Standard cars in GT6?

[Griffith500]

Yay, ignoranti.

 

[Tornado]

Yay, ignoranti.

But seriously, no. There aren't two different physics engines at play. The No Stripe GT in particular is likely faster than the Premium because the car was quite glitchy in GT4, and it is likely similarly glitched in GT5.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I also had a few extras in, oops!

The relationship between Evo I-III, Evo IV-Evo VI, and Evo VII-IX, are that they are facelifts, essentially (cosmetically wise). Likewise with the GC and GD Subaru Imprezas. The same applies for a few other cars as well, like the 147 in your example, so I think your idea makes a lot of sense. 👍

Thanks! I'm trying to look at GT5's car list from a modeller's point of view, and certainly, having all that common ground for those models would save them a bunch of time. I'm sure there'd be some changes needed in the interiors as well, but either way, it'd be easier than rebuilding an entire, say, Evo V from scratch.

Thanks!

Hopefully, PD don't lazy out again and just port them over. That'd be terrible!

If GT6 is on PS3, I wouldn't be surprised if we see Standards again. Unfortunately.

Unique cars, as in, say, a first generation Ford Focus? Where there aren't any prior models to use as a basis?

Yep. Or the Supra RZ. Those sorts of cars, where there's no choice but to build a Premium from scratch 👍

I really don't understand what you guys are doing here. The assumption seems to be that cars are modelled then various additional features are bolted on or taken off making the models interchangeable, but that's simply not how they are modelled. You're kinda confusing real life with 3D modelling.

That is exactly what I am getting at, and it definitely is possible, as PD would have access to the original models.

Sure there are many instances where PD have done that deliberately, but within premiums, or within standards. There isn't that compatibility between premiums and standards, the latter of which were modelled for the PS2 and contain a far lower polygon count.

Yes. We know.

Premiums need to be pretty much scratch-built, and surely their time is better spent modelling different models entirely, than focusing on having two DB9s, two Clios...etc?

That's the thing, they don't need to be scratch-built for 1241's list up there. That '03 DB9? Take the currently existing Premium DB9, give it the paint options of the '03, and you're pretty much done, with a new Premium car.

Do I agree they should spend their time better, perhaps modelling something that isn't already in the Premium stable (or at least, something that doesn't have a very close relative in the Premium stable)? Yes. But I think the point of Penguin's list is to show that a good amount of GT5's Standard lineup could be replaced with Premium versions pretty quickly, as the bases are already there for many of them. I don't like all the myriad R34 Skyline variations either, but if PD did want to keep them all in, it'd take far less time than the quoted 6 man-months per car to recreate them in Premium form. I hope that makes more sense.

Sorry if this doesn't come out nice @1241Penguin, but I'm not really digging that list at all. Cars like the DB9 '03, the M5 '05, the Lutecias and those duplicates expect for the premiums but the standards ones. You're also missing some cars like the TVR Speed 12.

The Speed 12 doesn't have a Premium correspondent. It would require a complete re-model (and might be a bit hard to get a hold of, though there was one for sale a year or so ago).

Why do we need all those Skylines and S2000s and the others that are the same again? The old ones should be scraped away, no need for them, and for the duplicates they need to be scraped away as well so there can be room the news cars, such as more space for the variety of other cars that'll be new in Gran Turismo.

There's no space issue on GT5's disc, there's a lot of room left. I completely agree that the days of endless tiny variations of models (the R34's, the NA MX-5's, etc) are gone, so we don't need all the duplicates, IMO, but Penguin's list is just to point out that if PD wanted to keep them in, it'd be a relatively simple move, and could more than double the current Premium count without requiring nearly as many work hours as the current lineup did.

 

[TokoTurismo]

^ Oh, than my bad. I didn't realize or notice it was just a example. I also agree with the Speed 12, so that's why its wasn't in his list.

 

[tpark103]

I hate the standards but end up using them a lot because they seem to be better handling cars, for example the ford gt no stripe is far superior to the premium ford gt! That really annoys me

Agreed +1

 

[Tenacious D]

While I like the Standard cars about as much as the Premiums, I don't see the point of porting them to GT6, since they race just fine in GT5. I suspect that GT6 will be all Premium, though if there are Standard cars, I'll be chuckling as I race them, while you guys waste time on the boards complaining.

<- Standard Beemer in avy...

 

[MOTORTRENDmitch]

You forgot a few, actually

AC Cars: [1]

Acura: [1]
RSX Type-S '04

Alfa Romeo : [2]
147 2.0 Twin Spark '02
147 GTA '02

HKS : [1]
Genki Hyper Silvia RS2 (D1GP) '04

Honda : [3]
Civic Gathers Drider Race Car '98
Integra Type R (DC5) '03
Integra Type R Touring Car

HPA : [1]
Golf R32 Stage II (SEMA Award 2004)

Subaru : [5]
Impreza Cusco Advan JGTC '03
Impreza WRX STi (Type-II) '02
Impreza WRX STi Prodrive Style (Type-I) '01
Impreza WRX STi Spec-C (Type-II) '04
Impreza WRX STi Version (Type-I) '00

Total Cars: 517

I could've included basically every version of the Lancer Evo too; I through IV shared many parts, V and VI are very similar, and VII through IX all are essentially facelifts as well. I included the Scoobies on the basis of you including the R33 GT-R Road Going Version from Nismo: that would take a far amount of remodelling, at least as much as punching out some new noses and taillights for the existing '05 STI . On that basis, the 147's may be a bit too different from the '06 model, but I can't imagine so. The Integras/RSX is a simple facelift.

I'd say the front-drive Clios/Lutecias probably shouldn't be on the list: they're very different cars from the mid-engine lunatic. But either way, your list is awesome, for pointing out how easy it'd be to convert a vast chunk of GT5's car list to Premium: 517 (and more) just using the current Premium lineup as a base is impressive. Even more when you consider, in reality, we don't need every tiny permutation of a model, but even if PD wants to keep them in, a lot of their work is pretty much done for them.

It'd be interesting to compare your list with the "erase the duplicates/very very similars" list that floats around, to see how many actual unique cars PD would need to work on.

Some one show this to Kaz!!
But in all seriousness, that is a really cool find..

 

[tpark103]

Your joking right?

 

[VQuick]

They don't "convert" standards to premiums. It's impossible. They would have to redo that car model from scratch.

Agreed. I don't know why people think there's some sort of 'conversion' process that just magically gives the car an interior too.lol


The modeling process PD uses is very involved, and a bit old fashioned. They photograph everything from multiple angles, then base their work off of the photos. The quality is great, but nowhere near as fast as laser mapping. If PD moved on to another method, we probably would have heard about it.

What would help PD the most right now would probably be a bit of outsourcing.

As far as standard cars go, I’d rather not see them in GT6, but the reality is that it could mean a lot of cars go missing…including some race cars. Meanwhile, PD is working on more premiums, but some of the standards will likely fall through the cracks if GT6 is indeed being done on a shorter schedule than GT5.

The folks whining about ‘duplicate standards’ likely won’t see the same issue come up with new premiums. Kaz had admitted that it happened in GT4 because he wanted to capture the subtle nuances of the different variants, but realized that they weren't really noticeable in-game. The cars were just carried over into GT5 and became standards. The selection of premiums in GT5 makes it apparent that Kaz isn’t intent on repeating that mistake.

 

[gamerdog6482]

The selection of premiums in GT5 makes it apparent that Kaz isn’t intent on repeating that mistake.

This. Ever notice that there is only one Skyline of each generation? I mean, yes there are four GTR-s but they are all very different in cost and performance.
They have one of each R33, R32, R34, V35, V36, V37, Z33, and Z34.
Which is a lot, but you can't say they are all the same.

 

[TokoTurismo]

This. Ever notice that there is only one Skyline of each generation? I mean, yes there are four GTR-s but they are all very different in cost and performance.
They have one of each R33, R32, R34, V35, V36, V37, Z33, and Z34.
Which is a lot, but you can't say they are all the same.

Excatly. This is how I want to see the others cars as. For example.

Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution III GSR '95
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IV GSR '96
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VI GSR T.M. EDITION Special Color Package '99
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VII GSR '01
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VIII GSR '03
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX GSR '05
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X GSR Premium Package '07

Subaru IMPREZA Coupe 22B-STi Version '98
Subaru IMPREZA Coupe WRX typeR STi Version VI '99
Subaru IMPREZA Sedan WRX STi Version (Type-I) '00
Subaru IMPREZA Sedan WRX STi (Type-II) '02
Subaru IMPREZA Sedan WRX STI spec C Type RA '05
Subaru IMPREZA WRX STI (18inch BBS Wheel Option) '07
Subaru IMPREZA Sedan WRX STI (18inch BBS Wheel Option) '10

Toyota CELICA 2000GT-FOUR (ST165) '86
Toyota CELICA GT-FOUR RC (ST185) '91
Toyota CELICA GT-FOUR (ST205) '98

I notice theres 7 vs 7 from Subaru and Mitsubishi with fast models. Perfect line up. 👍 Remember its just a example so don't get hyper over it...

 

[another_jakhole]

Agreed. I don't know why people think there's some sort of 'conversion' process that just magically gives the car an interior too.lol


The modeling process PD uses is very involved, and a bit old fashioned. They photograph everything from multiple angles, then base their work off of the photos. The quality is great, but nowhere near as fast as laser mapping. If PD moved on to another method, we probably would have heard about it.

What would help PD the most right now would probably be a bit of outsourcing.

As far as standard cars go, I&#8217;d rather not see them in GT6, but the reality is that it could mean a lot of cars go missing&#8230;including some race cars. Meanwhile, PD is working on more premiums, but some of the standards will likely fall through the cracks if GT6 is indeed being done on a shorter schedule than GT5.

The folks whining about &#8216;duplicate standards&#8217; likely won&#8217;t see the same issue come up with new premiums. Kaz had admitted that it happened in GT4 because he wanted to capture the subtle nuances of the different variants, but realized that they weren't really noticeable in-game. The cars were just carried over into GT5 and became standards. The selection of premiums in GT5 makes it apparent that Kaz isn&#8217;t intent on repeating that mistake.

http://jalopnik.com/238136/from-bucket-to-binary-morrison-corvette-scanned-into-gran-turismo

"new" way of scanning
Read. Too much to quote.

 

[VQuick]

http://jalopnik.com/assets/resources/2007/02/mor_02.jpg[/IMG

[url]http://jalopnik.com/238136/from-bucket-to-binary-morrison-corvette-scanned-into-gran-turismo[/url]

"new" way of scanning
Read. [B]Too much to quote.[/B][/QUOTE]

This is all that needs quoting.lol

[QUOTE]"They have a crew of 40 people that are going to spend the next six months building our car for the game. That's the amount of detail", said Craig.[/QUOTE]

The article was from three years before the launch of GT5, so that really gives you an idea of how time-intensive it still is to work on these cars.

 

[VQuick]

This. Ever notice that there is only one Skyline of each generation? I mean, yes there are four GTR-s but they are all very different in cost and performance.
They have one of each R33, R32, R34, V35, V36, V37, Z33, and Z34.
Which is a lot, but you can't say they are all the same.

Some have also wanted to see PD apply a variation of this philosophy to race cars as well. Instead of licensing individual, real race cars, especially for a series like Indy, NASCAR or F1 where cars largely look the same, use one generic body branded as a PD car combined with a livery editor to recreate the designs from real cars.

Quite a few seemed to like the idea, especially for F1. It would really help get the race car count up in an efficient way.

 

[OHM_fusion]

Quite a few seemed to like the idea, especially for F1. It would really help get the race car count up in an efficient way.

To be honest, as far as formula racing is concerned they could have just made the Formula Gran Turismo premium and make it paintable. It would have improved that aspect of the game immensely, at least for me, and all PD would have to do is model one car.

 

[another_jakhole]

This is all that needs quoting.lol



The article was from three years before the launch of GT5, so that really gives you an idea of how time-intensive it still is to work on these cars.

You were talking about the process of SCANning the car which accounts for about half of the article.

 

[VQuick]

To be honest, as far as formula racing is concerned they could have just made the Formula Gran Turismo premium and make it paintable. It would have improved that aspect of the game immensely, at least for me, and all PD would have to do is model one car.

What made the discussion interesting was that someone found screenshots from a non-US version of an older GT. It had a few Formula Gran Turismos, and they resembled F1s from different eras. It would be fantastic to have them as premiums and handle the 'F1' content of the game. Just go to town with the livery editor and replicate the liveries you like. The same approach could be used with NASCAR & Indy as well.

It was in the open wheeled car thread if you want to see the discussion.

 

[gamerdog6482]

What made the discussion interesting was that someone found screenshots from a non-US version of an older GT. It had a few Formula Gran Turismos, and they resembled F1s from different eras. It would be fantastic to have them as premiums and handle the 'F1' content of the game. Just go to town with the livery editor and replicate the liveries you like. The same approach could be used with NASCAR & Indy as well.

It was in the open wheeled car thread if you want to see the discussion.

That was from Gran Turismo 3. They most certainly were in the US version, but under different names. They were exact copies of F1 cars.

 

[Isho]

All im asking for is a Premium Supra. I really like the interior of the car. I didnt get it why the Veyron isnt premium. Seems they prefer a nissan leaf over a bugatti.

 

[gamerdog6482]

All im asking for is a Premium Supra. I really like the interior of the car. I didnt get it why the Veyron isnt premium. Seems they prefer a nissan leaf over a bugatti.

PD didn't pick and choose what cars they wanted to be premium. In fact, Jordan had an interview with Kaz once and asked Kaz the same thing. Kaz said that they were planning to from the beginning, but they ran out of time. Plus, the Nissan Leaf is DLC, so it's hardly a reasonable comparison.

 

[MSTER232]

PD didn't pick and choose what cars they wanted to be premium. In fact, Jordan had an interview with Kaz once and asked Kaz the same thing. Kaz said that they were planning to from the beginning, but they ran out of time. Plus, the Nissan Leaf is DLC, so it's hardly a reasonable comparison.

Pfff..... If they have time to waste on a 🤬 Nissan Leaf, they have time to spend on cars we actually want to drive. Come on PD!

 

[Earth]

What made the discussion interesting was that someone found screenshots from a non-US version of an older GT. It had a few Formula Gran Turismos, and they resembled F1s from different eras. It would be fantastic to have them as premiums and handle the 'F1' content of the game. Just go to town with the livery editor and replicate the liveries you like. The same approach could be used with NASCAR & Indy as well.

It was in the open wheeled car thread if you want to see the discussion.

I think we could capture the past 17 years of F1 with the 3 openwheel cars in GT5 if given a livery editor

Formula GT - 1995 - 2000

Ferrari F2007 - 2001-2008

Ferrari F10 - 2009 - Present

 

[gamerdog6482]

Pfff..... If they have time to waste on a 🤬 Nissan Leaf, they have time to spend on cars we actually want to drive. Come on PD!

I enjoyed driving the Leaf. I actually took it around TGTT to see if I could beat some kei car times. If you don't like it, that's fine. But you can't say that no one likes it.

 

[Samus]

PD didn't pick and choose what cars they wanted to be premium. In fact, Jordan had an interview with Kaz once and asked Kaz the same thing. Kaz said that they were planning to from the beginning, but they ran out of time. Plus, the Nissan Leaf is DLC, so it's hardly a reasonable comparison.

Isn't that the same thing? If they model car A in premium then run out of time to model car B in premium then they chose to model car A first.

 

[gamerdog6482]

Isn't that the same thing? If they model car A in premium then run out of time to model car B in premium then they chose to model car A first.

No, because they planned on having 1000 premiums from the beginning. Then they chose to scan them in whatever order and when Sony dropped the hammer they weren't nearly done yet.


Here is a link the the interview: Link. In the interview, Jordan asked KY specifically about the Veyron, and he said they ran out of time.

 

[Samus]

No, because they planned on having 1000 premiums from the beginning. Then they chose to scan them in whatever order and when Sony dropped the hammer they weren't nearly done yet.

They had enough time.

Here is a link the the interview: Link. In the interview, Jordan asked KY specifically about the Veyron, and he said they ran out of time.

But that's what I'm saying, they ran out of time because they CHOSE to model other cars first. That is choosing certain cars over others.

 

[OHM_fusion]

No, because they planned on having 1000 premiums from the beginning. Then they chose to scan them in whatever order and when Sony dropped the hammer they weren't nearly done yet.

What makes you think they wanted 1000 premiums from the beginning? If they make about 200 cars in about 5 years they couldn't make 1000 premiums even if they had 10 years.

I enjoyed driving the Leaf. I actually took it around TGTT to see if I could beat some kei car times. If you don't like it, that's fine. But you can't say that no one likes it.

👍

 

[gamerdog6482]

What makes you think they wanted 1000 premiums from the beginning? If they make about 200 cars in about 5 years they couldn't make 1000 premiums even if they had 10 years.

They were going to wait the 10 years to get the 1000 cars, that is common knowledge. Sony said that they couldn't wait the ten years, that is also common knowledge. Why we are discussing this in a GT6 thread is beyond me.

 

[Spagetti69]

They were going to wait the 10 years to get the 1000 cars, that is common knowledge.

You want fries with your link?

 

[Samus]

They were going to wait the 10 years to get the 1000 cars, that is common knowledge. Sony said that they couldn't wait the ten years, that is also common knowledge. Why we are discussing this in a GT6 thread is beyond me.

That's an interesting definition of common knowledge you've got there.