Racism - Ignored?

[Encyclopedia]

Why is it acceptable for anyone to use that word?


The president of our country is half-black for crying out loud. There is no glass ceiling anymore.

I actually anticipated that answer.Isn't it quite often used to prove that racism is somehow a thing of the past in America? I don't think it is.

Meaning that some words only a certain group of people can say.

Context can mean a lot sometimes. I'm not saying youi should be prohibited by law, but you have to accept that it might rile some people up. Because history.

 

[demonchilde]

If you knew the word "flaglespew" causes a lot of people to be angry for whatever reason, and some even become violent, then you wouldn't use it.
This has nothing to do with 'rights' and 'freedoms', this has to do with common sense.
Flaglespew + verbally spoken = possible broken bones.
A + B = C

As far as society thinking it's OK if some types of people to use the word, . . . Bulls**t.
They do NOT.
Even among most black people, the word is shunned. And in any kind of community setting, even those who say it joking with their friends tend to back off the word. Everyone black and not black knows the word is taboo. Most of the people who DO use it, use it jokingly, and like the C word, wouldn't use it around anyone but close friends.
Now, some use it as a brand. they are proud to be calling each other the word, which I've never understood, why anyone would be proud to be " the word describes an ignorant, uneducated, foolish individual regardless of race, color, religion, sexual orientation, etc."
So if someone wants to label themselves that, fine, it will be easier for me to choose who to take seriously in public.

 

[LeMansAid]

Since you mentioned that you're okay with stereotyping - I am too - I'll just be blunt and remind you that the physical superiority of blacks is not an assumption, or at least wasn't. Surely you remember that American slavers bred blacks to be bigger, stronger and fit enough to do as much work as possible in the shortest amount of time. I'd argue that whites are only good at things like tennis and golf but even those aren't good examples. Swimming, maybe? Black people don't swim because slavers often drowned them as punishment so I guess that's all we have.

Not always, but I do tend to choose my words carefully. I wrote "sports superiority", which involves many more facets than just physicality. There's been plenty of selective breeding throughout all races, just not in such a condensed time frame.

Sight unseen, I'd go for:
Black for athleticism
White for mental toughness
Asian for learning the violin
34 year old over an 18 year old for renting my house
Jazz fan over a rap fan for writing my eulogy
.....I could go on.

We make these calls all the time, and I think it's healthy to be proved wrong. Yet we kind of can't have that genuine growth if we are all busy pretending that we have no prejudice.

There is a difference between the neighborhood boys getting together for some football in the park and a commericialized event. The audience of sport expects to see a winner and a loser, and the organizer is expected to provide that. People don't pay to see equality, they pay to see a winner. It's the nature of organized sport to either win or lose and to organize such an event based solely on race is to suggest there is a winner and loser.

So let there be a winner. What's the big deal?

To some degree I put it down to what I'd call: offensive acceptance vs inoffensive tolerance. I wouldn't want to be merely tolerated, and I don't want that for others. I'll quote myself from another thread to save typing out the story again:

I believe in working towards less sensitivity (not insensitivity), rather than getting caught up in the unending web of over-sensitivity. The southern Europeans have given anglo-Australia some wonderful gifts since migrating from around 1950 onwards. However, I think that their most amazing gift was putting up with and ultimately embracing the derogatory term "***", and the accompanying prejudice and slights. The term has been gradually diffused by the prejudice's victims, and allowed anglo-Australia's often irreverent nature to become useful. I remember hearing an interview with author Thomas Keneally where he quoted a migrant European/Australian. They apparently said something like "You Australians are funny people. I come to Australia and you don't like me so much, you call me *** bastard. Then you you start to like me more, and you call me *** bastard". The negative power had been completely removed.

For me, mere tolerance is all too static, and perhaps gives the appearance of change more so than actual change. I maintain that getting it out in the open is better, and that a black vs white game would show that we are moving past the inoffensive tolerance fad that we seem to be living with.

You're perfectly happy to say that all the other races do various things better than white people. But are you perfectly happy to admit that no race on the planet is as good at getting others to do what they say other than white people? Admit to me that white people are the ones who make the decisions on how this world is run and I'll be satisfied you aren't full of white guilt.

Pretty much, yeah.

 

[Chad Daddy]

Umm.... Racism is bad, M'kay?

 

[demonchilde]

Lemansaid said;
" Jazz fan over a rap fan for writing my eulogy "

Haha !!
Could be my N.Y. (bronx) years coming out in me, but I wish Notorious BIG was still alive. Of everyone, I'd want him to write my eulogy. If not him, then maybe Bob Dylan.

 

[Furinkazen]

This happened this weekend, and it started on my street and continued. The distance this stretched for is around 10 minutes of walking. Quite an achievement how no-one noticed.
http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/10816015.Racist_graffiti_attack_in_Blackburn/?ref=mr

Noticed an interesting and debatable (to me) comment in there afterwards

"Im not racist and attend many indian and Pakistani houses and I would have to say in all the houses ive been the Indians respect there property more then Pakistan houses, not all but the majority...
.. My biggest concern is whites are moving out and think this will almost happen in the next 10 years, ive spoken to a few Asians and many are moving over here from Belgium and neighbouring countries due to there own laws taking a no nonsense attitude.

I went shopping in Blackburn town centre weekend and was shocked how many muslims, polish, Iraqis ect there where. Something must be done with immigration and only let people who can speak English ect."




Sorry but I got to disagree strongly with the last part. Our government has been a little lax on immigration yes. But why would you be "shocked how many muslims, polish, Iraqis ect there where"?

Point of it is my town is multicultural. Also the speaking english argument doesn;t wash well for me. I've experienced this on a personal level. Friend of mine couldn't speak english when first arrived in this country. She learnt and learnt and she had to live in this country. I know Muslims, Iraqis, and Polish. If you don't know a language day to day life is impossible. For sure in the asian areas say, punjabi / gujarati might be the most spoken language. But doesn't change fact main core of town is english shops, english language.

So really, the whole argument about people who can only speak english doesn't wash with me.

 

[Keef]

Could be my N.Y. (bronx) years coming out in me, but I wish Notorious BIG was still alive. Of everyone, I'd want him to write my eulogy. If not him, then maybe Bob Dylan.

I'm thinking KRS for mine. We both agree, who better to write a speech than a poet?

 

[DG_Silva]

So really, the whole argument about people who can only speak english doesn't wash with me.

If I went to live in a country, and make it my permanent residence, would it not be unreasonable for the local population to assume that I could conduct most of my business in the mother tongue? If I went to live in France, Italy, Japan, wherever, it would be unreasonable to expect people to alter their communication systems to suit me. So why should it be acceptable for migrants to be able to enter a country and be able to make full use of their services, without the requisite levels of communication? I accept that there is no better way to learn a language than to immerse yourself in that language, and so learn in that country, but surely a level of communication that is sufficient to be able to set yourself up as a resident of that country should be considered a minimum standard?

----------------------------

Changing the tack of the conversation slightly, I'd like to bring my own experiences of racism. I live in Birmingham, which has the highest levels of racial mixing of nearly any city, whole areas are given over to certain communities (which is something I disagree with, it only encourages racial segregation), and I see the tensions that it brings on a daily basis (exacerbated by my job, I work in a betting shop). I was subject to a hate crime, in fact several, repeatedly, by a group of asian-origin lads, based on my sexuality, and the opinion of the local police force was that it was anti-social behaviour, and not hate crime, simply because of the race of the offenders.

This has probably been brought up before, but in Birmingham we have a Black Police Federation, we have a Black Managers' Organisation (for those managing units/buildings/departments/organisations within the local council), and we have events promoting black and asian sub-continent workers and cultures. Now all of this I have no issue with, as long as white origin staff are allowed the same opportunities, but the local council has made it absolutely plain that any kind of attempt to provide the same level of support, or similar events for white members of staff (particularly for British-origin staff) would be classed as racist and illegal, but white British staff are not even allowed to enter these event, or join such organisations, and are certainly not invited to anything which might even benefit them.

Whilst we are talking about the Birmingham City Council, the BCC has a list of words and phrases that have banned, and could result in disciplinary action being taken if they are said within earshot of a manager. I won't list them here, but I'm sure you can guess what they are. As far as BCC is concerned, racism only happens one way...

 

[KSaiyu]

Sorry but I got to disagree strongly with the last part. Our government has been a little lax on immigration yes. But why would you be "shocked how many muslims, polish, Iraqis ect there where"?

Point of it is my town is multicultural. Also the speaking english argument doesn;t wash well for me. I've experienced this on a personal level. Friend of mine couldn't speak english when first arrived in this country. She learnt and learnt and she had to live in this country. I know Muslims, Iraqis, and Polish. If you don't know a language day to day life is impossible. For sure in the asian areas say, punjabi / gujarati might be the most spoken language. But doesn't change fact main core of town is english shops, english language.

So really, the whole argument about people who can only speak english doesn't wash with me.

The other argument, and the really important point is where does it end? I can honestly say, as a mixed race male who, legally, can say doesn't have a white British parent that the most racist people I've encountered are blacks and asians. Continue to allow people who can't speak English and there won't be an end to it. As a reference I live on the border of Greenford and Southall, and know first hand multi culturism is a lie. People naturally want to preserve their own cultures, but the way it is today this attitude is fine for everyone apart from white people. That by definition is racist.

 

[Encyclopedia]

The other argument, and the really important point is where does it end? I can honestly say, as a mixed race male who, legally, can say doesn't have a white British parent that the most racist people I've encountered are blacks and asians. Continue to allow people who can't speak English and there won't be an end to it. As a reference I live on the border of Greenford and Southall, and know first hand multi culturism is a lie. People naturally want to preserve their own cultures, but the way it is today this attitude is fine for everyone apart from white people. That by definition is racist.

In what way are white people not allowed to preserve their culture?

 

[demonchilde]

I never understood this culture thing anyway. I mean, I am/my family is/ predominantly Scottish. My father was the first born in the USA as a matter of fact. And we celibrate many customs both Scottish and Celtic. I consider this, as me preserving my culture.
I can see African-American's and Africans celebrating and observing their customs as well. Russians, Italians, Asian's, ect, all "preserve their culture" by observing their cultural holidays and beliefs.

Since when is you skin color a culture? What does how tan I am have anything to do with where my bloodline comes from? It doesn't.
People have been freely using this phrase a lot in the past few pages, I just want to point out, be aware of the terminology. "Culture" is not skin color.

 

[Bopop4]

Disgusting.

I honestly don't know how he hasn't been shot yet.



lol

 

[Northstar]

I can't help but wonder how scripted those talk shows are, it just seems a little too convenient that they have a white supremacist who happens to be 14% black on the show.

 

[Bopop4]

There's a whole bunch of related news articles on it, just Google his name.

 

[LeMansAid]

Extreme racism against blacks is part of my stereotype of Australia. I see it as a much more widespread thing than the regional problems we have in the US.

I forgot to ask how/why you formed this opinion.

If Keef is not around or chooses not to respond, what are others' impressions in regards to Australia and racism? The suggestion of widespread extreme racism took me by surprise to be honest.

 

[Beeker1972]

It's bad when I can't say what I really want to say, because I'm looking for a job, and future employers will look me up on Google, and find me on this site spouting off something that would make me look like a fool! Racism is in the United States is a complete utter joke, and used by some people to destroy others they deemed unworthy is some way.

 

[LeMansAid]

Racism is in the United States is a complete utter joke

I know, there's not enough. We demand more racism. More ra-cism!! more ra-cism!!

 

[Encyclopedia]

It's bad when I can't say what I really want to say, because I'm looking for a job, and future employers will look me up on Google, and find me on this site spouting off something that would make me look like a fool! Racism is in the United States is a complete utter joke, and used by some people to destroy others they deemed unworthy is some way.

Well some employers don't like racists. It's not so strange.

 

[Carbonox]

White-to-black racism? Nope, it's not being ignored at all.

Black-to-white? The media around here likes to pretend it doesn't exist.

 

[Encyclopedia]

White-to-black racism? Nope, it's not being ignored at all.

Black-to-white? The media around here likes to pretend it doesn't exist.

I feel it's kind of like that here too, which is a shame. All racism should be spoken up ap against. However I suppose you could argue that structural racism is the worst kind of racism. And that's the kind that affects minorities.

 

[FiLaM1989]

People find racism today to be absurd, outright outrageous, and non-existent. Today, it's taboo to pull the race card on anybody.

I strongly believe this not to be true. No one's saying it doesn't exist but for anybody thinking the race card is taboo, wake up; racism still exists. Plain and simple.

Do you believe that racism can be so subtle (with you not noticing) that someone with power--be it at a national, state, local, or even business level--can influence you and/or the way you live according to their racial bias?

I define "racism" as hatred to another bipedal species. Ethnicism, colorism, genderism, ageism, discrimination based on national origins and discrimination based on sexual orientations do exist. However, they aren't going to go away. The US has voted Russia unfavorable after that Boylston St. Bombing last year. Only the politicians of US and Russia have kept the relationship stable, but the citizens of both countries don't. It's 1980s all over again.

 

[Imari]

I define "racism" as hatred to another bipedal species.

Are you sure "species" is the word you want to use there? Are you using it to describe hatred of chimpanzees or what?

Race has a specific meaning, as does racism, and it's not describing hatred to monkeys.

If Keef is not around or chooses not to respond, what are others' impressions in regards to Australia and racism? The suggestion of widespread extreme racism took me by surprise to be honest.

I have no experience to compare to the U.S., but racism in Australia feels pretty strong to me compared to say, New Zealand.

There's a lot of white Australians that still view the Aborigines as work-shy bludgers who sniff petrol and beat up their children, largely fuelled by a few Aborigine communities that do just that. The Aborigines still resent the colonial settlers for disrupting their way of life, the Stolen Generations, and the general impression that Aborigines are being held back.

Then there's all the other groups we have over here. Communities of Greeks, Macedonians, Lebanese, Vietnamese, Chinese, Thai, Somalian, Italian, you name it they're probably here somewhere. It's not like when there's just a few of a foreign ethnicity in a majority and they're sort of forced to integrate. There's enough to form solid communities where some of the people have been in Australia for decades and still don't speak English. They become little countries in their own right, and you get people like my boss saying 🤬 like "I wouldn't want to live there, that's the *** suburb".

Buggered if I know what anyone is supposed to do about it though. Heaps of people want to come to Australia, but they all want it to be just like wherever they're from but with better jobs and nice beaches. Conflicts are bound to happen.

 

[FiLaM1989]

Are you sure "species" is the word you want to use there? Are you using it to describe hatred of chimpanzees or what?

Race has a specific meaning, as does racism, and it's not describing hatred to monkeys.

No, I do not use the word "racism" to describe hatred of monkeys, humanity, skin color, national origins and ethnicity. We are actually descended from apes. We won't know until the future, the whole universe may come with robots and other bipedal species outside our planet. I'm going to state this as a theory:

In the near future when Masahiro Mori is making a horde of robots that look like humans and think like humans, this will definitely change the world. Then we will be expecting uncanny valley once he continues to experiment these "scrapheads". Once the robots are mastered to look and think like humans, you will seriously get what I mean; a new race of hollow children. Do we go on to hate robots as an act of racism in the future?

 

[Imari]

No, I do not use the word "racism" to describe hatred of monkeys, humanity, skin color, national origins and ethnicity. We are actually descended from apes. We won't know until the future, the whole universe may come with robots and other bipedal species outside our planet. I'm going to state this as a theory:

In the near future when Masahiro Mori is making a horde of robots that look like humans and think like humans, this will definitely change the world. Then we will be expecting uncanny valley once he continues to experiment these "scrapheads". Once the robots are mastered to look and think like humans, you will seriously get what I mean; a new race of hollow children. Do we go on to hate robots as an act of racism in the future?

I'm still not entirely sure I understand your definition of racism, but tell me why it needed changing? What was wrong with racism referring to race? Can't hating people (or robots, or whatever) on the basis of something that's not race have it's own word?

 

[FiLaM1989]

Because there's nothing wrong with the word "racism". Hominids are a race; not a nationality, skin color or whatever you guys call something. I believe what you guys use the word for is human classification. To me, the supremacists are not what I call "racists", they are people who radically follow their heritage. You can call them racists, I can call them envious and prideful jerkfaces. Well, discrimination isn't going away. That's what these people are willing to think for pride.

 

[Imari]

Because there's nothing wrong with the word "racism". Hominids are a race; not a nationality, skin color or whatever you guys call something. I believe what you guys use the word for is human classification. To me, the supremacists are not what I call "racists", they are people who radically follow their heritage. You can call them racists, I can call them envious and prideful jerkfaces. Well, discrimination isn't going away. That's what these people are willing to think for pride.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Race

race (reɪs)
n
1. (Anthropology & Ethnology) a group of people of common ancestry, distinguished from others by physical characteristics, such as hair type, colour of eyes and skin, stature, etc. Principal races are Caucasoid, Mongoloid, and Negroid
2. (Anthropology & Ethnology) the human race human beings collectively
3. (Biology) a group of animals or plants having common characteristics that distinguish them from other members of the same species, usually forming a geographically isolated group; subspecies
4. a group of people sharing the same interests, characteristics, etc: the race of authors.
5. play the race card to introduce the subject of race into a public discussion, esp to gain a strategic advantage

Or for more reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_classification)


Hominids are not all of the same race, they are related but distinct species. Hominid is a type of family, which can include many different species or genera. Read more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_(biology)

The only currently extant members of the hominid family are homo sapiens, so in a sense the modern hominid is synonymous with homo sapiens. Which means if you say that "race" = "human", that takes away all that makes the word "race" useful. "Race" is useful as a descriptor of differences in heritage between groups of humans. We already have lots of words for the group of humans as a whole.


Just because you wish people weren't so nasty to each other, doesn't mean you get to change the meaning of words. Please educate yourself on the meaning of the words you're using.

 

[FiLaM1989]

Just because you wish people weren't so nasty to each other, doesn't mean you get to change the meaning of words.

Meh, the whole world is full of bad people. Besides, I didn't wish for people to be nice to each other. If they want to discriminate, that's okay for them; I don't care. LEAVE THEM BE.

Please educate yourself on the meaning of the words you're using.

How about "please tell me why am I listening to you"? Look, even though I am human, humans are stupid, but we are smart enough to know it.

 

[BobK]

Seriously, dude, you need to take a course or two in basic biology and anthropology. Or haven't you got that far in your schooling yet?

 

[Famine]

How about "please tell me why am I listening to you"?

It's your choice who you respond to and why, so only you can really answer. But listening is the one thing you aren't doing.

Hominids are a family of genera, not a species or a race. Hominids are "the great apes" - humans, chimpanzees, gorillas and orangutans. Each of these four genera has multiple species - extant and extinct - including the Bornean orangutan Pongo pygmaeus (from the subfamily Ponginae), the Western gorilla Gorilla gorilla, the Bonobo Pan paniscus and the human Homo sapiens.

 

[Liquid]

As well, isn't this:

We are actually descended from apes.

equally inaccurate?

I thought we shared common ancestry rather than a direct descent. That is, apes are more like our cousins than father or grandfather.