Racism - Ignored?

[Keef]

As well, isn't this:



equally inaccurate?

I thought we shared common ancestry rather than a direct descent. That is, apes are more like our cousins than father or grandfather.

This. We evolved from common ancestry and adapted to different environments over time. Thus, we still exist on the Earth at the same time, in different places.

 

[FiLaM1989]

Seriously, dude, you need to take a course or two in basic biology and anthropology. Or haven't you got that far in your schooling yet?

Hey pal, that's all the biology I know in high school. They didn't tell me more about hominids. Whatever they taught me back there sucks eggs. Hell, our education system sucks too.

This. We evolved from common ancestry and adapted to different environments over time. Thus, we still exist on the Earth at the same time, in different places.

Yeah, that explains it. Anyways, this is interesting: http://humphrysfamilytree.com/ca.html

Hominids are a family of genera, not a species or a race. Hominids are "the great apes" - humans, chimpanzees, gorillas and orangutans. Each of these four genera has multiple species - extant and extinct - including the Bornean orangutan Pongo pygmaeus (from the subfamily Ponginae), the Western gorilla Gorilla gorilla, the Bonobo Pan paniscus and the human Homo sapiens.

Is there any more facts that we are not species? Using Wikipedia isn't going to help.

 

[Keef]

Is there any more facts that we are not species? Using Wikipedia isn't going to help.

@Famine just explained that humans - Homo sapiens - are a species. The word "race" is used to classify differences within a species, and the term is used for many different species, everything from plants to animals. Things like anatomical, geographical, and in humans cultural differences are used to organize races within the same species. The science of "race" is ever-changing, especially in our modern world where people from all over the world can travel to other parts and intermingle with other races. That didn't used to be the case.

 

[DK]

Something tells me FiLaM has been whacked with the banhammer, so it's pointless answering him.

 

[Carbonox]

Something tells me FiLaM has been whacked with the banhammer, so it's pointless answering him.

I'd say it happened hours ago, and as a bonus he got a bunch of messages removed.

 

[JAHHAJ]

I've read the OP and the second post and I agree that everyone is racist to a degree, I admit even I am racist, I wouldn't go up to say a black person and say the n word. People in politics in this country want to squash racism but it's impossible, especially when they are letting more immigrants in the country just makes people become more racist an against these immigrants no matter what race they are. People wonder why rappers say the n word all the time, when the police themselves are racist against these people and arrest them for just being a certain race (yes I believe this is still the case in some countries). Racism is bigger than just throwing round the n word and it's impossible to stop people saying that let alone stopping people from saying and doing all the other racist things in my opinion.

 

[Encyclopedia]

Yes racism is probably an inherent part of humanity. It should still be fought though.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I've read the OP and the second post and I agree that everyone is racist to a degree, I admit even I am racist, I wouldn't go up to say a black person and say the n word. People in politics in this country want to squash racism but it's impossible, especially when they are letting more immigrants in the country just makes people become more racist an against these immigrants no matter what race they are. People wonder why rappers say the n word all the time, when the police themselves are racist against these people and arrest them for just being a certain race (yes I believe this is still the case in some countries). Racism is bigger than just throwing round the n word and it's impossible to stop people saying that let alone stopping people from saying and doing all the other racist things in my opinion.

I agree that to some extent racism is natural. It's a natural feeling to some degree to have some distrust or discomfort concerning people not like you. Growing up I didn't know anyone who was anything other than white or European, mostly Italian. I was in my teens before I met an Asian or Black person so I never had the experience of disliking anyone because of the colour of their skin. But as kids we hated people from other neighbourhoods because they were "different" from us. We hated people that lived on the other side of the main road in our neighbourhood because they were "different". And we fought, with fists only of course, but there were many bloody battles both spontaneous and arranged because we disliked each other so much. Had they been Black or Hispanic or Asians we would have been labelled "racists" I suppose in this day and age, but the truth is, anyone who we perceived as different, real or imagined, was cause for conflict. At the time it felt perfectly natural and justified and I imagine that some people never grow out of that after beginning with different adversaries, both real and imagined.

 

[LeMansAid]

I have no experience to compare to the U.S., but racism in Australia feels pretty strong to me compared to say, New Zealand.

New Zealanders do seem to like vaunting their supposed credentials, but I don't buy it. Seems more like bite your lip tolerance, rather than actual harmony to me. As I've stated before, I'll take offensive acceptance over inoffensive tolerance.

There's a lot of white Australians that still view the Aborigines as work-shy bludgers who sniff petrol and beat up their children, largely fuelled by a few Aborigine communities that do just that. The Aborigines still resent the colonial settlers for disrupting their way of life, the Stolen Generations, and the general impression that Aborigines are being held back.

Disrupting their way of life? Yeah, I'd be pretty unhappy about that too. That said, I don't know anyone that's even 200 years of age. Stolen generations is indeed a very sad story. Although it should be noted that the intention was to protect, not to cause the unfortunately inevitable hurt. As for being "held back": In the here and now, I think that Aboriginal people in general are their own worst enemies. There are plenty of open doors, they just need to stop running in to the wall next to the door.

Sometimes acceptance is made all the more awkward and difficult by Aboriginal spokespeople. The term "indigenous" has been in vogue in recent times, and I think represents some sort hint at a progression in attitude from non-aboriginals. But I remember some aboriginal elder coming out and annoyedly asserting that "We are not indigenous, we're aboriginal!!". To which I thought "they are the same thing you idiot!!" The net result though, is that people who actually care, find themselves not knowing where to step, for fear of a misstep.

Then there's all the other groups we have over here. Communities of Greeks, Macedonians, Lebanese, Vietnamese, Chinese, Thai, Somalian, Italian, you name it they're probably here somewhere. It's not like when there's just a few of a foreign ethnicity in a majority and they're sort of forced to integrate. There's enough to form solid communities where some of the people have been in Australia for decades and still don't speak English. They become little countries in their own right, and you get people like my boss saying 🤬 like "I wouldn't want to live there, that's the *** suburb".

I wouldn't choose to live in a "*** suburb" either, but mainly due to them generally having poor taste in design and aesthetics. Cream brick with dark brown mortar pointing, arches, and columns abound. And concrete, lots of concrete. Hideous, and offensive to the eye. That shows prejudice on my part, but not really racial prejudice. The ethnicity portion is an inconsequential technicality.

Buggered if I know what anyone is supposed to do about it though. Heaps of people want to come to Australia, but they all want it to be just like wherever they're from but with better jobs and nice beaches. Conflicts are bound to happen.

It could be suggested that to some extent this is a result of the middle class faking their way in as refugees. As in, they're not fleeing persecution or abject poverty, they're just wanting to up their lifestyle. The kind of wages (if you can even call it that) that the poor earn compared to the money required to pay the way on to a boat, it just doesn't stack up that the ones branded "boat people" for example are going to be people in dire need. If they can afford to be a refugee, they're probably not one.

In addition, some homeless people will commit a crime just to go to jail, purely because it's better than living on the the street. Doesn't really make sense then that a person fleeing persecution and poverty would be so utterly disgusted at being held in a detention centre while authorities try to work out who the hell they are. Surely it's as good or better than a jail, and certainly the "horror" that they're supposed to be fleeing.



Lots of words in a response to an oldish post that most people on here won't care about anyway, so don't feel any obligation to give a reply.

 

[Imari]

New Zealanders do seem to like vaunting their supposed credentials, but I don't buy it.

Are you assuming that I'm a New Zealander?

I assume Auckland is pretty much the same as Sydney/Melbourne/Brisbane/Adelaide as far as racism to be honest, but the small size of the other major cities and the small size of the population does make a difference. I'd say there's a certain number of immigrants needed to create a segregated area within a town, be that a Chinatown or a *** suburb or whatever. And most NZ towns and cities simply don't reach the threshold, they're far too small.

If you're 20 Chinese people in a 1000 person town, you can't really form an enclosed suburb. You'll just be 20 people who hang out together a lot, but of necessity you'll have to interact with the rest of the town. If you're 20,000 Chinese in a 1,000,000 person city, you can probably go weeks without seeing a non-Chinese if that's what you want.

Disrupting their way of life? Yeah, I'd be pretty unhappy about that too. That said, I don't know anyone that's even 200 years of age. Stolen generations is indeed a very sad story. Although it should be noted that the intention was to protect, not to cause the unfortunately inevitable hurt. As for being "held back": In the here and now, I think that Aboriginal people in general are their own worst enemies. There are plenty of open doors, they just need to stop running in to the wall next to the door.

Sometimes acceptance is made all the more and awkward and difficult by Aboriginal spokespeople. The term "indigenous" has been in vogue in recent times, and I think represents some sort hint at a progression in attitude from non-aboriginals. But I remember some aboriginal elder coming out and annoyedly asserting that "We are not indigenous, we're aboriginal!!". To which I thought "they are the same thing you idiot!!" The net result though, is that people who actually care, find themselves not knowing where to step, for fear of a misstep.

Agree with most of this. The persecution that Aborigines feel is a perception these days rather than a reality. But it doesn't stop people behaving like arses to each other at the slightest provocation.

I wouldn't choose to live in a "*** suburb" either, but mainly due to them generally having poor taste in design and aesthetics. Cream brick with dark brown mortar pointing, arches, and columns abound. And concrete, lots of concrete. Hideous, and offensive to the eye. That shows prejudice on my part, but not really racial prejudice. The ethnicity portion is an inconsequential technicality.

It's more the fact that *** suburbs exist. And Thai suburbs, and Vietnamese suburbs, and Chinese suburbs, and Somali suburbs, etc. There's lots of communities that are dedicated to making it just like a little piece of wherever they came from, and racial harmony that does not make. And while you're obviously not one of them, there are people who choose not to live in certain suburbs because of the majority race.

Me, I just try and steer away from the ones where the crime rate is unreasonably high, which naturally tends to have me living in white middle-class family territory. But that's not a racism thing either, that's just pragmatism. I like my stuff inside my house, and I like my organs inside me. They do sterling work just where they are.

 

[Famine]

*** suburb

No.

 

[LeMansAid]

Ooh my first naughty. As far as I know.

It's more the fact that *** suburbs exist. And Thai suburbs, and Vietnamese suburbs, and Chinese suburbs, and Somali suburbs, etc. There's lots of communities that are dedicated to making it just like a little piece of wherever they came from, and racial harmony that does not make. And while you're obviously not one of them, there are people who choose not to live in certain suburbs because of the majority race.

Me, I just try and steer away from the ones where the crime rate is unreasonably high, which naturally tends to have me living in white middle-class family territory. But that's not a racism thing either, that's just pragmatism. I like my stuff inside my house, and I like my organs inside me. They do sterling work just where they are.

Hmm, my experience suggests that asterisk suburbs are some of the safest and more family friendly, but I find them boring, and as mentioned, gaudy. I'm quite allergic to feral and gangsta wannabe areas, but I've not found that those have any kind of exclusive ethnicity going on.

Still wondering where this...

Extreme racism against blacks is part of my stereotype of Australia. I see it as a much more widespread thing than the regional problems we have in the US. The idea of a black vs. white sports game is more evidence of it.

.... perception comes from though.

Reading that again I do find it humorous that Keef seems to be suggesting that a black vs. white game is only racist towards black people.

 

[Keef]

Reading that again I do find it humorous that Keef seems to be suggesting that a black vs. white game is only racist towards black people.

I guess it depends on who thinks it's a great idea and who doesn't. Don't act like I can't think on both sides of the fence.

 

[Rage Racer]

I've heard that some people in the West think that Muslims are discriminated and oppressed in Russia.
Anyone here thinks so?

 

[LeMansAid]

I've heard that some people in the West think that Muslims are discriminated and oppressed in Russia.
Anyone here thinks so?

Wouldn't that question belong in a thread for discussing religious discrimination?

 

[Beeker1972]

Hate is Hate it doesn't matter what color your skin is, sexual preference, what deity you worship it's all the same Haters gonna hate!

 

[Rage Racer]

Wouldn't that question belong in a thread for discussing religious discrimination?

This can be related to racism, because religion is usually dependent on nationality... but okay, asked it in another thread.

 

[BobK]

We'll always have race problems so long as what's acceptable vocabulary depends on your race.

 

[LeMansAid]

This can be related to racism, because religion is usually dependent on nationality... but okay, asked it in another thread.

I'm a separation of church and state kinda guy, so it bothers me when people use race (ethnicity) and religion as interchangeable terms.

 

[Danoff]

Racism does exist today. However, the vast majority of racism today occurs in "minority" groups. The list of most racist people I know of in my entire life is composed entirely of Blacks, Hispanics, and Asians.

I do know a few racist white people, but their prejudice pales in comparison.

My own experience is what I'm using as empirical evidence. The racism that I personally have witnessed in my lifetime has come ~90% from minority groups.

Well I'm not sure I feel this way anymore almost 16 years later. The last 5-6 years have seen an explosion of highly visible racism from white people. I definitely did not understand how many racist people are out there until quite recently. I definitely today know white people who are as racist as racist can be, but they wouldn't have shown their true colors (at least not to me) 16 years ago.

I don't know why most of the racism I've seen is from minorities. I don't see any reason why they should engage in such self-destructive behavior - except that as long as they help perpetuate stereotypes they belong to a protected sector of society. Playing the victim can be addictive.

I think I can answer this one too. It's not just about playing the victim. It's that visible racism from white people was not tolerated well socially for a long time (in America)... until recently. But racism from some minority groups has been tolerated for a long time, and is socially acceptable. So it's highly visible from the group that feels justified and accepted for saying it. Case in point, John Oliver's latest segment, which is for the most part quite poignant and entertaining:

John Oliver - Hair WARNING: NSFW Language

Spoiler

At the end, he has a few guest speakers on and they go on a bit of a rant. It's all fun and games (mostly), and is meant to be taken lightly and with humorous intent. At least one of them makes a number of racist statements. Can you imagine the skin colors of the final group being switched to white and them talking about black people in that way? Even today, even in light of the outspoken racism that we see among authoritarians, I cannot imagine that last scene being replayed with white people speaking that way about black people. Many racist white people on TV programs (like Tucker Carlson) still resort to euphemisms like "heritage" and "anglo saxon culture".

We tolerate racism from minority groups so much, and I find it appalling. I found it appalling 16 years ago when I felt compelled to write these... poorly phrased... posts. I still find it appalling today. It's temping to excuse this as a backlash to the rise in outspoken racism from white people in recent years, but it can also encourage outspoken or even merely adopted racism among white people. You can't signal racism in a positive light, as "community" or familial collective, without also encouraging it.

I found the end of John Oliver's segment to be quite distasteful, and a harmful message. And it is appalling to me that we (most of society of all backgrounds) tolerate this, given that we would otherwise instantly recognize how harmful those statements are. Again, I know this is meant to be taken lightly, and I can appreciate racist humor, yes at the expense of white people. But these were not just jokes, they were meant more deeply than that.

 

[HenrySwanson]

Well I'm not sure I feel this way anymore almost 16 years later. The last 5-6 years have seen an explosion of highly visible racism from white people. I definitely did not understand how many racist people are out there until quite recently. I definitely today know white people who are as racist as racist can be, but they wouldn't have shown their true colors (at least not to me) 16 years ago.



I think I can answer this one too. It's not just about playing the victim. It's that visible racism from white people was not tolerated well socially for a long time (in America)... until recently. But racism from some minority groups has been tolerated for a long time, and is socially acceptable. So it's highly visible from the group that feels justified and accepted for saying it. Case in point, John Oliver's latest segment, which is for the most part quite poignant and entertaining:

John Oliver - Hair WARNING: NSFW Language

Spoiler

At the end, he has a few guest speakers on and they go on a bit of a rant. It's all fun and games (mostly), and is meant to be taken lightly and with humorous intent. At least one of them makes a number of racist statements. Can you imagine the skin colors of the final group being switched to white and them talking about black people in that way? Even today, even in light of the outspoken racism that we see among authoritarians, I cannot imagine that last scene being replayed with white people speaking that way about black people. Many racist white people on TV programs (like Tucker Carlson) still resort to euphemisms like "heritage" and "anglo saxon culture".

We tolerate racism from minority groups so much, and I find it appalling. I found it appalling 16 years ago when I felt compelled to write these... poorly phrased... posts. I still find it appalling today. It's temping to excuse this as a backlash to the rise in outspoken racism from white people in recent years, but it can also encourage outspoken or even merely adopted racism among white people. You can't signal racism in a positive light, as "community" or familial collective, without also encouraging it.

I found the end of John Oliver's segment to be quite distasteful, and a harmful message. And it is appalling to me that we (most of society of all backgrounds) tolerate this, given that we would otherwise instantly recognize how harmful those statements are. Again, I know this is meant to be taken lightly, and I can appreciate racist humor, yes at the expense of white people. But these were not just jokes, they were meant more deeply than that.

I'm interested to see what this video is but it's coming up with a "not available in your region" error. Is there another video of it?

 

[TenEightyOne]

I'm interested to see what this video is but it's coming up with a "not available in your region" error. Is there another video of it?

Transcript here (slow loading site, at least it was for me)

 

[Danoff]

Transcript here (slow loading site, at least it was for me)

Interesting, the transcript you posted cuts out the last line before returning to John for his sign off, which is "God damned white people".

Edit:

The transcript also makes it a little difficult to follow who is saying what and with what tone. So one of the guests, lemme see if I can figure it out, Leslie Jones, is the one who said "you can figure out what a box braid is [expletive]" right before that last line, but it's interspersed with the other two guests, which makes it a bit more difficult to read the different tones coming from the guests.

I would not be surprised if at least one of the other two guests didn't take issue with being mashed up with Leslie Jones. I assume (I have not looked it up) that she's a comedian and is pretty free wheeling with her comedy and attitude. I still can't imagine flipping that script.


Edit:

I've had a little more time to think about that Oliver episode, and the longer I sit with it, the worse it gets. The last bit seems to be "hey white people, because you are white, it is not ok to ask questions about or be engaged in any conversation about something unique to black people, like hair", while simultaneously also demanding that beauty salons, presumably with some white people working in them, be fully knowledgeable about black hair, even if very few of their customers are black, simply because they can "google it".

I asked a friend of mine how much sunscreen he uses on his kids because one of my daughters has darker skin, and her skin tone is similar to his kids. Should he have told me to "[expletive] off" or "Google it"? Am I not allowed to engage in these conversations because I have the wrong skin color?

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Does anyone ever read The Root? Talk about inflammatory "journalism". Look at this hit piece on Ellie Kemper...I'm no lawyer, but this seems like its veering pretty close into libel. They are literally calling her out as a "KKK Princess" (which is an extraordinarily dangerous/damaging accusation!) even though the text of their own article does not support that at all.

Cliff notes:
Festival of dubiously racist past was revamped sometime after the 1970s to be inclusive and more generic.
Kemper was awarded a prize from said festival in 1999, which by that time was described as:

Held annually every Fourth of July, usually in downtown St. Louis, Fair St. Louis is a festival that includes food, music, hot-air balloons, and fireworks. Touted as “America’s Biggest Birthday Party”, it’s basically just a fun excuse to enjoy the usually hot and humid St. Louis Fourth of Julys with friends and family.

Racism exists, that much is clear. But grasping at straws to produce an faux-outrage piece like this is in the very least counterproductive. If I was Kemper, I would be eyeing a lawsuit.

 

[TexRex]

 

[GranTurNismo]

Does anyone ever read The Root? Talk about inflammatory "journalism". Look at this hit piece on Ellie Kemper...I'm no lawyer, but this seems like its veering pretty close into libel. They are literally calling her out as a "KKK Princess" (which is an extraordinarily dangerous/damaging accusation!) even though the text of their own article does not support that at all.

Cliff notes:
Festival of dubiously racist past was revamped sometime after the 1970s to be inclusive and more generic.
Kemper was awarded a prize from said festival in 1999, which by that time was described as:



Racism exists, that much is clear. But grasping at straws to produce an faux-outrage piece like this is in the very least counterproductive. If I was Kemper, I would be eyeing a lawsuit.

The Root must have really had it in for Erin.

 

[Raine]

Yeah racism exists and it all races can and will be victims of it and aggressors. I just find it silly when people claim only whites can be racist.

 

[UKMikey]

Individuals are one thing but systemic racism also exists and I can't think of any black-on-white examples outside say Zimbabwe.

 

[Raine]

Systemic racism can go all directions. Sadly at the moment my only sources are news based youtube videos but finding reliable sources from unbiased entities can be tricky though I'll get around to it when I can.





Here's a website link..

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...e-court-to-take-up-harvard-case-idUSKBN2AP2FY

Then there is the white farmer victims by blacks in South Africa. Yet it is tossed aside as a non racist act providing no real explanation for the cause of the violence.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I just find it silly when people claim only whites can be racist.

Quite right too, it's ********.

no real explanation for the cause of the violence.

I wonder if it could be a reaction to the years of apartheid violence? I mean, I don't know, but that seems a pretty real explanation to me.

Yeah racism exists and it all races can and will be victims of it and aggressors.

That sounds casually dismissive but maybe that's just the way I'm reading it.