Project CARS 3: General Discussion Thread - Out August 28th, 2020 on XB1/PS4/PC

[Johnnn]

The vast majority of players use the controller I notice. Although I expect that's the same for most driving games, particularly on console.

I don't think so because somebody should see how broken it is on Xbox. Probably not many people play it and most of them are on a wheel. I can't imagine nothing else

Thanks for your reply @strela ,I’m on a xbox series x now and pc1 and pc2 both looks great And play really smoothly ,pcars 3 Sounds like it could be good pick up and play fun which is no bad thing,i use a Wheel mostly but sometimes Couch and controller for lazy sessions are these equally useable?

PC1 doesn't looks so great but the game is still great.

Controller is very similar for PC1 and PC2. PC3 has something like GTS and it's not PC feeling anymore but there is some other problem nobody sees.

 

[twoskodas]

PC1 doesn't looks so great but the game is still great.

Controller is very similar for PC1 and PC2. PC3 has something like GTS and it's not PC feeling anymore but there is some other problem nobody sees.[/QUOTE]. We’ll pc1 looks good to me on series x but I’m a child of the 60s so could be my eyesight I plan on playing this for a more relaxing experience so hardcore physics are not a priority,

 

[Johnnn]

PC1 doesn't looks so great but the game is still great.

Controller is very similar for PC1 and PC2. PC3 has something like GTS and it's not PC feeling anymore but there is some other problem nobody sees.

. We’ll pc1 looks good to me on series x but I’m a child of the 60s so could be my eyesight I plan on playing this for a more relaxing experience so hardcore physics are not a priority,[/QUOTE]


It looks good but it's like a bit retro experience. On XSX PC2 has much higher resolution and it's nice overall. But PC1 is great. I don't care about graphics and playing PC1 now.

Physics is probably OK in PC3 but handling is different. But it's prepared for easy handling like GTS.

 

[IfAndOr]

Now that I am the proud owner of a Playseat Challenge and Drive Hub, my Logitech G25 has been finally employed for use on PCARS2 and PCARS3.

You've been wheel-less for quite some time so it's good you're enjoying the experience again. I've heard the Playseat Challenge recommended by many now. It seems to be be a relatively simple but very effective piece of kit.

As it happens I did the reverse yesterday in that I thought I'd give the controller a proper go in PC3. I had tried it briefly previously. And yes it was quite effective, both with stick and tilt steering. I did find that many of the options under the wheel menu also had an effect on the controller. Including calibration!

Oh and adding a keyboard gives you access to many of the PC2 view features that are hidden away in PC3. Including stopping the speed sensitive FOV I believe (although I do quite like that effect).

I plan on playing this for a more relaxing experience so hardcore physics are not a priority,

That's probably the best way. Although you'll be surprised, there's still a lot of physics going on under the hood.

Probably not many people play it and most of them are on a wheel. I can't imagine nothing else

You don't have to imagine. If you look at the listings in the Rivals mode it shows what input device people are using. 90%, probably more, are on controller and quite often they are at the top of the leaderboards! So I'm assuming they can't be having problems. And for how many, well there were +2500 on December's monthly event and there can be 1000 or so on the daily events (PS4). So somebody's playing it.

And on that point I've noticed that with Christmas presents and PC3 being reduced in the sales that the player base has increased. It struggled at launch being priced higher than more established titles. Now it's a bit cheaper there's more of a "I'll give it a go" effect.

 

[Johnnn]

You don't have to imagine. If you look at the listings in the Rivals mode it shows what input device people are using. 90%, probably more, are on controller and quite often they are at the top of the leaderboards! So I'm assuming they can't be having problems. And for how many, well there were +2500 on December's monthly event and there can be 1000 or so on the daily events (PS4). So somebody's playing it.

Wow, thanks for the info. It's not about having problems it's about it's not good. And I am talking about Xbox, I won't test anything else for my money. It's possible it's just some Xbox related problem. On the other hand my favorite games for weeks now are PC1 and PC2. If I could play PC3 I would for sure. So it's not anything in my head, it's just broken but probably not for everybody.

 

[strela]

It's possible it's just some Xbox related problem.

There's no Xbox related problems as far as we know. Many Xbox users told you this just a few pages back. You are literally the only one that we know to have this controller problems. Is it just a little bit odd or it's just me?

 

[Johnnn]

There's no Xbox related problems as far as we know. Many Xbox users told you this just a few pages back. You are literally the only one that we know to have this controller problems. Is it just a little bit odd or it's just me?

It's just you. I know what I see but I don't know why. Maybe the reason is OK, I would need some designer to ask. It's like Gran turismo on a pad. Many ppl are surprised the game does so many things for you (they don't know). Many just don't care about what they play and PC3 is very unpopular game (according to Steam) so you don't have enough players.

I am very curious and it's important to me why PC3 is broken but it's just one game and I have about 10 good racing games ready for my time. If somebody can't see it it's fine by me.

 

[the13PeSK]

So there's still no conclusion? Weird, that I can't see a report of this problem on Discord in the bug reports channel - no chances that it will be fixed for you then...

 

[Johnnn]

So there's still no conclusion? Weird, that I can't see a report of this problem on Discord in the bug reports channel - no chances that it will be fixed for you then...

I was at discord but if nobody is able to see it me with me it's probably OK. I currently have PC1 and PC2 and then I can go to AC/ACC. I tried to solve it with few ppl and it's a bit boring if they don't go deep. It's so easy to see to me but I don't know the reason others don't see it. Maybe it's some crazy problem but I tried two consoles, two accounts and many controllers. Main problem is every other game is different. I can easily switch between GT, Forza, PC1, PC2, AC1, ACC but when i try PC3, it's immediately bad. It feels like a big lag but it could be some kind of steering helper.

If I find anybody who is able to research stuff, we can check it together and then it makes sense to report it. I asked at Discord several times for opinions.

 

[the13PeSK]

But there's no bug report still, if you will report it then there's a chance that Dev's might look into this problem (if it does exist at all).

 

[Johnnn]

But there's no bug report still, if you will report it then there's a chance that Dev's might look into this problem (if it does exist at all).

Sounds good, somebody capable would be nice.

 

[the13PeSK]

Sounds good, somebody capable would be nice.

Why you won't report it yourself?

 

[Johnnn]

Why you won't report it yourself?

I meant checking by the designer or something. Maybe it's just design I can't use.

 

[AlexWilmot]

I'm pretty sure what you're describing as lag is steering deadzone, which you can dial out in PC2 but can't in PC3

 

[Awong124]

Meanwhile my hunch is the entire player base is using paddle shifters on every single car in the game.

I use H-shifter and clutch for cars that have them. I remember in PC1 you can shift faster manually with the clutch than using paddles in cars that are supposed to have a manual shifter in real life.

 

[Johnnn]

I'm pretty sure what you're describing as lag is steering deadzone, which you can dial out in PC2 but can't in PC3

There is something dead but I think it's not the normal deadzone. If you take bumper cam, steering starts too late according your movement. I am not sure if every cam is the same because I already read on Steam diff cams could have different steering. And when you go from side to side there is a dead zone but it changes with the car speed. It starts to insert the pauses over 50 km/h into smooth steering - you can't go from side to side smoothly. My main problem is game reacts but with a lag. I can't play the game without accommodation to that lag but I don't see any reason to learn laggy controls if it's not in any other game. Still mystery to me

 

[the13PeSK]

I meant checking by the designer or something. Maybe it's just design I can't use.

It won't be checked when it's not reported.

 

[PJTierney]

I already read on Steam diff cams could have different steering.

That's placebo.

The camera in any game generally has no connection to the handling model, though peoples' perceptions and field of views may make it look like different views handle differently.

 

[Johnnn]

It won't be checked when it's not reported.

Sure, I will try to report it somehow.

That's placebo.

The camera in any game generally has no connection to the handling model, though peoples' perceptions and field of views may make it look like different views handle differently.

Yeah, that's possible. I don't know many players and nobody has PC3 so I needed to dig on forums But interesting is when you use bumper cam, the lag is immediately visible but it's not from cockpit. In cockpit there is only side to side lag visible because wheel always stops for some time instead of moving. So I was thinking if there is some difference...

 

[Wolfe]

You've been wheel-less for quite some time so it's good you're enjoying the experience again. I've heard the Playseat Challenge recommended by many now. It seems to be be a relatively simple but very effective piece of kit.

Thanks. I've been talking about a setup since we bought our house almost eight years ago. Before I first learned of the Playseat, I couldn't imagine it could be so convenient. I didn't even have to move anything to fit it where my regular chair usually sits.

By now I got tired of the G25 kicking around under my main desk, collecting dog hair in a tangle of cords, on standby for the occasional sprint in Live for Speed -- rocking the desk as I play, with a rug beneath the pedals pinned down by the front wheels of my chair, shifting gears like in an EP Honda Civic, with a driving position like a UPS truck or something, as I peer into my Acer laptop's 17" screen. Only to drive LFS's handful of cars and circuits, superb as the physics may be.

I appreciate you acknowledging my prior experience. There was no grand revelation this time -- though Assetto Corsa's attention to detail, driving the street E30 M3 with its original gauge cluster on the Nordschleife, came close. Seeing that number font in that red-orange again kinda hurts, thinking of my old E30. Driving the AE86 down Mount Haruna with realistic physics for the first time was a treat, too.

With my new laptop, AC's mods should help fill the void beyond motorsports sims.

 

[Wolfe]

Getting my wheel setup together has prompted me to spend more time with PCARS3, getting more familiar with it, so I now feel I have a better idea of how it differs from its predecessor in terms of physics. The FFB helps in this case (not typically necessary, IMO), providing feedback that is lacking with the unconfigurable cockpit camera. Until now, I felt I had not gotten enough out of the game or spent enough time with it to make a final judgment.

I have to say that @Scaff is pretty much right on the money. Broadly, the way I would characterize it is that SMS have "Forza Horizon'd" the tire model -- PCARS3 versus PCARS2 reminds me of FH1 versus FM4. In other words, it is mostly the same engine, but with exaggerated grip (and the omitted details we all know that I don't have to repeat).

The biggest change in both cases (PCARS3 and FH1) are the severely shortened braking distances. You can dive hard into corners in this game. The difference between this and FH1 is that Horizon takes place on roads; Playground Games predicted that an overwhelming majority of players would not be accustomed to realistic braking distances at high speed in an open world driving game, and they're right. I never loved it, but it makes sense. In Project CARS, though?? I don't think SMS is doing anyone any favors with these wrong braking points on so many real life circuits. It's a poor fit.

The next biggest effect, at least to me, is on drift initiation, maintenance, and control. There isn't a lot to say -- tires provide more grip now. Going back-to-back on drift laps in the GT86 at Mojave Sidewinder, the GT86 in PCARS2 can drift more of the track's long bends than in PCARS3, and is more able to maintain wheelspin. It doesn't hurt that the tires heat up before long, decreasing traction. Fortunately, the effect on drift trajectory in PCARS3 is more or less proportional to the increase in traction.

I suppose it's about what I assumed it would be, once we learned about the tires. Two steps backwards, but still a solid sim -- if only Forza Horizon drove like this!

 

[barry chipman]

Getting my wheel setup together has prompted me to spend more time with PCARS3, getting more familiar with it, so I now feel I have a better idea of how it differs from its predecessor in terms of physics. The FFB helps in this case (not typically necessary, IMO), providing feedback that is lacking with the unconfigurable cockpit camera. Until now, I felt I had not gotten enough out of the game or spent enough time with it to make a final judgment.

I have to say that @Scaff is pretty much right on the money. Broadly, the way I would characterize it is that SMS have "Forza Horizon'd" the tire model -- PCARS3 versus PCARS2 reminds me of FH1 versus FM4. In other words, it is mostly the same engine, but with exaggerated grip (and the omitted details we all know that I don't have to repeat).

The biggest change in both cases (PCARS3 and FH1) are the severely shortened braking distances. You can dive hard into corners in this game. The difference between this and FH1 is that Horizon takes place on roads; Playground Games predicted that an overwhelming majority of players would not be accustomed to realistic braking distances at high speed in an open world driving game, and they're right. I never loved it, but it makes sense. In Project CARS, though?? I don't think SMS is doing anyone any favors with these wrong braking points on so many real life circuits. It's a poor fit.

The next biggest effect, at least to me, is on drift initiation, maintenance, and control. There isn't a lot to say -- tires provide more grip now. Going back-to-back on drift laps in the GT86 at Mojave Sidewinder, the GT86 in PCARS2 can drift more of the track's long bends than in PCARS3, and is more able to maintain wheelspin. It doesn't hurt that the tires heat up before long, decreasing traction. Fortunately, the effect on drift trajectory in PCARS3 is more or less proportional to the increase in traction.

I suppose it's about what I assumed it would be, once we learned about the tires. Two steps backwards, but still a solid sim -- if only Forza Horizon drove like this!

I think you are spot on my friend with your observations..... regarding exaggerated grip and shorter braking distances....
But I love that.... as for me it makes it a far more enjoyable / exciting "racing" experience ...
Feeling like I would image really High Performance Cars would be to drive..... in the real world...
Consequently producing the adrenaline rush that we all like to experience......
Especially as you still get punished if you over cook things....when you are trying to knock that half a second of your lap time ..

 

[Johnnn]

Comparing with Horizon is very nice. From my observation you have mostly higher grip. So you can do stuff you can't do normally but still with great physics.

 

[PJTierney]

It’s an interesting one from my experience.

There are certain parts of the handling that feel more challenging than Forza Motorsport 7 (weight transfer and tank-slappers being the main one), whereas in other scenarios you can chuck these cars around like in GRID (which is fun but super forgiving).

The brake bias seems too far rearward on most cars as well which seems to promote this “send it” driving style which the faster players use.

I will say however that when you have an aero-dependent car and the speed is high enough, cars feel lovely. @Vic Reign93 can attest to the joy of IndyCar with the High Grip tuning preset, it’s on rails but provides great racing.

 

[Johnnn]

I can't compare it directly on a pad. It's similar problem with Motorsport vs. Horizon. Motorsport has 1 main helper and Horizon has 3 so I can only guess but Horizon looks like mostly higher grip only. PC3 has many helpers too and that's the reason I asked wheel users here. But braking was very fast for sure and higher grip would make sense. If you have good physics, higher grip = shorter brake distance without physics magic. PC2 pad steering would be nice addition to PC3 for good testing.

 

[Awong124]

The brake bias seems too far rearward on most cars as well which seems to promote this “send it” driving style which the faster players use.

I agree. I usually have ABS off, and I find some of the cars a pain to drive because of this. Upgrading the brakes and unlocking brake bias adjustment improves it, but you have to allot PIR for it. It doesn't make sense that all cars have brake bias set at 50% by default, especially road cars.

 

[Wolfe]

I have noticed the brake bias too, at least on some cars, but maybe not others? They don't all go ass-first into braking zones.

For example, I drove the "Capitolio Passion" event in Havana now that its progress-stopping bug has been fixed. I found my McLaren F1 wanting for grip to achieve the time, and it was pretty wild under braking (ABS off, now that I'm on the G25; also true to the car). I didn't feel like changing parts, so I tried my Ferrari F40 first, and despite being another raw mid-engined car, it was significantly more stable -- which I would not necessarily expect from the F40.

 

[Awong124]

I have noticed the brake bias too, at least on some cars, but maybe not others? They don't all go ass-first into braking zones.

For example, I drove the "Capitolio Passion" event in Havana now that its progress-stopping bug has been fixed. I found my McLaren F1 wanting for grip to achieve the time, and it was pretty wild under braking (ABS off, now that I'm on the G25; also true to the car). I didn't feel like changing parts, so I tried my Ferrari F40 first, and despite being another raw mid-engined car, it was significantly more stable -- which I would not necessarily expect from the F40.

Yes, it definitely depends on the car. I don't know what the exact reasons are for the difference, even between cars with the same drivetrain layouts, but probably has something to do with weight distribution, suspension set up, etc. Also, one thing in PC3 that you generally don't seem to be able to adjust is braking power/pressure. If the brake pressure on one car is super high, it would make it easier to lock up and harder to drive. Even with brake bias all the way toward the rear, it's not going to break loose until you lock up. One thing I always liked to adjust in previous PCARS is brake pressure, and I really miss that in PC3.

 

[barry chipman]

It’s an interesting one from my experience.

There are certain parts of the handling that feel more challenging than Forza Motorsport 7 (weight transfer and tank-slappers being the main one), whereas in other scenarios you can chuck these cars around like in GRID (which is fun but super forgiving).

The brake bias seems too far rearward on most cars as well which seems to promote this “send it” driving style which the faster players use.

I will say however that when you have an aero-dependent car and the speed is high enough, cars feel lovely. @Vic Reign93 can attest to the joy of IndyCar with the High Grip tuning preset, it’s on rails but provides great racing.

Yes for years I was a big fan boy of Forza 7 and it did have some nice brake biasing and pedal pressure adjustments, which I used ......

However I am more than satisfied with PC3 's presentation of each vehicle..... which all seem to have subtle idiosyncrasies of their own....

In the end I thought F7 was far to complicated to set up especially for the Wheel adjustments which had regular updates.. driving everybody mad ..

I am really pleased that first time people coming to Sim Racing have now got a viable option that they can just plug in and play.......brilliant..

 

[Scaff]

Feeling like I would image really High Performance Cars would be to drive..... in the real world...

I can assure you they don't.