Pininfarina Teases Fittipaldi EF7 Vision GT Before Geneva Motor Show
- Thread starter GTPNewsWire
- 448 comments
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- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
Good thing they don't simulate wrecks and safety extraction from said wreck...
- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
I think it's safe to say the same half-dozen or so members that only pop in to make a comment about "salt" simply because they can't formulate a better response for why they're bothered other members don't share their opinions on a video game aren't looking to be a part of a "discussion" in any way.
So, Wipeout then?
It was conceived as a marketing exercise.
The link's already been posted in the thread: the basic technology purported to be in the 2X just isn't possible. I imagine that's why a lot of people are bothered by it. The Vision GT project started innocuously enough: a slightly more-powerful turbo V8 engine in a hyper-proportioned Mercedes shell. It seemed in line with the stated goals of the project.
Other cars came, typically slightly more out-there versions of concepts we've seen (Mitsubishi, Subaru), or design studies that hinted at future directions for the company (Aston, Infiniti). It's not really my cup of tea—GT's been woefully behind the competition in terms of real-world models, so for me, this seemed like a really low priority—but I could at least understand the reasoning. Games are a great form of marketing, especially for the younger age groups.
Then, the digital willy-waving started. The 2X was arguably the first (the Aston, while immensely powerful, wasn't very far out of the realm of possibility), but the SRT just made a mockery of the whole thing. A multi-thousand-horsepower rolling peacock, with support beams that couldn't possibly withstand the forces they'd be dealing with, and "technologies that haven't been invented yet"? It's digital one-upmanship.
The early signs for the Pininfarina are good. There's seemingly a real-world car coming with it: plus point. A seasoned racing legend offering their input: plus point. Engineering handled by a team with a seriously potent resume: plus point.
It's still not what I'm really looking for in a sim-style game—I'd like the more traditional car encyclopaedia approach, which is seemingly only offered by Forza Motorsport these days—but it's obvious GT Sport is not in the same mould as previous installments. If PD is now doubling down on the fantasy car approach (and they definitely are, since a large chunk of the car list so far is just that), I only hope it maintains some ties to reality. Otherwise, there's really no need in even bothering with getting manufacturer licenses, IMO.
- 2,150
- Jakarta
About power source I think we have some good hint from this article I've just found :
http://www.automobilemag.com/news/fittipaldi-ef7-vision-grand-turismo-will-blow-your-mind/
And this is part of the articles that mention the probability for the power source of the car :
Pininfarina and Fittipaldi partnered up with HWA AG which build Mercedes-AMG’s DTM cars and supply the engines for Mercedes-AMG’s Formula 3 teams. HWA AG additionally has a long standing history with Mercedes-Benz, dating back to some of the brand’s most iconic racecars.
Working with HWA AG likely means that Fittipaldi’s EF7 will be powered by some form of Mercedes-AMG engine or race engine — most likely Mercedes-AMG’s ever popular 4.0-liter twin-turbocharged V-8 — and that the chassis could be based on one of HWA AG’s racecar designs.
http://www.automobilemag.com/news/fittipaldi-ef7-vision-grand-turismo-will-blow-your-mind/
And this is part of the articles that mention the probability for the power source of the car :
Pininfarina and Fittipaldi partnered up with HWA AG which build Mercedes-AMG’s DTM cars and supply the engines for Mercedes-AMG’s Formula 3 teams. HWA AG additionally has a long standing history with Mercedes-Benz, dating back to some of the brand’s most iconic racecars.
Working with HWA AG likely means that Fittipaldi’s EF7 will be powered by some form of Mercedes-AMG engine or race engine — most likely Mercedes-AMG’s ever popular 4.0-liter twin-turbocharged V-8 — and that the chassis could be based on one of HWA AG’s racecar designs.
- 11,208
- Sweden
- eran0004
Looking forward to see the full car!
Regarding the simulation aspect: The laws of physics are constant. A car with a mass of 500 kg is a car with a mass of 500 kg, regardless of what the material is. A car with 1000 bhp is a car with 1000 bhp, regardless of what the engine is.
You can question the realism of the design that the simulation is based on, but the simulation itself is just a good as it is for any real cars, because in the end they're all variables in the memory of a computer.
Regarding the simulation aspect: The laws of physics are constant. A car with a mass of 500 kg is a car with a mass of 500 kg, regardless of what the material is. A car with 1000 bhp is a car with 1000 bhp, regardless of what the engine is.
You can question the realism of the design that the simulation is based on, but the simulation itself is just a good as it is for any real cars, because in the end they're all variables in the memory of a computer.
- 16,104
- Melbourne
- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
Well, this popped out of nowhere. I honestly didn't think PD still cared about the VGT program (yes, I know I'm wrong). Why this wouldn't come from PD themselves is very strange - if they can't report on their own affairs, what the heck is going on? Something isn't quite right in that Tokyo office, I swear. Apart from that, a V8 engine from the AMG GT is fantastic, considering some VGT cars have stupid engines and stupid technologies. This thing looks like it'll be an all-out, hardcore racing machine where the driver has all the control. Kind of the like the Ferrari F40.
- 13,865
- Adelaide
- Neomone
In the particular case of the Chaparral laser drive, I'd say it would significantly effect the way it drives.
For starters, you've got a power plant that pushes the car directly like a rocket engine instead of driving the wheels. No wheel slip, ever. How that power pushes on the frame of the car relative to the centre of mass should result in a significantly different driving experience. If it's on the centre of mass you'll have no control of the attitude of the car through the accelerator. Above and your control will be reversed form a normal car.
Then you get the fact that there's a whole heap of weight of batteries and laser ancillaries that need to be distributed around the car. The suspension has to be able to deal with the fact that the drive is pulsed at (probably) a very high frequency. Unless the vertical components of the laser drive are incredibly well balanced you'll get vertical moments as well. I imagine that dynamic control of the laser and it's cavity would probably be necessary. Air flow around the car will be massively effected, because the laser has to essentially drive huge amounts of air out the back at high speed. Where does that air come from and how is it fed to the heating zone?
Technically, if you had a whole bunch of these racing around at the same time they would significantly affect each other by preheating air. And probably all the explosive pressure waves would wreck the road, the scenery and any spectators in short order. Assuming that the cars were build to withstand it.
And that's just the driving stuff, before you even get into how impossible an engineering task it is. It's not technically physically impossible, but it's so far beyond any concept of energy storage and materials science that we can even plausibly dream up that it might as well be. It's not a concept, it's the car equivalent of a ten year old's wet dream about being Superman.
The camber thing is wrong but it's a minor kind of wrong in the scale of things. The game is still pretty realistic as long as you don't mess with the camber too much. The Chaparral might as well be a Wipeout AG ship for how realistic it is. Seriously, if you can accept the Chaparral as moderately realistic you can accept anything.
- 13,865
- Adelaide
- Neomone
No, it wouldn't. But other things being wrong is not an reason for not doing some things right. I'm not saying the rest of the game is fine. I'm saying that laser cars are also one of it's issues, and one that often instead gets praised as a positive feature.
I think modelling a physically impossible car is just as big a problem as having physically impossible tyres, be they super softs or SRF.
- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
I'm confused how you some how think or seem to extrapolate that any one person (in this case Imari) has somehow cherry picked a problem and ignored other issues. I don't understand coming in from left field on camber issues or tire model, physics or in general issues being bigger, when the topic of discussion is a VGT and how it may possibly fit in. And also how since other VGT are quite skewed on reality, but no the less look set to be paired with realistic cars for a sanctioned esports event, hopefully this isn't the case for this particular car.
So yet again as explained creating a fictional piece of vaporware and simply saying it can exist because it's just data at the end of the day, isn't what defines or can be considered simulation.
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- 40,766
Consider the Red Bull X1.
That the high speed aerodynamic modeling for GT5 when it launched was bad (and amusingly in the same way GT6's still is) did not take away from how much effort was put into justifying its existence and claims. The PR song and dance was still way over the top, but you could see where it was coming from.
That the high speed aerodynamic modeling for GT5 when it launched was bad (and amusingly in the same way GT6's still is) did not take away from how much effort was put into justifying its existence and claims. The PR song and dance was still way over the top, but you could see where it was coming from.
- 35,176
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
First, something that I just need to get off my chest: These arguments are perfect examples of what is wrong with the community specifically in this section. One guy says he loves this, someone comes along and tells them what they like is a waste of time/space/resources or whatever else, usually because they didn't get their shiny pixelated representation of the car or track they so badly like. I'm not saying either side is correct or horribly wrong nor am I saying no one is allowed to have an opinion but can we at all have a discussion free of all the attitudes?
Just felt like letting that out because it honestly feels like toxicity rules here,.
Back on topic: Regarding this itself, I'm really interested in it. I know its yet another non FIA thing in the game but given this is PD, I'm not convinced it means jack when it come to content so frankly I'm not bothered. I'm very curious to see what they have come up with.
Just felt like letting that out because it honestly feels like toxicity rules here,.
Back on topic: Regarding this itself, I'm really interested in it. I know its yet another non FIA thing in the game but given this is PD, I'm not convinced it means jack when it come to content so frankly I'm not bothered. I'm very curious to see what they have come up with.
- 1,743
- Aussie
- Tassie_tiger
Cool. 
Personally, it's nice to see the VGT roster still expanding.
Though I wonder why there's been silence for this long from those manufacturers already listed.
I'm looking forward to reading and seeing more of this car at Geneva.
Personally, it's nice to see the VGT roster still expanding.
Though I wonder why there's been silence for this long from those manufacturers already listed.
I'm looking forward to reading and seeing more of this car at Geneva.
- 35,176
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
Cool.
Personally, it's nice to see the VGT roster still expanding.
Though I wonder why there's been silence for this long from those manufacturers already listed.
Maybe they were waiting on what PD did next?
- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
It's a discussion board, and people discuss stuff in a impassioned or heated manner but rarely come to school yard remarks and even if they did a mod is close by to restore order. In general I don't see how this detracts from concerns in regards to an unexpected return of VGT or those who are excited due to the general like of them. I mean the same heated debate here isn't all that different from what I've seen you partake in on the Motorsports sub-forum so why is it somehow different?
Also as noted, since it's simply a teaser, how do we know it wont be part of the FIA homologated cars for GTS, there are other Vision cars, was there something I missed indicating this would be barred from that ability?
- 1,743
- Aussie
- Tassie_tiger
Yep, sure. 👍
TBH, that sentence was probably something I shouldn't have bothered with.
But now that we're here, I can certainly understand the silence prior to Sports' announcement.
I guess I was just expressing my surprise that the first thing we hear is from a new contender, as opposed to one already listed.
On another note, who's up for using their skills to mirror the image and create a complete rear end?
- 35,176
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
While I agree the Motorsports section itself is all heated at times, most of the time I only seem to see the same two starting all the mess (although the big explosion in posts after the finish of a big race unexpectedly bought a lot more of it all at once) whereas here, it seems like its so much more prevelent. I'm not saying its detracting from the VGT, but it just seems at times it seems like you can't have something to like about GT without being shot down because you don't agree (and to a degree, the other way around). Maybe its just me seeing how things just seem so much more conflictive in general everywhere, but it feels like this portion just has gotten more toxic the years, its getting harder for me to tell at times what is a discussion and what is a argument.
- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
Then don't share it, I avoid these threads most of the time for that very reason, if I enjoy something or don't then I have no reason to press upon others as to why something is amazing or not. However, when people just same some outright silly things that's vastly different and should be addressed as such. If someone likes VGT cars just because hey that's what they like, then there is no harm in that.
This sub-forum is no more dividing at times than the GT6, GT5, GT4 and so on. Nor is it any more or less heated than every F1 GP thread during the season, WEC happenings, crazy race finishes, and even silly NASCAR rules on a dart board. I'd say true anger and unrest happens on the opinions sub forum but even then its manageable.
And to be honest discussions do create debate many times, what so bad about that, it's when debates become a verbal fist match that is an issue. Also I don't see anyone being called out for simply liking that a new VGT is coming.
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- 2,150
- Jakarta
There is a countdown timer to Geneva at Fittipaldi's homepage and also this :
A blurred side profile of the car that looks like it is going to be mid-engined supercar (or hypercar?) which likely also from what I've seen is gonna be like hardcore track car (Vulcan, P1 GTR, FXX K etc)
A blurred side profile of the car that looks like it is going to be mid-engined supercar (or hypercar?) which likely also from what I've seen is gonna be like hardcore track car (Vulcan, P1 GTR, FXX K etc)
- 35,176
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
Yeah true, I had long forgotten about those. Guess just seeing it all again after finding something I actually was interested in just sorta annoyed me abit.
Oh I'm not against discussions or debates, its the part in bold that I'm reffering to (which is usually thinly veiled)
There is a countdown timer to Geneva at Fittipaldi's homepage and also this :
A blurred side profile of the car that looks like it is going to be mid-engined supercar (or hypercar?) which likely also from what I've seen is gonna be like hardcore track car (Vulcan, P1 GTR, FXX K etc)
I can't wait to see this car !
- 50,874
- Australia
- SpacedustDaddy
Look like a Stratos merged with a Diablo GT2.There is a countdown timer to Geneva at Fittipaldi's homepage and also this :
A blurred side profile of the car that looks like it is going to be mid-engined supercar (or hypercar?) which likely also from what I've seen is gonna be like hardcore track car (Vulcan, P1 GTR, FXX K etc)
- 356
- Kuwait
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