Presidential Election: 2012

  • Thread starter Omnis
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livemusic
Did you guys check the GOP debate on FOX last night? I didn't know Gary Johnson, seems like he would be a good VP for Ron Paul.
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there are better libertarian-minded individuals whom I would prefer as VP for Paul e.g. Lew Rockwell, Gary North, Peter Schiff, Walter Block, Walter Williams, even the Judge Napolitano(though I could see Paul nominating him for the SCOTUS).
 
ALP1986
the shocking thing is that she seems a sensible option when compared to Bachmann, Perry, Cain, and Santorum. I mean serious America wtf!
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Remember this is just the republican party, the group of people that denounces science, booed a gay soldier, and then applauded the death penalty and the unnecessary death of a 30 year old man. This group of morally destitute people only accounts for 1/3 of the population. :D
FoolKiller
And that was all I needed.
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Obviously not, because you are wrong.
 
ALP1986
the shocking thing is that she seems a sensible option when compared to Bachmann, Perry, Cain, and Santorum. I mean serious America wtf!
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Too bad the people that actually make sense and aren't puppets don't get any talk on the GOP end. I guess their too middle of the road and not enough gop.
 
Dapper
Remember this is just the republican party, the group of people that denounces science, booed a gay soldier, and then applauded the death penalty and the unnecessary death of a 30 year old man. This group of morally destitute people only accounts for 1/3 of the population.
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Not sure what side you are, so I'm guessing your middle of the road. The problem is their is a bigger group of people that don't go with any party and vote based on what the news says. So you take what you've said and it comes to 2/3s or more and that's how one side or the other wins. Also backed by hate or dislike rather for the current president and their party and well that's how the otherside wins. Thus it goes back and forth. However, if the media plays up attacks on the other side like they did to Kerry during Bush second term, or republicans right now whether or not it's called for allows the current side to stay in. Too many forces with too much power, and too many people not willing to do research on who should actually be president.
 
Dapper
Obviously not, because you are wrong.
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Moore, OK has more than one mega-church? Jeebus.

As I originally said, links would be awesome. I asked for links, you didn't give them.


But hey, maybe you think this isn't really that important. I agree, so what about the rest of my post that you just ignored? I know I didn't leave much of a window for cheap one-sided shots at Republicans, but that is getting to be your modus operandi, so I was bored with letting it fly.
 
livemusic
Did you guys check the GOP debate on FOX last night? I didn't know Gary Johnson, seems like he would be a good VP for Ron Paul.
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Yeah, Johnson doesn't have the support because Ron Paul is in the race. Lol. Johnson is more of a libertarian than Paul is though. I'm not sure how entrenched he is in the same kind of foreign policy views as RP. He's also RP's foil for everything the super lefty pinkos hate about RP-- namely abortion and leaving these kinds of controversial issues to the states.
 
I can't believe people were criticizing Obama's plan, because it was put together with nothing but a bulldog clip.

I swear, some Republicans are just such massive idiots. Yes, i'm looking at you, Murdoch Empire.
 
Peter.
I can't believe people were criticizing Obama's plan, because it was put together with nothing but a bulldog clip.

I swear, some Republicans are just such massive idiots. Yes, i'm looking at you, Murdoch Empire.
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Which plan? Maybe linking to whatever you are talking about would be nice.
 
Peter.
I can't believe people were criticizing Obama's plan, because it was put together with nothing but a bulldog clip.

I swear, some Republicans are just such massive idiots. Yes, i'm looking at you, Murdoch Empire.
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Well seeing as it was not just Murdoch but a group of Europeans employed by him that also followed through, it makes them no better. Also there are other news outlets to go to great length like Murodoch's to do the same thing he did (maybe not the exact extent). Also do you actually live in this nation or are you getting feeds from outside news? There are some good republicans not all of them are what you see CNN international label them, but how can you learn about the others when all America broadcasts internationally is the "great Perry Vs Romney". Obama isn't that great I don't know why you think he is but some examples would go a loooooooooong way.
 
Obama's brilliant plan? Tax the rich, form super committee to slam it through. That won't create any jobs or balance the budget but it might shore his voter base.

It would be great if the dems held a primary, I'd like to see Kucinich give him a run. lol
 
FoolKiller
I agree, so what about the rest of my post that you just ignored? I know I didn't leave much of a window for cheap one-sided shots at Republicans, but that is getting to be your modus operandi, so I was bored with letting it fly.
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I addressed all of your concerns with my evidence of how morally deprived ALL of the not only republican candidates, but all republicans. I don't mean to say 1/3 of the country are bad people, but their belief system is not in line with mine and the majority of the civilized world.

Please don't take this, as you incessantly do, as me being a pro democrat... Socialism ftw! :D

About the "tax the rich" comments, please preface those comments with the tax rates for the rich are at a historical low and none of the debt problems occurred until the historically low tax rates for the rich were implemented. And then mention that "job creators" is a bs excuse, then post a link to Bill Maher's skit on how Americans vote against their interest and that "The Situation" from Jersey Shore is a "job creator." :lol: Thanks in advance.:)
 
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Dapper
...but their belief system is not in line with mine and the majority of the civilized world.
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You've provided plenty of evidence to all of us, most recently your ignoring of my post about morality, that your beliefs don't really line up with anything, just like the majority of the civilized world. Just because there's more of them doesn't mean they're the smartest bunch.

About the "tax the rich" comments, please preface those comments with the tax rates for the rich are at a historical low and none of the debt problems occurred until the historically low tax rates for the rich were implemented. And then mention that "job creators" is a bs excuse, then post a link to Bill Maher's skit on how Americans vote against their interest and that "The Situation" from Jersey Shore is a "job creator." :lol: Thanks in advance.:)
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I found the videos, but I'm not going to post them until your lazy ass stops making everybody else do the digging for you. You never link, you never post, you never share, you never back up anything you and you make others go on the hunt. And you wonder why some of us have such little patience for your arguments.

All I'll say is that Bill Maher has indeed created jobs despite what he thinks of himself. All the people that work to produce his show - they wouldn't be working to produce his show unless he was there to make it happen, and he is, and therefore they're all working to produce his show.
 
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Keef
I found the videos, but I'm not going to post them until your lazy ass stops making everybody else do the digging for you. You never link, you never post, you never share, you never back up anything you and you make others go on the hunt. And you wonder why some of us have such little patience for your arguments.
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Lazy ass!? That's our resident republican! :lol: And Real Time with Bill Maher is the job creator, not the actual host. Just like Jersey Shore is the job creator, not the d-bags on the show.

@arora- When has Obama said taxing the rich will hinder job creation? He advocates for a 3% increase in tax rates for the "job creators" so I don't get what you mean.
 
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Dapper
Lazy ass!? That's our resident republican! :lol: And Real Time with Bill Maher is the job creator, not the actual host. Just like Jersey Shore is the job creator, not the d-bags on the show.
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Real Time...with who? With Bill Maher. He is the reason his show exists. As for Jersey Shore, the stars of the show have entire groups of support people that follow them to every event they go to. Clothers, makeup artists, secretaries, maids, kids running errands for them. Famous people create jobs that serve them, because they can afford to do that. Any rich person who has a personal maid or chef has created that job because they can afford to. If that person weren't rich, there would be one fewer personal chef employed in the world.

Usually I'm a libertarian, but I turn republican when I get tired of arguing with people.
 
Dapper
I addressed all of your concerns with my evidence of how morally deprived ALL of the not only republican candidates, but all republicans. I don't mean to say 1/3 of the country are bad people, but their belief system is not in line with mine and the majority of the civilized world.

Please don't take this, as you incessantly do, as me being a pro democrat... Socialism ftw! :D
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You addressed this:
FoolKiller
But those are for poor people. You know, the ones that can't help it. The example was a guy with a good job who just chose to not be covered. We are talking about someone who would get none of the programs you just mentioned (I recognize Goodwill is a charity..oh wait...and not a program, but this gentleman in question could be assumed to be like everyone in his situation and not shop at Goodwill, unless he's a hipster, but then if a hipster dies and nobody cares does it matter?).


There goes your single-minded, blame whatever named group I can find mentality again. You act like you don't realize that Democrats were in control of most branches of government for the majority of the last 60 years.

http://uspolitics.about.com/od/usgovernment/l/bl_party_division_2.htm

Here is my question to you, if Republicans and their capitalist ways are the problem then explain why a bank bailout was done under the Democratically controlled Congress, why the then Senator and now President Democrat Obama voted for it. Explain how the stimulus package pushed through by a Democratic president and Congress had all sorts of backroom deals to businesses which had ties to the Democrat President Obama. Or explain how it is that the head of GE, who found a way to not pay billions in corporate taxes, and in fact received billion in tax benefits, and king of outsourcing, has been appointed to head the Democrat President Obama's Council on Jobs and Competitiveness after using a program that a Democrat controlled Congress, and voted on by then Democrat Senator Obama, and supported by now Democrat President Obama, to shut down factories in the US and send all the jobs overseas.

Drop the party rhetoric. Democrats and Republicans are both rotten pieces of dog poo that has dried to a white crustiness, got eaten by another dog, and puked back up. Plain and simple, there is nothing you can say about Republicans that isn't also true about Democrats.

I don't see how people fail to see that, but people cheer on their party of choice with more ignorant blindness than sports fans. "YAY! GO CORRUPTION, CHEATING, AND LIES! GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO TEAM!"
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When? Where? Why not address that all the problems that you blame on Republicans happened more often with Democrats in control.

Why not address that Obama is in bed with more of these capitalists than the Republicans you blame for allowing capitalists to get too huge?

About the "tax the rich" comments, please preface those comments with the tax rates for the rich are at a historical low and none of the debt problems occurred until the historically low tax rates for the rich were implemented.
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They also didn't exist before we made it so that half the population didn't pay taxes. That would be the lower income half.

And then mention that "job creators" is a bs excuse, then post a link to Bill Maher's skit on how Americans vote against their interest and that "The Situation" from Jersey Shore is a "job creator." :lol: Thanks in advance.:)
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Bill Maher hosts a show which employs hundreds of people, and is funded by the rich guys at HBO. Bill Maher also spends his money somewhere on something. When he buys a car he helps employ thousands of people, when he bought his house he helped employ thousands of people. See, the simple act of buying a pencil helps to employee thousands of people from miners and loggers to factory workers. That is how the economy works. The people who make the most spend the most and thus help to employ the most.

Whether Bill Maher, and you, wish to admit it he is brilliant at what he does and is a successful producer through hard work. He didn't get to where he is by just expecting the government to take care of him. If he is not responsible for the jobs of people then he must believe that if he never hosted that show or walked away now that the show would still exist with the same fan base and level of talent.

But going beyond the fact that the show exists because of his talent: He is also a head writer and an executive producer. Bill Maher wants to claim he doesn't create jobs? He is one of the main financial backers of the show. He is directly responsible for the money that pays the salaries of the employees of the jobs. If Bill Maher denies that then he is lying, either via the show credits or in his comments.
 
Read Obama's "fully paid" job creation plan, then read his deficit reduction plan. You should conclude he thinks taxing the rich creates jobs. I say it won't work.
 
FoolKiller
When? Where? Why not address that all the problems that you blame on Republicans happened more often with Democrats in control.

Why not address that Obama is in bed with more of these capitalists than the Republicans you blame for allowing capitalists to get too huge?


They also didn't exist before we made it so that half the population didn't pay taxes. That would be the lower income half.
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Republican ideology is why the wealth distribution is so wrong in America, stop reading that as the democrats are not guilty of anything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:United_States_Income_Distribution_1947-2007.svg

Since lower taxes for the top bracket of incomes the gap of wealth has been rising in a disproportional way.
 
"Deregulation." You mean taking away all market controls and vesting it all to a small group of people?

I don't play party politics-- sorry. The issues of today are much bigger than the R vs. D games that you're into.
 
On the federal reserve:

Paul calls it unconstitutional, Perry cries treason, Obama tries to expand it's powers.

Utah is doing something of interest though ;)
 
Omnis
"Deregulation." You mean taking away all market controls and vesting it all to a small group of people?

I don't play party politics-- sorry. The issues of today are much bigger than the R vs. D games that you're into.
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Let's pretend I've never said the word republican. The fact is the lower taxes and less regulation that occurred in the early 80's has lead to the wealth of America's growing GDP to be spread more towards the top 1-5%. This is objective, empirical evidence that can't logically be argued. I've posted graphs that show this. All anyone that wants the truth has to do is look for themselves. This is opposed to listening to a politician who says the opposite of what the facts are.

Until 1980 every income bracket was growing proportionally, each group doubled their income over a 30 year period prior to 1980. Once lower taxes gave the top income earners more money, and lower regulations let them manipulate the financial system, the bottom half of the country's incomes almost stopped growing. But did the people on top have slower growth rates? Of course not. The economy still grows and now, after the lower taxes and less regulation that has occurred, all that wealth that is being produced now compared to 1980 is going to only a small percentage of people.

Now, I will remind everyone that lower taxes and less regulation/government intervention is basic republican ideology. This has nothing to do with "party politics," but it has everything to do with why the middle class is shrinking, there are less tax payers, and the reason why the American economy is continually growing and most Americans have nothing to show for it.
 
Dapper
Let's pretend I've never said the word republican. The fact is the lower taxes and less regulation that occurred in the early 80's has lead to the wealth of America's growing GDP to be spread more towards the top 1-5%. This is objective, empirical evidence that can't logically be argued. I've posted graphs that show this. All anyone that wants the truth has to do is look for themselves. This is opposed to listening to a politician who says the opposite of what the facts are.

Until 1980 every income bracket was growing proportionally, each group doubled their income over a 30 year period prior to 1980. Once lower taxes gave the top income earners more money, and lower regulations let them manipulate the financial system, the bottom half of the country's incomes almost stopped growing. But did the people on top have slower growth rates? Of course not. The economy still grows and now, after the lower taxes and less regulation that has occurred, all that wealth that is being produced now compared to 1980 is going to only a small percentage of people.

Now, I will remind everyone that lower taxes and less regulation/government intervention is basic republican ideology. This has nothing to do with "party politics," but it has everything to do with why the middle class is shrinking, there are less tax payers, and the reason why the American economy is continually growing and most Americans have nothing to show for it.
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Sorry, that doesn't make any sense. You're going to have to explain it better. I can see how the maximum earners might start earning more than ever (and this is a good thing). But if someone is upwardly mobile and goes from minimum wage to middle class and some kid takes their place at the taco bell, this means that nothing changed for them right? Even though in actuality the minimum wage earner is doing well for himself.

You're going to have to go into WAY more detail before this starts adding up. You make about 5 claims that can't even be fully understood from your explanation and then draw conclusions that seem unsupported at best.
 

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