The GTP Unofficial 2020 US Elections Thread

[Ze Elephant]

That's what "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" means.

 

[Keef]

And that's staggering.

You ever had a deep conversation with an American conservative? Unfortunately, this is not staggering. It's actually quite common. There are millions of Americans who would absolutely, wholeheartedly agree with that "wild west sheriff" style of law enforcement. At the same time, they willfully admit to ignoring laws they don't like and skirting around the edges as often as possible. These people believe in law, but not the process, and do not believe that either of them apply to themselves.

 

[Joey D]

I voted today. It was a tough decision between Jorgensen and Kanye West, but ultimately Jorgensen won out. Also voted for Dr. Daniel Cottam for Utah's governor too. While I know they both don't have a snowball's chance in hell at winning, I think I'm going to sleep pretty soundly tonight knowing I voted with my conscience instead of voting for the lesser of two evils.

The process was smooth too. Filled out my ballot at home and then drove to the Holladay City Hall and dropped it off. They had a drive-up ballot box that actually had a police officer standing guard at it. I can't imagine anyone would be trying to tamper with a ballot box that was literally next to the police station and quite clearly had a security camera pointed at it, but I'm guessing they had trouble. I actually had to wait in a line too, which was odd. There were at least 10 cars there all dropping off their ballots.

No matter who those people voted for, I'm just glad they are voting. The more people that actually vote, the greater the chance that the person who wins will represent more of the population.

 

[Biggles]

I voted today. It was a tough decision between Jorgensen and Kanye West, but ultimately Jorgensen won out. Also voted for Dr. Daniel Cottam for Utah's governor too. While I know they both don't have a snowball's chance in hell at winning, I think I'm going to sleep pretty soundly tonight knowing I voted with my conscience instead of voting for the lesser of two evils.

The process was smooth too. Filled out my ballot at home and then drove to the Holladay City Hall and dropped it off. They had a drive-up ballot box that actually had a police officer standing guard at it. I can't imagine anyone would be trying to tamper with a ballot box that was literally next to the police station and quite clearly had a security camera pointed at it, but I'm guessing they had trouble. I actually had to wait in a line too, which was odd. There were at least 10 cars there all dropping off their ballots.

No matter who those people voted for, I'm just glad they are voting. The more people that actually vote, the greater the chance that the person who wins will represent more of the population.

Even though you know that Kanye is going to sweep the Utah vote ... you still voted for your guy. Good for you!

I have no idea what you think "voting your conscience" really means. Voting for Jorgensen in Utah may be a perfectly reasonable choice, but if, hypothetically, you lived in a swing state & your single vote decided the election for Donald Trump, do you really believe that your vote for Jorgensen would be a wise contribution to the future of your country?

 

[Northstar]

hypothetically, you lived in a swing state & your single vote decided the election for Donald Trump, do you really believe that your vote for Jorgensen would be a wise contribution to the future of your country?

Why does it seem like this conversation happens every other week?

Picking "the lesser of two evils" is exactly what got us into this mess. By voting 3rd party you are saying the current way isn't working so let's try something that's actually different instead of one form of aggressive cancer over another.

Basically, a Vote for Biden or Trump is a vote for the status quo.

 

[FuriousDemon]

It’s cool to have a privilege to vote for the “edgy” candidate. That’s what my family did last time and think of doing again. Then we get who we got last time. Brilliant.

I honestly feel that we’ll have a repeat of 2016. I looked at how the states looked back then. Don’t see it changing much. FL, OH, and PA are going for Twitter man. MI is going to have enough edgy voters to have the same outcome as well and that’s about enough.

 

[Dennisch]

You would think that by now that regulars of GTP would understand why voting 3rd party is the way to go in the USA.

 

[FerrariF1GT]

I have no idea what you think "voting your conscience" really means. Voting for Jorgensen in Utah may be a perfectly reasonable choice, but if, hypothetically, you lived in a swing state & your single vote decided the election for Donald Trump, do you really believe that your vote for Jorgensen would be a wise contribution to the future of your country?

’Voting your conscience’ is precisely how everyone should vote, in theory at least. If more people actually did their homework and considered their options beyond a donkey and an elephant, the race would be more competitive and interesting.

I’m happy I did: I was going to vote for Biden for reasons that boiled down to him not being Trump. But when I looked up Jorgensen and her positions, I found myself agreeing with her platform quite a bit. I don’t agree with her entire platform, but I voted for her anyway when I filled out my absentee ballot last week because her views corresponded to mine the closest. Also because I want a third party to compete in the system and I wanted to contribute to the 5% popular vote needed for the Libertarians to receive federal funding next cycle.

But when I think about it, I feel like the way our elections are set up make it so that only two parties can compete. The winner-take-all electoral college and the fact that a candidate needs a plurality of the electorate to win don’t help, never mind it would take a constitutional amendment to get rid of that process. But I regress: it’s still VERY worth it to vote third-party if you ‘vote your conscience.’

 

[Danoff]

Basically, a Vote for Biden or Trump is a vote for the status quo.

That has been the case historically (vote for one of the two candidates is a vote for status quo). It is not the case this year. If you don't see a huge difference between Trump and Biden... I honestly do not know how to get that through at this point.

If you're saying that a vote for biden is a vote for the status quo of 2012... GREAT!

Jesus tapdancing christ if we could get back the government we had in 2012 it would a miracle. An absolute miracle. I voted 3rd party in 2012. I stand by that. But I would take that status quo over the present administration all day long.

 

[Joey D]

I have no idea what you think "voting your conscience" really means. Voting for Jorgensen in Utah may be a perfectly reasonable choice, but if, hypothetically, you lived in a swing state & your single vote decided the election for Donald Trump, do you really believe that your vote for Jorgensen would be a wise contribution to the future of your country?

Yes, I do believe it would be a wise contribution to the country. For a third party to viable, it needs votes, and the only way to get those votes is to have voters, well, vote. Voting for a third party candidate this time around isn't exactly voting for this election, it's voting for the next. A third party needs 5% of the vote to have access to funding during the next election cycle.

So it's perfectly reasonable to me to help contribute to that 5% so we can inch towards it not being a two party system.

It’s cool to have a privilege to vote for the “edgy” candidate. That’s what my family did last time and think of doing again. Then we get who we got last time. Brilliant.

I honestly feel that we’ll have a repeat of 2016. I looked at how the states looked back then. Don’t see it changing much. FL, OH, and PA are going for Twitter man. MI is going to have enough edgy voters to have the same outcome as well and that’s about enough.

Third parties didn't decide the election late time. They didn't even make a noticeable dent in the outcome of the election.

And I lived in Michigan for nearly 30 years and voted it in for 12 of those years. While Michigan is a swing state, it comes down to how many people actually vote, especially in the Detroit, Lansing, and Grand Rapids metro areas. The closer you get to the cities, the bluer the vote gets and since they're the major population centers, that's what decided the election. The problem is people just don't vote.

If Michiganders voted in higher numbers, the state would almost certainly be blue and not be much of a swing state.

 

[Danoff]

a wise contribution to the future of your country?

It's not about influencing the results, it's not about "contributing". Half the time politicians don't do what you voted for anyway.

Voting is speech. It's not about the future of your country, it's about saying something right now. It is your opportunity to stand up and be counted for what represents you.

The problem with voting 3rd party this year, is that there is an absolute world of difference between the two major candidates. Voting was never about finding a perfect fit, or even the closest fit. Otherwise you should just write yourself in every time. It's about what you are saying, and I think that the only way a 3rd party vote can really be interpreted (ultimately) this year is that you don't care as much about the difference between Biden and Trump as you do about other issues.

But I do! I very much care about the difference between Biden and Trump because it is enormous. I can't think of any "issues" I care about more than preserving the basic structure of government, the peaceful transition of power, respect for the constitution, respect for the integrity of the executive, and a candidate that will place the needs of the country above their own.

I don't care more about taxes, socialism, healthcare, abortion, capital punishment, drugs... none of it is meaningful if we can't have those basic elements in place. There is no "political" issue in my mind that rises to the level of "not tearing apart the country".

 

[Joey D]

The problem with voting 3rd party this year, is that there is an absolute world of difference between the two major candidates. Voting was never about finding a perfect fit, or even the closest fit. Otherwise you should just write yourself in every time. It's about what you are saying, and I think that the only way a 3rd party vote can really be interpreted (ultimately) this year is that you don't care as much about the difference between Biden and Trump as you do about other issues.

I actually did think pretty hard about voting for Biden (even though I joked about Kanye). I just couldn't do it. I know he's better than Trump and I want to see Trump gone, but looking long term we need to break the cycle of the two-party system. This year a third-party has a legitimate chance at breaking the 5% barrier since so many people dislike Trump, but can't bring themselves to vote for Biden.

If I didn't live in Utah, I might've been able to reach a different conclusion. My vote doesn't mean anything here since the state will go red no matter what.

 

[Danoff]

I actually did think pretty hard about voting for Biden (even though I joked about Kanye). I just couldn't do it. I know he's better than Trump and I want to see Trump gone, but looking long term we need to break the cycle of the two-party system. This year a third-party has a legitimate chance at breaking the 5% barrier since so many people dislike Trump, but can't bring themselves to vote for Biden.

We'd need to actually survive 4 more years of trump to try to play a long game. Getting a 3rd party over 5% is not more important to me this year than ousting authoritarianism. Nothing is. And honestly I don't see how anything can be. At this point I'd vote for Sanders if it looked like Sanders could beat Trump... and I hate Sanders.

Getting a 3rd party up to those levels is important to me too. Not as important as some issues, but important. It pales in comparison to authoritarianism.

The vote this year is between authoritarianism and various forms of democratic republic.

If I didn't live in Utah, I might've been able to reach a different conclusion. My vote doesn't mean anything here since the state will go red no matter what.

I get it. You felt like the 3rd party speech was more important than the Biden/Trump speech given that electoral votes were going to go for Trump. I'd still have voted Biden in Utah, because I'd want my voting speech to stack up 1 more count, even just nationally, in favor of not-authoritarianism.

I think that's the only way you can interpret a Biden vote this year. Not-authoritarianism. A third party vote says something else... "not-authoritarianism but also some other issues are more important than the difference between Biden's not-authoritarianism and authoritarianism".

 

[Biggles]

Yes, I do believe it would be a wise contribution to the country. For a third party to viable, it needs votes, and the only way to get those votes is to have voters, well, vote. Voting for a third party candidate this time around isn't exactly voting for this election, it's voting for the next. A third party needs 5% of the vote to have access to funding during the next election cycle.

So it's perfectly reasonable to me to help contribute to that 5% so we can inch towards it not being a two party system.



Third parties didn't decide the election late time. They didn't even make a noticeable dent in the outcome of the election.

And I lived in Michigan for nearly 30 years and voted it in for 12 of those years. While Michigan is a swing state, it comes down to how many people actually vote, especially in the Detroit, Lansing, and Grand Rapids metro areas. The closer you get to the cities, the bluer the vote gets and since they're the major population centers, that's what decided the election. The problem is people just don't vote.

If Michiganders voted in higher numbers, the state would almost certainly be blue and not be much of a swing state.

It's interesting to me that in the last 15 years Danoff has gone from being ideologically rigid to more flexible & practical-minded ... while you have gone in the opposite direction. I do find myself wondering if that has something to do with where you both live?

From a practical point of view how you voted in Utah will have no real bearing on the outcome, so I certainly support your right to vote 3rd party ... but I agree with Danoff's characterization of the situation. Under the current circumstances I don't see any hope for a 3rd party to make any kind of electoral breakthrough. In fact, what seems like the best prospect for that, would be for the GOP to be so thoroughly routed in this election that they throw out Trump & Trumpism & create space for more libertarian ideas to be incorporated into the Republican platform ... or for a breakaway party that consolidates support from Libertarians & libertarian-minded people within the GOP.

Either way, it's going to take a while to get back from the chaos & division that Trump has created.

 

[FuriousDemon]

I actually did think pretty hard about voting for Biden (even though I joked about Kanye). I just couldn't do it. I know he's better than Trump and I want to see Trump gone, but looking long term we need to break the cycle of the two-party system. This year a third-party has a legitimate chance at breaking the 5% barrier since so many people dislike Trump, but can't bring themselves to vote for Biden.

If I didn't live in Utah, I might've been able to reach a different conclusion. My vote doesn't mean anything here since the state will go red no matter what.

Looking at 2016, is that correct that if everyone in Utah who voted for 3rd party would have voted for Hillary she would have won the state? If so, your vote could have meant something.

 

[Biggles]

You would think that by now that regulars of GTP would understand why voting 3rd party is the way to go in the USA.

As a regular of GTPlanet what I have noticed is that you seem to think that "orange man bad" is a witty & clever rejoinder. This is coming from someone who lives in a (tiny) country which is possibly the most politically moderate, anti-authoritarian, societally cohesive country on the planet ... & which has had a system of proportional representation for over 100 years. That is not the situation in the United States.

 

[eran0004]

Looking at 2016, is that correct that if everyone in Utah who voted for 3rd party would have voted for Hillary she would have won the state? If so, your vote could have meant something.

Voting 3rd party does mean something though. It may not have any effect on who will win the election but neither does all of the Republican votes in Democratic states and vice versa. It’s a flaw of the “winner takes it all” system.

All the voter has to do is consider which option they like the best and vote for that option. If Trump wins it’s not because of the third party voters, it’s because Trump had more support than Biden.

 

[Dennisch]

As a regular of GTPlanet what I have noticed is that you seem to think that "orange man bad" is a witty & clever rejoinder.

You've noticed wrong then, because I think most of current date Washington is about as **** as politicians can be. Not just the cheeto in charge.

 

[Blitz24]

You've noticed wrong then, because I think most of current date Washington is about as **** as politicians can be. Not just the cheeto in charge.

I can't speak for times before I was born, but over the last 30 or so years there hasn't been a greater partisan divide. Both parties are at fault.

 

[GranTurNismo]

I voted for Howie Hawkins, the Green Party candidate. This is the first time I have voted in any election, as I am finally old enough to do so. I will admit that GTP has definitely changed my perspective on third-party candidates to a certain degree. Though obviously Hawkins has zero chance at winning, and I still believe that third party candidates in the future can never win a presidential election in the future unless significant changes to the process are made (overwhelming evidence suggests that third party candidates are deliberately set up to fail in the US), I can understand the benefits of voting third party, and the only way that third party candidates and their values could ever gain more recognition is by simply voting for them, even if you know they cannot win.

That being said, I was seriously torn between whether to vote for Hawkins or Biden this election. While it's self evident that everyone on the Left hates Biden, I've heard many good arguments for voting Biden or against him (whether that means not voting at all, or choosing a third party candidate). Though I originally planned on voting for Biden, despite my strong disdain for him, ultimately, I decided to reject the "lesser of two evils argument" and vote for the candidate who most suits my values instead. And without question, that is Howie Hawkins; as a Bernie Sanders supporter, Howie Hawkins' platform is very similar to that of Bernie's; he supports the Green New Deal, universal healthcare, tuition-free public college, legalization of marijuana/decriminalization of drugs, is anti-Israel, vows to get big money out of politics, workers' rights/Economic Bill of Rights, and is massively against our current foreign policy, wanting to end the wars and significantly cut our military budget.

I will add this, though. Regardless of the outcome of the election, the American people are going to be screwed. We will be screwed under Biden, and even more screwed under Trump. While there is a 99% chance of Biden winning at this point, and without question Biden is the better alternative to Trump, he's not going to do anything meaningful to improve the quality of life for the average American. It's just going to be business as usual under him, which means income inequality continues to grow, our government will still be bought by the same special interests and the people will not be represented, the same wars and drone strikes will continue on, and there will still be millions of Americans too poor to afford their health needs, college, paying their rent on time, or even putting somewhat healthy food on the table. It's especially telling that he has no healthcare plan other than "restoring the ACA" and has rolled back on many of the climate plans him and Bernie conceded on. The fact that he has at least eight sexual misconduct allegations, with at least one of them being forcible rape, only makes me revile him more. At this point, the only argument for him (and frankly, it's not a bad one) is that he simply isn't Trump; he's not a fascist, he's not bigoted, and he believes in climate change and that masks work. So no, I'm not going to follow in the footsteps as many of us "Bernie Bros" are being told to and "settle for Biden"; my policy positions (as well as my moral compass) are simply too far away from his, and being that another candidate nearly exactly represents my visions for America, I'm going to vote for that candidate, regardless of his ability to win.

 

[FuriousDemon]

We had this 99% chance of Clinton winning in 2016 according to polls and then we got what we got. Of course, this year it is a little bit different, but voter suppression seems to be worse as well and with COVID that’s easier to do. Most democrats believe COVID is a concern, so there is a higher chance of lower than expected turnout. Trump supporters don’t think COVID is much to be concerned about, so I’m sure they will show up at the polls at the same levels as usual.

All I’m saying, voting for third party is not going to do much more than increase chances of Trump winning, seeing as most of these people dislike him more than Biden and would have voted against him if forced to pick between the two. I too wish Bernie was a choice, but I didn’t have any illusions of him winning the nomination. Sometimes you gotta cut your losses. I think 4 years of chaos is enough.

 

[GranTurNismo]

All I’m saying, voting for third party is not going to do much more than increase chances of Trump winning, seeing as most of these people dislike him more than Biden and would have voted against him if forced to pick between the two. I too wish Bernie was a choice, but I didn’t have any illusions of him winning the nomination. Sometimes you gotta cut your losses. I think 4 years of chaos is enough.

I live in New Jersey. Biden is going to win here by significant margin no matter what happens. That's just the Electoral College for you.

 

[Blitz24]

I live in New Jersey. Biden is going to win here by significant margin no matter what happens. That's just the Electoral College for you.

New Jersey has been solid blue since the late 1980s. That's literally the only reason that I would even be able to justify not voting because it won't matter who I choose. That being said, I still plan to vote.

 

[Danoff]

I will add this, though. Regardless of the outcome of the election, the American people are going to be screwed. We will be screwed under Biden, and even more screwed under Trump.

The fact that you're trying to equate these in any respect tells me that something is wildly misunderstood here. You go on to talk about all that stuff that I just explained doesn't matter if the US goes full authoritarian. Somehow... still... I feel that the depth of the threat posed by a 2nd Trump administration is not understood.

I don't know how that's possible... but somehow it is. I really am not sure this nation survives a 2nd Trump administration, I mean philosophically, not in name. I'm not entirely sure it has survived the 1st.

 

[Famine]

The fact that you're trying to equate these in any respect tells me that something is wildly misunderstood here. You go on to talk about all that stuff that I just explained doesn't matter if the US goes full authoritarian. Somehow... still... I feel that the depth of the threat posed by a 2nd Trump administration is not understood.

I don't know how that's possible... but somehow it is. I really am not sure this nation survives a 2nd Trump administration, I mean philosophically, not in name. I'm not entirely sure it has survived the 1st.

Looking in from the outside, it looks like Joe Biden has some ideas that people don't particularly like and that might dissuade them...


... but Jesus tap-dancing Christ, Trump has literally just **** on the Fifth Amendment, and spent a rally pandering to a crowd calling "lock her up" to a crowd regarding a politician that has recently been subject to a direct plot of kidnap and murder. That's the last two days. In the last four years he's broken countless laws (including a couple of Amendments), promoted idiotic conspiracy theories and insane terrorist and quasi-terrorist organisations, shovelled friends and relatives into positions of power - I mean, @Danoff had more. Much more.

The USA is the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, and the role of the President is to protect it from over-reach by the other two branches of government. Trump doesn't give a **** about either of them, and he's trying to pack one of the other branches with people who also don't give a **** about them. And he has repeatedly suggested he will not leave the office even if voted out.

In four years' time, Biden might not have delivered the America you want, but at least there'll be an America for you to vote about. It's incredibly easy to justify voting Biden in any state where it may affect the outcome - because it's basically America or not America.


But definitely vote third party in any safe (+10% or more) state, just for the sake of having someone else to vote for in 2028.

 

[GranTurNismo]

The fact that you're trying to equate these in any respect tells me that something is wildly misunderstood here.

I honestly have no idea what exactly you're referring to. Are you suggesting that the US won't be screwed under Biden? So yes, there is something misunderstood here.

If there's anyone to agree with the notion we can't have four more years under Trump, it's me. Trump is without a doubt an authoritarian and will do anything in his power to subvert democracy so that himself and reactionary conservatives continue to win elections and decide what rights Americans don't get to have. After all, that's ripped from the first page out of the Fascism playbook. You seem to act as if I didn't already know how authoritarian and fascistic and dangerous Trump really is.

But... it's just not statistically likely that Trump will win or can win by this point. I check the 538 polls daily. Right now, there's an 87% likelihood of a Biden electoral college victory, which is the highest it's been. He's ahead 16 points nationally, has every swing state easily, and slightly leading in some states that aren't even considered swing, like Texas, North Carolina, and Georgia. I know I've emphasized this before, but this is not like the 2016 election. Hillary's lead was never even close to what Biden's lead is. At this time four years ago, her lead over Trump was over 3.5x less than Biden's at 4.5%. Besides, people were much more open to Trump then than they are now. Yes, you get about 30-35% of Groundfishes and Crunch Houstons who support Trump no matter what happens, but most of the Rust Belt voters and centrists who gave Trump a chance because of "the economy" are switching towards Biden. Bottom line is, Trump dug himself in much too deep of a whole to turn himself around, and his lacklustre debate/town hall performances as well as confirming there won't be a stimulus package only confirms this. It's simply too late.

The fact that there is virtually a 99% likelihood of a Biden electoral college win actually only strengthens my case for Hawkins. Because he is leading by such large margins, by not voting for Biden, I don't feel as if I'm increasing the chances Trump will win. Also, as I said, I'm in New Jersey. In solidly partisan states, it doesn't and has never mattered how people vote on an individual basis. We will always vote for our dominant party in every election. In only about 8-10 swing states will it genuinely matter who you vote for. That's just how the broken system called the electoral college works.

Also, even if Biden does win the electoral vote, even by a very large margin, that could all be undone now that the courts will most likely be 6-3. There is certainly a likelihood of a repeat of the Bush v. Gore debacle 20 years ago and we need to be cognizant of that. But whether or not I vote for Biden or a third party candidate has nothing at all to do with that.

@Famine and that's exactly a reason why I'm voting third party and not Biden. NJ is a solidly democratic state and will likely always be that way. If I live in Ohio or Iowa or even Texas, I do think I would vote for Biden.

 

[Danoff]

Are you suggesting that the US won't be screwed under Biden?

By comparison? No, it won't.

If there's anyone to agree with the notion we can't have four more years under Trump, it's me. Trump is without a doubt an authoritarian and will do anything in his power to subvert democracy so that himself and reactionary conservatives continue to win elections and decide what rights Americans don't get to have. After all, that's ripped from the first page out of the Fascism playbook.

But... it's just not statistically likely that Trump will win or can win by this point. I check the 538 polls daily. Right now, there's an 87% likelihood of a Biden electoral college victory, which is the highest it's been. He's ahead 16 points nationally, has every swing state easily, and slightly leading in some states that aren't even considered swing, like Texas, North Carolina, and Georgia. I know I've emphasized this before, but this is not like the 2016 election. Hillary's lead was never even close to what Biden's lead is. At this time four years ago, her lead over Trump was over 3.5x less than Biden's at 4.5%. Besides, people were much more open to Trump then than they are now. Yes, you get about 30-35% of Groundfishes and Crunch Houstons who support Trump no matter what happens, but most of the Rust Belt voters and centrists who gave Trump a chance because of "the economy" are switching towards Biden. Bottom line is, Trump dug himself in much too deep of a whole to turn himself around, and his lacklustre debate/town hall performances as well as confirming their won't be a stimulus package only confirms this.

The fact that there is virtually a 99% likelihood of a Biden electoral college win actually only strengthens my case for Hawkins. Because he is leading by such large margins, by not voting for Biden, I don't feel as if I'm increasing the chances Trump will win. Also, as I said, I'm in New Jersey. In solidly partisan states, it doesn't and has never mattered how people vote on an individual basis. We will always vote for our dominant party in every election. In only about 8-10 swing states will it genuinely matter who you vote for. That's just how the broken system called the electoral college works.

Also, even if Biden does win the popular vote, even by a very large margin, that could all be undone now that the courts will most likely be 6-3. There is certainly a likelihood of a repeat of the Bush v. Gore debacle 20 years ago and we need to be cognizant of that. But whether or not I vote for Biden or a third party candidate has nothing at all to do with that.

@Famine and that's exactly a reason why I'm voting third party and not Biden. NJ is a solidly democratic state and will likely always be that way. If I live in Ohio or Iowa or even Texas, I do think I would vote for Biden.

I don't see how this matters. Your 3rd party vote can't speak that clearly. You can do it here on GTPlanet, but your vote can't.

 

[Blitz24]

By comparison? No, it won't.



I don't see how this matters. Your 3rd party vote can't speak that clearly. You can do it here on GTPlanet, but your vote can't.

If enough people vote for neither Biden or Trump, it gives those parties more backing that they might be able to participate in debates or get funding.

 

[GranTurNismo]

By comparison? No, it won't.

You're right in the sense that under Biden, our democratic institutions will be safe and we won't have full-on fascism. But I was referring to the quality of life for the average American. It's just going to be the same pattern that's been occurring since Reagan; the rich get richer and the poor and middle class either get nothing, or even poorer. The costs of rent, food, insurance, and utilities will continue to rise at a faster rate than wages. The problem is, Biden, as an establishment centrist, doesn't have the wherewithal to fundamentally change any of our institutions, or hold the powerful accountable. Like Trump, he also has no plan to expand healthcare access, raise wages (he silently backed off his initial pledge of raising the minimum wage to $15 oh wait, the minimum wage shouldn't exist, right?), ensure workers rights and union power, legalize marijuana, address student debt/rising college costs, stopping our tax dollars from going to a bloated military/illegal wars/Israel & Saudi Arabia, or substantively address the root cause of poverty in both our urban and rural communities.

 

[McLaren]

If enough people vote for neither Biden or Trump, it gives those parties more backing that they might be able to participate in debates or get funding.

I agree.

And as much as I don't like us going through another election of, "Well, I'm voting for this candidate cause I hate the other one", I have to feel we put the idea of voting 3rd party aside this time. I think Danoff & Famine are correct. At least with Joe, there will be valid opportunities to vote 3rd party. Trump is getting more & more dangerous with his rhetoric at his rallies. "Lock em all up! It puts a smile on my face seeing police push protesters around! There must be retribution!" This is walk-the-line dictator talk. Every rally, he edges closer to just full out saying what he means & if he wins, who knows if he'll actually follow through or worse yet, if Barr will cross the line with him & actively try to have other government folks put into court.

If by some chance with Joe, he actually ends up creating a worse America, at least it came out of the blue than from a candidate basically advertising it himself, so we're no better off.

BTW Blitz, I'm just venting a bit, so please don't take this as directed towards you.