Project CARS 2 General Discussion Thread - Out Now on PS4/XB1/PC

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Sentry87
If pcars2 is at e3 I'm hoping maybe we can see a race long enough to show off some of the new features. Manual pit stops, animated pit crew, how the code 60 and cautions work now, live track 3.0 dynamic weather.
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We've seen so much content, I'm genuinely curious to see what else they might show off.
 
crowhop
Show me the source of where Physics, Tire Model and Sim-Realism are the prime objectives of the Forza franchise. That would be my source.

I apologize for using the word 'fanboy'. That word has been deleted.
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That's not how a debate works. You made the claim, you provide a source, like this for Forza 6:
Dan: ‘With the eighth-generation console, the Xbox One, we’re able to simulate things that weren’t possible in the last generation. We’re able to do things ourselves now that four or five years ago would have been done overnight with servers at a major manufacturer.

‘Our new physics engine puts us on the cutting edge of rendering – as you’ll see from Forzavista – but also allows us to simulate hundreds of different types of tyre compound for different cars. Not just width, but the way the tyres heat up, and cool down, and even get flat spots. We can simulate all the different suspension architectures, the electronics and driver aids, and even the inertia of the drivelines.’
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http://www.evo.co.uk/interviews/16150/forza-motorsport-6-exclusive-interview-with-dan-greenawalt
 
McLaren
That's not how a debate works. You made the claim, you provide a source, like this for Forza 6:

http://www.evo.co.uk/interviews/16150/forza-motorsport-6-exclusive-interview-with-dan-greenawalt
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I'm over discussing F7 here in the Project CARS forum, to be honest.

They made this claim for F6, but how many actual players would say they had realistic physics, tire model or sim-realism in F6? If F6 were known for its sim-realism, then why didn't simracers flock to the game and abandon iRacing when they could have gotten a better experience on a less expensive XBox console?

Sure they will get closer in F7, but sim-realism is not the end game of the Forza series. It is like Gran Turismo. It will be "good enough". Which is fine. This does not bother me at all. This is not a debate as much as it is based on the the previous 9 games. History as proven what Forza is and what it is not.


AS FOR PROJECT CARS 2:

Le Mans week!
Do we see Le Mans-specific content at E3?
 
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McLaren
It's comments like these that continually show you're just talking nonsense.


All of which were introduced in Horizon 3.
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Keywords " all of which have never been been in a forza motorsport game". They will play out a little different in a track based game. I'm sure there's loads of other cars that's new to forza MOTORSPORT...
 
Dsavage27
Keywords " all of which have never been been in a forza motorsport game". They will play out a little different in a track based game. I'm sure there's loads of other cars that's new to forza MOTORSPORT...
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Just for reference, FM6 with all DLC reached a grand total of TOTAL = 621 Cars from 89 Manufacturers
Badned's reference list is here: http://www.forzacentral.com/forum/t...icle-track-list-wip-updated-august-2nd.39908/

So they are committed to adding at least 80 new cars (new to FM, possibly having been in Horizon), maybe more if they decide to retired any of the existing cars (e.g. licensing deals making retaining them difficult).


P.S. I apologize for prolonging the FM7 sidetrack. We all know pCARS 2 will have a more interesting set of racecars than FM7, it will just have about 550 less road cars :)
 
McLaren
That's not how a debate works. You made the claim, you provide a source, like this for Forza 6:

http://www.evo.co.uk/interviews/16150/forza-motorsport-6-exclusive-interview-with-dan-greenawalt
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I hate to get into this, but I have to point out one flaw in all of this. And it comes from a quote that you posted as support for your argument.

‘Our new physics engine puts us on the cutting edge of rendering – as you’ll see from Forzavista – but also allows us to simulate hundreds of different types of tyre compound for different cars. Not just width, but the way the tyres heat up, and cool down, and even get flat spots. We can simulate all the different suspension architectures, the electronics and driver aids, and even the inertia of the drivelines.’

Read that entire quote carefully...... Even their top guy's comments make it clear that THEIR definition of "physics" is based around the VISUAL. First thing he talks about is "rendering" and "Forzavista".... then makes a follow up comment that basically says "Oh, and it also let's us do these other things that are just an added bonus".

Seriously, when their own head guy is more focused on the visual side of the game than the actual handling and tire model, etc. how can fans of the franchise really make any kind of claim about the realism and authenticity?

I've played the the Apex Beta. I've played FM3 and FM4. They're fun games, but just like the GT series they are GAMES first and foremost, meant to be played by a large and diverse audience, and focused on the "quick race" approach. That's cool, and fun and all, but it is a far cry from what pCARS, and AC and iRacing and all the others being mentioned here before such as RaceRoom and rFactor are trying to do.

Forza and GT series are at best a good introduction to new racing/automotive enthusiasts into what is possible for virtual racing. But they are definitely not the equal of the others mentioned. They are a toned down, simplified, mass market, broad appeal game. THere's nothing wrong with that btw. They are great entertainment and perfect for that "I have 30 minutes to kill" time

And this key difference is where I believe pCARS1 struggled. THey tried to introduce the more "hardcore" sim aspects into something that SMS also tried to make appealing to the mass market audience. THat is a very fine knife edge to try to accomodate and we saw the types of issues that caused. The hardcore guys wanted the vast plethora of fine tuning options for every aspect of the software (FFB, Visuals, COntroller settings, etc.) whiel the casual mass market players wanted the same experience as they would have in their "plug and play" Forza and GT experience. I give major props to SMS for having had the guts and fortitude to try to do it, and I think their first attempt was a great success, even with the issues encountered.My hope is that with the experiences and lessons learned of the first one, that the second one is finally able to hit the mark for them. So far, it seems they are right on track. Can't wait for Sept 22nd to find out myself.
 
F1Racer68
I hate to get into this, but I have to point out one flaw in all of this. And it comes from a quote that you posted as support for your argument.

‘Our new physics engine puts us on the cutting edge of rendering – as you’ll see from Forzavista – but also allows us to simulate hundreds of different types of tyre compound for different cars. Not just width, but the way the tyres heat up, and cool down, and even get flat spots. We can simulate all the different suspension architectures, the electronics and driver aids, and even the inertia of the drivelines.’

Read that entire quote carefully...... Even their top guy's comments make it clear that THEIR definition of "physics" is based around the VISUAL. First thing he talks about is "rendering" and "Forzavista".... then makes a follow up comment that basically says "Oh, and it also let's us do these other things that are just an added bonus".
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You're manipulating the quote to fit your argument. He went into specifics of what they can simulate more than he talked about how it renders.

It was also an example of him needing to provide a source for his claim.
Seriously, when their own head guy is more focused on the visual side of the game than the actual handling and tire model, etc. how can fans of the franchise really make any kind of claim about the realism and authenticity?
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Seemed fine when guys who revolve around reviewing simulators played it.
Final thoughts

Is it realistic enough? Is it fun enough? Does it make you come back for more? Worth the price? We would say yes to all of the above. It definitely offers more than Forza Motorsport 5 did and feels more polished like Forza 4 did for the XBox 360.

Remember that some cars feel better out of the box than others and may require tuning. Also, make sure to warm the tires up for at least a lap before pushing too hard.

We would recommend it, yes and it’s definitely more fun and challenging with a wheel and pedals set.
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http://www.isrtv.com/forza-motorsport/forza-motorsport-6-review/
I've played the the Apex Beta. I've played FM3 and FM4. They're fun games, but just like the GT series they are GAMES first and foremost, meant to be played by a large and diverse audience, and focused on the "quick race" approach. That's cool, and fun and all, but it is a far cry from what pCARS, and AC and iRacing and all the others being mentioned here before such as RaceRoom and rFactor are trying to do.

Forza and GT series are at best a good introduction to new racing/automotive enthusiasts into what is possible for virtual racing. But they are definitely not the equal of the others mentioned. They are a toned down, simplified, mass market, broad appeal game. THere's nothing wrong with that btw. They are great entertainment and perfect for that "I have 30 minutes to kill" time.
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You're making a response for an argument that's not there; nobody has compared them and nobody thinks they're in the same league.

crowhop
I'm over discussing F7 here in the Project CARS forum, to be honest.

They made this claim for F6, but how many actual players would say they had realistic physics, tire model or sim-realism in F6? If F6 were known for its sim-realism, then why didn't simracers flock to the game and abandon iRacing when they could have gotten a better experience on a less expensive XBox console?
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Again, the guys who review sims gave it a positive review stating it was realistic enough. You're pushing a narrative as if FM7 is trying to be a hardcore sim & listing bogus reasons why it can't. I'm not arguing it is a hardcore sim, I'm pointing out your questionable opinions of a game you admit to never investing in. I know it's a not a hardcore sim.

I could easily flip that narrative & claim iRacing isn't realistic because I see videos of people racing like children on what's supposed to be the best sim experience around. But, that's a dumb outlook b/c A) I have no hands on & B) I'm basing what I see off a select piece of evidence. It's an argument I've seen thrown at PCars in the GT forum & even responding that real world car developers have a hand in the game, some folks dismiss that as marketing talk.
 
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Anyway. To get off the Forza discussion, I've seen something rather interesting about a BTCC game licensing. I'm sure many people would be interesting and would only need 3 circuits and one of those has an oval and another an RX layout. http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/tin-tops/alan-gow-podcast-association-mercedes-benz

If a games producer came to me and aid “we want to produce a game and produce a great BTCC game” I’ll sign up, but the problem is they won’t at the moment because they’re do expensive to do. The other thing is, in the olden days the games were always designed around proper cars on proper racetracks, but now driving games are a largely cars on made up racetracks, so they’re not real racing games any more. Gran Turismo is you can get in a car and all the racetracks you race on, hardly any of them are real, so the real aspect of the championship has been taken out of it.
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The only other car addition would really be the Porsche GT Cup Support Series. Although the other concern is whether they'd be happy with multiple disciplines and the 2016 IndyCar license too. I'm not saying it's realistic. Just possible.
 
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McLaren
Again, the guys who review sims gave it a positive review stating it was realistic enough. You're pushing a narrative as if FM7 is trying to be a hardcore sim & listing bogus reasons why it can't. I'm not arguing it is a hardcore sim, I'm pointing out your questionable opinions of a game you admit to never investing in. I know it's a not a hardcore sim.

I could easily flip that narrative & claim iRacing isn't realistic because I see videos of people racing like children on what's supposed to be the best sim experience around. But, that's a dumb outlook b/c A) I have no hands on & B) I'm basing what I see off a select piece of evidence. It's an argument I've seen thrown at PCars in the GT forum & even responding that real world car developers have a hand in the game, some folks dismiss that as marketing talk.
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I have never said F7 or the Forza Series was trying to be a hardcore sim. And Forza can be whatever T10 want it to be. Frankly, I don't give a care about whatever they do with the game. But F7 looked fun.

And I have said Forza is "good enough" (nearly matching your quote).

It seems to me you are bored and just want to debate because nothing you are saying is in direct opposition to anything I have stated. You keep saying I have made baseless claims, but what I have said is the near-universal take on what Forza is. Go sell it somewhere else, man. I have no idea why you are so defensive about this.

If you must continue this, please tag me in a thread in the Forza Forum or via PM. I will not continue the back and forth over nuances about a game we are both interested in that is completely unrelated to the Forum we are in. Thank you.
 
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crowhop
It seems to me you are bored and just want to debate because nothing you are saying is in direct opposition to anything I have stated. You keep saying I have made baseless claims, but what I have said is the near-universal take on what Forza is. Go sell it somewhere else, man. I have no idea why you are so defensive about this.
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You've barely played the game, how on earth can you claim your opinion is universal?

All you're doing now is more deflecting going after me; fanboy, trolling, etc. whilst attempting to be a "bigger person" by dropping the discussion. :rolleyes:
 
Vitesh Patel
Is that a thing? Had Bandai Namco bought some space on the show floor? I would've thought that the E3 sizzle trailer was all that we were going to get.

The fact that Turn 10 chose to spend their time unveiling a Porsche (that few people in the crowd would be able to tell apart from a 911 Turbo), rather than waxing lyrical about what makes their game special (IMSA Weathertec License - I saw the Daytona Prototype International Mazda in the trailer) speaks to how much it stood out like a sore thumb. Nobody gave a flying monkeys about the car being there.
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Do please show me which frame you saw the Mazda DPi in as I give a lot more than a "flying monkey" about driving that.
 

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