"Standard Car" does not correspond to the interior view.Update read 1st page

[Spagetti69]

Actually, taken literally, nobody knows nothing could mean everybody knows everything.

Just goes to show that without the Japanese translation problem, even your native Tongue can have different meanings.

 

[McLaren]

Actually, taken literally, nobody knows nothing could mean everybody knows everything.

Just goes to show that without the Japanese translation problem, even your native Tongue can have different meanings.

It's 3AM. I think I'll just take your word for it, then.

 

[Spagetti69]

Get to bed mate, it's not worth the hassle.
I'm getting paid whilst browsing here, just passing time.

 

[analog]

I just have to wonder about this whole issue from the point of view of the average game buyer. Not those following every nuance on this forum, but those who will wander thru the gameshop in November and go 'Oh cool, the new Gran Turimso game is out, I'll buy that ! ". And lets face it, we on this forum will be only an extremely small percentage of the total sales.

So that average gamer, even if they don't have Prologue, probably do know that Prologue has a cockpit view, and know that Forza 3, Shift etc all have cockpit views for every car to the point the that, yes it is the standard for this generation. Then they buy GT5 and only 20% of cars have cockpit view, it'll be WTF ? and rightly so. If there is a servere limitation like that then you have to let your potential purchasers know.

It would be like a sales rep letting a customer leave a store with a brand new 3D TV and the expectation that they're going to go home plug it in and watch the evening news tonight in 3D. The rep has to be very clear the customer understands thats not whats going to happen.

Which brings me to my point. A little asterixed comment on the offical game site that most purchasers won't even visit is not going to cut it. Of course its a long time to launch, and the game may well launch with a big sticker across the cover "Cockpit view only available on select cars". But if you have to go to that extreme, then from a business point of view, wouldn't it be much better to launch a game where all cars ARE of this generational standard, cutting edge of that standard in fact, even if there are only 200 of them, rather than include an additional 800 that, featurewise, don't cut the mustard ?

Maclaren and others make a very strong case that, to apply Occam's razor, the simplest explanation of what a sentence means is probably the correct one. And I conceed that my opposing view is based more on gut feel than on logic, but try as I might, and I have been trying since E3, I still can't get my head around the idea that GT5 will launch with 4/5 ths of the cars below this generations expectations. (I'm purely talking about a lack of a cockpit view here. I have no problem with the whole texture vs individual body panel issue. I'm sure exteriorwise those 800 cars will look fine)

And after all, this debate could so easily be ended. Its not hard to write an unambiguous sentence, so why the contextually ambiguous one we got ? Is it an exercise in lowering expectations, especially as Sony, PD etc know how the hype is starting to build for GT5 ? If it turns out that standard cars do have a cockpit view after all everybody is 'Hooray !!', and far fewer people are complaining about textures vs individual body panels.

Anyhow everything is still speculation, but at this stage my gut is still with the cockpiters.

My thoughts exactly.👍

In prologue, if you drive the Lancia, the interior is very basic. All thats visible are the seats (they look generic) and the dashboard. Maybe that's like a standard car.

The interior of the Lancia probably looks quite basic because the real one is quite basic, that's just the boxy seventies design language of the dashboard.
This is definitely not generic, just find some real pictures of that car's interior and you'll know it's been replicated faithfully.

 

[eSZee]

Right...Sony mistranslated something from Japanese. WOO! I'd like to see your proof of that. And don't drop it into google's translator either.

They must've since I can't find the word CAMERA in the japanese text yet somehow in the english translation it's there. Even if they added it for effect, why not translate it properly instead of translating+interpreting?

 

[SuperShouden]

They must've since I can't find the word CAMERA in the japanese text yet somehow in the english translation it's there. Even if they added it for effect, why not translate it properly instead of translating+interpreting?

maybe...it was...umm...translated by people who understand the American language and Japanese language. Just give up. It's translated correctly.

 

[Antti-san]

In prologue, if you drive the Lancia, the interior is very basic. All thats visible are the seats (they look generic) and the dashboard. Maybe that's like a standard car

The Lancia is a premium car, just like every other car in Prologue.

Here is your "generic" interior...

 

[eSZee]

maybe...it was...umm...translated by Japanese Americans. You know, people who understand the American language and Japanese language. Just give up. It's translated correctly.

What? How does that make any sense to anyone but you?
You're really starting to push it bud.

 

[Dapper]

maybe...it was...umm...translated by Japanese Americans. You know, people who understand the American language and Japanese language. Just give up. It's translated correctly.

You might want to retract that statement, or at least rephrase it.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Actually, taken literally, nobody knows nothing could mean everybody knows everything.

That's odd, I've always been taught the literal meaning of that saying is everybody knows something...

It's odd that people are now hinging on the idea that PD themselves have posted something wrong on their website, blaming mistranslation. I'm sure they don't pop everything into an online translator; they have people who understand both languages. I feel like that should be clear enough... but apparently it's not. Something tells me even if Gamescom has Standards available, and people play it to find no interior view, they'll start with the "maybe it's just that car!" or "it'll be in the final game!"...

 

[SuperShouden]

You might want to retract that statement, or at least rephrase it.

Right...Maybe it was translated by people who understand both Japanese and English enough to add in words in English to get it what the Japanese company wanted to say.

 

[eSZee]

Right...Maybe it was translated by people who understand both Japanese and English enough to add in words in English to get it what the Japanese company wanted to say.

Which is what I said in my post, which you obviously decided to ignore, again.
If the japanese site had no intentions of adding CAMERA to the statement and felt comfortable about it, why did the US site? What is written in japanese is clearer than the botched US translation, IMO.

 

[SuperShouden]

Which is what I said in my post, which you obviously decided to ignore, again.
If the japanese site had no intentions of adding CAMERA to the statement and felt comfortable about it, why did the US site? What is written in japanese is clearer than the botched US translation, IMO.

because the Japanese site is in Japanese and the English site is in English. Two different languages, two different cultures. There are a lot of occasions that a translation is changed or worded differently so that it makes sense to different cultures.

 

[eSZee]

because the Japanese site is in Japanese and the English site is in English. Two different languages, two different cultures. There are a lot of occasions that a translation is changed or worded differently so that it makes sense to different cultures.

I don't disagree.
In this case however, it makes no difference.

 

[SuperShouden]

Not neccessarily. Maybe the Japanese translation made sense to Japanese speaking people and the English translation was supposed to make sense to English speaking people

 

[eSZee]

Not neccessarily. Maybe the Japanese translation made sense to Japanese speaking people and the English translation was supposed to make sense to English speaking people

Uh, what about the japanese translation makes no sense to people, and you?
And we all know just how perfectly clear and direct the US site translation is.

 

[RufusGonePunk]

just saw this vid in another thread:



It shows chosable camera views in replays. Maybe this is what the sit is referring to. It would actually make sense if standard cars didn't have those 'cause they're interiors probably aren't that detailed or that extensively modeled.

This.

Everything I've seen points towards this. The whole multiple interior views and camera angles that has been posted on both US and Japanese sites.
I know some people will say there's other evidence contradicting this, but it is nowhere near as strong as this video, coupled with what's been written on the official GT websites, in two languages.

 

[nawfal]

That could be true, but then what if we looked left/right or back, what would happen?


And on the Lancia note, I know it is premium but standard could be that. If you drive it in London, looking left/right shows everything kinda dark (seats/back excluded) and the Lancia logo isn't that visible unless you brake from a high speed. If they had it similar to this, where its dark and the only clearly visible things are the dials/steering wheel, I don't think that would take a while to do that. GTPSP has the blacked out dash, which has the same interior as its real life counterpart but its all blacked out. They could just do something similar and do a interior that has the dials/steering wheel and rearview mirror/side mirrors. Maybe headtracking would be disabled for these cars and looking back just showed the road behind you, like driving a car in hood view and looking back. If you drive the GT by Citroen you can see what I mean.

It's just an idea. I don't really mind that much with no interior as long as they add more premiums and the physics between premium and standard are the same.

 

[eSZee]

This.

Everything I've seen points towards this. The whole multiple interior views and camera angles that has been posted on both US and Japanese sites.
I know some people will say there's other evidence contradicting this, but it is nowhere near as strong as this video, coupled with what's been written on the official GT websites, in two languages.

I beg to differ and I'll leave it a that. This road has been taken many times before and I don't like going in circles.

 

[Antti-san]

And on the Lancia note, I know it is premium but standard could be that. If you drive it in London, looking left/right shows everything kinda dark (seats/back excluded) and the Lancia logo isn't that visible unless you brake from a high speed. If they had it similar to this, where its dark and the only clearly visible things are the dials/steering wheel, I don't think that would take a while to do that. GTPSP has the blacked out dash, which has the same interior as its real life counterpart but its all blacked out. They could just do something similar and do a interior that has the dials/steering wheel and rearview mirror/side mirrors. Maybe headtracking would be disabled for these cars and looking back just showed the road behind you, like driving a car in hood view and looking back. If you drive the GT by Citroen you can see what I mean.

At least on my TV I can see that the Lancia's interior is completely modeled, and not just some black outline like in the PSP game.

 

[Goshin2568]

Ok guys. This argument is pretty ridiculous. I, personally, belive the standard cars will have interior view. Just think.

Why was this game delayed so long? Now, there could be many specific answer to that question, but basically, it's because Kazunori Yamauchi is a perfectionist.

That is why we will have an interior viewpoint in the standard cars. It's that simple.

 

[McLaren]

Ok guys. This argument is pretty ridiculous. I, personally, belive the standard cars will have interior view. Just think.

Why was this game delayed so long? Now, there could be many specific answer to that question, but basically, it's because Kazunori Yamauchi is a perfectionist.

That is why we will have an interior viewpoint in the standard cars. It's that simple.

If that was the answer, there wouldn't be a Standard car to begin with. They'd all be Premium models with equal damage.

Not a very strong argument, mate. Even the perfectionist that Kaz. is, will not be able to get everything he wants.

 

[Topsu]

.....................Why was this game delayed so long? Now, there could be many specific answer to that question, but basically, it's because Kazunori Yamauchi is a perfectionist.........................

Oh my GOD, how these people will be disappointed. 👎

 

[gtracedriver]

Ok guys. This argument is pretty ridiculous. I, personally, belive the standard cars will have interior view. Just think.

Why was this game delayed so long? Now, there could be many specific answer to that question, but basically, it's because Kazunori Yamauchi is a perfectionist.

That is why we will have an interior viewpoint in the standard cars. It's that simple.

To be honest I am also expecting some sort of cockpit view. I think it is good to be quiet if it is not going to be any good. I mean Forza had it but that was really bad lol. So they may have something but the interior will be bland unlike premium which are very realistic

 

[Goshin2568]

If that was the answer, there wouldn't be a Standard car to begin with. They'd all be Premium models with equal damage.

Not a very strong argument, mate. Even the perfectionist that Kaz. is, will not be able to get everything he wants.

Yes, but no one really cares if all the cars have extensive damage, but I think it's safe to say at least 90% of people who play GT5 prefer interior view, and would be annoyed if it were gone.

Also, you have to think of time constraints. I imagine it would take a heck of alot more time to model how a ripped off door or chassis looks, then it is to model an interior. It wasn't possible to make all cars premium. Not if they wanted the game released in the next 5 years, but as IMZIZ pointed out in this quote, modeling the interiors would be very doable.

A bit of math here, but assuming they have done 200 premium cars (approximate), and assuming that this has been in development constantly since the release of Gran Turismo 4, then we have about 66 months so far, which amounts to 3 cars per month. To make that work, they would need 18 people working on modeling to equate to 6 months of man-hours per car. If we believe that there are 150 employees at PD, then this is means their staff numbers 12% for modeling jobs. If we add just one more person to the equation, however, they could model another 66 GT4 cars in all of their glory. This may leave enough wiggle room, if one doesn't need to model the exterior (since it was done for GT4) for that theoretical 19th modeler to make dashboard views for some GT4 cars. Since a dashboard view may contain around the same level of detail as the entire exterior of the car (since standard cars are not modeled to the same level as premium), let's just say that one person could have upgraded 66 GT4 cars to include that view during the same amount of time. Now, if we are to believe this is possible, let's imagine that they wanted to upgrade all GT4 cars using a similar timetable. To upgrade another 730 cars would take about an additional 11 people. Even at those numbers, the modelers in the company would still be less than 20% (19.3% if we're calculating) of the entire company. I would say that's not unreasonable. Keep in mind that even GT PSP used Premium models in some cases (toned down/ dumbed down for PSP) such as the Corvette ZR1. By this, I mean to say that the development of the GT PSP title probably does not figure positively or negatively on the schedule of the modeling team.

 

[McLaren]

Yes, but no one really cares if all the cars have extensive damage

I think it's safe bet that around 50% do. That's why PD modeled damage in the first place, because we asked for it.

but I think it's safe to say at least 90% of people who play GT5 prefer interior view, and would be annoyed if it were gone.

Maybe on this forum, but I don't think quite the majority of players would always drive in it. I do believe most will be annoyed when it's gone, though.

Also, you have to think of time constraints. I imagine it would take a heck of alot more time to model how a ripped off door or chassis looks, then it is to model an interior. It wasn't possible to make all cars premium. Not if they wanted the game released in the next 5 years, but as IMZIZ pointed out in this quote, modeling the interiors would be very doable.

They would be, but judging by what we're being shown, I doubt that was the case.

What he's said is a strong argument, but it's speaking in "what if" terms dating back from GT4 to now. And since we're now in the present, we now have nearly enough information given & shown to us to come to the conclusion that what he theorized doesn't look to be the same as what PD have been doing in 5 years of work.

 

[Goshin2568]

I can't disagree. The facts point in that direction. But, pointing in the other direction is hope, logic, and my gut. Hopefully we will just find out soon.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I can't disagree. The facts point in that direction. But, pointing in the other direction is hope, logic, and my gut. Hopefully we will just find out soon.

Facts point in one direction, logic points in the other?! If that were the case, you wouldn't need hope.

Oh dear. I anxiously await the release of GT5, although every day it's becoming less about playing it, and more about what I can only imagine this place will look like, filled with members who believe Standards are going to be Prologue-quality, or that Standards will have a cockpit view that, even if they do appear, amount to anything more than the PSP's black-frame.

 

[ferrari4619]

If that was the answer, there wouldn't be a Standard car to begin with. They'd all be Premium models with equal damage.

Not a very strong argument, mate. Even the perfectionist that Kaz. is, will not be able to get everything he wants.

I dont know if you know but PD said that they have used up all most all the memory on the blu ray disc so unless sony come up with a new disc in like a few months or you want it on like 5 discs not every car will be a premium i do not mind the 2 different classes and kaz cannot make everything perfect without the right tools.

 

[Goshin2568]

Well, that was phrased wrong. Basically, based on what Sony and PD have factually given us, there will be no standard interior views. But, I hope there will be, my gut tells me there will be, and logically, I can't see PD failing to include that.