The 20 tracks issue is really bugging me

[Sadaiyappan]

More tracks as DLC?

 

[PSNkilluminati]

i hope most of the tracks aren't dlc

 

[marchi]

How can you say 'most likely' though?

That most likely is just based on your own reasoning. I'm not saying that it is wrong, in fact I agree that 20 - 30 tracks seems very unlikely, and would be pretty disappointing, but as far as actual evidence is concerned, you know, actual tangible evidence given by PD, all we've been given is the more than 20 tracks that has been translated numerous times by actual Japanese speakers.

I know it's surprising and seems very unlikely logically speaking, but that's what PD have said, and until they say otherwise, there is no point saying well I expect 80 tracks, or 96 tracks, or what they must have really meant was 20 new tracks and they were just implying that every other track they've done will be included...

Sure, that's what you wanted them to mean, but it's not what they put, and that's that.

I can't stress enough how much I agree with you despite seemingly 'having a go', I think less than 30 tracks is ridiculous, given NASCAR, WRC and the tracks already in GT5P, but it's all we've been given, so that's all we've got to go on really, and trying to twist what was said so that it makes everybody feel better isn't going to help...

Fair do's, but the fact of the matter is, its very hard to interpret Japanese 'or many other Asian languages' to English, as the languages share very little in terms of language style and meaning, so people using translations of texts as hard fact is a bit of a push.

Words can differentiate in context between the two languages, even though they say similar things. For example, I attend a private school that has a wide range of Asian students 'Korean, Japanese, Chinese, Singaporean, Malaysian' and the interpretation of even simple sentences comes across in completely different meanings.

I'm not saying they're false, but like everything else, needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. I wouldn't be all that concerned however, as it would reflect poorly on Polyphony if they were to release only 20 circuits with the full game. What we do know is this.

Fuji 2 layouts
Suzuka 3 layouts
London
La Sarthe 2 layouts
Nurbugring 2 layouts
Indy 2 layouts
Route 248
Daytona 2 layouts
Eiger
Topgear Test Track 'several layouts'

10 tracks, not including Rally course and other tracks.

Apparently thats already half the designated circuits and 16 out of the 60 layouts stated.

 

[sejtur]

All those tracks we have now have only 2 layouts. If there would only be 20 tracks, 60 layours every track should have at least 3 layouts then. Or some tracks should have something like 4, 5, 6... I don't see that happening.

I think PD did it as a joke. For a small time putting it on the site, and then mysterically disappearing.

 

[G.T.Ace]

I'm not saying they're false, but like everything else, needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. I wouldn't be all that concerned however, as it would reflect poorly on Polyphony if they were to release only 20 circuits with the full game. What we do know is this.

Fuji 2 layouts (maybe 4, 90's & 80's)
Suzuka 3 layouts
London (2 with reverse)
La Sarthe 2 layouts
Nurbugring 2 layouts (most probably only 1)
Indy 2 layouts
Route 248 (2 with reverse)
Daytona 2 layouts
Eiger (2 with reverse)
Topgear Test Track 'several layouts'
High Speed Ring (2 with reverse)
Tsukuba

And we still have Madrid, where we dont know which variations it will have.

 

[regnar]

I realize that this has been beat to death, but sometimes visualizing something is the best way to understanding it. Please don't add to this
list, I am using it for illustration purposes only.

Referring to the Official Japanese Website, translated
* More than 20 courses. * Layout of more than 60,

The way that I am counting Courses & Layouts, are as follows:
Daytona Speedway is a Course, Daytona-Oval & Daytona-Road Course are Layouts
Grand Valley Speedway is a Course, Grand Valley Speedway & Grand Valley East is are Layouts
and so on

Note: GT4 had 40 Courses & 53 Layouts - Prima Guide


In my example below i am figuring for 22 Courses & 62 layouts, the more part

Courses - "* More than 20 courses"
Courses seen in GT5P, Demos & E3 Videos, Modeled to GT5 Standards

1. Circuit de la Sarthe
2. Daytona Speedway
3. Eiger Nordwand
4. Fuji Speedway
5. High Speed Ring
6. Indianapolis Speedway
7. London
8. Norburgring Nordschleife
9. Rally Toscana
10. Suzuka Circuit
11. Top Gear Test Track?
12. Tokyo Route 246
13. Tskukuba Circuit
14. Madrid
15. ?
16. ?
17. ?
18. ?
19. ?
20. ?
21. ?
22. ?

Appox. 8 Courses remaining


Layouts - " * Layout of more than 60"

1. Circuit de la Sarthe with chicanes
2. Circuit de la Sarthe without chicanes
3. Daytona Speedway - Super Speedway
4. Daytona Speedway - Road Course
5. Eiger Norwand
6. Fuji Speedway
7. Fuji Speedway - GT
8. High Speed Ring
9. Indianapolis Motor Speedway - Oval
10. Indianapolis Motor Speedway - Road Course
11. London
12. Norburgring Nordschleife
13. Rally Toscona
14. Suzuka Circuit
15. Suzuka Circuit - East
16. Suzuka Circuit - West
17. Top Gear Test Track?
18. Tokyo Route 246
19. Tskukuba Circuit
20. Madrid
30. ?
..
62. ?


Approx 42 Layouts remaining

Using approx 8 Courses remaining with 42 Layouts remaining, that would leave 5.25 Layouts per each remaining Course.

Unfortunately this leaves us with a considerable amount of layouts to fill per each remaining Courses. It's the relationship of the 60 Layouts to the 20 Courses, thats in error, not the 20 Courses


Note - I did not include Courses that have reverse events, since reverse is a direction not a layout.

Just too many layouts for the remaining courses. The way to approach this is
to conclude that this portion of the list is in error.

In about three and half weeks time we will get our answer.

 

[Sureboss]

A LOT of people on this forum, really need to get grasp the concept of common sense. The thread poster in this thread is testament alone to this concept.

The 20 tracks are an increase on the 50 from GT4. All they will do with those tracks from GT4, is upscale them. They're not going to go out and digitally remake every single track. Waste of money, time and effort.

As for the cars, it will feature similar style. Yes the physics will change, but the car model wont. They will source out each car, create the internals, and proceed to the next car. Again, no point wasting money and time on redoing each car.

I along with everybody else should be quite content with 170 cars with damage, considering that if PD are going to do it, its not going to be a half arsed boj job.

Upscaling isn't as simple as it sounds. We increased our native resolution last year and everything was re-designed. It has to be. As said by Dave, GT4 and GT5 models are completely different. There'd probably be some design they could carry over from GT4, doubt it'd be much, nor anything more than a base.

 

[Forgetful]

My theory is that the press release was leaked 'accidentally on purpose'. I think it was filled with mostly true information, but it was also sprinkled with deliberate misinformation, just for the purpose of fueling debate and maintaining a fevered pitch in the online communities that hang on PD's every word.

Didn't the same article, translated properly, that only the 170 premium cars would have interiors? That has since been, basically, debunked by the inclusion of interiors on most of the old GT4 cars that we're seeing in GT PSP.

 

[rofajole]

Is everybody forgetting about that the Eiger we have, it's only Eiger "Short"?? I still think there's at least 2 other layouts of Eiger, seeing that there's 3 roads closed on the GT5P version.

 

[aaron17]

is it hard to simulate weather on every track (60+)?...if PD can do that , it would be like more tracks .. .... But I know selected tracks may have weather..hmm

 

[Dave A]

Simulating weather isn't an issue if PD a: want to do it properly and b: the PS3 can handle it visually with a full grid. The visual rain effects can be universal for the most part, and you just load thoes onto a track. You don't actually have to design Suzuka dry and Suzuka wet, you design Suzuka and then you simply load the rain effects onto the track. If required you load a different sky and maybe different textures for certain things, you might want the road to be darker and shinier, but you just edit the existing textures. The physics side of things is just altering properties here and there, primarily the grip coefficients of the tracks surfaces (tarmac grass etc) but a good game engine should make it relatively simple to implement.

 

[RAVELLRON]

20 Tracks in gt5 that we wait for 5 years is a crazy thought...
close this stupid topic please...

 

[fasj6418]

Is everybody forgetting about that the Eiger we have, it's only Eiger "Short"?? I still think there's at least 2 other layouts of Eiger, seeing that there's 3 roads closed on the GT5P version.

Not only that, but people are also forgetting that KY already said the London track on GTP is the short one, so two more layouts on that one, London Long and London Long Reverse.

 

[Blackhawkshark]

the person who started this thread must be really clumsy

 

[L'il Hill]

20 tracks or 200, its freakin' GT5 and I'm gonna buy it.

I do wish they'd throw in a few tracks I can afford to drive in real life-- like Willow Springs or Button Willow. I know The Ring is like $10 bucks, but thats a hefty cab fare from the Left Coast.

 

[alba]

I'd say what's worse is the 15 pages that followed

 

[RAVELLRON]

there will be 60 tracks with respetctive layouts and 20 new tracks... this were wrote in the japanese post and this site and press like multiplayer told...
nowhere there's wrote only 20 tracks... i hope people thinking about only 20 tracks are joking... cuz they must go to the doctor if they are thinking this really..
also amar told more than 80 tracks...
what is 20 and 60 layouts?????
will be 60 tracks that we already knows plus 20 all news...
plus if you are thinking about all the new nascar license an wrc, where you will drive your wrc cars in the highspeed ring layouts???
close this topic...

 

[Maggot666PL]

Simulating weather isn't an issue if PD a: want to do it properly and b: the PS3 can handle it visually with a full grid. The visual rain effects can be universal for the most part, and you just load thoes onto a track. You don't actually have to design Suzuka dry and Suzuka wet, you design Suzuka and then you simply load the rain effects onto the track. If required you load a different sky and maybe different textures for certain things, you might want the road to be darker and shinier, but you just edit the existing textures. The physics side of things is just altering properties here and there, primarily the grip coefficients of the tracks surfaces (tarmac grass etc) but a good game engine should make it relatively simple to implement.

What about the drying perfect line (like in an F1 race), affected by the number of cars and their lines? That is a bit harder to do.

 

[marchi]

What about the drying perfect line (like in an F1 race), affected by the number of cars and their lines? That is a bit harder to do.

Not many games actually do that. In any case, its simply a mathematical equation, where the data tells the rain to gradually decrease and the track to dry in 25% 'or what ever you want' increments per lap. Its also the same with the weight of rain on the surface. At a certain point it will say, stop the increase of rain here.

While it may be a neat effect, most companies will not put major effort in to simulating weather. Its essentially either raining or not.

 

[Maggot666PL]

Not many games actually do that.

Not many games have weather changing during the race. Frankly I don't remember playing any game (tarmac, circuit racer) with weather dynamically changing from rain to sunny. And I don't want the half-assed solution.

In any case, its simply a mathematical equation, where the data tells the rain to gradually decrease and the track to dry in 25% 'or what ever you want' increments per lap. Its also the same with the weight of rain on the surface. At a certain point it will say, stop the increase of rain here.

It's ALWAYS a matter of mathematical equation (after all is all computing). The problem is that the good solution is often very complicated (track getting wet is fairly easy. Track getting dry in a really realistic way is way, way more difficult.).

While it may be a neat effect, most companies will not put major effort in to simulating weather. Its essentially either raining or not.

Most companies also don't bother with putting 1000 cars in their games. Nor 30 Skylines.

 

[commanderr]

Not many games have weather changing during the race. Frankly I don't remember playing any game (tarmac, circuit racer) with weather dynamically changing from rain to sunny.

Grand prix 4 for pc had it. Including dry line after a few laps.

 

[paulpg87]

there will be 60 tracks with respetctive layouts and 20 new tracks... this were wrote in the japanese post and this site and press like multiplayer told...
nowhere there's wrote only 20 tracks... i hope people thinking about only 20 tracks are joking... cuz they must go to the doctor if they are thinking this really..
also amar told more than 80 tracks...
what is 20 and 60 layouts?????
will be 60 tracks that we already knows plus 20 all news...
plus if you are thinking about all the new nascar license an wrc, where you will drive your wrc cars in the highspeed ring layouts???
close this topic...

👍

 

[Simple SIM]

there will be 60 tracks with respetctive layouts and 20 new tracks... this were wrote in the japanese post and this site and press like multiplayer told...
nowhere there's wrote only 20 tracks... i hope people thinking about only 20 tracks are joking... cuz they must go to the doctor if they are thinking this really..
also amar told more than 80 tracks...
what is 20 and 60 layouts?????
will be 60 tracks that we already knows plus 20 all news...
plus if you are thinking about all the new nascar license an wrc, where you will drive your wrc cars in the highspeed ring layouts???
close this topic...

Unfortunately your interpretations do not match actual translations. Infact there is nothing is the Japanese sentence that speaks of "new" or "old" tracks.

If you want an accurate translation just go to page 3 of this thread.

I'm hoping that there are WAAAAY more than 20+ tracks with 60+ layouts.

But based on the information we have, saying that it is 60 old courses with 20 new ones, isn't even close to what the Japanese text says.

 

[reece22345]

I honestly can't believe this is still going.... it's incredible.

 

[marchi]

Not many games have weather changing during the race. Frankly I don't remember playing any game (tarmac, circuit racer) with weather dynamically changing from rain to sunny. And I don't want the half-assed solution.

Most of the studio liverpool f1 games had it.

 

[angelacaine]

I honestly can't believe this is still going.... it's incredible.

The eternal power of optimism...

Or alternatively, the enduring power of stupidity. Could go either way really.

 

[Peterram430]

Grand prix 4 for pc had it. Including dry line after a few laps.

Grand Prix 3 had it.

 

[Dave A]

What about the drying perfect line (like in an F1 race), affected by the number of cars and their lines? That is a bit harder to do.

It is, but I'm not sure why you're bringing it up in connection to my post. My post was simply to point out that how many tracks you have has lttle bearing on how feasible changing weather conditions are. You are right, it is harder to do this and to do it right, but it's far from complicated. We are still ultimately talking about a calculation that effects the grip coefficiant over a certain line through the track. The game already recognises the racing line as the AI drive on or close to it and when you have the course guide assist on the game shows you the line. So to have a calculation tell the game that once the rain has stopped, that the racing line gets so much more grip when x happens (x being whatever PD want it to be, a car going over the racing line) and also so much change in grip coefficient when y time elapses so the track is drying naturally too. It's not rocket science, it'd be tricky to get the game to simulate all the cars having an effect on each patch of track they are driving on all the time. That would likely be simplified, but you and I wouldn't know the difference if the work around was a good one.

Not many games have weather changing during the race. Frankly I don't remember playing any game (tarmac, circuit racer) with weather dynamically changing from rain to sunny. And I don't want the half-assed solution.

Really, there's been quite a few. More of a PC game thing than console racers though. But i have seen console racers with real time variable weather.

It's ALWAYS a matter of mathematical equation (after all is all computing). The problem is that the good solution is often very complicated (track getting wet is fairly easy. Track getting dry in a really realistic way is way, way more difficult.).

A good solution can be simple, the correct solution is pretty often (if not always) much more complicated. Most games use good solutions (GT included) as games consoles can only process so much data real time. Other games use bad solutions, I don't think any game to date has the full and correct solution to much. They create a physics engine that fills in the holes, they need to.

 

[Maggot666PL]

Yep, you're right. I got carried away from the main subject, as it tends to happen around here . When you put it this way - I completely agree. No matter how complicated/simple the solution for dynamic weather might be - applying it to any number of tracks is blazingly simple.

Thanks for pointing out those F1 titles, I haven't played them (not much of an F1 fan till just a few years ago).

 

[RedBaron]

Correct simulation of all atmospheric phenomenons with accurately rendered skies, desintegration of clouds, rainstorms, marvelous sunsets and hazy mornings with light shining through, all those wet and half-wet spots will be very tough job. But who is able to do that if not PD?