Belichick's wallet is now $50K light for going at the ref after the NE at BAL game. A few other coaches have also had their wallets lightened for going at the replacement refs.


According to SportsCenter right now, a deal between the NFL and the locked-out refs is close to being settled. So we MIGHT see them return as early as this Sunday.

 

[Villain]

The Sportscenter following the disastrous end to the game is now the most watched ever! (at least 20 minutes or more - so all full episodes).

Yep... The #1 watched Sportscenter of ALL TIME. Despite starting around midnight ET. Not only is it #1 ever, it drew more viewers than ANY College Football game from this past weekend.

Holy moley! That must be WAYYYY important!

 

[BJBEOSmitty]

Holy moley! That must be WAYYYY important!

What are you, 12?

If you choose to interpret it that waaaaaaay, then fine, go right ahead. Might I suggest a different "i" word than the one you chose.

Try "indicative".

Or maybe "in". As in head... and sand.

 

[Danoff]

First of all, to anyone who thinks this is normal criticism of the refs, you're not paying attention. This is nothing like I've ever seen in the last decade of NFL. It is fundamentally different and I think the players are right to criticize.

I've heard all the commentary and seen all the different replays. I just don't know what to effectively conclude about that play. I want to say it was caught by SEA, then intercepted by GB. "Too tough to call" is the key phrase for me in describing that finish.

No way. Not a chance. That was not tough to call. Tate removes his hand from the ball and puts it back. It's not even close. Nobody thinks that was a touchdown. It's not a controversial call, it's flat wrong.

Also, pass interference was not called (goof number 2)
Also, simultaneous possession is reviewable in the end zone (goof number 3)

That's 3 major goofs in 1 play... and it's not like that's the only play in the game that got screwed up. They missed penalties or called phantom penalties throughout the game. Almost every play was affected.

Even Vegas finds it unacceptable:

http://www.latimes.com/sports/sport...packersseahawks-game-20120926,0,1739785.story

 

[BJBEOSmitty]

That must be Super Double Neato important. It's Vegas after all!!

First of all, to anyone who thinks this is normal criticism of the refs, you're not paying attention. This is nothing like I've ever seen in the last decade of NFL. It is fundamentally different and I think the players are right to criticize.

Absolutely correct. Add another 20 years to your ten at least. Heck, nothing like it in League History.

 

[Pupik]

Even Vegas finds it unacceptable...

Vegas only finds it unacceptable when the house loses miserably for once. They're more concerned that less people will gamble.



The "Smooth Jimmy Apollos" of this world are going to hurt, but that's about it...Cry me a tributary.