Save the Manuals!

[Gil]

Okay, I got a wild hair today and went over and test drove the VW today.
It is a fine automobile. Noticed today that the pedals are offset to the right a hair. One would get used to it in short order.

The CC equipped with the 2.0T and six-speed manual is pretty quick. No hot rod, but able to get out of its own way adroitly.

Now, let's talk about the clutch in this car.
First of all, if every car with a manual had a clutch like this EVERYONE would drive a stick shift. Holy crap! A six speed manual with short throws, but not so short that it's hard to tell which gear you're in. Light pedal effort, but plenty of "feel".
I love this car! I like it even more than I liked the Mazdaspeed6 I drove a while back.
I have to admit that I even liked it better than the Infiniti G35 I drove a while back also.

I have a few issues. The roof line, while pretty, is pretty low. But I was expecting that and I didn't dent my right ear getting into the vehicle. I've done that more times than I care to count on both of the Mazda6's we own.
I dig the push-button start, but the "key-gina" is a bit weird.
The V-dub has some cool features that would take me a year to get used to. The pushbutton parking brake, the buttons on the wheel control the Multi-Function display between the gauges, and has TOO MUCH information. You must futz with this thing while the car is sitting still!

Damn fine car though.

 

[Joey D]

Also, autos take a bit of mental work out of the equation since I don't need to think "Am I in first? How long am I going to be sitting here? Should I put it in neutral?" Automatics are simple. Brake to stop. Let off to scoot up.

Relevant:

http://honkhonkpunch.ytmnd.com/

 

[Rotary Junkie]

A brake pedal is lighter than a clutch and doesn't require any sort of finesse. Do we really need to discuss whether or not an automatic is easier to drive in hard traffic than a manual

It depends on the car. I've run into those with clutches so ridiculously light that I wanted to run away, and slushboxes that take a surprising amount of pedal force to hold back. Your car would obviously be much, much easier to drive in traffic as an auto... Mine wouldn't necessarily be much worse than it is now as a stick.

Also, autos take a bit of mental work out of the equation since I don't need to think "Am I in first? How long am I going to be sitting here? Should I put it in neutral?" Automatics are simple. Brake to stop. Let off to scoot up.

Eh, while this is true I don't see it as much of an issue, particularly the "what gear am I in" thing. If I know I'm going to be stopped for a while, I'm already in neutral before I stop. If not, I go neutral-2nd-1st as/once I'm stopped with the clutch in. Habit.

 

[JJ72]

i can't believe we are debating this? really?

lets talk general opinions.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

We already did.

 

[hawkeye122]

What cars are you driving where the clutch is so heavy that it is hard to keep your foot on it? I manage just fine...

 

[niky]

Try holding the clutch down on an STI or a powerful diesel in stop-and-go traffic for two or three hours. It's torture. My last clutch was a "Stage 2" ACT deal, which made it pretty darn stiff. But despite being used to it, every time I have a tester with a heavy clutch, I groan when I get stuck in traffic, because our local jams are killer*.

But this is a case-to-case thing. I've had cars with clutches so light that they require almost no effort to disengage, but hovering in stop-and-go with your foot halfway off-the-floor for two hours, despite not needing to exert too much effort to press that pedal, is still torture akin to squatting and balancing filled teacups in both hands.

I've had trips where I averaged 10 mph over two hours. That's with no stop lasting longer than one or two minutes, interspersed with a whole lot of "creeping".

 

[Azuremen]

What cars are you driving where the clutch is so heavy that it is hard to keep your foot on it? I manage just fine...

And what are you driving? And have you done it in LA rush hour traffic?

 

[MatskiMonk]

We do seem to be overly debating the smaller points here. I think we all agree that manuals have their place, and I don't think anybody has said they'd be happy to see them go. I think this has only become a debate because some of the opinions of the manualists seem pretty narrow-minded, but either way, as has been said countless times, you've got to put your money where you mouth is and buy new manuals if you want to 'save' them.

 

[homeforsummer]

So, aside from moving your left leg or not, what's the difference between holding the car back with the brakes or sitting around with the clutch depressed?

Most modern cars have an incredibly light brake pedal, where only the tiniest bit of pressure is needed to hold the car. Even for cars with a light clutch, like mine, it can be awkward keeping it fully depressed, and even more so continually moving it to and fro over the biting point in creep-stop-creep type traffic. You have to be a lot more precise with the clutch than you do with the brake.

In very slow traffic in a manual, the clutch is literally the only pedal you need to mess with as well... Unless you're driving something so completely torqueless that it cannot move on level ground without throttle... But I've yet to meet that in anything Stateside.

Here in the UK, that very scenario applies. All the cars I've owned will creep just by carefully letting up the clutch, but it's advisable to give them a bit of gas to help them along, particularly if the road is anything other than perfectly level or slightly downhill.

 

[hawkeye122]

And what are you driving? And have you done it in LA rush hour traffic?

Personally, I have driven a 1957 Chevy Pickup with a stock Transmission, clutch, etc in stop and go traffic in the Bay Area, at about 5:45 pm. On a friday. Was it inconvenient? Certainly. But enough so to make me want to drive a different car? No.

Usually I drive a Toyota Camry, or Geo Tracker. The clutches on both are light, but still require some degree of effort to push in. I just dont see what the fuss is about. If you don't like it either A.) Do calf raisers while you're in the shower or B.) Buy a automatic, and don't have any control over how much torque you have, resulting in poor fuel mileage. (That is an outrageous claim, I know. But you get the point)

So many people are turned off to the very thought of owning a manual vehicle because it's "Complicated" or "Hard". My Ex-girlfriend springs to mind, she wanted to purchase a 2001 BMW 3 series, it was at a reasonable price, everything ran well "Oh, but it's a manual." "So what? I can teach you how to drive it" "Yeah, but its like... hard and stuff."

A massive number of newly-licensed (Obtaining their license in the past 3 years) teenagers seem to just not like the manual because it's "Hard". Riding a bike is also "Hard", until you figure it out. It just seems stupid to me that people close down on the idea of a manual, when they could be saving fuel, and money when purchasing said car.

Do I mind if you drive an automatic? Not really, as long as you had the ability to drive a manual if you needed to.

The upside to this trend, as I see it, is exclusivity. When I go off campus and take people with me, many are impressed to some degree that I have this old-fashioned skill which requires tons of effort. I look awesome.

Edit: A bit of a rant, but sort-of on topic.

 

[Ibonibo]

Count me in.

*late to the party as i thought you were talking about either a

or the service notice (manual)*

I want to only buy manuals in my life, but it will be tough in the future as it seems manuals are really in the way of extinction.
A bit ago, I was looking for a new car (@ audi and bmw) but it is already hard to get the config you want and have a manual gearbox (audi S5 3.0 no manual, audi s4 3.0 manual? WTF)

At least I am still lucky as in Europe you mainly learn in manual cars. So we are still not dumming down our people. But in the US manual were always more of an rarity than over here

 

[homeforsummer]

It just seems stupid to me that people close down on the idea of a manual, when they could be saving fuel, and money when purchasing said car.

Just as an aside, but many, if not most, modern autos are more fuel-efficient than their manual counterparts, unless you're really good with a stick. I'm reasonable with a stick (not yet owned a car that's done less than official combined MPG, and I hardly drive like an old lady), but most people aren't - I suspect that many non-car-enthusiasts would actually get better fuel economy with an auto. Even a relatively inefficient one.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Well, BMW are to offer the F10 M5, with 7 speed M-DCT, and 6 speed MT... since the M5 is the only car anyone could ever need... problem solved!

 

[fitftw]

I only drive manual. Girls drive auto. Call me sexist if you want, but I look down upon men with automatic sports cars. It might have something to do with my awesome beard, which is also a manly trait.

 

[MatskiMonk]

I only drive manual. Girls drive auto. Call me sexist if you want, but I look down upon men with automatic sports cars.

I'm suprised you can look down on anybody from you driving seat, probably have to step up to get to the curb!

 

[Ibonibo]

Well not everything is bad in the manual land.

The new porsche has a 7 gear manual gearbox

 

[Zenith]

I don't understand this business of "It works just fine for me. I can manage driving stick in heavy traffic."

Yes of course it works, we're not in the stone age of ergonomics. For someone who just needs their car to transport them (like nearly all car owners) an automatic is superior in every respect.

Just because it works, doesn't mean it can't be made better.

It's like those old men who think that the US military should still be using the M1 Garand rifle because it "worked for them."

Also worth noting that this is not an "Auto vs. Manual" thread. This is a thread about "saving" the manuals.

 

[Boffin]

Well not everything is bad in the manual land.

The new porsche has a 7 gear manual gearbox

I always wonder how that would pan out. Couldn't one be a tad confused with 5th and 7th in a spate of heated driving?

 

[homeforsummer]

I only drive manual. Girls drive auto. Call me sexist if you want, but I look down upon men with automatic sports cars. It might have something to do with my awesome beard, which is also a manly trait.

It's not to do with you being sexist, but it's certainly to do with you being ignorant.

I always wonder how that would pan out. Couldn't one be a tad confused with 5th and 7th in a spate of heated driving?

No more so than going from 2nd to 5th would be, rather than 2nd to 3rd.

From early tests I've read, 7th is apparently a little further over anyway, and it's designed more as a cruising gear.

 

[Zenith]

It's not to do with you being sexist, but it's certainly to do with you being ignorant.

Wait, really? I thought he was being sarcastic and mocking the pseudo-machoism of driving stick. Yeesh.

 

[Boffin]

I only drive manual. Girls drive auto. Call me sexist if you want, but I look down upon men with automatic sports cars. It might have something to do with my awesome beard, which is also a manly trait.

Lol ohhhh the irony. Here in Australia, no matter how big the bulge in your pants is, if you are brandishing the keys to an MX5/Miata/Eunos, you are, scientifically, a girl.

Not my opinion, but Bruce, the steel worker from Cootamundra with his 700hp auto HSV would certainly think that way...

HFS:No more so than going from 2nd to 5th would be, rather than 2nd to 3rd.

From early tests I've read, 7th is apparently a little further over anyway, and it's designed more as a cruising gear.

Usually in a 6 speeder if you left it in open the stick would rest in the middle of 3 and 4? Hence left, up for 1st and right, up for 5th.. with a further notchy pull to the left for reverse. But if it is further away and doesn't feel like 4th to 5th then I guess the driver would notice

 

[homeforsummer]

Wait, really? I thought he was being sarcastic and mocking the pseudo-machoism of driving stick. Yeesh.

Judging from his input in previous, similar topics, unfortunately not.

 

[Murcie_LP640]

Lol ohhhh the irony. Here in Australia, no matter how big the bulge in your pants is, if you are brandishing the keys to an MX5/Miata/Eunos, you are, scientifically, a girl.

Not my opinion, but Bruce, the steel worker from Cootamundra with his 700hp HSV would certainly think that way...

This. My sister owns an MX-5 (Eunos Roadster technically) and her boyfriend had his sexuality questioned multiple times when he was driving it without her in it.

 

[fitftw]

I rarely post on this board. How does anybody remember anything I've said? lol

A manual Miata is still "manlier" than an automatic anything, just on principle of how much more effort and patience it takes.

 

[Zenith]

A manual Miata is still "manlier" than an automatic anything, just on principle of how much more effort and patience it takes.

Manlier? You're moving a stick and pedal, not fighting lions...

 

[Joey D]

I rarely post on this board. How does anybody remember anything I've said? lol

A manual Miata is still "manlier" than an automatic anything, just on principle of how much more effort and patience it takes.

Judging by what others have said in this thread, working a manual trans takes no additional effort as it is more or less second nature. I can agree with them on that because it's the same way with anything overly repetitive.

And the only reason anyone remembers is because successful troll is successful.

 

[Danoff]

I think we all agree that manuals have their place, and I don't think anybody has said they'd be happy to see them go.

I have. I think manuals are antiquated technology for sports cars. If you're talking about semi-trucks, that's a different story. I'm happy to see them die in fast cars.

I only drive manual. Girls drive auto. Call me sexist if you want, but I look down upon men with automatic sports cars. It might have something to do with my awesome beard, which is also a manly trait.

Yea, those Veyron owners are a bunch of sissy boys. I look down on them and their girl car too.

I rarely post on this board. How does anybody remember anything I've said? lol

A manual Miata is still "manlier" than an automatic anything, just on principle of how much more effort and patience it takes.

...because it takes a real man to work that stick with the knob at the top. Only a real man can grab that thing in his palm and work it back and forth. If you're a man you can't get along driving unless have a bishop-shaped object in your palm that you can squeeze. When you start to hear the roar and moan (of the engine), there's nothing like the feeling of grabbing that rod and shoving it into your slot to send you into ecstasy am I right?

That's manly.

 

[homeforsummer]

I rarely post on this board. How does anybody remember anything I've said? lol

Because you always make such a wonderful impression every time you mash forehead to keyboard and then click on post.

 

[Zenith]

...because it takes a real man to work that stick with the knob at the top. Only a real man can grab that thing in his palm and work it back and forth. If you're a man you can't get along driving unless have a bishop-shaped object in your palm that you can squeeze. When you start to hear the roar and moan (of the engine), there's nothing like the feeling of grabbing that rod and shoving it into your slot to send you into ecstasy am I right?

That's manly.

Post of the year 2012!!!

Funniest thing I've read in a while.