Presidential Election: 2012

[Joel]

I am right. In Koran it teaches hate in part and to destroy Israel.

Yes you are hypocritical and a jerk in what u said. I'm fed up with all the bull **** from u guys. I'm in a bad mood and now am going off. I know I'm not doing good but oh well.

The Qu'ran does not tell Muslims to destroy Israel. The Qu'ran teaches Muslims to be kind and courteous to those of other faiths, unless that person seeks to deny their faith. Please, if you take anything from this conversation, do some research on Islam.

"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven."

Practice what you preach.

 

[Azuremen]

I am right. In Koran it teaches hate in part and to destroy Israel.

You honestly are beyond ignorant if you think this. Stop listening to whomever is teaching you this because they are so wrong it isn't even funny. Islam is historically more tolerant than most Christian histories, well into the 18th century.

Israel didn't EVEN exist when the Quran was written, and it regards Jesus as a Prophet and acknowledges the same God.

And in response to your more recent post, I am pretty sure the Aryan Nations, KKK, and Westboro Baptist Church all hate people, and I know the first two have basically committed domestic Terrorism in the name of Christianity. Do not confuse all of Islam for Islamic Extremists, which are driven as much by politics as religion.

 

[Joel]

Then why is it only Muslims are the terrorists and people were after? Muslims are taught to hate Jews and Israel. Thats hezbolah and all the others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence_in_the_United_States

Israel didn't EVEN exist when the Quran was written, and it regards Jesus as a Prophet and acknowledges the same God.

Don't waste your time. I tried this on the last page, and still, Islam apparently still wants to destroy Israel...or something.

 

[-Cheezman-]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence_in_the_United_States

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Holocaust_Memorial_Museum_shooting

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Austin_plane_crash

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_George_Tiller

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Tucson_shooting

 

[Tornado]

I am right. In Koran it teaches hate in part and to destroy Israel.

Has it been rewritten since 1948 and no one said anything?

 

[buggs1a]

Sorry guys. I'm just tired and in a bad,mood. Plus,I don't know much about what I'm saying. Only what I've heard and seen. And when there's so much the same that's what I know.

Sorry. And please no more back and forth. I give.

 

[Joel]

Sorry guys. I'm just tired and in a bad,mood. Plus,I don't know much about what I'm saying. Only what I've heard and seen. And when there's so much the same that's what I know.

Sorry. And please no more back and forth. I give.

I didn't mean to argue for argument's sake, but I'd really like it if more people did some research on Islam. I'm not an expert by any means, I really only have a basic grasp of the key concepts, but it's important to know, especially considering Islam is the second largest (will probably be the largest soon) religion in the world. The terrorists you see on TV are a minority of a minority of a minority, and every religion has its whack jobs and crazies. Just like the KKK don't represent the views of the average Christian, Islamic terrorists don't represent the views of the average Muslim. Most of these terrorist groups are more politically motivated than anything, and there's various other causes for that too.

And personally, when I pointed out the extremist Christian groups (KKK, WBC, etc etc.), I wasn't trying to say that Christians are evil killers, I was merely pointing out that there are whack job Christians, just like there's crazy whack job Muslims.

 

[buggs1a]

In my opinion kkk are not Christians. To be Christian, true Christian is that you believe in Jesus and who he is, that he died for you and rose on the third day. You confession, admit, that you sin, and you ask him to save you, come into your heart. If one does that sincerely then that person becomes a Christian and child of god. That person receives gods spirit, holy spirit and is going to have eternal life in Havana with him. The holy spirit will then reveal to you everything you need and will people himself to you and help you in life.

I don't think, my opinion. That kkk are true Christians. I don't know anyone's status with god as only god knows. But kkk is bad.

All I hear about Islam is terrorists and anti Jew as hezbolah and all those people are over there. And Hal lindsey has even quoted the quran and read from it. And it wasn't nice. I have read some of the book, but not much.

I choose not to learn about Islam or any other. I only want to know of my lord Jesus Christ.

Anyway I don't mean bad and I'm truly sorry for calling the guy a jerk and having a bad attitude, truly please forgive me,please.
I have anger issues and am far from perfect. I am sorry to all for my arguing and wrong behaviour. This is why I prefer to stay out of debates and threads like this. But sometimes I have a hard time staying away.

Please forgive me.

 

[Joel]

I'm not saying you should convert to Islam, but it's interesting to read about what other people believe. Do some digging, and I promise that most of that stuff isn't true.

Think about the KKK for a minute, and how you don't consider them to be true Christians. Most Muslims would think the same about the Taliban, for example. Both the KKK and the Taliban aren't really what most Christians or Muslims really believe.

Also, one last thing. Muslims believe Jesus was one of the greatest men to ever walk the Earth. He was a direct prophet of God, not the son of God as Christians believe, but Muslims still believe he was a very great man.

 

[Omnis]

I think I'm going to clean this up when I get home. All of this deserves its own thread, don't you guys think?

 

[buggs1a]

You a mod?
I agree and am sorry to be off topic.
You can probably delete the last few pages

 

[Omnis]

No way will I delete it. This is a very important discussion.

 

[Joel]

I think I'm going to clean this up when I get home. All of this deserves its own thread, don't you guys think?

I think this is a really great discussion, and certainly needs its own thread. As far as I'm concerned, people who think Islam is just a bunch of crazy wackos hiding out in caves waiting to bomb Israel are just as ridiculous as the few wackos themselves. But you're right, we've left the 2012 election behind a few pages back.

 

[buggs1a]

Omniscient, I don't think its important. I only mean cus for me I feel bad and angry. I don't see as important in that theres bad and hard negative feelings in me and this feels or I feel like I'm just arguing and fighting and I'm right and everyone else is wrong about certain stuff. That's me not anything others have done.

Here's an example of what I mean. Please don't feel negative to me. I don't intend to be better then anyone or put anyone down.

I'm right about how god is real and Islam is bad and how what god says is truth and Islam is lies and not good in ways. I get angry when people disagree and think, man people are so stupid if they choose death and hell or they can believe in a god who loves them and wants to save them and,bless them. People are given a choice of life or death and they choose death.

And from all I hear about Islam I hate them. I hate them all because of the few that give them a bad name and how it is those who are attacking Israel and are according to their beliefs against Jews and Israel and infidels.

That's my honest opinion of everything Muslim and Christian and people who don't believe in Jesus. I should not hate and I should love, not judge and not do or say what I have. I'm an angry bitter person who has a hard time controlling my emotions.

If people wanna hate me or dislike me or put me down etc now then so be it. I've said more then I should and even want to. But this is why I said to delete the last few pages.

Ok,I'm not sure I think people are stupid but I think the choice they make is stupid, not believing in Jesus. I'm just not good at expressing myself, sorry.

Ok I'm outta here to hide now.

 

[Dapper]

This is at least relative to politics.

 

[McLaren]

I'm right about how god is real and Islam is bad and how what god says is truth and Islam is lies and not good in ways. I get angry when people disagree and think, man people are so stupid if they choose death and hell or they can believe in a god who loves them and wants to save them and,bless them. People are given a choice of life or death and they choose death.

No, you are not right. You are wrong. You listen to only specific passage from the Quran.

You are no better than the Westboro Church who says, "God hates fags" & use only 1 specific part of the Bible to back their assumption.

And from all I hear about Islam I hate them. I hate them all because of the few that give them a bad name and how it is those who are attacking Israel and are according to their beliefs against Jews and Israel and infidels.

And I hate Christians. How dare they protest at military funerals, gays, & call 9/11 justice for our sins?

See what I did there?

That's my honest opinion of everything Muslim and Christian and people who don't believe in Jesus. I should not hate and I should love, not judge and not do or say what I have. I'm an angry bitter person who has a hard time controlling my emotions.

Your opinion is based on false media.

Ok,I'm not sure I think people are stupid but I think the choice they make is stupid, not believing in Jesus. I'm just not good at expressing myself, sorry.

Why is my decision not to believe in Jesus stupid?
What keeps me from saying your decision is stupid to not believe in Buddhism?

BTW, you probably don't realize the fact that nearly every major religion in the world recognizes Jesus as a spiritually enlightened person in some form or another....It's what he was capable of & what he specifically taught that differs.

 

[Joel]

We've already been over this, the few Muslims you hear about in the news are the couple crazy psychos in a religion of over a billion people. The way you feel about the KKK is exactly how most Muslims feel. And for the third time, Muslims think Jesus existed, they think he was one of the greatest men to ever live, and think he spoke the word of God. They even think he's going to usher in judgement day for Allah.

I'm not going to debate your point about you being right about God and Islam, because you're dead wrong about Islam, and you're not going to change your opinion about God and the afterlife. I don't think God's real, and I don't consider myself stupid for having that belief.

I really just wish you would do some research about Islam. Nobody's asking you to convert, and don't think I'm an Imam or something (I'm an atheist). I just think you should read into Islam a little deeper, because everything you've heard is wrong. In a sense, Muslims are your spiritual allies, you all believe in the same God, believe in most of the same prophets and stories (Noah's Ark, Moses, Adam and Eve, etc etc.). I think you'd find that Islam is a much more peaceful religion than you know, and there are many similarities with Christianity.

And as McLaren alluded to, a person of a different faith or without religion could just as easily say they hate Christians because of the Westboro Baptist Church or the KKK. But we don't, because we're smart enough to do some digging, and figure out for ourselves that most Christians aren't like the WBC or KKK.


The KKK is to Christianity, as the Taliban is to Islam.

 

[buggs1a]

Oh.

 

[Pupik]

Like they took god out of school...[yo wuzza wuzza on and on...]

What are you, 60?...we took God out of school almost 50 years ago. Wake up and smell the late-1980s for starters, since the present might be a bit of trouble for you, until all that the ice melts away from your skin.

Time out for you from this thread, it's about the Presidential Election, so talk about God and Religion and Thighmasters in their respective threads, or face GTP's wrath, buggs1a. This isn't "Let's bitch about everything in the universe in one place thread", just because the President is a little preoccupied with 300,000,000 others right now to take your call. Start with one post per day if you're so tired.

Oh, and read the underlined part:

For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

How easily forgotten since it is as equally important as the very popular passage above it.

 

[BobK]

Then why is it only Muslims are the terrorists and people were after?

Wow. I didn't know the IRA was a Muslim organization. Thanks for correcting me on that.

 

[Keef]

Ok I'm outta here to hide now.

I've heard that one before.

Wow. I didn't know the IRA was a Muslim organization. Thanks for correcting me on that.

Everybody likes potatoes, man.

 

[FoolKiller]

I say we back off the religion debating. It started out as presidential talk, but drifted way off topic. Omnis said he may move it to a new thread, so I will wait for that, or maybe we should move over to some of the other already existing religion-based topics. I would think a Religion in Politics thread could be a neat discussion, but it won't stay there. But, I have found that religion devoted topics draw out the worst people on both sides of the issue and intelligent debate becomes hard without someone who is misinformed either way jumping in and getting close to making personal attacks. So, I don't know, but we should back off that one in here.

This is at least relative to politics.
[Bill Maher video]

Oddly, he describes Socialism as a a list of things government would do that it is not given permission to do via the Constitution. The scary part is that he and people who think like him, don't stop and ask if the government has that power, or why it was not granted that power.

All the things he listed should be state issues.

And that is the other thing. When people wish to adhere to the Constitution they do not necessarily mean it should never be allowed to happen anywhere. The education discussion on the federal level should be done when you mention its legality. On a state level is where the ideological debate should take place, assuming the state constitution of that state allows it.

Now, I know that it does seem as if the Constitutionalists wish to act as if the US Constitution counts for the local levels as well, but I feel the 10th Amendment explained that point.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

That seems clear to me that if it is not a listed power of the federal government it is a state power, unless noted. If it isn't already understood, this amendment makes it clear that this is a Constitution for federal government. States have their own Constitutions that cover the issues outside the ones listed on the federal level.

There are so many issues that fall into this category, yet they have entire departments devoted to them within the federal government. How much budget could be saved if we determined the existence of these departments by this rule?

 

[buggs1a]

Agreed foot.
And again I'm sorry to all. I take things personally

 

[Keef]

States' powers

I must be having a brain fart here. The Federal Constitution says what it says and most powers belong to the States and People, etc.

But what if a state's constitution allows socialist policies? I honestly don't even know what Ohio's constitution says, though I imagine they're all based on the Federal one. Except that they're not bound to it? So if they weren't necessarily based on the Constitution, California could have whatever sort of socialist, fascist government it wanted.

After we tackle the Federal issue and get its powers all straightened out, don't we have to focus on the states? Surely their constitutions are just as messed up by now. I guess I'm just not seeing what the difference is between education being a Federal or State issue - either way, it's still controlled by the government, and either way there are still localities within the country (states) or state (counties) or counties (cities etc.) that may think differently than the next one.

Who says education should be a government function at all? I think every little aspect of it should be privatized.

/brain fart

 

[Tbear]

Gobama, you are the man!

 

[FoolKiller]

I must be having a brain fart here. The Federal Constitution says what it says and most powers belong to the States and People, etc.

But what if a state's constitution allows socialist policies? I honestly don't even know what Ohio's constitution says, though I imagine they're all based on the Federal one. Except that they're not bound to it? So if they weren't necessarily based on the Constitution, California could have whatever sort of socialist, fascist government it wanted.

After we tackle the Federal issue and get its powers all straightened out, don't we have to focus on the states? Surely their constitutions are just as messed up by now. I guess I'm just not seeing what the difference is between education being a Federal or State issue - either way, it's still controlled by the government, and either way there are still localities within the country (states) or state (counties) or counties (cities etc.) that may think differently than the next one.

Who says education should be a government function at all? I think every little aspect of it should be privatized.

/brain fart

Are you familiar with Article I Section 10?

Here, bookmark this: http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html

State constitutions differ. The Kentucky constitution orders the General Assembly to provide funds for a common schools system, but says that the funds may only be used for maintenance and no other uses. So, they can build the buildings, pay the teachers and buy supplies, but they cannot give money that is bookmarked for a specific program. School money is very strictly forbidden from any church, sectarian, or denominational schools.

And guess which schools look very good in comparison to the public schools. The Catholic schools. Other private schools exist and do better than public too, but the Catholic schools are so blatantly removed from interference in any way that they somehow manage to devote a chunk of the day to religious teachings and still graduate kids that start college as sophomores.

 

[Keef]

Are you familiar with Article I Section 10?

Here, bookmark this: http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html

No, I wasn't familiar. But now since you've reminded me I just ordered CATO's pocket constitution. I've wanted one for a while but never got around to it.

State constitutions differ. The Kentucky constitution orders the General Assembly to provide funds for a common schools system, but says that the funds may only be used for maintenance and no other uses. So, they can build the buildings, pay the teachers and buy supplies, but they cannot give money that is bookmarked for a specific program. School money is very strictly forbidden from any church, sectarian, or denominational schools.

And guess which schools look very good in comparison to the public schools. The Catholic schools. Other private schools exist and do better than public too, but the Catholic schools are so blatantly removed from interference in any way that they somehow manage to devote a chunk of the day to religious teachings and still graduate kids that start college as sophomores.

I think the discipline professed by the Catholic schools around here can easily be seen in the personalities of people my age. While a couple of my cousins and friends may not have been the best students, they seem to be more motivated and confident than my other friends, or myself for that matter, who went to mediocre public schools. Obviously family life plays a large roll in a child's development, but then again, a family determined to send their child to a religious school seeking a better education is a different family than that satisfied by a mediocre public school. It's cheaper and easier, so that's where they go. Successful kids tend to come from successful families and attend successful schools; and the cycle continues.

Numbers and pocket books aside, personalities tend to be different whether or not they got better test scores. And of course by the time a person, like myself, reaches adulthood, it's very difficult for them to change their core values, except by some notable event. Or the military, but we've all seen how smoothly that goes.

 

[FoolKiller]

No, I wasn't familiar. But now since you've reminded me I just ordered CATO's pocket constitution. I've wanted one for a while but never got around to it.

Buy a second copy. One for your car.

Obviously family life plays a large roll in a child's development, but then again, a family determined to send their child to a religious school seeking a better education is a different family than that satisfied by a mediocre public school. It's cheaper and easier, so that's where they go. Successful kids tend to come from successful families and attend successful schools; and the cycle continues.

I know semi-poor families that get their kids in via scholarships and financial aid. I think it is less about how much you can pay up front but more about the fact that you are visibly paying out of pocket for this education and failing is the equivalent to throwing money away. You are less likely to blame the school for your child's problems when you know you have the risk of losing money if they get kicked out. $3000 (minimum around here, some cost more than my college) a semester has a way of making parents become involved.

Want to also guess who the best sports teams are in Kentucky? They had to split them into separate championship tournaments because the talent gap was so huge.

 

[Keef]

Archbishop Alter high school and Carroll high school - both Catholic - regularly dominate the Dayton area's football tournaments in particular.

Anyways, hopefully these little books will make arguing easier when I don't have an internet in front of me. I'll give one to my dad, too.

 

[Dapper]

Who says education should be a government function at all? I think every little aspect of it should be privatized.

/brain fart

Why? Do you realise the how many would have no chance at a proper education?