POLL: Do You Like The <1,000,000 Cr. Gift Restriction?

I'm tired of the flaming, the baiting, the insults and the jabs.

I give...

There come a time when, if one's point of view disputed and agreed with by the same train of thought the only thing left to do is:

:banghead:

Peace...
 
strngz0731
All I was doing was disputing the annoying repetition of "it doesn't hurt anyone" comments that pollute threads like this.
Your claim is that duping IS hurting people, correct? Show me the causation between duping and the hurting of people. What I was showing you is that there is no causation, there's only PD hurting people.
 
Your claim is that duping IS hurting people, correct? Show me the causation between duping and the hurting of people. What I was showing you is that there is no causation, there's only PD hurting people.

1. No, I'm not really claiming that. My only real claim is that "it doesn't hurt anyone" and "I paid for the game so I can do what I want" are simply getting "old" as far as justifications are concerned.
(All I've attempted to convey in my recent posts in this thread has simply been on the point that those justifications are getting "old".)

2. If (and yes, this is an assumption, but a logical one that I'm sure others share) PD's solution through restriction is even in part a result of the exploitation of the gift/trading loophole, regardless whether it's the right solution or not (and I don't think it is), it hurts those that weren't exploiting the gift/trading loophole but are now (will be effective March 3rd, actually) limited by the restriction. There's the causation.

I wasn't going to post again, but will gladly discuss the topic in this sort of fair and appropriate manner!

Peace...
 
I wasn't going to post again, but will gladly discuss the topic in this sort of fair and appropriate manner!

:lol:, that's funny considering who first took the offensive with every response he got.


(All I've attempted to convey in my recent posts in this thread has simply been on the point that those justifications are getting "old".)

And I can assure you that that does not appear to be the case.

But I agree, this is useless.
 
strngz0731
1. No, I'm not really claiming that. My only real claim is that "it doesn't hurt anyone" and "I paid for the game so I can do what I want" are simply getting "old" as far as justifications are concerned.
(All I've attempted to convey in my recent posts in this thread has simply been on the point that those justifications are getting "old".)

2. If (and yes, this is an assumption, but a logical one that I'm sure others share) PD's solution through restriction is even in part a result of the exploitation of the gift/trading loophole, regardless whether it's the right solution or not (and I don't think it is), it hurts those that weren't exploiting the gift/trading loophole but are now (will be effective March 3rd, actually) limited by the restriction. There's the causation.

I wasn't going to post again, but will gladly discuss the topic in this sort of fair and appropriate manner!

Peace...
Well considering that you're saying nothing more than "I'm tired of hearing the same excuses", there's nothing to discuss. FYI: the reason you keep hearing the same "excuse" is that it's logical, as you've demonstrated by not being able to refute it and constantly backtracking until all you were left with is an un-arguable opinion.

Your #2 is illogical as I've already said.
 
(Oh, and while I'm at it...)

I also wanted to express issue with the whole "I paid for the game so I can play it how I want to" rhetoric that's constantly tossed around as a defense for taking advantage of the gift/trade loophole...

Please note, I'm going to make an anagoly. I know I'm not "comparing apples to apples". I know that this is "just a video game". I'm making an analogy - to illustrate a point. I'm not hating on any group or anyone in particular, so save the hating of me because this post isn't written to receive it...

Also note, this message has nothing to do with my opinion on usage of the gift/trade loophole. You're making an assumption if you're getting my opinion from this message. I'm all for people enjoying GT5 as they choose to. The only opinion I'm expressing specifically regards hearing "I paid for this game so I can play it how I want to" all the time.

Well, here it is my analogy:
I paid for my shoes, but that does not mean it's OK for me to shove the size 10 shoe that's on my foot up someone's 🤬 because I want to.

The point I'm trying to illustrate is that shoes are not desgned to shove up someone's 🤬. GT5 was not designed to give the purchaser instant access to the 1,000+ playable cars in the game.

That's all...

Peace!

This is the worst analogy ever. Wow. At least the restaurant one was debatable. This is just wrong on EVERY level. Kudos on failing so hard that you may have actually won by accident.
 
Suggestion, laugh if you want. What if the trading system was changed so that you couldn't be gifted a car that was above your current A-Spec level? The X1 you need to be LVL40 to buy, change it so you have to be LVL40 to be gifted one, enforce the level system for every trade. At least that way it would stop endless X1's being gifted to LVL0 players who have no intention of playing the game, I know some people on here have setup 10+ accounts previously just to trade cars, that's just silly.

If person A sends a LVL23 car to a person B who is LVL 20, when person B tries to receive the car it is rejected by the game and sent back to person A, who loses a trade for not being careful who he is trading with.

Also change the trade limit to 2 cars per day per PS3 system, just seems fairer. I love it all, don't know why people seem to take it all very seriously, I can understand in a way as PD are the ones actually causing the grief by not really having a clue what they are doing. One day it's this, the next day it's that, make your minds up and damn well stick to it. You will lose so much goodwill it's not worth it. If you can't, make me CEO and me & my army of Penguin Lieutenants will sort it all out. :)
 
Here is the one and probably the ONLY response to how duping "hurts" non dupers... it's all MENTAL... i.e. If I'm playing the game "as PD intended" and not duping, but I know others are, it mentally ruins or cheapens the game for me (the game I paid for just like the duper in this case), and this can be made especially clear in my mind by the caliber of some players online with X1's.

I will absolutely admit this is not the strongest argument, and the serial dupers are clearly way more pissed about NOT being allowed to do it than I ever was that they could... At this point I'd say go ahead and allow all gifting, but on some level I understand the feeling that online/trading aspects have been tainted by those exploiting the system.
 
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(Oh, and while I'm at it...)

I also wanted to express issue with the whole "I paid for the game so I can play it how I want to" rhetoric that's constantly tossed around as a defense for taking advantage of the gift/trade loophole...

Please note, I'm going to make an anagoly. I know I'm not "comparing apples to apples". I know that this is "just a video game". I'm making an analogy - to illustrate a point. I'm not hating on any group or anyone in particular, so save the hating of me because this post isn't written to receive it...

Also note, this message has nothing to do with my opinion on usage of the gift/trade loophole. You're making an assumption if you're getting my opinion from this message. I'm all for people enjoying GT5 as they choose to. The only opinion I'm expressing specifically regards hearing "I paid for this game so I can play it how I want to" all the time.

Well, here it is my analogy:
I paid for my shoes, but that does not mean it's OK for me to shove the size 10 shoe that's on my foot up someone's 🤬 because I want to.

The point I'm trying to illustrate is that shoes are not desgned to shove up someone's 🤬. GT5 was not designed to give the purchaser instant access to the 1,000+ playable cars in the game.

That's all...

Peace!


It's more along the lines of you bought this video game but you can't use half of the features anymore because some people were complaining too much.
Oh, wait, that's exactly what it is.

EDIT: To clarify, I'm blaming the "anti-duping" forum crowd for causing PD to take action, but they had nothing to do with PD's actions being useless.



Also, You can't rape someone with it because that's against that law as defined by just about every country, so that has nothing to do with the manufacturer setting restrictions.

That was an awful analogy and you're an idiot.
 
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EDIT: To clarify, I'm blaming the "anti-duping" forum crowd for causing PD to take action, but they had nothing to do with PD's actions being useless.
You know, that kinda reminds me of software pirating.

All those morons that pirate software caused companies to invent all kinds of crazy copy protection I, as an honest customer, have to put up with. And, by now, the same software pirates claim that all the copy protection is the reason they start pirating software in the first place.

And it's basically the same with GT5. People started to copy stuff, now PD brought a copy protection along (granted, a retarded one) and everybody has to deal with it.
Not boasting about duping and glitching, and, you know, keeping it a little more secret would probably have prevented the current situation.

Either way, it might not even be due to the duping itself that PD felt the need to step in, but more due to the insane amount of PSN accounts being created, server bandwidth being used or whatever.

But, well, since people felt the need to go completeley overboard, this is what it resulted in.

Trading was as good as dead anyways, so it's not that bad I guess, unless you're duping, in which case it does what it's supposed to do...
 
Enough is bloody enough...

OK, moderation staff, I respectfully call upon you to close this thread.

There's a lack of respectful dialog in regards to an opposing opinion here, and I'm getting tired of getting personally attacked - like being called an "idiot" - because I have an opposing opinion.
(I wanted and would've gladly welcomed a respectful debate of opposing opinions, but it's clear that simply isn't going to happen...)

It's not particularly on the OP of the thread, but this thread has basically become nothing more than a "pro-duping" rally, and I've previously been advised that "pro-duping" and "anti-duping" threads will be closed.

Apologies to the OP and all those that constructively contributed to this thread. Thanks to the moderation staff for their assistance.

Peace...
 
Enough is bloody enough...

OK, moderation staff, I respectfully call upon you to close this thread.

There's a lack of respectful dialog in regards to an opposing opinion here, and I'm getting tired of getting personally attacked - like being called an "idiot" - because I have an opposing opinion.
(I wanted and would've gladly welcomed a respectful debate of opposing opinions, but it's clear that simply isn't going to happen...)

It's not particularly on the OP of the thread, but this thread has basically become nothing more than a "pro-duping" rally, and I've previously been advised that "pro-duping" and "anti-duping" threads will be closed.

Apologies to the OP and all those that constructively contributed to this thread. Thanks to the moderation staff for their assistance.

Peace...
It's unfortunate that you haven't at least learned that your argument isn't logical. When you try to back up a claim by running in circles, you're going to be "attacked". And I really don't know that I can make it any clearer to you. It's a simple fact of the transitive property of logic. We know that B implies C ("PD's update" implies "we are hurt"), and you're trying to say that A implies C ("Dupers" implies "we are hurt") via the claim A implies B ("Dupers" implies "PD's update"), when it's simply not true.

As an analogy, if I were beaten by my father for getting a B in my logic class, you can't rightly claim that I was even partially responsible for my beating because I got the B. His actions are completely his responsibility, and the same is true of PD's update.

BTW, you could just stop coming to this thread, instead of running to the mods to destroy the entire thing because you don't like it. How ironic, after you criticized PD for taking a similarly gross action in response to a small complaint.
 
You know, that kinda reminds me of software pirating.

All those morons that pirate software caused companies to invent all kinds of crazy copy protection I, as an honest customer, have to put up with. And, by now, the same software pirates claim that all the copy protection is the reason they start pirating software in the first place.

And it's basically the same with GT5. People started to copy stuff, now PD brought a copy protection along (granted, a retarded one) and everybody has to deal with it.
Not boasting about duping and glitching, and, you know, keeping it a little more secret would probably have prevented the current situation.

Either way, it might not even be due to the duping itself that PD felt the need to step in, but more due to the insane amount of PSN accounts being created, server bandwidth being used or whatever.

But, well, since people felt the need to go completeley overboard, this is what it resulted in.

Trading was as good as dead anyways, so it's not that bad I guess, unless you're duping, in which case it does what it's supposed to do...

Yep.
The big difference with software piracy is that in that case I get why software companies take action. In this case I don't see why PD has to do this. It hurts no one (really) and you will still need an orignal copy to do the duping.
 
Yep.
The big difference with software piracy is that in that case I get why software companies take action. In this case I don't see why PD has to do this. It hurts no one (really) and you will still need an orignal copy to do the duping.

Simple. Acquiring cars is supposed time. Duping abreviates that process. Thus, it shortens the time a given player spends with GT5.
Now, binding a player to GT5 for longer periods of time won't make them more money, but it will probably keep the player from going for a product cumpeeting with GT5, which, in the long run, will increase future sales (as the player is less likely to jump ship).

This isn't the way to go to keep us playing Gran Turismo (in my opinion) but it's pretty easy to understand why PD would have an interest in preventing duping.

I don't mean to be offensive by saying this, but a lot of people seem to think that an action only affects others if it does so directly. They can't seem to see beyond their own nose.

As an analogy, if I were beaten by my father for getting a B in my logic class, you can't rightly claim that I was even partially responsible for my beating because I got the B. His actions are completely his responsibility, and the same is true of PD's update.
Well... Something is amiss and PD attempts to fix it. That is what's currently happening. To stick with your example, why aren't you (at lleast) partially responsible for your actions?
Granted, beating your offspring for a B is totally rubbish. But if you did better than a B, you wouldn't get a beating, either.

Well, let me go with another analogy:
You decide to drink alcohol. If you do it reasonably, your parents won't mind (duping a few cars every now and then, which probably wouldn't have caused PD to take action). But you come home completely wasted, every day for weeks on end (an incredible lot of people duping the hell out of GT5) and your parents start to scold you.
In my opinion, you are very well responsible for your behaviour and for your parents scolding you (going way overboard with the duping and thereby causing PD to do something).
 
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In a word, no. In fact I hate it. So far I've not duped a single car nor used the money trick between accounts but today a friend sent me a new Ford Mark IV which he'd bought using the money trick. And why not. PD are insistent on controlling how we play this game and until 1.07 the updates were for the better but this ridiculous restriction is compounding the problem with GT5's structure so before it goes back on on March 3rd I took the car.

The absurd RPG-esque levelling up system employed in GT5 is deeply flawed. Obtaining sufficient XP/Credits to obtain the more expensive cars eventually becomes a matter of ones willingness to grind and not one of skill. My main aim at present has been to obtain the five expensive vintage race cars, the Alfa, Miura, XJ-13, Mark IV & P330. Now I'm level 30 A-Spec with 8.5 million credits and 91% completion. I gained the Alfa, Miura and XJ-13 the "honest" way but in order to get both the remaining 20,000,000 cars I'd have to resort to grinding for credits and I'll make my stance on grinding clear. It is the most annoying, pointless, flawed aspect of GT5 and I refuse to repeatedly do races in A or B-Spec just to up my cash. It involves no skill and is a waste of time (pretty much like B-Spec itself) especially when you consider that most of the grinding for cash is done via B-Spec.

The same aforementioned friend has been engaged in a pointless aim of achieving Level 40 on B-Spec of late. His PS3's almost always on as he grinds away on B-Spec. How his fat PS3 hasn't succumbed to the YLOD is beyond me. As is how his wife hasn't thrown him out (he has two sons who I'm sure would like to play on the thing too.) Anyway, my point is that this new restriction will cause players to grind away endlessly to obtain these more expensive cars. If that is PD's wish then it should have been called Gran Turismo 5: The Real Grinding Simulator.

I hate raising a problem without offering a solution as there are many on here who will call me a moaner. So, PD, why not raise the cash/XP levels gained from on-line racing to a decent level to both promote on-line racing and give players a way of constructively playing the game without having to grind thus avoiding the need to dupe or use the cash trick to get the cars we really want to drive?
 
Simple. Acquiring cars is supposed time. Duping abreviates that process. Thus, it shortens the time a given player spends with GT5.

Can someone provide evidence that this is true for the majority? I can't fathom why unlocks would cause a player to play longer unless they are not interested in playing the game at all. I'd play GT longer if it was better. And it's better with more cars available because I get to do more, not less.

This isn't the way to go to keep us playing Gran Turismo (in my opinion) but it's pretty easy to understand why PD would have an interest in preventing duping.
If PD refuses to think, then yes, this is reasonable. If PD wants us to keep playing GT, they should ignore duping and just make GT worth playing.

I don't mean to be offensive by saying this, but a lot of people seem to think that an action only affects others if it does so directly. They can't seem to see beyond their own nose.
I see where this is coming from and you aren't being offensive at all, but if PD is going to take action to "protect" people from duping, they might as well be randomly changing the game. Duping has no negative effects, and if PD can't react rationally (ie trying to stop a problem that doesn't exist) you can't assume that they would do things properly if people "behaved".

Now ignoring that, it takes all of about 5 seconds to think of a better "solution" to duping.

- Provide unlock all button, and prevent people who use it from trading.
-Create easily obtainable replica cars, people who spend 20,000,000 cr get the real Mark IV, while other people can buy a Mark IV replica from the GT dealership. The real cars can't be traded, replicas can.

Well, let me go with another analogy:
You decide to drink alcohol. If you do it reasonably, your parents won't mind (duping a few cars every now and then, which probably wouldn't have caused PD to take action). But you come home completely wasted, every day for weeks on end (an incredible lot of people duping the hell out of GT5) and your parents start to scold you.
In my opinion, you are very well responsible for your behaviour and for your parents scolding you (going way overboard with the duping and thereby causing PD to do something).

The thing is dupe 1 car or 1,000,000, there are no side effects to let anyone know. It's more like drinking water. No one cares how much you drink because it doesn't make the slightest difference. The exception being people who are obsessed with stuff for no reason.
 
Let's not fix grinding for money and exp. Let's fix the duping so people who started in november get a good huge head start. And let's bring back grinding for money...

Now that every old player and everyone's sister's dog has an X1 but new players will not get it anywhere. Also with rubberband grinding you can earn the level 40 and endless moneys just by doing nothing. New players will suffer.

Fixing the stupid birthday bug would have been enough. Also pd could have fixed the prize cars and moneys.

Imho duping fixes a flaw in the game. The racing against the ai is just not wort the money and pd expects us to do it four months to be able to buy a car? Come on, common sense hellooo?
 
Can someone provide evidence that this is true for the majority? I can't fathom why unlocks would cause a player to play longer unless they are not interested in playing the game at all. I'd play GT longer if it was better. And it's better with more cars available because I get to do more, not less.
It's pretty simple. Make them play the game and give them the stuff they want one bit at a time. If they want to play with the X2010, make them play the game for X hours.
It works in a lot of games, as you can actually play to get there. That's the problem with GT5: Some might peerceive the way to get what they want to not be playing the game. That's the fundamental flaw in A-Spec mode.
However, this doesn't mean that you can't play the game without duping.
Additionally, having everything can also cause boredom because there's nothing left to look forwards to.

If PD refuses to think, then yes, this is reasonable. If PD wants us to keep playing GT, they should ignore duping and just make GT worth playing.
They should change A-Spec to the point that acquiring cars becomes fun and restrict duping at the same time. Simple, one would think, but this is PD we're talking about.

I see where this is coming from and you aren't being offensive at all, but if PD is going to take action to "protect" people from duping, they might as well be randomly changing the game. Duping has no negative effects, and if PD can't react rationally (ie trying to stop a problem that doesn't exist) you can't assume that they would do things properly if people "behaved".
Obviously, PD thought it was a problem. They wouldn't have taken action otherwise. And, as I said before, it isn't necessarily to 'protect' someone from the effects of duping.
In fact, I think they don't give a crap about, say, the trading going downhill. They killed themselves. But, as I pointed out, in their weird ways they might think it will only abreviate the game, for example.
They might want to keep players from ccreating useless PSN accounts or are trying to keep people from using bandwith; it's just an assumption.

The matter of the fact is that there's been an action (duping) and a reaction (restriction of trading) that happened. We can only speculate as to how they are exactly related, but that's not the point; the point is: No duping, no restriction. We would have seen a restriction before the savegame became unrestricted, otherwise.

Now ignoring that, it takes all of about 5 seconds to think of a better "solution" to duping.
You're not expecting PD to do the logical thing, do you? I mean, they made so many strange decision that you can't be suprised that this one isn't exactly the best one.

- Provide unlock all button, and prevent people who use it from trading.
This, for example, won't work with the longevity of the GTLife mode. PD went to the lengths of implimenting the leveling system to elongate it, so what's the point of shortening it like that?
I'm not saying that I like it, I'm not saying that it's the right thing, I'm not saying that it's what a simulator should do, I'm not saying it's what a good game would do, but it would take some of the most important incentives out of the single player mode.

-Create easily obtainable replica cars, people who spend 20,000,000 cr get the real Mark IV, while other people can buy a Mark IV replica from the GT dealership. The real cars can't be traded, replicas can.
And people would start complaining that they're stuck with replicas while only 'no lifers' (or any other condescending/insulting term) would get the real deal.

The thing is dupe 1 car or 1,000,000, there are no side effects to let anyone know. It's more like drinking water. No one cares how much you drink because it doesn't make the slightest difference. The exception being people who are obsessed with stuff for no reason.
Well, if you, for example would've been only able to, say, restore your gamesave once a week, the devaluation of the cars (and thus, the downfall of trading) would have taken a lot longer, if it would've happened at all.
The amount of traffic created for the PSN servers would probably have been much lower. The amount of PS accounts created would've been much smaller.

There must have been a reason why PD restricted trading. Probably not a very logical one. Maybe not the one I am thinking of, probably not the one you're thinking of, but if there would've been less of whatever reason, they probably wouldn't have had to work on a fix (even if it's a bad one). That's where the alcohol analogy came from.
It even fits in the regard that, while drunk, you didn't even notice that what you did offended them...


Now, what makes me kind of curious is this: Why is it that people try so hard to come up with a reason as to why it's not the dupers fault that duping/trading was restricted?
 
Additionally, having everything can also cause boredom because there's nothing left to look forwards to.
Only if the game is fundamentally terrible and not worth playing. GT4 was the only GT game I gave up on before the next one (GT5P) was released. It was because it was horribly frustrating to need to earn money to buy new cars over and over. At one point I saved up 10,000,000 or so, but it went down faster than it went up and I got sick of it, because the game was designed in such a way that it put earning credits over having fun.

They should change A-Spec to the point that acquiring cars becomes fun and restrict duping at the same time. Simple, one would think, but this is PD we're talking about.

I think the whole idea of unlocking needs to go. Keep it and fix it for those who love it, but it is the furthest thing from necessary. As for your comment on PD, that's my point. If they do not act reasonably, you can't blame anyone but them. If you're implying that PD will by default, defy common sense, then it's impossible to say that dupers played a role in bringing the trade limit about. PD is PD, and they'll just do what they want without reason.

Obviously, PD thought it was a problem. They wouldn't have taken action otherwise. And, as I said before, it isn't necessarily to 'protect' someone from the effects of duping.
In fact, I think they don't give a crap about, say, the trading going downhill. They killed themselves. But, as I pointed out, in their weird ways they might think it will only abreviate the game, for example.
They might want to keep players from ccreating useless PSN accounts or are trying to keep people from using bandwith; it's just an assumption.
Another problem, we're left to assume their reasoning because they say nothing to us. 1.07 wasn't even announced. As for the problems you listed, there are just better solutions, like the ones I suggested before. I also wonder why Sony never did anything about all the accounts I and other people made before GT5 anyway. I'm not talking about a couple, I probably made a dozen before GT5, and I know people who would frequently change PSN's because they can't change their PSN name. It's all the same. Why does it only matter now?

On bandwith, the same number of accounts are active always. A Duper can only use one account at once, maybe 2. This isn't really a big issue.

The matter of the fact is that there's been an action (duping) and a reaction (restriction of trading) that happened. We can only speculate as to how they are exactly related, but that's not the point; the point is: No duping, no restriction. We would have seen a restriction before the savegame became unrestricted, otherwise.
A bit of a contradiction. We don't even know if the restriction was done in reaction to duping. I used the term 'protect people from duping' before because duping is one of the hot topics associated with 1.07 on GTP.

You're not expecting PD to do the logical thing, do you? I mean, they made so many strange decision that you can't be suprised that this one isn't exactly the best one.
If this is true, then there is no logic behind their 1.07 decision, so you can't blame dupers.
This, for example, won't work with the longevity of the GTLife mode. PD went to the lengths of implimenting the leveling system to elongate it, so what's the point of shortening it like that?
But they made seasonal events and now bumped up XP to something like 3 times as much.

but it would take some of the most important incentives out of the single player mode.
A-Spec needs an incentive before it can lose one. PD's job is to make a game that sells. That loosely implies that the game should be good, and you make a game good by satisfying the people who want to buy the game.

Yes PD has our GT5 money, but they might want our GT5 DLC money, and they certainly want our GT6 money. They can't drop GT5, even if the only thing that drives them turns out to be profit. If they want to maximize profit, they pretty much have an obligation to make fans happy.

And people would start complaining that they're stuck with replicas while only 'no lifers' (or any other condescending/insulting term) would get the real deal.
Maybe, but I doubt it. I could not care about something so trivial, and it seems like the only people who would care are the ones who oppose duping. Dupers don't care about rarity and find intrinsic value in the game. They don't need a reward to keep playing. If anything, everyone probably wants the replica idea. Dupers would get to play the game in full. Achievers would get to grind Indy for an exclusive prize. Everyone wins.

Well, if you, for example would've been only able to, say, restore your gamesave once a week, the devaluation of the cars (and thus, the downfall of trading) would have taken a lot longer, if it would've happened at all.
The amount of traffic created for the PSN servers would probably have been much lower. The amount of PS accounts created would've been much smaller.
If duping was confined to GTP/fan sites for the most part, it probably had virtually no effect on the servers. Given that 99% of the time when I brought a X1 or Mark IV [before it starts, neither duped, and they're no more valuable than duped cars] into a room, all I got were oohs and ahs, I'd bet it didn't get to the mainstream players. But I could be wrong.

There must have been a reason why PD restricted trading. Probably not a very logical one. Maybe not the one I am thinking of, probably not the one you're thinking of, but if there would've been less of whatever reason, they probably wouldn't have had to work on a fix (even if it's a bad one). That's where the alcohol analogy came from.

But then, you can only blame PD. We don't know what the reason is, and if the reason wasn't logical, then it's all PD's fault for not being logical.

Now, what makes me kind of curious is this: Why is it that people try so hard to come up with a reason as to why it's not the dupers fault that duping/trading was restricted?

It's not hard at all. The only thing I've ever had to do to argue against decisions in GT5 was use common sense.

I participate in duping arguments because they're common, and they are true debates, unlike threads such as "What's your favorite car?". I don't care if they are futile, I enjoy the debate, not just winning the debate.

I defend duping because I'd love to see devs wake up and realize that mandatory unlocks are a terrible idea and that they should try to make games good. I also hate the ridiculous notion that there is a "right" way to do things, and that games = real life so that dupers are all bank robbers, yadayada - especially because some people probably carry this attitude over to real life and like to call things that they disagree with wrong out of ignornace and using tradition over reason.
 
i don't like the restriction. why do so many on here even care how anyone else plays a video game that they purchased with their own money? if you are playing online and someone cheats that is one thing . but , so many on here get off on trying to control how someone else plays A VIDEO GAME. come on it is just a video game , everyone should be able to play however they enjoy playing. play your game , have fun , enjoy. peace out.
 
To the people that dont like the update:

Take a strike against the game, stop playing it until they reverse the update. More people dislike the new update the like it. So instead of bitching about it, do something. Everyone should email PD, send a letter in, call, harass them until its changed, and tell them your going to play forza. If GT5 keeps up this shanagins then I am leaving PS3 for Xbox.

To people selling the cars on Ebay, your account should be console banned! And Sony should be catching these people.
 
Now, what makes me kind of curious is this: Why is it that people try so hard to come up with a reason as to why it's not the dupers fault that duping/trading was restricted?

So pd made the game and in the game was this possibility of duping which has now gone on for 4 months and finally pd decides to do something (bad) about it? It's been known by everyone for ages so to speak.

It's not the dupers' fault. Pd can once again blame only itself for

a) providing a game mechanic that allows "free money" easily simply because of bad design

b) not fixing the known "problem" for 4 months. Not even letting anyone know it is a problem and why it is.

c) not even publicly acknowledge it is a problem that is going to be fixed

d) almost totally screw over people who lended (or were in process of trading) their expensive cars to other persons by a surprise update that made it impossible for these people to get their cars back

e) making such an awful job on fixing the problem that it basically kills trading of any valuable cars. Only value a car has in trading now is its rareness in ucd. Basically that means trading only ugly looking cheap standard cars.

g) The 20 million credits limit makes the problem 20 millions times worse.

h) The game was also shipped by this stupid birthday car duping feature. Pd has had literally 4 months to disable gifting of bd cars but instead they want to kill all trading of above 1 mill valued cars.

i) Killing the trading now of high valued gives everyone who has used the duping a massive headstart into the game (offline and especially online) because they have had all the time to get all the cars they have wanted for basically at no cost. New players are in for even bigger grind fest and car collecting is no more about car collecting. It is more about grinding than it even was before. Luckily rubberbands are cheap.

j) the used car slot suffers a TON. Now you need to be about 1 millions times luckier than ever before to find the car you want and having the money to pay it.

k) and you still can get any car you want. Just get your credits to 20mill or so and make a backup of your save. Start a game, buy a car and drive it. Then stop the game and copy back your old save game. Car gone, money back.

l) not provide a trading feature. People want to trade cars for crying out loud. Part of gt is car collecting and being able to trade cars added a nice community aspect to gt5.

m) good luck trying to find a historic car for the historic car challenge!

Yeah, the dupers are the problem:
a) created few psn extra accounts
b) ehm sent too much data over internets...?
 
I hate it. Period. I trade because others have what I want and I have what others want. Some cars that cost more than 1 million I have never seen at all in the UCD (ex. '63 Corvette Race car) or only when I was starting out (McLaren F1 GTR Race car) and am unable to get them otherwise. What's next? We can only drive Miatas or something? It's really starting to irritate me.
 
NOTICE;

guys i havent read the whole thread as its 38 pages long, i see no mention of it in the last few pages so i will point it ouy....

it seams you have missed a trick, you cant send 'GIFT TICKETS' worth over 1 mill, i took this as meaning bday tickets and gift tickets for reaching landmarks,

so i bought a ferrari sp1 which costs 1.5 million credits and sent it to my other account, it worked, i then sent it back but it wouldnt allow me to send it back untill the following day,

so has this been mentioned in the thread?
 
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