Prism

[FoolKiller]

If you cannot see how a private citizen video taping a person on private property or in the vicinity of private property, with a personal camera, while they're eating or in a moment of vulnerability differs from a government agency collecting information on a population then there is no hope for you.

I know how it is different. I trust the government less and would use far worse language on them. The other difference is I have Constitutional protection from the government doing it without a warrant.

If you can't see how it is similar then there is no hope for liberty and our Constitutionally guaranteed rights.

 

[BobK]

I just took a look at this and signed up so I can learn more.....

The Whitehouse.gov website says that it needs your email address because it would like to collect some basic info: IP address, Internet domain name, browser type, amount of data transmitted.....

You can also agree to be added to the Whitehouse email mailing list, or you can opt out.

The Whitehouse website also says that it sends out a couple of cookies, a session cookie and a persistent cookie. The website says that these cookies are used to identify the computer that is being used, to improve the user's experience and to measure various website metrics. The Whitehouse website says more, but it is pretty boring stuff.

Respectfully,
GTsail

Hmm. First of all, they get all of that information except your email address as soon as you go to the site, regardless of whether you sign up or not. Likewise for planting their cookies.

Second, seems you have to sign up to find out why you have to sign up. That sounds an awful lot like "we have to pass this bill in order to see what's in it."

 

[Grayfox]

This is why you use CTRL+SHIFT+P in firefox.

Like to see cookies left behind in private browsing.

 

[USARMYCOMBATVET]

I know how it is different. I trust the government less and would use far worse language on them. The other difference is I have Constitutional protection from the government doing it without a warrant.

If you can't see how it is similar then there is no hope for liberty and our Constitutinally guaranteed rights.

Try spelling Constitutionally correctly before you correct me on something I took an oath to defend. Since this argument is based on a false premise I'm not going to even bother.

 

[FoolKiller]

Try spelling Constitutionally correctly before you correct me on something I took an oath to defend. Since this argument is based on a false premise I'm not going to even bother.

Pardon my typo, made on a phone. I didn't know minor errors such as that negated all points.

But since you want to walk off, under the guise of not debating a false premise, perhaps you could exain what you see as a false premise? I don't even know exactly what your point is since you basically just claimed false premise and stomped off. If you want people to see this the way you do then perhaps not allowing me to continue spreading my false premise would be a good idea. Otherwise, I will continue with my accusations until I die or every politician that believes they have a right to monitor me without reason is out of office.

Since my disagreement with NSA surveillance is based on Constitutional grounds, I assume that is what you claim is a false premise. I don't see how what the NSA is doing doesn't violate the 4th Amendment. Correct me, and everyone else in this thread, instead of making comments like, 'If you can't see how it differs then there is no hope for you,' and, 'it's based on a false premise so I'm not going to bother.' It proves nothing and says nothing. We don't know your opinion, your reasoning for having that opinion, or have anything to discuss, other than your posting style.

Really, the only stuff beyond hope or not worth our time are posts that have no substance.

 

[livemusic]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/27/us-usa-security-ecuador-idUSBRE95Q0L820130627

 

[Touring Mars]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/27/us-usa-security-ecuador-idUSBRE95Q0L820130627

I especially liked this bit:

"Termination of the benefits could hurt the cut flower industry, which has blossomed under the program"

 

[shmogt]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/27/us-usa-security-ecuador-idUSBRE95Q0L820130627

Lol cut trades than offer support for training. Looks like we know who the class clown of the world is.

I especially liked this bit:

"Termination of the benefits could hurt the cut flower industry, which has blossomed under the program"

To be fair $166 million is the industry size so you wouldn't wanna lose it. However yes still sounds funny lol.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Try spelling Constitutionally correctly before you correct me on something I took an oath to defend. Since this argument is based on a false premise I'm not going to even bother.

Bother because you're infatuated with the gov't, and have no unbiased objective way of talking about it, thus if we don't agree with you we are obviously bashing the government. Also you're not the only person that took that oath, but go ahead and use it as some sort of intellectual piece that causes you to be any more informative than the average citizen that will never take it at a MEPS station.

There is a critical reason for concern, and it false under the same reasons that have been brought up before for debate to only be ignored by the Government and forgotten during election time. Let me ask you this though, do you support the second amendment under the guise of the Neo-con/Tea Party/War Hawk republicans?

 

[Hun200kmh]

I'm 48 years old now, so I do remember the 70's and the 80's quite well. Being from an european country that had, in those years, a very strong communist party that was appealing to the youth and with great impact in cultural and university circles, I do remember the heated discussions about "East" and "West", communism and capitalism, America and the USSR, NATO and the Warsaw Pact, etc. In a way I miss those days because people were politically aware and seriously debating politics and even political theories was something we all did. Without Facebook friendships, Twitter feeds, internet memes and/or viral videos on Youtube.

I was always a right-winger in those debates. I was a fierce pro-american, anti-soviet, pro-capitalism, anti-communism. And I remember being a champion of the "Freedom of the individual" over the "Equality of the masses". And I remember what caused the greater impact on my "debate adversaries". FREEDOM. When I got to mention the Goulags, I was either told that was a lie, or the usual "americans do it too".

In those days, I could laugh it off. Now ... I'm not sure.

I just read this, written from an american. And I felt it mirrored my own "foreigner" thoughts on the USA I admired 30 years ago and that I now have some difficulty in recognizing. So, I'll share it here.

"My friends, sometimes the most difficult thing about fighting evil is realizing that it actually exists, and then unambiguously and forcefully calling it what it is.

History shows time and time again that one of evils greatest strengths is its ability to disguise itself as good, or at least a temporary necessity, until that last fatal moment when its revelation becomes clear, indisputable, and inescapable.

So today let us take a clear and unadulterated look into the mirror at ourselves.

Just a few years ago we were one of the most respected and admired defenders of democracy and human rights in history. Respected not only by our friends, but even begrudgingly by most of our enemies. In fact, even the fantastic power of our military paled in comparison to the overwhelming might of our moral authority.

Today we are a nation that operates secret prisons occupied by anonymous inmates, illegally abducted and held indefinitely without charge or representation. We are guilty of torture. We are guilty of murder. We are guilty of preemptive war of conquest. We are guilty of the wholesale surveillance of our population, suppressing all hope of privacy and free dissent. And we are guilty of disgracing our nation through the abandonment of even our most basic precepts of morality.

If this is not evil, then nothing we have ever fought against is evil, and nothing we have ever fought for is good."

 

[Famine]

Try spelling Constitutionally correctly before you correct me on something I took an oath to defend.

Foolkiller's defending the Fourth Amendment, without an oath. Your turn.

 

[Keef]

Taking an oath to defend the Constitution is one thing. Following the orders of people who don't adhere to their oaths is another. There's a reason I'll never join the military...I don't believe we are a good match.

 

[FoolKiller]

So, now more recent information reported from the leaks shows that the US is doing the same thing to the EU, the largest amount from Germany.

In response, this man was protesting in Hanover, Germany. I love the sign.

"Yes we scan" should become the protest motto against the NSA and their surveillance programs.

 

[arora]

Germans spy too, everyone of power does it. This bit is something that I can relate to, this is not about terrorism it's about power and control.

If it is true that EU representations in Brussels and Washington were indeed tapped by the American secret service, it can hardly be explained with the argument of fighting terrorism

Not only do I not feel more safe, I feel much less safe. I don't trust this machine moving at the speed of light with leaders seriously lacking character at the helm.

 

[Joel]

But what do you mean? Nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide

 

[Ibonibo]

We should all move backto writing letters and using pigeon messengers

While all agencies around the world spy, the US agencies are overdoing it. In my little country, the agency is under heavy fire. Germanies BND does not stand above the BVG and took slaps over the years.

I for one, would love that the EU would grant Snowden safety in the EU and say a big ******* **** to the US if they want him back.

The dimension of Prism, Tempora,... is just mind blowing. 500 millions phone connections in december alone in Germany have been registered by the NSA. Germany has 80 million citizen.

I for one am happy that my information on the internet is rare. I can google my real life name, nothing comes up. I am well aware they know, but much less then on the average myface junkies. I rarely take my cell with me, hacked the gps in my cars so I can switch them off at will,...

If this trend continues, and I wrote that somewhere here, people will occupy the streets and heads will role, meta. or literally.

It will be 1789 all over again.

 

[Rage Racer]

- Mr. President, my father tells that you watch our PC.
- Oh, come on, no... He's not your father.

 

[Sam48]

It's now been determined that the scope of the NSA's surveillance is a whole lot broader than we thought.

NSA controls global Internet traffic via private fiber-optic cables

 

[Sanji Himura]

Germans spy too, everyone of power does it. This bit is something that I can relate to, this is not about terrorism it's about power and control.

That is true, but not to this extent, sir. Germany didn't just up and decide to monitor all phone and internet traffic of THEIR citizens for no apparent reason, no immediate need for Terror action, and most certainly without cause.

Think that 5 exabyte facility that they are building out in Utah is just there just to be there, or in other words waste money? No. That facility is being built to collect every key stroke that people type in their phones, computers, you name it, and it won't be a US problem, but a global one.

 

[Carlos]

D'oh! Double post

 

[Carlos]

That is true, but not to this extent, sir. Germany didn't just up and decide to monitor all phone and internet traffic of THEIR citizens for no apparent reason, no immediate need for Terror action, and most certainly without cause.

Think that 5 exabyte facility that they are building out in Utah is just there just to be there, or in other words waste money? No. That facility is being built to collect every key stroke that people type in their phones, computers, you name it, and it won't be a US problem, but a global one.

I have more faith in Germany than any other country in the EU at this moment. Here in The Netherlands they are working on Project Symbolon. It's planned to go live in January 2014. It's like Prism, or maybe a copy. The goals are the same.

Only thing is, everything is already being tracked here. Espionage is very high here and the Pirate Party isn't taken seriously, unlike in Germany..


I'm also afraid there is no way to stop all this, because:

But what do you mean? Nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide

 

[arora]

Noob is a funny guy sometimes.

Stasi anyone? No?

 

[Pupik]

Think that 5 exabyte facility that they are building out in Utah is just there just to be there, or in other words waste money? No. That facility is being built to collect every key stroke that people type in their phones, computers, you name it, and it won't be a US problem, but a global one.

In that case, I'm not paying extra for some other company to be my go-to cloud storage provider.

(I have to joke about it. The reality of it makes me sick, having read about it in Wired last year.)

 

[Carlos]

Noob is a funny guy sometimes.

Stasi anyone? No?

Yes?

“Very funny. But anyone making such a comparison knows neither the Stasi nor the United States,” an embassy spokesperson told AFP.

 

[tanveerahmed2k8]

They make a false terror flag, use that to scare you and slowly take away your rights. wake up people.

 

[Hun200kmh]

I especially like this part:

How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those who are more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable. But again, truth be told...if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

There is a reason I have these signatures...

 

[Grayfox]

So has the white house look at the signatures and they said we will do nothing about it?

 

[shmogt]

So has the white house look at the signatures and they said we will do nothing about it?

The white house is in charge of all this. They won't do anything. They could tell everyone that it will stop and the data will be deleted than do nothing. It was a secret program that people found out by very special circumstances. I highly doubt anything will stop them.

 

[FoolKiller]

So has the white house look at the signatures and they said we will do nothing about it?

No, they have not responded to the petition yet. I Checked it just now and it is still listed as an open petition.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snowden/Dp03vGYD