Racism - Ignored?

[ShobThaBob]

This is just one aspect of things that are wrong.
And quoting a dictionary that contradicts itself kind of seems redundant, no?

There are many " races " in the world, 'human' race being only one.
Ethnic background is the term in question. Doesnt it seem wierd to dislike or like someone simply based on where their grandparents-grandparents were born?

Race isn't typically interchangable with species. 'Breed' is more along the correct term, but most people don't like being reminded that they're actually animals.

 

[Keef]

I don't think breed is a good word either. It implies deliberate selection. Breeds are called breeds because they're bred, not because of natural selection.

 

[Joel]

Since you mentioned that you're okay with stereotyping - I am too - I'll just be blunt and remind you that the physical superiority of blacks is not an assumption, or at least wasn't. Surely you remember that American slavers bred blacks to be bigger, stronger and fit enough to do as much work as possible in the shortest amount of time. I'd argue that whites are only good at things like tennis and golf but even those aren't good examples. Swimming, maybe? Black people don't swim because slavers often drowned them as punishment so I guess that's all we have.

White people are better at swimming while blacks are better at running due to center of gravity differences. Black people have a higher center of gravity which means they fall forward faster between strides when running, not a difference maker for average people but in the Olympics at the top level that advantage is enough that white people simply can't compete.

Same thing in swimming, whites have lower centers of gravity which means more of their upper body is on top of the water and they can generate more power and create bigger waves. Whites also tend to dominate the strength events (shot put, hammer throw, etc) because of evolutionary factors (short arms and strong upper body). Asians are smaller and more flexible, which is why they're more dominant in gymnastics and figure skating.

Culture certainly plays a role in it as certain countries can't afford the equipment for particular sports, but there's also a physiological difference present. It doesn't really pass the sniff test that Jamaicans are the best at running but suck at swimming because of money, if that was the case then the US shouldn't have any trouble training sprinters with the amount of money in athletics.

Now where the waters get murky is when you get football and hockey commentators talking about black QB's and players as "athletic" and implying that they don't play as intelligently as white QB's.

 

[Joel]

*double post*

 

[Johnnypenso]

Now where the waters get murky is when you get football and hockey commentators talking about black QB's and players as "athletic" and implying that they don't play as intelligently as white QB's.

I've watched a lot of hockey in my day and although I've seen many hockey players singled out as "great athletes" or "very athletic" I've never seen that label either applied exclusively to black players or disproportionately.

 

[White & Nerdy]

White people are better at swimming while blacks are better at running due to center of gravity differences. Black people have a higher center of gravity which means they fall forward faster between strides when running, not a difference maker for average people but in the Olympics at the top level that advantage is enough that white people simply can't compete.

Same thing in swimming, whites have lower centers of gravity which means more of their upper body is on top of the water and they can generate more power and create bigger waves. Whites also tend to dominate the strength events (shot put, hammer throw, etc) because of evolutionary factors (short arms and strong upper body). Asians are smaller and more flexible, which is why they're more dominant in gymnastics and figure skating.

I thought I read somewhere that that actually had to do with muscle fibers. Blacks and whites have different types of them. Whites have muscle fibers well suited to sustained release of energy (i.e. swimming), while blacks have muscle fibers made for quick, all-at-once release of more energy (i.e. sprinting).

 

[Johnnypenso]

I thought I read somewhere that that actually had to do with muscle fibers. Blacks and whites have different types of them. Whites have muscle fibers well suited to sustained release of energy (i.e. swimming), while blacks have muscle fibers made for quick, all-at-once release of more energy (i.e. sprinting).

Kind of tough to explain this then:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/olympic_games/world_olympic_dreams/8886705.stm

I don't think there is a "one size fits all" model for explaining athletic prowess. There are also socio-economic factors that influence outcomes, history, tradition, cultural preference, government support etc. etc. etc., along with certain natural tendencies.

 

[Joel]

I've watched a lot of hockey in my day and although I've seen many hockey players singled out as "great athletes" or "very athletic" I've never seen that label either applied exclusively to black players or disproportionately.

Got a bit ahead of myself, I more just meant that people in hockey are still a little bit weird about black players who don't act like Canadian farm boys from Manitoba. The treatment Evander Kane and PK Subban get for example. I just mean that in my experience watching the Habs, when Subban gives the puck away it's because "he's trying to do too much" and the implication is his decision making skills aren't adequate, which isn't really true from what I've seen. We'll see how it goes, hockey is the whitest sport in North America and we'll see if it ends up being like the "athletic" vs "pocket passer" QB discussion in the NFL. I just overall find the way Subban and Kane get talked about in the hockey media is just a bit fishy when you compare it to the way other players are talked about.

I thought I read somewhere that that actually had to do with muscle fibers. Blacks and whites have different types of them. Whites have muscle fibers well suited to sustained release of energy (i.e. swimming), while blacks have muscle fibers made for quick, all-at-once release of more energy (i.e. sprinting).

Eh...I don't know. Kenya tends to dominate marathons as well, but who knows really.

 

[White & Nerdy]

Eh...I don't know. Kenya tends to dominate marathons as well, but who knows really.

Could be both.

 

[demonchilde]

You know, this reminds me of something someone said at a bar that was one of the most racist things I have ever heard. NONE of this comes from me, so please please don't think that, lol. Anyway, this is the gist of it;

The subject of sports was the topic, and keep in mind this is backwoods redneck stickville, and we have about 1 non-white family every 4 towns up here.
Someone made the comment that 75% of all major sports is all "black guys".
Then I heard this;

"You know we did it to ourselves right? We MADE them like that, we BRED them like that."
And someone said wtf are you talking about?
"You look at most black people around the world outside the Americas, and they aren't all that different then any other race in their area. But here, here they are nine times out of ten BIG, and genetically stronger. That is because we bred them like that. Back in the slavery times, slaves were bought and sold depending on their strength, for working purposes. the stronger ones were bred with other stronger ones, and believe it or not, the weaker ones were bred out. The slave owners over a couple hundred years and many generations, selectively bred a stronger race to be able to work harder. Now, everyone is equal, and everyone wonders how come there is so many black americans in major league sports? Because we genetically bred them to be physically superior. "

Anyway, that's what was said.
Any thoughts, lol?
My jaw dropped when he was talking, as I'm originally from NY and not used to open prejudice, well, not to that degree anyway, lol.
Opinions?

 

[Keef]

That's not racist, it's true. Slavers did breed their workers. If anything, the person who offered that explanation is trying to correct the racism of the other guy who apparently wonders why so many sports players are black. Or not, but at least he's aware.

Another true point is that most black Americans today, especially in the South, are descended from slaves. When is the last time you heard a black person with an obviously African last name who wasn't actually an immigrant or refugee? @Noob616 just mentioned in a post above yours about a black hockey player named Evander Kane. Kane? Kane is an Irish name. Black people aren't native to Ireland. The name Kane was given to Evander's ancestors, likely by an Irish slaver named Kane. It's pretty wild when you think about it, that there were so many slaves in this country at one point that most black people you know today are descended from them.

People like LeBron James, Shaquille O'Neal and Michael Jordan don't just happen. Like anybody else their traits are inherited from their parents and when provided a good environment they will stand out. In their cases, size and physical prowess were prominent.

 

[Johnnypenso]

That's not racist, it's true. Slavers did breed their workers. If anything, the person who offered that explanation is trying to correct the racism of the other guy who apparently wonders why so many sports players are black. Or not, but at least he's aware.

Another true point is that most black Americans today, especially in the South, are descended from slaves. When is the last time you heard a black person with an obviously African last name who wasn't actually an immigrant or refugee? @Noob616 just mentioned in a post above yours about a black hockey player named Evander Kane. Kane? Kane is an Irish name. Black people aren't native to Ireland. The name Kane was given to Evander's ancestors, likely by an Irish slaver named Kane. It's pretty wild when you think about it, that there were so many slaves in this country at one point that most black people you know today are descended from them.

People like LeBron James, Shaquille O'Neal and Michael Jordan don't just happen. Like anybody else their traits are inherited from their parents and when provided a good environment they will stand out. In their cases, size and physical prowess were prominent.

Thank you for this example of why it's important to see beyond the hyperbole and understand history. Sometimes the truth does sound outrageous and so bizarre it can't possibly be true..but it is.

 

[demonchilde]

I was just a bystander for that whole thing, and yeah I admit I was very shocked when I heard it.

I thought it was a good thing to bring up, seeing how the last couple pages were going.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Love him or hate him, Charles Barkley often makes a lot of sense on a lot of issues, especially this on locker room behaviour and the use of racial slurs, sexist remarks and more:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial&hpt=hp_t3

 

[demonchilde]

I'm probably going to get s**t on for saying this, and any of you who have read my posts knows I'm no racist, but seriously, there is a double standard that is NOT helping the situation here. Let me explain;

This goes for minoritys, women, religions, or any other group who has experienced separatism and seeks equality among society as a whole;
If you want to be treated equally, for Gods sake, stop constantly making yourselves exceptions, and flat out TELLING people your NOT equal. What kind of moronic sense does that make?

Women, who want to be equal to men, should not have special laws that single them out. If your equal, then whatever laws in question should apply the exact same to both men and women.
Minorities, should not have special things and rights that do not also apply to the public as a whole in the exact same reguard. I mean, common ****ing sense;
Group A wants to be considered equal to Group B. And then proceeds to tell everyone how "were nothing like group B" and let me tell everyone how were seperate every chance I get. But if you don't ignore me and treat me the same, i'm going to sue you in court. GTFO.

Want to be equal? Fine, now get rid your United Negro College Fund, because if I stared a group called United Whitey College Fund and only gave money to 'white folk' the racist flags would be breaking down my door. Well? Stop the double standard.
Same rights, for all people of every category that fall under the phrase "human", and those rights applying the exact way to everyone. Is this hard? Seems to me if anything it would be less paperwork, lol.

The day I get my Argyll sweater on, drive my beamer down to the country club, get a martini and walk up to my upperclass "bitchs n hoes" and say, "whatz up Kracka's", you can call me a hypocrite. But until then, why can't we all just get along? Lol.

 

[Encyclopedia]

While I agree in principle with what (I think) you're trying to say, sometimes there might have to be something extra done in order to break the imbalance between groups. While treating everyone completely equal on all levels is how things should be in a perfect world, it might not help in actually creating equality, at least not by itself. You also have to think about things like racism (which I would argue exists in everyone to some extent) and how people tend to look to the interests of their own group foremost, which helps perpetuate the imbalance. Then there's also the fact that there's not an equal starting point which I believe adds to the problem.

It's a complicated subject really, and I find that my grasp on it is really poor. So I hope that I'm making at least some sense.

Edit: I guess what I'm trying to say is basically, giving a group that didn't have equal rights equal rights, doesn't magically remove the already established imbalance.

Edit2: I'm not trying to make a case for any particular method of removing imbalance by the way. I'm just saying I don't think it's as easy as everyone getting the same rights and all the imbalance between groups goes away.

 

[hogger129]

http://www.prisonplanet.com/oprah-winfrey-obama-is-victim-of-racism-racists-just-have-to-die.html

If you want to talk about racism, come look at this article right here. Why do some folks keep bringing it up all the time whenever things don't go their way? Oprah thinks that racism is the reason she is a bad actor or that Obama is a bad president. If it was, then wouldn't anyone who is a critic of Mel Gibson or George Bush be a racist?

I know if I don't get my way or I perform poorly at my job, I don't blame it on racism.

Winfrey mentioned the time when U.S. Rep. Joe Wilson, R-S.C., called Obama a liar while the president was delivering a speech to Congress.

I wonder if she missed the entire Obamacare debacle where he said that if you liked your insurance, you could keep it. Not surprising though. Most of his supporters will just blame anything but the law (such as insurance companies), yet forget that the law forced them to change their policies to meet Federal standards.

Isn't a liar a liar regardless of the color of their skin? The fact that she is defending a liar because that liar is black, is racism.

 

[Encyclopedia]

What's your point? And what's her acting ability have to do with anything?

 

[Keef]

What's your point? And what's her acting ability have to do with anything?

His point is that Oprah has played the racist card in situations where it's not applicable.

I could mention that I've observed some black people playing the racist card way more often than any white people about really silly things. Stuff like not getting served promptly in a restaurant. Usually it's some grumpy old lady who's still waiting on her forty acres.

 

[Encyclopedia]

His point is that Oprah has played the racist card in situations where it's not applicable.

I could mention that I've observed some black people playing the racist card way more often than any white people about really silly things. Stuff like not getting served promptly in a restaurant. Usually it's some grumpy old lady who's still waiting on her forty acres.

Ok then. Maybe it's sometimes a kind of side effect of being subject to racism throughout their lifetime and not always a "card" so to speak. I'm thinking that it could sometimes be truthfully meant even if it's incorrect.

 

[demonchilde]

To this day, I've never met a slave. Also never met a slave owner.
Not even the grandparents of anyone I met was a slave or owner.
Have I met "poor people" that society seems to make almost impossible for them to make it out of the ghetto? Yeah, a lot of them, as I've lived in both the Bronx, NY, as well as south Providence, RI.
Were they mostly black? Nope.
Actually, very equally mixed of black-white-Mexican-Asian-Irish-Italian-Vietnamese-Cambodian, ect.

Have I seen blatent racism in those citys?
Yeah, mostly groups of Mexicans, who dislike asains. (Seriously, its a territory thing I guess)
And blacks who are raised to distrust anyone not black. Columbians I've met are very anti-mexican as well. Oh, and most of all, the Jewish communities in NY treat anyone not Jewish like they don't even exist (and worse). Again, this isn't ALL of them, this is just a kinda "more then 1/2 of each above group that I've personally met or dealt with"
I however, lol, have met very few white people who were anti-anything.
Untill, that is, I moved to backwoods Maine. I find its odd, that in a community that is 95% white, I have met more racist white people, then in the communities that I lived where there were actually very mixed.

By reading everyone's posts, it must be different in other places around the country.

 

[Keef]

Ok then. Maybe it's sometimes a kind of side effect of being subject to racism throughout their lifetime and not always a "card" so to speak. I'm thinking that it could sometimes be truthfully meant even if it's incorrect.

Does that mean that us white people can starting playing the race card whenever a minority get preferential treatment due to "affirmative action" laws which occur all the time? Even student financial aid. I don't get as much as some of my hispanic friends and it has nothing to do with income but specifically because I'm white. White guilt has caused white people to vote themselves the short end of the stick.

By reading everyone's posts, it must be different in other places around the country.

Racism is rampant in the Midwest but that's mostly because people settled on working for GM before they graduated high school and over the years steadily realized how bad their lives sucked until they got laid off at 60 and have no other skills to get a non-union job. So they just blame whoever for their own shortsightedness. Especially black people and democrats.

 

[Encyclopedia]

Does that mean that us white people can starting playing the race card whenever a minority get preferential treatment due to "affirmative action" laws which occur all the time? Even student financial aid. I don't get as much as some of my hispanic friends and it has nothing to do with income but specifically because I'm white. White guilt has caused white people to vote themselves the short end of the stick.

I didn't mean anything. I was basically thinking out loud about the "race card" and why it's used. I wasn't making an argument for anything really.

I can obviously not see things from the perspective of minorities in America, but maybe if you face racism in everyday life (something completely alien to me personally, lucky for me), it's perhaps easy to see other negative things as the product of racism as well, even if they aren't. I'd probably be a bitter person and suspicious of other peoples intent if I were in their shoes.

This is just the thoughts of a person who has absolutely no idea of what he's talking about though (how could I possibly?).

 

[hogger129]

I didn't mean anything. I was basically thinking out loud about the "race card" and why it's used. I wasn't making an argument for anything really.

I can obviously not see things from the perspective of minorities in America, but maybe if you face racism in everyday life (something completely alien to me personally, lucky for me), it's perhaps easy to see other negative things as the product of racism as well, even if they aren't. I'd probably be a bitter person and suspicious of other peoples intent if I were in their shoes.

This is just the thoughts of a person who has absolutely no idea of what he's talking about though (how could I possibly?).

Going back to my post on Oprah, what racism does she face every day? What racism to many minorities in America face every day? I think race issues are largely behind us here in America. There is equal opportunity. No one is held back because of their race.

 

[Encyclopedia]

Going back to my post on Oprah, what racism does she face every day? What racism to many minorities in America face every day? I think race issues are largely behind us here in America. There is equal opportunity. No one is held back because of their race.

For Oprah, probably not much, except being told to leave some fancy store in Switzerland (I think it was) that a bag was too expensive. Which may or may not have had anything to do with racism.

As for the other bit, what makes you say that?

 

[hogger129]

For Oprah, probably not much, except being told to leave some fancy store in Switzerland (I think it was) that a bag was too expensive. Which may or may not have had anything to do with racism.

As for the other bit, what makes you say that?

Well I mean you look at the times in our country when racism was alive and well (Jim Crow). Nobody is told to sit in separate parts of the restaurant, use separate restrooms, sit in the back of the bus, or are denied jobs based on their race. If anything, I think they have an advantage over white folks. White folks don't get scholarships based on race. There are no quotas for hiring whites. We have had to do everything by our own blood, sweat and tears.

 

[Blitz24]

There is an unspoken rule (and I really hate saying this) but every person does have their own limitations in terms of words they can use. I cannot go walk up to someone and use the "n-word" without being looked at as inappropriate or racist. In fact, sadly, too many times a minority will claim racism when it doesn't exist.

 

[Encyclopedia]

Well I mean you look at the times in our country when racism was alive and well (Jim Crow). Nobody is told to sit in separate parts of the restaurant, use separate restrooms, sit in the back of the bus, or are denied jobs based on their race. If anything, I think they have an advantage over white folks. White folks don't get scholarships based on race. There are no quotas for hiring whites. We have had to do everything by our own blood, sweat and tears.

That doesn't mean racism is behind you at all though. Only perhaps "officially". Don't you think that African americans would have come further if that was the case?

There is an unspoken rule (and I really hate saying this) but every person does have their own limitations in terms of words they can use. I cannot go walk up to someone and use the "n-word" without being looked at as inappropriate or racist. In fact, sadly, too many times a minority will claim racism when it doesn't exist.

Ermm....what?

 

[hogger129]

There is an unspoken rule (and I really hate saying this) but every person does have their own limitations in terms of words they can use. I cannot go walk up to someone and use the "n-word" without being looked at as inappropriate or racist. In fact, sadly, too many times a minority will claim racism when it doesn't exist.

Why is it acceptable for anyone to use that word?

That doesn't mean racism is behind you at all though. Only perhaps "officially". Don't you think that African americans would have come further if that was the case?



Ermm....what?

The president of our country is half-black for crying out loud. There is no glass ceiling anymore.

 

[Blitz24]

Ermm....what?

Meaning that some words only a certain group of people can say.