The GTP Unofficial 2020 US Elections Thread

[Biggles]

Trump was aggressive, constantly interrupting Biden. The moderator had to remind him of the rules over and over again, it felt pretty much like a kindergarten. Biden seemed to lose balance initially but he handled it better towards the end of the debate. Trump appeared confident while Biden had some trouble finding the correct words.

Trump
+ Appeared confident
+ Had some strong points about the Biden’s political history
- Didn’t have any concrete message, no promises, nothing. Not even a wall.
- Ended up arguing with the moderator on a few occasions, could not accept the rules of the debate.

Biden
+ Responded pretty well to Trump’s provocations.
+ Had some strong points about Trump as a divisive leader.
- Didn’t present a lot of concrete ideas.
- Had trouble finding the right words at some occasions.

The moderator
+ Great courage.
+ Didn’t allow Trump to bully his way through the debate.
+ Asked tough questions to both candidates.
- He would have needed some kind of penalty system.

Very hard to debate someone who's a bald faced liar ... even harder when a certain portion of the country finds the lies totally acceptable, or actually believes them. That's really what's happened with Trump since the start of the GOP primaries in 2015. Objectively, HRC destroyed Trump in their debates .. & yet it made no difference to the outcome of the election. If Trump loses this election it won't be because Biden's a better debater, it will be because enough Americans have got fed up with the lies & insults.

 

[Tornado]

You know, it used to mean something when you called someone a racist.

Like when you call repeatedly call someone something as a racial slur instead of using her actual name.

Making fun of a white woman, who, for years, pretended to be a native American, for personal gain, is not racist.

Like, I know this may be a shock to grasp since I'm sure the extent you've thought of this is that if Trump said it it can't be racist, but noting the racial element of calling someone "Pocahontas" to mock her for not being Native American (regardless of the context) shouldn't be hard to understand.


And that's just what he was able to hold himself on in this debate.

 

[TexRex]

That was a super desperate and pathetic tactic for Trump to take going into the debate. For that to be your strategy... you've got nothing.

To what are you referring here? I'd have sooner gotten a prostate exam from a leper that walks away with nine fingers than watch the debate and I can't confidently pinpoint a post to which you were responding.

 

[Danoff]

To what are you referring here? I'd have sooner gotten a prostate exam from a leper that walks away with nine fingers than watch the debate and I can't confidently pinpoint a post to which you were responding.

Just the tactic of talking over everyone in the debate. I didn't watch the debate either, just going off of summaries. It's a weak strategy.

 

[polysmut]

To what are you referring here? I'd have sooner gotten a prostate exam from a leper that walks away with nine fingers than watch the debate and I can't confidently pinpoint a post to which you were responding.

You're looking for a tip off?

 

[ryzno]

Am I the only one here who watched the whole debate even though I'm not voting for either canidate?
Twas entertaining and made for a nice drinking game.

 

[McLaren]

Am I the only one here who watched the whole debate even though I'm not voting for either canidate?
Twas entertaining and made for a nice drinking game.

Depending on how relaxed the rules were, you had to have been completely plastered by the midway point.

 

[Jezza819]

I'm 55 years old now and I've never watched any sort of political debate.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Am I the only one here who watched the whole debate even though I'm not voting for either canidate?
Twas entertaining and made for a nice drinking game.

I watched most of it or more than half. Caught a minute at first then came back a few minutes later. I skimmed the beginning. I wasn't planning on watching but it was somewhat entertaining.

 

[huskeR32]

@huskeR32

Screw your cancel culture. that doesn't work any more.

Got anything new?

My cancel culture? What am I trying to cancel?

Hey @Chrunch Houston, I'm still waiting for an answer to this.

I honestly have no idea what you think I'm trying to "cancel." You made a claim that was demonstrably false, and I showed why. So I guess I was trying to cancel your habit of posting false statements?

 

[Chrunch Houston]

Hey @Chrunch Houston, I'm still waiting for an answer to this.

Sorry, I have a job.

I was talking about your quotes from Gavin Mcinnes when I mentioned the proud boys.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Sorry, I have a job.

 

[huskeR32]

Sorry, I have a job.

Fair enough, and apologies for my impatience. Working from home may have clouded my perspective a bit.

I was talking about your quotes from Gavin Mcinnes when I mentioned the proud boys

Yes, I know. My question remains; what is it that I’m trying to “cancel?”

 

[Biggles]

Making fun of a white woman, who, for years, pretended to be a native American, for personal gain, is not racist.

Trump is so loathsomely self-obssessed that a ceremony honouring WWII military veterans has to take a backseat to his petty & stunningly inappropriate personal insult of a political opponent.

Families of Navajo Code Talkers decry Trump’s use of ‘Pocahontas’

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/families-of-navajo-code-talkers-decry-trumps-use-of-pocahontas

 

[Chrunch Houston]

Fair enough, and apologies for my impatience. Working from home may have clouded my perspective a bit.




Yes, I know. My question remains; what is it that I’m trying to “cancel?”

The Proud Boys. I said I didn't think they were a racist group, then you posted the Gavin quotes apparently trying to prove they were a racist group.

 

[ryzno]

Depending on how relaxed the rules were, you had to have been completely plastered by the midway point.

We were already lit by the time of the debate. We were doing sips of beer... Rather lame...I know... but fun none the less.

 

[huskeR32]

The Proud Boys. I said I didn't think they were a racist group, then you posted the Gavin quotes apparently trying to prove they were a racist group.

Are you a member of the Proud Boys? Unless you are, I don’t see how responding to you on a forum equates in any way to me trying to cancel them.

Your implications that I’m manufacturing something here also baffles me. Gavin said what Gavin said. Me passing that information along doesn’t somehow mean that I caused him to say those things.

 

[McLaren]

The Proud Boys. I said I didn't think they were a racist group, then you posted the Gavin quotes apparently trying to prove they were a racist group.

When the founder & leader is openly saying racist (among sexist, transphobic, & xenophobic) things, it uh, comes across that the group is likely racist as well else they wouldn't be following a person saying such things.

It's already well documented that it wasn't until Charlottesville than McInnes started trying to put distance between the Proud Boys & the alt-right. Of course, he would quickly piss that short lived effort away by welcoming such fine men into his group:

Leader of the Proud Boy's "tactical defense arm".

Around the same time, Proud Boys member Kyle Chapman announced he was forming a new “tactical defense arm” of the Proud Boys — with McInnes’ “full approval” — called the Fraternal Order of Alt-Knights (FOAK). The paramilitary wing positions itself as a defensive organization formed to protect right-wing activists at political demonstrations. Chapman, who has an extensive criminal history, first gained renown within the alt-right when he was photographed hitting a counter-protestor over the head with a stick at a March 4, 2017, pro-Trump rally in Berkeley, California.

Chapman's second in command.

Like some former members of the Proud Boys, Invictus eventually left the group for more hard-core parts of the white nationalist movement. Two months after the interview, Invictus severed his ties with FOAK and, by implication, the Proud Boys, explaining in a Facebook video that he was frustrated with Chapman’s lack of professionalism. He has since focused on strengthening his relationship with the alt-right, becoming a board member for Kyle Bristow’s white nationalist legal outfit, Foundation for the Marketplace of Ideas.

The Indiana state rep. for the group.

The turn toward violence — and the blurring borders between ‘alt-lite’ and ‘alt-right’ — is typified by Brien James, the state representative for the Indiana Proud Boys and a member of FOAK. James gained his racist skinhead credentials in the Outlaw Hammerskins and the Hoosier State Skinheads before becoming one of the founding members of the Vinlanders Social Club (VSC), a racist gang known for its extreme violence. Since its creation in 2003, the VSC has been linked to at least nine murders nationwide. James once bragged that his Joint Terrorism Task Force file was “a mile long,” and allegedly nearly beat a man to death for refusing to Seig Heil at a party.

The group's lawyer, claiming the group isn't racist, but has extremism dating back to his college days.

Van Dyke's penchant for violence appears on his Twitter page, where in 2014 he made death threats against another user. Alongside a picture of a noose, he wrote, “Look good and hard at this picture you ******* ******. It’s where I am going to put your neck.” “Your kiddies are quite a nuisance,” he wrote to another,

For a group you don't think is racist, Gavin sure had a knack for attracting them, promoting them, and having them on his show to discuss their beliefs. The group literally comes across as a stepping stone to "hard core" white nationalist groups.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

Are you a member of the Proud Boys?

No, but I don't see how that makes any difference at all.

Unless you are, I don’t see how responding to you on a forum equates in any way to me trying to cancel them.

He said what he said, and you posted what you posted, with absolutely no intent. None. Not an iota of ill will about the group. None. Just FYI, huh?

For a group you don't think is racist, Gavin sure had a knack for attracting them, promoting them, and having them on his show to discuss their beliefs. The group literally comes across as a stepping stone to "hard core" white nationalist groups.

You know the leader of that group is not white, right?

 

[McLaren]

You know the leader of that group is not white, right?

That changes absolutely nothing about the group's history and repeated interaction with other white nationalist groups. Gavin only stepped down to spare others at the advice of his lawyers.

McInnes said that his lawyers had advised him that quitting might help the nine members being prosecuted for the incidents in October. During the announcement he defended the group, attacked the reporting about it, said white nationalists don't exist, and at times he said things that made it appear he was not quitting, such as "this is 100% a legal gesture, and it is 100% about alleviating sentencing", and said it was a "stepping down gesture, in quotation marks"

And the current leader shouldn't even be there by Gavin's own statements.

Although McInnes had earlier said that any Proud Boy member who was known to have attended the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia was kicked out of the organization, the new chairman Enrique Tarrio admitted to having attended the event, but "he had misgivings about the torchlight march and did not participate in it"

The group has remained attached to white nationalist controversy well beyond Gavin's "stepping down" 2 years ago, and he has been seen still attending Proud Boys rallies.

 

[huskeR32]

No, but I don't see how that makes any difference at all.

It would seem to be quite relevant given your claim that I'm attempting to "cancel" them by speaking to you. If you're not a member of the group, then how can my interacting with you be seen as trying to do anything at all to them?

He said what he said, and you posted what you posted, with absolutely no intent. None.

As I quite clearly stated already, I posted it in response to your claim that the group isn't racist. I think the words of the founder strongly suggest otherwise. My intent was to show that you were wrong. Nothing more, nothing less.

Did you forget that you made that statement? You now seem to be implying that I just posted his quotes apropos of nothing. I should think that when I led the post off by quoting you, it made it quite clear what I was doing.

Not an iota of ill will about the group. None. Just FYI, huh?

I suppose that I have some ill will towards them; I do for most bigots. I still don't see how that means I'm trying to cancel them, as you've yet to lay out any explanation for how that could possibly come about from you and I talking on a forum.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

That changes absolutely nothing about the group's history and repeated interaction with other white nationalist groups. Gavin only stepped down to spare others at the advice of his lawyers.


And the current leader shouldn't even be there by Gavin's own statements.


The group has remained attached to white nationalist controversy well beyond Gavin's "stepping down" 2 years ago, and he has been seen still attending Proud Boys rallies.

Who cares? I don't care. I am not defending them, I even called them thugs.

I suppose that I have some ill will towards them; I do for most bigots.

They may be bigots, but they aren't racists.

Proud Boys website:
Proud Boys‘ values center on the following tenets:

Minimal Government
Maximum Freedom
Anti-Political Correctness
Anti-Drug War
Closed Borders
Anti-Racial Guilt
Anti-Racism
Pro-Free Speech (1st Amendment)
Pro-Gun Rights (2nd Amendment)
Glorifying the Entrepreneur
Venerating the Housewife
Reinstating a Spirit of Western Chauvinism

Though these are our central tenets, all that is required to become a Proud Boy is that a man declare he is “a Western chauvinist who refuses to apologize for creating the modern world.” We do not discriminate based upon race or sexual orientation/preference. We are not an “ism”, “ist”, or “phobic” that fits the Left’s narrative. We truly believe that the West Is The Best and welcome those who believe in the same tenets as us.

 

[UKMikey]

It's complicated and I guess you don't have to be white to hate immigrants, women and the left. Enrique Tarrio's far-right views appear to have been formed by his parents' experiences under Castro, for example.

Still, sticking up for these assholes' reputation is kind of a weird hill to die on and I can only put it down to Trumpism, man. They may or may not be racists but they don’t seem to mind associating with the worst elements of the far-right.

If Antifa showed as open support for Biden as the Proud Boys appear to be doing for the tangerine Twitter addict, maybe the righties would have more of a case in trying to link them to Sleepy Joe.

I'm still not sure how criticism of fascist thugs on a closed videogame forum has anything to do with "cancel culture", though.

 

[huskeR32]

They may be bigots, but they aren't racists.

It’s not worth pursuing that any further. However, I’ve still no idea how any of this equated to “cancel culture.”

 

[McLaren]

I am not defending them

they aren't racists.

Listing what's on their website doesn't do them or your reasoning that they're not racists any favors. These points below:

Anti-Political Correctness
Closed Borders
Anti-Racial Guilt
Reinstating a Spirit of Western Chauvinism
West Is The Best

Are founded on a multitude of beliefs that stem from isms & phobias in their group. Closed Borders is not founded on sound reasoning, it's founded on the xenophobic belief that Muslims want to come and rape women & they love displaying Europe as proof of this.

Those last 2 points are not hard to decipher, either. They want things to stay the way they are, the way that conveniently means white people are not impeded by any change that affects their lives. Diversity training? Makes white people uncomfortable, do away with it. Making comments that are offensive to others? Allowed b/c otherwise, it means censoring white people.

 

[mustafur]

Modern repackaged White nationalism.

The more you dig into it, the more White nationalist talking points are used.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

Listing what's on their website doesn't do them or your reasoning that they're not racists any favors. These points below:


Are founded on a multitude of beliefs that stem from isms & phobias in their group. Closed Borders is not founded on sound reasoning, it's founded on the xenophobic belief that Muslims want to come and rape women & they love displaying Europe as proof of this.

Those last 2 points are not hard to decipher, either. They want things to stay the way they are, the way that conveniently means white people are not impeded by any change that affects their lives. Diversity training? Makes white people uncomfortable, do away with it. Making comments that are offensive to others? Allowed b/c otherwise, it means censoring white people.

I still don't care.

 

[McLaren]

I still don't care.

Not a better definition of Trumpism.

 

[UKMikey]

Not a better definition of Trumpism.

Screw your cancel culture, hitting him with facts, and stuff.

 

[Tornado]

I still don't care.

Well, yeah, that's always been pretty evident.