The '13 driver transfer discussion/speculation thread op updated 16/10

[astrosdude91]

Well to add fuel to the fire: Ferrari boss Luca Di Montezemolo believes 2013 would be too early to promote Sergio Perez to the number two Ferrari seat. So that's possibly a major blow to the Perez-Ferrari 2013 chances. So maybe they have another definite in mind.

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/283930/ferrari-next-year-is-too-early-for-perez/

 

[Ardius]

They could also be playing it down to make Perez accept shorter terms or lower pay - to put him under pressure to agree to their terms.

Alonso used to frequently deny the Ferrari rumours as well but everyone knew it was a done deal.

Perez to Ferrari might not happen in 2013 but everyone knows its pretty much a done deal to happen at some point.
And if Ferrari don't grab him then McLaren, Red Bull, Mercedes or Lotus surely will.

Personally if I was in charge at McLaren and I couldn't convince Hamilton to stay, Perez would be my first pick.

If we don't see Perez at Ferrari its either because they've signed Vettel or because another team have nabbed Perez from under their noses.

If Lewis signed at Mercedes, that's really McLaren's loss. They won't have much in the way of drivers of that caliber to choose from.

Personally I don't really see Hamilton as all that great. For all his highs, he's had some incredible lows. Certainly he's a loss but I'm pretty sure McLaren can find someone if not as good, at least more consistent and mentally stronger.

 

[zippy_the_cat]

Di Montezemolo strikes me as being the George Steinbrenner of F1.

 

[Dhalism]

Personally I don't really see Hamilton as all that great. For all his highs, he's had some incredible lows. Certainly he's a loss but I'm pretty sure McLaren can find someone if not as good, at least more consistent and mentally stronger.

Alonso begs to differ

 

[Ardius]

^Er, Alonso just says Hamilton is good, and supposes that Hamilton is "the only one" who is able to win in a car that shouldn't win. (gee, I guess he forgot Vettel-STR there )

That doesn't really "beg to differ" - my point was that Hamilton is not bigger than McLaren..they can survive without him believe it or not - though it will be a loss. Its not like McLaren should bend over backwards to keep him, even when Lewis is being a complete idiot releasing telementary or demanding more money.

To me this whole situation is more about Hamilton deciding where he goes, not McLaren. Its not going to be McLaren's loss, but Hamilton's. Or rather its going to be more of a loss to Hamilton except maybe in pay.

Lets put it like this - is Hamilton irreplacable? Nope. In fact the recent rumour is Raikkonen to McLaren....

 

[Dhalism]

^Er, Alonso just says Hamilton is good, and supposes that Hamilton is "the only one" who is able to win in a car that shouldn't win.

That doesn't really "beg to differ" - my point was that Hamilton is not bigger than McLaren..they can survive without him believe it or not - though it will be a loss. Its not like McLaren should bend over backwards to keep him, even when Lewis is being a complete idiot releasing telementary or demanding more money.

To me this whole situation is more about Hamilton deciding where he goes, not McLaren. Its not going to be McLaren's loss, but Hamilton's.

Just posting a link people might find intersting.
As a Hamilton fan i generally remove myself from these discussions cause i doubt i can be objective

 

[hawkeye122]

Raikkonen and Button would be the safest, least risky team ever.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I can't see Raikkonen going back to McLaren.

 

[Bram Turismo]

Raikkonen has been stunning this season. He seems like that ice-cold Kimi we saw at Mclaren once again. I'm so delighted to see this Kimi back. Say about the man what you want, he has been away for 2 seasons, comes back and currently sits merely one point away from standing 2nd in the standings. He may have scored so many points on consistency and not outright speed, but he is driving a Lotus after all. Not a bad car, not at all, but not a car with outright speed either.

Raikkonen at Mclaren? Make it happen!

 

[niky]

Hamilton is definitely one of the few who can make a bad car win... but Alonso is perhaps downplaying the fact that he is the other sure bet for bringing dogs in on the podium.

-

Perez to McLaren (if Ferrari don't sign him) could be very interesting.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Raikkonen at Mclaren? Make it happen!

I don't see it happening.

As near as I can tell, the "rumours" of Raikkonen going back to McLaren were started by Raikkonen fanboys once it became apparent a seat might open up. Lotus isn't winning, which means Raikkonen isn't winning, but now that there is talk that a seat may become available at a team that can win, the fanboys push for Raikkonen to join. It's the same logic used by Hamilton fans trying to make out that he would move to Red Bull.

 

[HeXoSKEL3t0n]

Raikkonen isn't going to Mclaren (for next year at
least), he's got a two year contract with Lotus till 2013. End of story.

There's no need to accuse people of being fanboys or whatever not. If you don't have anything good to say, then don't say anything...

Besides, Raikkonen seems quite happy in Lotus so I don't see how he'd be moving anytime soon.

Raikkonen has been stunning this season. He seems like that ice-cold Kimi we saw at Mclaren once again. I'm so delighted to see this Kimi back. Say about the man what you want, he has been away for 2 seasons, comes back and currently sits merely one point away from standing 2nd in the standings. He may have scored so many points on consistency and not outright speed, but he is driving a Lotus after all. Not a bad car, not at all, but not a car with outright speed either.

Raikkonen at Mclaren? Make it happen!

Good to see him back 👍. He may have lost a bit of edge in qualifying compared to his Mclaren days IMO, but nevertheless still a true racer that's brilliant to watch.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I'm not saying Bram is a fanboy. I'm saying the talk of Raikkonen going to McLaren was started by fanboys.

 

[Peter.]

I remember rumors spreading around after Kimi was paid off by Ferrari in 2009, that Red Bull and McLaren both wanted him to drive for them, but neither team could agree regarding his salary, so both fell through. It was the McLaren rumors that were more popular at the time, especially with Kovaleinen being sacked.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I remember that. I suspect Raikkonen was paid off by Ferrari, and then deliberately priced imself out of the driver market so that when he left the sport, it would look like he did so because he could not find a drive, rather than because he had been paid to go somewhere else.

 

[HeXoSKEL3t0n]

I'm not saying Bram is a fanboy. I'm saying the talk of Raikkonen going to McLaren was started by fanboys.

Noted.

But in the end, some speculation about drivers' moving teams when there's an open slot or when the driver's not bound to a contract are bound to be inevitable, especially with high profile world champions.

 

[Bram Turismo]

I'm not saying Bram is a fanboy. I'm saying the talk of Raikkonen going to McLaren was started by fanboys.

Well, deep down I am kind of a Raikkonen fanboy. I started watching F1 first in 2002, and up until this point no driver has entertained me more than Montoya and Raikkonen. 2003 was such a good season to watch, with the ice-cold Kimi at Mclaren and the balls-to-the-walls Montoya. Montoya was surely a pain to work with, but at least he had some character on the track with his daring moves and aggressive defending.

I don't really care if Raikkonen moves at all, or whether he stays at Lotus. I just hope Lotus won't fall into another dip next season, because it is very clear that Raikkonen is a championship contender.

I feel like Raikkonen's efforts have gone by under the radar with all the Hamilton stuff going around lately, but if you look at the standings you just have to give this man credit for doing this well in a Lotus, and in his first season after he took a break.

 

[MagpieRacer]

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/283969/kovalainen-s-management-visits-ferrari/

Kovalainen to Ferrari? Could almost be a done deal if the sources are reliable.

 

[TheCracker]

There's an article in the latest edition of Motor Sport Magazine about driver contracts. The main focus is an interview with Martin Whitmarsh talking about the contents of a modern driver-team contract. He mentions in it that a McLaren contract is a two part document, one half of the contract is about driving for the team and the other part is about representing the team commercially and how both parts are equally important. Martin does mention Kimi and his reluctance to do sponsor activities and the like. You get the impression that he wouldn't be all that high on his list of drivers to have at McLaren again.

 

[Racingworld68]

I feel like Raikkonen's efforts have gone by under the radar with all the Hamilton stuff going around lately, but if you look at the standings you just have to give this man credit for doing this well in a Lotus, and in his first season after he took a break.

+1

The Lotus is certainly not the best car, and yet he is able to bring the car home and score points in almost every GP. In my opinion Kimi is still worth the name 'worldchampion' !!!

 

[Bye Ya]

Came across this article on speculations this morning. Nothing new though, really.

 

[Peasantslayer]

+1

The Lotus is certainly not the best car, and yet he is able to bring the car home and score points in almost every GP. In my opinion Kimi is still worth the name 'worldchampion' !!!

I'd say the Lotus has had the best race pace on average this season (the last high downforce circuit we went to it was clearly much faster than the Mclaren), whenever Kimi overtakes someone people get overly excited. It's hard to judge but I would say that at this moment in time that Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton are the best on the grid. If he goes to Mclaren and Button is happy with the balance of his car like he is now it would be interesting to see where they are at the end of 2013, at the moment we are comparing 2 unknown quantities at Lotus because the last time Grosjean and Kimi where in F1 they were driving badly. Has Grosjean really improved that much? and is Kimi as good as he was in 2007?

 

[Mt. Lynx]

Hmm, I'll post my own speculative list then.
We all know Massa is most likely out of Ferrari. Who will replace him? Most likely it will be Perez. A slim chance it may be Hamilton, but him and Alonso? Unlikely. Massa? Probably to Lotus or Mercedes. Kimi will either stay with Lotus or go to McLaren. Schumacher will most likely re-retire, wich opens a spot for either Perez or Hamilton. Sauber rather than Ferrari will pick up Kovalainen. Red Bull will keep both their drivers. Force India will most likely restructure in some way, but I have no predictions there.

 

[Peasantslayer]

Hmm, I'll post my own speculative list then.
We all know Massa is most likely out of Ferrari. Who will replace him? Most likely it will be Perez. A slim chance it may be Hamilton, but him and Alonso? Unlikely. Massa? Probably to Lotus or Mercedes. Kimi will either stay with Lotus or go to McLaren. Schumacher will most likely re-retire, wich opens a spot for either Perez or Hamilton. Sauber rather than Ferrari will pick up Kovalainen. Red Bull will keep both their drivers. Force India will most likely restructure in some way, but I have no predictions there.

I'm sure Perez said recently that he is happy at Sauber when questioned about next year. I think whoever goes to Ferrari (if someone does go) will have to be number 2 to Alonso, Massa is doing a decent job of supporting him.

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

I'm really not sure Massa is will be kicked, like Peasantslayer said, he's doing a decent job and he's accepting all team order very well. Domenicali said Perez is too young to go to ferrari next year, so it wont be him most likely. As for the rest, it's all speculation, Schumacher seems still pretty interested since he went to supervise the Young driver testing this week and check on Mercedes, doesnt really looks like he's ready to retire, or maybe he's gonna take a spot in the Mercedes team.

It seems for me that a lot of things are rumor made by journalist.

 

[astrosdude91]

This is purely speculation on my end. But if Ferrari does indeed show Massa the door, I could really see him ending up at Force India.

 

[Ardius]

Massa is doing a decent job of supporting him.

I'm really not sure Massa is will be kicked, like Peasantslayer said, he's doing a decent job and he's accepting all team order very well.

Alonso - 179 points
Massa - 47 points



Massa is not doing "a decent job" and isn't supporting Alonso at all! He's rarely taking points off Alonso's main rivals and rarely ever has to move for him because he's so much slower!

What planet do you live on to consider this as a decent job?!? Massa has sucked the past 3 years. He really isn't showing he deserves such a top seat anymore and there are plenty of drivers who can do better.

People used to mock Barrichello but at least he was good enough to actually be ahead of Michael enough that team orders were required!

I'm pretty sure Perez would jump at a decent Ferrari contract because its a top seat. Sauber is pretty close right now but theres no assurance in them being there again next year. Ferrari is at least a big budget team and the chance at regular race victories must surely appeal!

 

[prisonermonkeys]

What planet do you live on to consider this as a decent job?!?

He's doing a good job if you can only remember as far back as the last two races.

 

[HeXoSKEL3t0n]

Well if Massa keeps up his performance in the last two races, I don't see how Ferrari would want to drop him.

After all, they're looking for a reliable number two to help Ferrari earn points for their WCC without disturbing Alonso's chase for the WDC.

Massa has fufilled this in Spa and Monza, now Ferrari only has to see whether he can maintain this performance.

 

[Ardius]

At Spa, he qualified 14th and finished 5th thanks to Hamilton, Alonso, Grosjean, Maldonado and Perez DNF'ing plus Kobayashi suffering damage. Thats 6 cars that are faster than him out of the way in one corner.

At Monza he did do a lot better (as he did in Silverstone). But in an entire season of sub-par performances.

He's yet to even score a podium in a car that Alonso is leading the championship with. He's done nothing this year to convince that he deserves his seat still.

Why do people think that being "a good number 2" means being slow and scoring less than a third of Alonso's points?
A good number 2 to me is someone who is only slightly slower than the number 1 so that when the number 1 driver retires or suffers problems, the number 2 is always there to pick up the wins, podiums and points to ensure that the number 1's rivals score less points and that the team secure the WCC.
Massa really doesn't meet this definition as he is rarely ever there to back up Alonso and doesn't score enough points for the team. How many Ferrari 1-2s have we had lately?

If Ferrari had a decent 2nd driver they wouldn't be 3rd in the WCC standings.