Shift 2 v1.02 Patch
- Thread starter BryantFC
- 899 comments
- 133,566 views
- 69
- Italy
- Gabba73
- Gabba73
I think you are joking
because the Race series get one of the most gratifying and smart Ai in the market (is just a little step behind the Crammond Ai).I can't notice a bug comparable to every bug console racing games have (including GT and Shift ) and to end is impossible try to win a race cutting the corners unless you use weak ai and disabled damage.
This is Race !!!!! ..... what are you speaking about???????????????
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- 169
- magicaldog
What !!! - RACE07 Terrible AI / Clearly you are wrong here because SIMBIN has among the best AI out there IMO !
Cutting corners WITHOUT penalty ! = There is regulations in all racing and cutting corners is definately a NONO ! 2 wheels is ok but certainly not the whole car !
Are you sure you've got the latest version 1.2.1.5
http://www.virtualr.net/race07-patch-1-2-1-5-released
Hard to know where to start with that:
* with the exception of some per-track work there's really not much significant difference between STCC2's and F1 99/02 in terms of the AI data and capabilities. Some 12 years old at heart.
* Shift 1/2 are pretty much the only significant update this has received in all that time, adding a giant amount of FSM parameters to the base *motor AI system.
* That said the same underlying *motor system is still present and forms the backbone of Shift's AI, with the same talent/plr/trk/aiw parameters still present in game data and active. Just with about ~150 new ones sitting on top.
* Seeing Race's AI described as bug free is pretty amusing all on its own
. Hard to know quite where to start. You've never seen the conga line form up behind a slow car (or that 'fixing' this involves pushing a single aggression slider up with all sorts of flow on effects)? Never watched them try to handle car damage or avoid a mid track obstacle? Try to react to changing track conditions or wear? I mean. It's not like this hasn't come up on forums over the last few years in simbin's games - to give just one single example, "VonDutch's Better AI tutorial" is the single most viewed sticky in the NoGrip GTR2 forum.
* with the exception of some per-track work there's really not much significant difference between STCC2's and F1 99/02 in terms of the AI data and capabilities. Some 12 years old at heart.
* Shift 1/2 are pretty much the only significant update this has received in all that time, adding a giant amount of FSM parameters to the base *motor AI system.
* That said the same underlying *motor system is still present and forms the backbone of Shift's AI, with the same talent/plr/trk/aiw parameters still present in game data and active. Just with about ~150 new ones sitting on top.
* Seeing Race's AI described as bug free is pretty amusing all on its own
. Hard to know quite where to start. You've never seen the conga line form up behind a slow car (or that 'fixing' this involves pushing a single aggression slider up with all sorts of flow on effects)? Never watched them try to handle car damage or avoid a mid track obstacle? Try to react to changing track conditions or wear? I mean. It's not like this hasn't come up on forums over the last few years in simbin's games - to give just one single example, "VonDutch's Better AI tutorial" is the single most viewed sticky in the NoGrip GTR2 forum.- 146
- Spain
- TechnobearRacing
- TheTechnobear
Yeah, avoid anything you don't like... There's plent of xp and credits to be had... On the flip side repeat events you enjoy.
( Later you will find you need a certain number of podiums from events to unlock, but the game largely allows you to do what you enjoy)
Difficulty, play at a level where your getting podiums, and not frustrated. the more you play, the more you get the feel. just remember to step it up if it's to easy, as the next level is never much harder.
I usually play on hard, and flip down to medium if getting frustrated or it's a long race that I need to win, and don't fancy multiple attempts.
Oh also make sure your playing with elite, and assists of, even if at lower difficulty , it's more fun -IMHO
Yep, absolutely. But not really relevant when we're talking about the way the engine models certain functions.
Pretty much...dozens and dozens of hours playing both series...isn't that enough for me to decide which one feels right for me?
I never claimed one to be more realist over the other...it seems to be the Shift "crowd"\fanboys that need to claim that superior physics...I just enjoy both games...to each one his own!
No problem with any of that. I think it's more that - as tribolik said - and as SMS mentioned in the DF interview - it's kind of frustrating to see the discussion revolve around franchise cachet rather than anything anyone has actually, you know, tested and recorded output from.
Well, for example, in the DF interview, everything Doug mentions links to a named data/engine elements, which you can see for yourself, alter, and see that they do actually work in the way he says they do (though with the exception of data sources and the brush tyre model this is pretty much a feature writeup for pmotor2
). Which all of SimBin's games use. I don't mean to put words in your mouth, but some of the "Shift 2 sucks, only GTR2/rFactor/Race are real sims!" I see on the forum are a bit weird in context of this. It's like watching a group of people running around trying to convince everyone that Windows 98 is Teh Awesome but Windows 7 sucks. Anyone is free to like whatever they like, but once you actually start looking under the hood... you are going to be looking around for a while to find anything different that is not also, you know, kind of obviously better.Why does my perception of my game played in mine living room bother others?!
It doesn't bother me
- just wanted to clear up the scope of shift 1 mods/s2u modding at the moment.Nope, no relation.
- 69
- Italy
- Gabba73
- Gabba73
Hard to know where to start with that:
* with the exception of some per-track work there's really not much significant difference between STCC2's and F1 99/02 in terms of the AI data and capabilities. Some 12 years old at heart.
* Shift 1/2 are pretty much the only significant update this has received in all that time, adding a giant amount of FSM parameters to the base *motor AI system.
* That said the same underlying *motor system is still present and forms the backbone of Shift's AI, with the same talent/plr/trk/aiw parameters still present in game data and active. Just with about ~150 new ones sitting on top.
* Seeing Race's AI described as bug free is pretty amusing all on its own
The Ia engine (as all the engine) is the same for simbin and ISI produciotn.... everybody know this.
Everybody know that Simbins was born as modder of ISI F1 titles....... but every body also know the weak Ia of ISI produciton and how much time SImbin has spent in his titles to give ia a boost.
Everybody could note how the simbin IA is much better than the ISI titles due the routine refining and tweaking.
The Shift IA is good but due his aggressivity and collision detect bug is not so enjoyable and realistic.
I would like to know where do you see someone speak of bug free IA
- 146
- Spain
- TechnobearRacing
- TheTechnobear
Already done that,
Actually I think the drift, is a red herring it's only dpr needed. I leave drift at 0.
But still the wheel is not as positive/weighed as it was, and the ps3 version has that feel... As I say feels like xbox 1.01
Don't get me wrong dpr -3 makes it playable, but it does return it to what it was
I suspect it's the dpr that is the problem, I think that drag is supposed to be the 'weight' effect, but it's bugged, and so we are turning it off.
Btw, I thought I remembered, dpr was not used on xbox, but seems I'm was wrong...
http://www.911wheel.de/?q=node/4349
- 146
- Spain
- TechnobearRacing
- TheTechnobear
Btw guys, isnt this a thread about the patch, rather than s2u vs gt5 vs gtr vs ...
( I apologize if my posts were vering off topic)
( I apologize if my posts were vering off topic)
- 1,942
- Emerging from semi-retirement
- GTP_DGiant2000
- I think not
Thought I'd posts my thoughts here for what it's worth. I bought Shift 2 for 2 reasons. Firstly because I really enjoyed the original Shift, mainly because then I was playing GT5p and shift gave me a much better range of cars and tracks and I had a real blast driving supercars round the ring and trying to beat lap records. Secondly because I am a huge fan of FIA GT racing and was always trying to recreate the cars in Shift so to have the series as part of the game was a huge plus.
I can tell you, however, that Shift 2 lasted less than a week in my playstation before going back in the box to remain there. Most of that time was because I had spent £40 on the thing and thought I really should give it a go. For me, the game bordered on unplayable (I use a G25 on elite mode, all assists off). It felt like i spent the whole time fighting the cars, even on the straights, and the input lag was horrible. Anything above a D class car was, for me, undriveable.
I put the game to one side in the hope that one day they might patch it and make it better, I was very disappointed. I read the reviews of patch 1.01 and didn't bother playing as it seemed that while it solved some problems, it created more. On reading the thoughts on 1.02 I thought I'd give it a go and wow, I am not disappointed. It feels like a completely different game (so much so that I deleted my saved game and started again from scratch), the cars are driveable in stock form, the FFB is vastly improved (eg it doesn't suddenly disappear mid corner) and there is little if any input lag (it is certainly not noticeable). This game has changed from being a frustrating experience to a great fun racing game which is what I hoped it would be when I bought it. For me it's a big 👍 for the developers. The biggest problem now is that I can't stop playing the game
I can tell you, however, that Shift 2 lasted less than a week in my playstation before going back in the box to remain there. Most of that time was because I had spent £40 on the thing and thought I really should give it a go. For me, the game bordered on unplayable (I use a G25 on elite mode, all assists off). It felt like i spent the whole time fighting the cars, even on the straights, and the input lag was horrible. Anything above a D class car was, for me, undriveable.
I put the game to one side in the hope that one day they might patch it and make it better, I was very disappointed. I read the reviews of patch 1.01 and didn't bother playing as it seemed that while it solved some problems, it created more. On reading the thoughts on 1.02 I thought I'd give it a go and wow, I am not disappointed. It feels like a completely different game (so much so that I deleted my saved game and started again from scratch), the cars are driveable in stock form, the FFB is vastly improved (eg it doesn't suddenly disappear mid corner) and there is little if any input lag (it is certainly not noticeable). This game has changed from being a frustrating experience to a great fun racing game which is what I hoped it would be when I bought it. For me it's a big 👍 for the developers. The biggest problem now is that I can't stop playing the game
- 3,195
- tribolik
Thought I'd posts my thoughts here for what it's worth. I bought Shift 2 for 2 reasons. Firstly because I really enjoyed the original Shift, mainly because then I was playing GT5p and shift gave me a much better range of cars and tracks and I had a real blast driving supercars round the ring and trying to beat lap records. Secondly because I am a huge fan of FIA GT racing and was always trying to recreate the cars in Shift so to have the series as part of the game was a huge plus.
I can tell you, however, that Shift 2 lasted less than a week in my playstation before going back in the box to remain there. Most of that time was because I had spent £40 on the thing and thought I really should give it a go. For me, the game bordered on unplayable (I use a G25 on elite mode, all assists off). It felt like i spent the whole time fighting the cars, even on the straights, and the input lag was horrible. Anything above a D class car was, for me, undriveable.
I put the game to one side in the hope that one day they might patch it and make it better, I was very disappointed. I read the reviews of patch 1.01 and didn't bother playing as it seemed that while it solved some problems, it created more. On reading the thoughts on 1.02 I thought I'd give it a go and wow, I am not disappointed. It feels like a completely different game (so much so that I deleted my saved game and started again from scratch), the cars are driveable in stock form, the FFB is vastly improved (eg it doesn't suddenly disappear mid corner) and there is little if any input lag (it is certainly not noticeable). This game has changed from being a frustrating experience to a great fun racing game which is what I hoped it would be when I bought it. For me it's a big 👍 for the developers. The biggest problem now is that I can't stop playing the game
Damn... another victim of the Placebo effect....
Dont worry, Im a victim of the same thing too... Patch 1.02 is great, now if they could fix the freezing issues on the PS3 the game will be epic.
Firehuntah
Premium
- 874
- Netherlands
- Firehuntah
I really don't get how people can say this game gets closer to being a sim than GT5. Ever since I started this game I've pretty much been going full throttle out of corners, even in 600hp+ rwd cars, without any oversteer or the wheels spinning. And when it does happen, when I hit a curb or something, you don't even really feel it through the wheel's FFB. And then there's still some input lag, even after patch 1.02. You can also drive through grass at full speeds without any problem whatsoever and I was even doing donuts in a sand trap after I crashed. Can you even still call it a sand trap in Shift 2? 
Looking only at physics GT5 is definately a lot better, you can actually feel what the car is doing there and the understeer/oversteer is much more real. And driving through grass or getting stuck in a sand trap feels more real as well.
Only things that are better than GT5 is the sense of speed, car customization, sounds and damage. While it's nice to have some damage it really isn't that great though, flipped my cars a few times while going sideways at fast speeds and they end up looking exactly the same every time. It also doesn't make sense sometimes when a certain part falls off, never even hit that part.
You could also say better AI but I'm still not sure about this one. They're definately more challenging than GT5's AI but in GT5 they actually try to avoid hitting you while still going through corners at decent speed. Here in Shift 2 however they just aggressively hit you while trying to pass, never give up their line even when you're ahead causing another crash, go very slow whenever there's a crashed car in front of them which often makes me crash into them since I don't really expect it and probably some more situations which I can't think of right now. Also they seem to have extra downforce or something cause they very often pass me in certain corners at very high speeds while I'm already going full speed through that corner. Yesterday one of them managed to pass me taking a very outside line through the grass (since I was moving to the outside line) at a pretty high speed without even sliding or anything. I really don't know how he managed to pass me like that. Certainly wouldn't be possible in real life.
Don't get me wrong though, I still really like this game. I just think GT5 does a way better job at being a simulator. Sure it has some flaws as well but at least it actually feels like you're driving a car and you will know when you're driving a 600hp+ rwd car.
Looking only at physics GT5 is definately a lot better, you can actually feel what the car is doing there and the understeer/oversteer is much more real. And driving through grass or getting stuck in a sand trap feels more real as well.
Only things that are better than GT5 is the sense of speed, car customization, sounds and damage. While it's nice to have some damage it really isn't that great though, flipped my cars a few times while going sideways at fast speeds and they end up looking exactly the same every time. It also doesn't make sense sometimes when a certain part falls off, never even hit that part.
You could also say better AI but I'm still not sure about this one. They're definately more challenging than GT5's AI but in GT5 they actually try to avoid hitting you while still going through corners at decent speed. Here in Shift 2 however they just aggressively hit you while trying to pass, never give up their line even when you're ahead causing another crash, go very slow whenever there's a crashed car in front of them which often makes me crash into them since I don't really expect it and probably some more situations which I can't think of right now. Also they seem to have extra downforce or something cause they very often pass me in certain corners at very high speeds while I'm already going full speed through that corner. Yesterday one of them managed to pass me taking a very outside line through the grass (since I was moving to the outside line) at a pretty high speed without even sliding or anything. I really don't know how he managed to pass me like that. Certainly wouldn't be possible in real life.
Don't get me wrong though, I still really like this game. I just think GT5 does a way better job at being a simulator. Sure it has some flaws as well but at least it actually feels like you're driving a car and you will know when you're driving a 600hp+ rwd car.
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Firehuntah
Premium
- 874
- Netherlands
- Firehuntah
- 3,195
- tribolik
Yeah it's more fun racing AI in Shift 2 than in GT5 cause of the challenge but it does get frustrating sometimes when you have to restart a race like 10 times to get through the first corner.
Thats because you always want to get ahead right away... if you just follow the groove and try to pass them later that wont happen... or will happen a lot less...
My driving style is always trying to overtake at the start, or AI's poor drag racing skill pushes you to. If you're playing with hard setting, Elite handling, its not easy to win a 2-3 laps short tracks without overtaking at the start.
And you know what will happen if you race at some track like Miami, damn, it always pisses me off, stupid, too aggressive AI will force you to restart at least 10 times to win that short track.
- 2,393
- FLX81
I also experience these things. Yesterday at the manufacturer duels BMW M3 vs Audi RS4 I was on the perfect racing line in curve 3 (not the green triangle thingie, the real racing line), nailing the corner when suddenly the M3 bolted into the inside, braked almost instantly and took off like a damn rocket. All that while he had to have 2 wheels on the curbs. All that was missing was the "beep beep" roadrunner sound and a tongue sticking out the window.
This game really makes me kinda sad. It has so infinite potential but it keeps shooting itself in the knee with stupid things beyond any logic understanding (input lag, FF problems, freezes, superglue collisions, AI superhuman grip, livery anarchy...). Its just so frustrating because I cant shake the feeling that with maybe 2 months more development they could have solved these issues and we would have a truely great game, not a game with great potential fighting to keep said potential hidden.
Firehuntah
Premium
- 874
- Netherlands
- Firehuntah
Well the challenges pretty much force you to get to 1st place fast (to get a clean lap done, lead for one lap, fast lap time) and like zhunter said already, with the elite and hard mode settings you just have to pass them fast or 2-3 laps won't be enough to win. I don't have to lead after the first corner though, problem is just that when I see a gap I go drive next to them and they just move into me. Usually when I take the outside line this happens, sometimes they stick to the inside line but often they hit me since they want to go to the outside making me end up in the grass or sand trap. Or when another AI car spins out the one right behind him goes full on the brakes making me crash into him, while he could have just moved off his line while still maintaining some speed.
When everything goes well though, it's a great race.
- 2,114
- Porto-Portugal
- arvore
- FCP CAMPEÕES
Before anything I would like to apologise to You boxox,probably my last post in this thread was more "aggressive" than needed.I was getting really annoyed with the constant off topic comparisons between games.👍
I thought that You said at some point,probably about a Shift 1 mod, I'm not sure, that in the PC mods of the game one could change grip levels, tyre temperature,etc...and other data that transfers to handling.
So I really think it makes no sense to support the opinion one has of Shift in consoles with opinions others have on the same franchise but in a completely different gaming platform, changed with mods that improve the devs work and alters the feeling one gets while playing it.
That was my point!
No matter how much testing and data records one is able to make-I guess that's only possible in PC' s right?...or can You "de-code" S2U and GT5 data and compare it...or register for instance the values of tyre wear in both games and make an objective comparison of which one reproduces better real tyre wear physics?- that won't alter the subjective perception that every gamer has.
I get it comparisons are futile...but I didn't made them...and it was my post that got quoted...
I wouldn't know because I never looked "under the hood" and thought no one could...at least on the PS3.
My bad than...at some point I got that impression...I wonder why?!
EDIT:
I thought that You said at some point,probably about a Shift 1 mod, I'm not sure, that in the PC mods of the game one could change grip levels, tyre temperature,etc...and other data that transfers to handling.
So I really think it makes no sense to support the opinion one has of Shift in consoles with opinions others have on the same franchise but in a completely different gaming platform, changed with mods that improve the devs work and alters the feeling one gets while playing it.
That was my point!
No matter how much testing and data records one is able to make-I guess that's only possible in PC' s right?...or can You "de-code" S2U and GT5 data and compare it...or register for instance the values of tyre wear in both games and make an objective comparison of which one reproduces better real tyre wear physics?- that won't alter the subjective perception that every gamer has.
I get it comparisons are futile...but I didn't made them...and it was my post that got quoted...
I wouldn't know because I never looked "under the hood" and thought no one could...at least on the PS3.
My bad than...at some point I got that impression...I wonder why?!
EDIT:
Undoubtedly...it's the plastic wheel and pedals You use while sitting on Your couch that metamorphosis it into a completely realistic racing sim, sure!
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- 1,787
- RomKnight
My car also has some kind of plastic and rubber stuff 💡
This patch is amazing. Tried the LFA, Viper and GT-R events again and I've beaten all my times
They are not as easy to do now because you need to pace yourself on that first turn and work your way from 4th place (3rd if you somehow manage do get it in the 1st corner..)
Could've take 4s off the Viper event but time ended just as I was finishing the lap. I'm not sure I can do that event again. It was perfect
This patch is amazing. Tried the LFA, Viper and GT-R events again and I've beaten all my times
They are not as easy to do now because you need to pace yourself on that first turn and work your way from 4th place (3rd if you somehow manage do get it in the 1st corner..)Could've take 4s off the Viper event but time ended just as I was finishing the lap. I'm not sure I can do that event again. It was perfect
- 3,195
- tribolik
Undoubtedly...it's the plastic wheel and pedals You use while sitting on Your couch that metamorphosis it into a completely realistic racing sim, sure!
No... but sure does hell of alot better job simulating (driving/racing) than a Pad and thats a fact... and also feeling the games physics...
You didnt make a comparison but you keep screaming this game is Arcade (with caps on it) so if you dont compare it how do you know?
I try to show my point of view (without shouting) if I think someone is misleading others from what I feel when playing and from what I read in the apropriate forums (racing sim forums)
and to me arcade is a X2010 or a sideways jump on cape ring doing 250 kmh and just keep on going like nothing happened or doing the ring halfway through the grass and halfway through the kerbs just to be able to shave minutes of your lap and pull it off with no major incidents... that IMO is arcade
edit: and what about sound? isnt it also a part of the simulation? I wonder what GT5 is trying to simulate there... maybe a Hoover...
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- 1,426
- Burammm
Ofcourse a wheel will always give a more realistic experience, but even when you're controlling your car with a pad it still has to obey the same laws of physics - dictating how the car will respond when you hammer the gas or the brakes, when you yank the wheel or when you go off track with two wheels.
There is a large difference between an arcade racer and a sim. Burnout, NFS Hot Pursuit, Ridge Racer, Outrun; these are all arcade racers. Shift 2 is a really sophisticated simulation of actual physics with parameters taken from actual cars, which makes it by definition a sim.
Even while playing with a controller, I can easily tell that Shift 2 is a better sim than GT5. In GT5, every car is as easy to drive a VW Golf. Want to get a LeMans racer as a first car? No problem, you can set decent lap times right away. In Shift 2, you really have to work and get to grips with the fast monsters, like you would expect, and there's a clearly noticeable difference between forgiving FWD D-class cars, tricky RWD C-class cars and downright scary A-class hypercars. In GT5, there hardly is - one just goes faster than the other.
There is a large difference between an arcade racer and a sim. Burnout, NFS Hot Pursuit, Ridge Racer, Outrun; these are all arcade racers. Shift 2 is a really sophisticated simulation of actual physics with parameters taken from actual cars, which makes it by definition a sim.
Even while playing with a controller, I can easily tell that Shift 2 is a better sim than GT5. In GT5, every car is as easy to drive a VW Golf. Want to get a LeMans racer as a first car? No problem, you can set decent lap times right away. In Shift 2, you really have to work and get to grips with the fast monsters, like you would expect, and there's a clearly noticeable difference between forgiving FWD D-class cars, tricky RWD C-class cars and downright scary A-class hypercars. In GT5, there hardly is - one just goes faster than the other.
