Prism
- Thread starter Sam48
- 250 comments
- 14,918 views
- 6,041
- Puget Sound
- Crash852
- 24,553
- Frankfort, KY
- GTP_FoolKiller
- FoolKiller1979
- 11,985
- Australia
- I_Grayson_Fox_I
You mean it has 0 according to the government.
As they do not care if it has 1,000,000 they are too stubborn to say yes were in the wrong.
- 24,553
- Frankfort, KY
- GTP_FoolKiller
- FoolKiller1979
The 100,000 threshold is the White House requirement for them to issue a response, not an action in the affirmative. It used to be much lower but they were having to respond to petitions to build a Death Star and such.
But much like the Bradley Manning petition, the response will most likely be a quick brushing aside of the ignorant masses as they progress forward doing whatever they like.
BobK
Premium
- 7,020
- Massachusetts, USA
Drifting a bit further off-topic, looking at the petition I find this:
"A whitehouse.gov account is required to sign Petitions. WHY?"
The word "why" is a hotspot and hovering over it brings up this:
This is "how", not "why". I'd like to know WHY, from them, why they need my email address. Yes I can guess and I know you can too, but I'm not looking for "probably because..." type responses. I'd like to hear their reasons why. And I'd like them to explain how come their "why" hotspot doesn't give me that "why", but rather the "how".
In a further show of bumble-headedness, the popup has two links, one to "Terms of Participation" and one to "privacy policy". But when I attempt to move the mouse to either of those links, the popup disappears before I can reach them to click on them.
This is our government in action?
Back on topic, though, I agree with FoolKiller; they will do whatever minimum is required to acknowledge it then ignore it.
"A whitehouse.gov account is required to sign Petitions. WHY?"
The word "why" is a hotspot and hovering over it brings up this:
whitehouse.gov tooltip
This is "how", not "why". I'd like to know WHY, from them, why they need my email address. Yes I can guess and I know you can too, but I'm not looking for "probably because..." type responses. I'd like to hear their reasons why. And I'd like them to explain how come their "why" hotspot doesn't give me that "why", but rather the "how".
In a further show of bumble-headedness, the popup has two links, one to "Terms of Participation" and one to "privacy policy". But when I attempt to move the mouse to either of those links, the popup disappears before I can reach them to click on them.
This is our government in action?
Back on topic, though, I agree with FoolKiller; they will do whatever minimum is required to acknowledge it then ignore it.
arora
(Banned)
- 4,098
I just tried it with the same result lol. Hey, some of us pay good tax money for such trickery. Maybe if we actually tried to make an account we could read the t.o.p. but there is very likely still no 'why' to be found.
TBH the whole thing is a sham and waste of time anyway, we don't live in a democracy and the white house takes this petition just as serious as one fk suggested about building a death star or something. There is no minimum required response, they made the site to placate a select few naive folks who now feel falsely empowered.
- 3,915
- California
- gdwest1
Would you people PLLEEASSEEEE quit complaining, your government knows what's best for you, just let them run your lives already.
On the real though, I find myself at an interesting crossroads. Sure, I believe in Civil liberties and the like. Would I be a bit annoyed if the government randomly opened my door, and started barging around in my documents? Sure. But for whatever reason, I'm not concerned if they wiretap my phone calls/monitor my social media. Why? Well for starters, it doesn't really impact me whether they do or not, since I follow the laws, etc. It would be a waste of their time to do so, because I'm simply just not interesting.
If anything annoys me about PRISM, it's the budget implications.
On the real though, I find myself at an interesting crossroads. Sure, I believe in Civil liberties and the like. Would I be a bit annoyed if the government randomly opened my door, and started barging around in my documents? Sure. But for whatever reason, I'm not concerned if they wiretap my phone calls/monitor my social media. Why? Well for starters, it doesn't really impact me whether they do or not, since I follow the laws, etc. It would be a waste of their time to do so, because I'm simply just not interesting.
If anything annoys me about PRISM, it's the budget implications.
- 5,812
- shmogt
hawkeye122
Now it doesn't matter. What if you click an ad one day by mistake that takes you to a sketchy website. That's now logged you were there. If you watch any movies from sketchy sites they can build a huge case against you. Literally anything you download you must have the copyright to. Even a Google images picture that you download doesn't belong to you and they now have that recorded. Than one day you receive a huge bill saying you owe for all those things or worse a letter saying you are gonna be sued or face jail. Right now they sue 8yr old kids who download lots of music so you better believe they will sue you over the smallest thing too.
- 24,553
- Frankfort, KY
- GTP_FoolKiller
- FoolKiller1979
That is fine and dandy, so long as they are only doing what they say and they follow the rules. But who is to say one day your country doesn't elect someone that thinks the rules need to be bent, or a new security threat causes them to decide that certain things that are legitimate to say today aren't legitimate to say tomorrow?
The ultimate truth is that nearly every single person is a criminal to some degree. One day someone could determine that anyone they don't like needs to be silenced. Suddenly they dig through your stuff and find what they need to hurt you, and it seemed innocent to you before that point.
Sound crazy? Don't think it can happen in this/your country?
Ask Daniel Ellsberg, leaker of the Pentagon Papers,, about The Fielding Break-in.
Not only could it happen, it has happened. You piss them off and they dig into your history, your medical records, your family, and they try to destroy your character. Want proof it can still happen? Listen to the people trying to discredit Snowden, not on the merit of his claims, but on if he is even worth listening to. "he's a loser, he lived in his mom's basement, he didn't even get a high school degree (technically a lie), he's a geek" and so on. How long before their "investigation" finds his porn history or something and his character is attacked? At least in Ellsberg's day it was illegal. Now it's all above board.
SlowInFastOut
(Banned)
- 194
- United States
it's kind of hilarious how the US, CNN and other major media are trying to smear Snowden, when the international and online community views him as a hero.
Dotini
(Banned)
- 15,742
- Seattle
- CR80_Shifty
For many decades the most powerful and feared man in America was J Edgar Hoover, Director of the FBI. He kept dossiers on many, great and small, including presidents and presidential aspirants. He was able to intimidate and threaten sitting presidents, and of course anyone else he wanted to. Only death removed him from power.
The situation today is redolent to that of the Hoover era, only much worse, as it has taken on the institutional permanence and legitimacy conferred by prominent figures in government, business and media. Today we are governed by the policies (i.e., whims) of men (and women), and not by laws. We are not a democracy, as the consent of the governed is no longer required or significant. Our security at the hands of the state trumps the freedoms, rights and liberties of individuals, who have, sheep-like, acquiesced in this transition to fascism. I could be proved wrong only if the people rose up and changed things.
I strongly doubt the current generation of Americans will do anything to reverse this situation. Many think it is for our own good that control over our lives is conceded to a higher power. With the death of God, traditional marriage and family in American life, the role of government is elevated to the pinnacle. Economic disenfranchisement and personal alienation have cowed and frightened many into a submissive or even catatonic state. Drugs, alcohol and entertainment are the cornerstones of too many lives. The American people have finally been reduced to an aimless, feckless state of passivity. What is good or right or moral is now entirely subjective, and the only opinions that count are the ones currently running the intelligence and security agencies.
For thousands of years the operational facts have been that might makes right, and the ends justify the means. Today, it is more true than ever. And there is little and less you can do about it.
The situation today is redolent to that of the Hoover era, only much worse, as it has taken on the institutional permanence and legitimacy conferred by prominent figures in government, business and media. Today we are governed by the policies (i.e., whims) of men (and women), and not by laws. We are not a democracy, as the consent of the governed is no longer required or significant. Our security at the hands of the state trumps the freedoms, rights and liberties of individuals, who have, sheep-like, acquiesced in this transition to fascism. I could be proved wrong only if the people rose up and changed things.
I strongly doubt the current generation of Americans will do anything to reverse this situation. Many think it is for our own good that control over our lives is conceded to a higher power. With the death of God, traditional marriage and family in American life, the role of government is elevated to the pinnacle. Economic disenfranchisement and personal alienation have cowed and frightened many into a submissive or even catatonic state. Drugs, alcohol and entertainment are the cornerstones of too many lives. The American people have finally been reduced to an aimless, feckless state of passivity. What is good or right or moral is now entirely subjective, and the only opinions that count are the ones currently running the intelligence and security agencies.
For thousands of years the operational facts have been that might makes right, and the ends justify the means. Today, it is more true than ever. And there is little and less you can do about it.
- 5,812
- shmogt
SlowInFastOut
Ya really lol. The guy saves the population by telling them the government is planning on screwing them over bad and he's the bad guy lol. They said he's heading to Cuba which is pretty smart since US can't go there but also sad since I'm sure he's gonna end up dead in the end.
- 24,553
- Frankfort, KY
- GTP_FoolKiller
- FoolKiller1979
Last report I saw said he wasn't on the plane to Cuba and no one is sure where he is. Either he faked the Cuba destination or he is now being detained.
I'm not sure whether running or not is the smarter idea. If you don't run you have to stay hidden, worry about your family, etc. Then when you get caught you get the Bradley Manning treatment. If you run and go public you put the heat on you while putting loved ones in the media spotlight, where nothing can be done to them to threaten you. But you spend your days watching the sky for drones or Blackhawks. If he is smart, he will stay in the media in a place where he will be granted asylum. His life will be far less at risk after the administration has sworn up and down all their stuff really only applies to foreign citizens.
Dotini
(Banned)
- 15,742
- Seattle
- CR80_Shifty
A purported international take on the surveillance scandals.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/...lations-in-Dozens-of-Nations-Snowden-Blowback
It seems AntiSec had stumbled upon a tiny piece of the vast NSA "global" spying dragnet that was collecting private data profiles on ordinary citizens-- not only in the US, but throughout the world.
Ten months later, halfway around the world, Edward Snowden was monitoring the systems that were collecting this illegally accessed very private citizen data. And the data was not just from ordinary Americans and Chinese, but from all our friends and allies -- Germany, Australia, Canada, Scandinavia, Latin and South America, and many others.
It took three months for Snowden to decide to put a stop to this illegal activity.
If Snowden were a criminal, he could have exploited the data. Or sold it to identity thieves. Or, even sold it to a foreign enemy.
But in order to do the right thing -- and expose the crime -- Snowden would have to give up his own life and throw himself on the mercy of the ordinary citizens of the world.
Yes, the collection of this kind of personal data is illegal in almost every nation in the world.
The right to privacy from electronic surveillance is granted in most national constitutions. This expectation of privacy has been declared a human right by the UN. It is a crime to collect it secretly.
It may be hard for Americans to wrap their minds around this concept because, in their case, human rights are not directly conferred upon them, constitutionally -- and can be suspended by the Executive Branch or the high court at any time, if it is deemed (often secretly) to be in the best interest of the "defense" of the nation.
Read that last sentence again.
You are living in that reality. The citizens of other nations are not. Their constitutions declare and affirm human rights that are specific to the 21st century issues.
Americans have little expectation of general human rights, many of which were circumvented by the Patriot Act. But, right npw, the rest rest of the world is dismayed and outraged that the US has illegally breached their sovereign laws to spy on their citizens and businesses.
The world regards what the NSA is doing as an international crime and a direct violation of their human rights.
The world is looking at an international crisis -- as a result of Edward Snowden's description of an illegal data theft "Process" -- perpetrated against their own citizens. The US is engaged in ongoing criminal activity against their sovereignty. And they are scrambling to put a stop to it.
The United States can no longer be trusted, never, ever again.
This is a watershed moment that changes everything. You are witnessing an epic geopolitical shift that will profoundly effect the United States standing throughout the world. It will certainly affect your future.
Before this is over, the entire architecture of the Internet will be rebuilt.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/...lations-in-Dozens-of-Nations-Snowden-Blowback
It seems AntiSec had stumbled upon a tiny piece of the vast NSA "global" spying dragnet that was collecting private data profiles on ordinary citizens-- not only in the US, but throughout the world.
Ten months later, halfway around the world, Edward Snowden was monitoring the systems that were collecting this illegally accessed very private citizen data. And the data was not just from ordinary Americans and Chinese, but from all our friends and allies -- Germany, Australia, Canada, Scandinavia, Latin and South America, and many others.
It took three months for Snowden to decide to put a stop to this illegal activity.
If Snowden were a criminal, he could have exploited the data. Or sold it to identity thieves. Or, even sold it to a foreign enemy.
But in order to do the right thing -- and expose the crime -- Snowden would have to give up his own life and throw himself on the mercy of the ordinary citizens of the world.
Yes, the collection of this kind of personal data is illegal in almost every nation in the world.
The right to privacy from electronic surveillance is granted in most national constitutions. This expectation of privacy has been declared a human right by the UN. It is a crime to collect it secretly.
It may be hard for Americans to wrap their minds around this concept because, in their case, human rights are not directly conferred upon them, constitutionally -- and can be suspended by the Executive Branch or the high court at any time, if it is deemed (often secretly) to be in the best interest of the "defense" of the nation.
Read that last sentence again.
You are living in that reality. The citizens of other nations are not. Their constitutions declare and affirm human rights that are specific to the 21st century issues.
Americans have little expectation of general human rights, many of which were circumvented by the Patriot Act. But, right npw, the rest rest of the world is dismayed and outraged that the US has illegally breached their sovereign laws to spy on their citizens and businesses.
The world regards what the NSA is doing as an international crime and a direct violation of their human rights.
The world is looking at an international crisis -- as a result of Edward Snowden's description of an illegal data theft "Process" -- perpetrated against their own citizens. The US is engaged in ongoing criminal activity against their sovereignty. And they are scrambling to put a stop to it.
The United States can no longer be trusted, never, ever again.
This is a watershed moment that changes everything. You are witnessing an epic geopolitical shift that will profoundly effect the United States standing throughout the world. It will certainly affect your future.
Before this is over, the entire architecture of the Internet will be rebuilt.
BobK
Premium
- 7,020
- Massachusetts, USA
Article quoted by Dotini
Actually, yes they are. Yes it's true that executive orders and even laws such as the Patriot Act may circumvent those rights, but such actions are unconstitutional. Doesn't stop them from doing it. And the same applies to each and every country. Yes their constitutions may forbid it. That won't stop those in power from ignoring those premises when they feel circumstances warrant.
Rightly so.
Maybe not "never, ever again" but certainly right now, no.
This is true. Unfortunately I expect it will be rebuilt in a manner which champions of freedom would not approve of.
- 24,553
- Frankfort, KY
- GTP_FoolKiller
- FoolKiller1979
The EFF spliced together a video of Candidate Obama and President Obama talking about domestic surveillance, to have him debating himself.
- 7,177
- Lisboa
- FLAT_TWELVE
It's not that I bother with a foreign agency collecting my personal data through my iPhone and Facebook and Google and Laptop and whatever. They'll get a big yawn out of it (unless they're into Morgans, motorbikes, Le Mans, F1 and Gran Turismo 
)
What bothers me is that they CAN do it. Having lived the 70's and the 80's in an european society with very high political awareness levels, and knowing what the cold war was, I'm very glad that the internet didn't exist back then.
It's a wonderful thing (the 'net) and I wouldn't be writing here without it, but more than once I have this somber thought that it allows powerful organizations (that are effectively ABOVE the law) to know almost everything about me, my whereabouts, when did I travel where, with whom I was, what emails I sent, who emailed me, who I texted, who replied, what was said ... and much more. I'm giving them too much power, without checks or balances, and if for some reason one day I get placed on the wrong end of the stick ... I'm done.
)What bothers me is that they CAN do it. Having lived the 70's and the 80's in an european society with very high political awareness levels, and knowing what the cold war was, I'm very glad that the internet didn't exist back then.
It's a wonderful thing (the 'net) and I wouldn't be writing here without it, but more than once I have this somber thought that it allows powerful organizations (that are effectively ABOVE the law) to know almost everything about me, my whereabouts, when did I travel where, with whom I was, what emails I sent, who emailed me, who I texted, who replied, what was said ... and much more. I'm giving them too much power, without checks or balances, and if for some reason one day I get placed on the wrong end of the stick ... I'm done.
- 4,156
- United States
It's time for you guys to lighten up with this video.
Pretty bad language. Considered NSFW
It's not like they aren't being watched. It's not illegal as I recall.
Pretty bad language. Considered NSFW
It's not like they aren't being watched. It's not illegal as I recall.
Last edited:
nobuffalo
Premium
- 2,692
- USA
I'm not sure what you're getting at but many of the things that guy does in his videos can be considered illegal and rightfully so, he was not always on public property. Being a photographer I would expect you to know this.
Also, that Mcdonald's in the beginning is right down the street from me.
- 24,553
- Frankfort, KY
- GTP_FoolKiller
- FoolKiller1979
It needs a language warning.
It is funny and sad to see how differently people react to surveillance when they can see it happening openly.
It is funny and sad to see how differently people react to surveillance when they can see it happening openly.
- 4,156
- United States
I'm not sure what you're getting at but many of the things that guy does in his videos can be considered illegal and rightfully so, he was not always on public property. Being a photographer I would expect you to know this.
Also, that Mcdonald's in the beginning is right down the street from me.
I know it's illegal to be on private property. Some things I don't know fully. I don't photograph on the streets because of the usual hatred photographers get on them. It's something I don't see changing for a while.
Watch out for him, you should mess with him if you ever encounter him.
GTsail
Premium
- 2,472
- Florida
- GTsail2/GTsail3
I just took a look at this and signed up so I can learn more.....
The Whitehouse.gov website says that it needs your email address because it would like to collect some basic info: IP address, Internet domain name, browser type, amount of data transmitted.....
You can also agree to be added to the Whitehouse email mailing list, or you can opt out.
The Whitehouse website also says that it sends out a couple of cookies, a session cookie and a persistent cookie. The website says that these cookies are used to identify the computer that is being used, to improve the user's experience and to measure various website metrics. The Whitehouse website says more, but it is pretty boring stuff.
Respectfully,
GTsail
- 744
- The Moon
- nofxmike06
- NOFXMIKE06
If you cannot see how a private citizen video taping a person on private property or in the vicinity of private property, with a personal camera, while they're eating or in a moment of vulnerability differs from a government agency collecting information on a population then there is no hope for you.
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