The '13 driver transfer discussion/speculation thread op updated 16/10

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From /r/Formula1, this guy shares the same sentiment as me:

He's less prepared than Sirotkin, although more talented. Sirotkin has been in FR3.5 and Auto GP, big cars with lots of downforce. Daniil hasn't drove anything faster than a GP3 car and has barely any testing in F1. I fear this is a rash decision by Red Bull and will ruin a big time talent.

We did have the same jump from Valtteri, and he's doing fine, but he also had lots of time in an F1 car (for a modern rookie) since he took a bunch of FP1's from Senna last year.
 
Kvyat isn't ready yet. He looked second tier in Euro F3 and only truly came to life the last few races in GP3, before that he was as mediocre as the rest of the grid. He has potential, but he's never raced a big single seater (GP2 or FR3.5) and hasn't consistently looked top notch in the lower categories. Daniil needs a year in FR3.5, not an F1 seat.

Edit: Agreed with Wardez, though I'm not ready to declare if he's more or less talented than Sirotkin. Daniil looks more promising though.
 
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I read an article the other day talking about the relative successes of the Red Bull young driver programme and it made a point about Red Bull selecting drivers based on marketing potential early on - Klien being Austrian, Liuzzi supposedly because of his "young, hip" image, Speed for the American market, etc. I felt it was really clutching at straws seeing as Bourdais, Vettel, Buemi, Alguesuari, Ricciardo and Verge don't fit that.

But Kvyat? And with a Russian GP soon? I don't think I need to go on and on about this as its been discussed a thousand times - but Alguesuari, Verstappen, etc spring to mind.

I guess Robin Frijns can feel justified in not joining Red Bull seeing as its not really done Da Costa any good.
 
The folks who did Autosport's big package on the Red Bull program earlier this month seem to have caught a whiff that something was up. They rated de Costa "a strong contender" for the STR seat but also said Kvyat was "increasingly highly-rated" by Red Bull. Sainz in contrast to both was spinning his wheels in the GP3 mid-pack.

Edit: James Allen is also claiming to have picked up rumblings, though I can't remember him reporting them in advance of the announcement:

"But this site heard from senior drivers in the Red Bull programme that the one they felt had the most talent was Kvyat and it is reassuring to see that the management shares this view."

Edit again: Allen got a rumble, but discounted it.
 
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Sainz Jr is only running off his father's image and if he knew what was good for him he'd move toward Le Mans Series or WRC. Costa should have had the drive and this gimmick BS in F1 is really pushing me away from following the young prospects due to their back story. Either it be money, image, nepotism, all of the above or more than one it gets annoying. I hate to be one of those cynical nostalgic racing enthusiast/fanatics but I miss the days when it wasn't so abundant. I mean I could never several racing drivers that seem to be getting a shot at the F1 paddock due to these more so than outright raw speed, race craft or technical adaptability.
 
What age are you? People have been getting drives based on factors other than talent since car racing began. It's become more prominent since teams realized they could make money sticking company names on the cars, but it existed even before then.

The current era of F1 isn't even the worst for pay drivers. Far from it.

Before the sponsors arrived, you still had the odd driver with more money than talent. Not to mention those getting selected based on their nationality.
 
Sad for Felix da Costa, I do hope he finds his way (in single seaters) around this, but it won't be easy. Red Bull can either make you or crush you and apparently AFC has been crushed. I hope he, as Filipe Albuquerque before him, gets a chance to shine elsewhere, although it must be very hard to steer your career away from F1 when you came so close to fulfill that dream.
 
Sainz Jr has incredible car control, watching his onboards is art, but he doesn't have the results. He had a decent debut year in FR3.5, he may yet come good yet.
Stoffel Vandoorne was offered the STR drive, but rejected it:
http://www.f1technical.net/news/18861
Yeah, we've known this for a few days. Should have been a big red sign signalling that Red Bull wasn't very confident in AFdC, but the Kvyat announcement still caught me off guard.
 
F1 fan
What age are you? People have been getting drives based on factors other than talent since car racing began. It's become more prominent since teams realized they could make money sticking company names on the cars, but it existed even before then.

The current era of F1 isn't even the worst for pay drivers. Far from it.

Soapbox time.

The problem is that vaguely 30% of the 2014 field will be pay drivers. We're getting folks that don't even have decent GP3/FR results. Things like WINS, for goodness sake. F1 is not getting the best talent, and that will become a problem in the future. I'm not a death-knell-for-F1 person, but how is a sport with the most amazing technology and budgets going to appeal to fans when they're driven by glorified amateurs? It makes no sense.

Something's gotta give.

/rant.
 
GP2 has already reached the point where its too expensive + poor overall quality in drivers. F1 is not immune to the same problem.
Same as the WRC and WTCC too.

I'd go as far as saying DTM has a better overall quality of drivers on the grid than a lot of "World" series out there.
 
What age are you? People have been getting drives based on factors other than talent since car racing began. It's become more prominent since teams realized they could make money sticking company names on the cars, but it existed even before then.

The current era of F1 isn't even the worst for pay drivers. Far from it.

Before the sponsors arrived, you still had the odd driver with more money than talent. Not to mention those getting selected based on their nationality.

Yes I realize that, not sure what the age has to do with it but that is just your "charm" F1fan. My point was that it seems there are plenty in the wings waiting for a seat but are more so their due to their famous Dad or Uncle drove some time ago. I mean I can't say this is all bad, because one of my favorite champions was one such case. But if you don't like me critique we could go further.:)

and what Pupik said.
 
It's a shame that at the last moment, Russian money speaks higher than the talent of Felix da Costa. F1 is so unfair sometimes.
 
I'd go as far as saying DTM has a better overall quality of drivers on the grid than a lot of "World" series out there.

agreed. if not the best drivers, at least the most competitive and compelling racing, as well as good tracks. too bad coverage in the UK is limited :(

been hoping for a long time that GT series would include DTM more than just an older CLK. Used to love the old TOCA games
 
Soapbox time.

The problem is that vaguely 30% of the 2014 field will be pay drivers. We're getting folks that don't even have decent GP3/FR results. Things like WINS, for goodness sake. F1 is not getting the best talent, and that will become a problem in the future. I'm not a death-knell-for-F1 person, but how is a sport with the most amazing technology and budgets going to appeal to fans when they're driven by glorified amateurs? It makes no sense.

Something's gotta give.

/rant.
Not this **** again. :rolleyes:
The situation is nothing new for F1. In fact, your rant would have been a lot better if Karthikeyan, Yamamoto, Belmondo or Deletraz had just secured a seat, but, Sutil aside, every driver on this year's grid or already secured for next year has either won in GP2 (or equivalent) or was/is considered a potential big talent. Of course, some talents never get a shot, recently Wickens and potentially Frijns, but this is nothing new either.
I'd go as far as saying DTM has a better overall quality of drivers on the grid than a lot of "World" series out there.
That's not really surprising considering the money there is in DTM and how international that series is. I don't know if WTCC ever had better drivers than DTM.
It's a shame that at the last moment, Russian money speaks higher than the talent of Felix da Costa. F1 is so unfair sometimes.
Or maybe the talent of Kvyat speaks higher than the underperforming of da Costa. 💡
agreed. if not the best drivers, at least the most competitive and compelling racing, as well as good tracks. too bad coverage in the UK is limited :(
DTM's best assets are the drivers these days. The racing is usually dull, they use F1-style gimmicks, there's abundant team orders, there's contentious penalty decisions, and the tracks are mostly not that great (will be worse now that Zandvoort is gone :(). Nevertheless, it's still easily worth watching and DTM is as relevant as it's ever been.
 
That's not really surprising considering the money there is in DTM and how international that series is. I don't know if WTCC ever had better drivers than DTM.

Well its only really the last couple of years that DTM has had a particularly strong line-up mostly boosted by GT and touring car aces like Farfus and Priaulx plus younger drivers who didn't quite make F1 like Wickens and Vietoris.
2000-2010 didn't really have very strong fields.

I'd also say its debatable how "international" the series is, I don't see it as any more international than BTCC or V8 Supercars are.

WTCC has had some very strong fields such as in 2005. But for the most part its never really been a top class championship. Its probably the least elite of the "World Championship" series as BTCC, DTM, V8 Supercars, etc all hold on to to most of their top drivers.

DTM's best assets are the drivers these days. The racing is usually dull, they use F1-style gimmicks, there's abundant team orders, there's contentious penalty decisions, and the tracks are mostly not that great (will be worse now that Zandvoort is gone :(). Nevertheless, it's still easily worth watching and DTM is as relevant as it's ever been.

Agreed, DTM is pretty dull especially compared to its equivelants. But it does have a very high quality driver line-up.
 
Well its only really the last couple of years that DTM has had a particularly strong line-up mostly boosted by GT and touring car aces like Farfus and Priaulx plus younger drivers who didn't quite make F1 like Wickens and Vietoris.
2000-2010 didn't really have very strong fields.

I'd also say its debatable how "international" the series is, I don't see it as any more international than BTCC or V8 Supercars are.

WTCC has had some very strong fields such as in 2005. But for the most part its never really been a top class championship. Its probably the least elite of the "World Championship" series as BTCC, DTM, V8 Supercars, etc all hold on to to most of their top drivers.
Yeah, for sure, the driver lineups are a lot better in DTM now than what they used to be, especially in terms of depth. In the mid 00s, there were good drivers competing for wins but there wasn't nearly as much depth as there is now, so you can certainty make the argument that WTCC had better drivers in it's early years. However my principle point was that WTCC never clearly established itself on another level from DTM, so now that WTCC has started to struggle without much manufacturer support, it's quite unsurprising that DTM has clearly pulled ahead.

As for the "international" status of DTM, I think it's become far more international than BTCC and V8 Supercars. Looking at the 2013 season, only 60% of DTM races are in Germany and only 36% of the drivers are German. Contrast to BTCC where 100% of the races are in Britain and 95%+ of the drivers are British and V8 Supercars where 86% of the races are in Australia and ~80% of the regular drivers are Australian (and there most of the foreign content is from nearby New Zealand). Then there's DTM's aggressive approach to China, the establishment of their international youtube account, and the availability of foreign language commentary for DTM races, I don't think V8 Supercars and BTCC are comparable at this time. Certain national series such as Indycars, Super GT and V8 Supercars have made steps to become more international, though some have tried more than others, and recently DTM is really making a big push.
 
Boullier is great. He doesn't beat around the bush. Any other team principal would be making noises about how they're keeping their options open and they don't want to commit and blah blah blah.

Boullier is just all "yeah, we want Hulkenburg, but we're talking to other people just in case".
 
Yes I realize that, not sure what the age has to do with it but that is just your "charm" F1fan. My point was that it seems there are plenty in the wings waiting for a seat but are more so their due to their famous Dad or Uncle drove some time ago. I mean I can't say this is all bad, because one of my favorite champions was one such case. But if you don't like me critique we could go further.:)

Excuse me? I asked you how old you were. It was a straight up question with no intended hostility. The fact that you took it as a hostile question may be part of your own "charm". Your post implied that there were too many people in F1 nowadays due to factors other than talent. I wanted to know how old you were because it's been that way for so long, few members of GTPlanet are old enough to remember differently. The current pay drivers really aren't that bad either. Hell, even the man currently most associated with the "pay driver" tag managed to keep his act together and win a Grand Prix.

And there have always been talented drivers who missed out on a seat due to their lack of funds. It's not new, nor is it specific to F1. Yes, in an ideal world, talent would be the only factor but the world isn't ideal. Let's not forget how expensive it is to compete in F1. The teams need to find the budget somewhere. All motor racing teams do. Look at Nascar and Indycar. The commentators even read out the sponsor names on TV. :lol:
 
Excuse me? I asked you how old you were. It was a straight up question with no intended hostility. The fact that you took it as a hostile question may be part of your own "charm". Your post implied that there were too many people in F1 nowadays due to factors other than talent. I wanted to know how old you were because it's been that way for so long, few members of GTPlanet are old enough to remember differently. The current pay drivers really aren't that bad either. Hell, even the man currently most associated with the "pay driver" tag managed to keep his act together and win a Grand Prix.

Every dog has their day, even a blind squirrel can find a nut, add your generic figure of speech on the matter. Even in a bad car we see that others perform better than him, and even in a good car or decent one rather, he utilized one great result and squandered many others. I mean this is as bad as GTB says over and over about how the current up coming are supposedly big talent, when really they won in the feeder level against the left over that weren't that good to move up. Also I'd say Sergio and Esteban are more associated since their backer is also the richest man in the world but that is irrelevant. I'm sure once all the top drivers have become old and leave f1 then we may see the likes of Maldonado and similar drivers win a championship. However, I've watched F1 since the early 90s so I'm aware.

And there have always been talented drivers who missed out on a seat due to their lack of funds. It's not new, nor is it specific to F1. Yes, in an ideal world, talent would be the only factor but the world isn't ideal. Let's not forget how expensive it is to compete in F1. The teams need to find the budget somewhere. All motor racing teams do. Look at Nascar and Indycar. The commentators even read out the sponsor names on TV. :lol:

:lol: Nascar and Indycar aren't anything like F1 there are plenty of no names that make it on the premier of those series, unlike F1. Also teams though needing to find a budget must also learn to use their own PR better than relying on drivers to come in and do it for them. They want to live in F1 and run in a top of the world racing series perhaps being more business savvy will save the likes of Sauber. Obviously bringing in tons and tons of money from drivers doesn't help further speed the car up year after year so something else needs to change.
 
I mean this is as bad as GTB says over and over about how the current up coming are supposedly big talent, when really they won in the feeder level against the left over that weren't that good to move up.
For clarification, and to not be misrepresented by LMS's sensationalism, my view is that recent F1 newcomers are mostly good talent and they are often the best that is available. I'm not interested in arguing with LMS anymore though, I know how he operates.
 
For clarification, and to not be misrepresented by LMS's sensationalism, my view is that recent F1 newcomers are mostly good talent and they are often the best that is available. I'm not interested in arguing with LMS anymore though, I know how he operates.

How am I sensationalizing things when you did in fact make comment on how they are "potential upcoming big talent", which is what I was making reference too. Also I'd love to be informed on your knowledge of how I supposedly operate. It seems more realistic that you don't like the fact that I'm so blunt with you.
 
I also wrote "Sutil aside" and "or won in GP2".

I already countered that in the post to F1fan thus killing two birds with one stone. The only thing I didn't address was Sutil which is there because of the medion money and not really merit, unless a solid placeholder for a driver is what a team needs.
 
SagarisGTB
Not this **** again. :rolleyes:
The situation is nothing new for F1. In fact, your rant would have been a lot better if Karthikeyan, Yamamoto, Belmondo or Deletraz had just secured a seat, but, Sutil aside, every driver on this year's grid or already secured for next year has either won in GP2 (or equivalent) or was/is considered a potential big talent.

Yes, this again. After all, they're still doing it. Only Karthikeyan had a full year in a seat, and Belmondo wasn't that bad considering how tiny and financially broke the March was.

The crap teams keep opting for pay drivers, that's nothing new. When STR (with tons of Red Bull money) is doing it, there's a problem. Here's a clue, the status quo won't change in F1 by following it's own tail for a half-decade, and that will turn off its fan base somewhat. I'm not saying the FIA needs to step in, because then we get artificial gimmicks, but doing things the same way and expecting different results leads to...

Why these teams aren't at least taking the journeyman route and taking drivers with experience is baffling to me, if the talent pool is so drained. At least some experience comes with that, and it can help the team. Not every new helmet has world champion underneath it, that's statistically for certain, but taking a couple of undeveloped drivers with half-assed resumes is only going to yield more half-assed results.
 
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