The Mazda Miata: Legendary or not?

[12thgear]

I think some people need to go back and read Luminis' opening post. He said nothing of the Miata being the best, most elite, or most desirable car. The bias on both sides is getting away from the original point, which I feel is about the Miata's legacy.

 

[Drewsifer3x]

Seems to be some confusion. Not liking something does not make it any less legendary.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Seems to be some confusion. Not liking something does not make it any less legendary.

👍

 

[AOS-]

I think some people need to go back and read Luminis' opening post.

The thread direction has already gone astray thanks to a few outstanding individuals.

 

[Crispy]

http://www.quiros.net/miata/miata_vs_z3.htm
"In my case, I'd rather spend the money somewhere else, and have almost as much fun with my Miata 2000 SE."

Here is another. http://www.karr-tv.com/roadcomp.htm Which basically says that the only thing better about the Miata is that its cheaper.

The thing is, you would never even hear of the Z3 if the Miata didn't exist. He even says it himself.

"The launch of the Miata triggered a renewed interest in the roadster, and we've seen a host of variations on the theme from other manufacturers, including the BMW Z3."

I don't get how hard it is for you to understand that this car is legendary for that reason, IT LAUNCHED THE ROADSTER FROM THE DEPTHS OF HELL! This is why its legendary, and your S2000's and Z3's you claim to be so much better wouldn't exist without the Miata. Don't get me wrong, the Z3 is a great car, but its not legendary like the Miata.

 

[fitftw]

The Miata should be in the 10 best cars of all time, and whoever says otherwise is plain ignorant or has unreal standards. Even Jay Leno, who has a huge assortment of vehicles, LOVES his first-gen Miata.

This thread has gone by the wayside now and should just be closed. Everyone and their mother should drive a Miata with high-performance summer tires on a twisty road in their lifetime. I guarantee the experience is more fun than your cookie-cutter daily driver and I bet you'd most likely chicken out because the level of grip and speed of corner entry is way higher than 99% of cars on the road. Feminine car my ass. People who make fun of the car have serious insecurity issues.

 

[niky]

A car has to pass more than one test. The only test that the Miata passes is that its one of the best grassroots racers. Thats it. Its not a beautiful piece of art. Its not fast. Its not luxurious. Its not ahead of its time. Im not saying it has to pass all of the tests but it has to do more than one thing.

Ironic:

The 57 Chevy is the car that set the standards for styling.
http://www.legendarycollectorcars.com/featured-vehicles/show-cars/1957-chevrolet-bel-air/

Not fast. Not a beautiful piece of art... handsome in a block-ish way, but nothing with fins and a cheese-grater grille can be called classically beautiful. Not ahead of its time. A legend? In the US, definitely... elsewhere... not really.

with frame rails, butterfly brace, rollbar, hardtop, upgraded swaybars and tires and coilovers, a 1.8L NA Miata would be just as well-suited on a track as any NC. I'd take on any non-boosted NC anytime.

Hmmm... sounds like a challenge. Still... you can do as much or more with the NC. I'm just wondering how long before we see Cosworth re-release their MZR-Duratec intake plenum and cylinder head for the MX-5...

Its all about the price tag and not about the Miata being the better car. Remove the price factor and the Z3 is simply the better CAR.

Z3 what? The only Z3 that is comprehensively better than the Miata is the Z3M. The four-cylinder is slower, heavier and duller, the six cylinder is even heavier and more nose-heavy, but at least it isn't slow. You're asking for sources? Every single motoring board in the world that has members who have taken both their MX-5 and Z3 to the track will show you people preferring the MX-5. The Z3's parts bin suspension (remember those trailing arms I talked about) made it more squirrelly to drive and less sorted. Unless you use heavy rear meats, the Z3 will sometimes oversteer when you don't want it to. The MX-5 will oversteer when you want it, and only when you want it, and is as gentle and controllable in a slide as you can imagine.

I know people who've only ever experienced going sideways in an MX-5.

Contrawise... you will not find a single review praising the Z3 over the MX-5. And your source only claims the Z3 is more fun because it has the six-pot. The four-pot is so slow that it's possible that even a Euro-spec MX-5 (1.6, 90-odd horses, gets outrun by a Corolla) could beat it in a drag-race.

 

[PureAwesomeness]

The Miata should be in the 10 best cars of all time, and whoever says otherwise is plain ignorant or has unreal standards.

This is definitely an exaggeration.

 

[Luminis]

I think some people need to go back and read Luminis' opening post. He said nothing of the Miata being the best, most elite, or most desirable car. The bias on both sides is getting away from the original point, which I feel is about the Miata's legacy.

Exactly. The point is: To appear on a list of greatest cars of all time, the car doesn't have to be the fastest, best handling, most beautiful, whatever have you.
There are other things to go by. Influence on both the car industry, car communities, popular culture and so on. For example, the F40. A stunning car to behold, but did it have much influence on the industry? No, quite the opposite. Car communities? No. A car that expensive can rarely do that. Is it the fastest? By todays standards, it for sure isn't. Back then, it was, yes, not anymore, though. Did influence pop culture? Was it desirable? Hell yes, most people will remember the F40 as the super car of their childhood.

The Miata just ticks other boxes. It influenced the automotive industry so much it isn't even funny. Did it have an impact on car communities? Damn right, it did - it even has its own spec race series.

The one thing that one has to understand here is the following:
There are cars that are legendary because of what the individual car was. Let's be honest, it wouldn't have made any difference whatsoever whether Ferrari build 50 F40s or 5000. The car is legendary for what's sitting their, on all four wheels.
The Miata isn't a legend for what the individual car is. It's because of what all the Miatas did, as a whole, as a collective, so to speak.
It kept the enthusiast's car alive, that's what it did.

If someone can't see the difference between those reasons for being a legend and/or fails to understand that both are valid, well, that's a shame.

Let me put it this way, though:
The Ford Model T surely was no stunning beauty, nor an incredible performer, but is anyone saying it's not a legend? The Miata is basically the same, albeiit on a much smaller scale.

 

[12thgear]

Z3 what? The only Z3 that is comprehensively better than the Miata is the Z3M. The four-cylinder is slower, heavier and duller, the six cylinder is even heavier and more nose-heavy, but at least it isn't slow.[/B]

Nah, the best Z3s have the fixed roof. I've come very close to talking myself into getting a Z3 or M Coupe numerous times. I love that car.

 

[fitftw]

the '98 M Coupe is a fun car in GT5

 

[Crispy]

The Miata should be in the 10 best cars of all time, and whoever says otherwise is plain ignorant or has unreal standards. Even Jay Leno, who has a huge assortment of vehicles, LOVES his first-gen Miata.

This thread has gone by the wayside now and should just be closed. Everyone and their mother should drive a Miata with high-performance summer tires on a twisty road in their lifetime. I guarantee the experience is more fun than your cookie-cutter daily driver and I bet you'd most likely chicken out because the level of grip and speed of corner entry is way higher than 99% of cars on the road. Feminine car my ass. People who make fun of the car have serious insecurity issues.

What if your daily driver IS a Miata?

 

[fitftw]

What if your daily driver IS a Miata?

Mine is 👍

 

[Crispy]

Mine is 👍

Same! 👍

 

[Eric.]

Then its not a "cookie cutter daily driver." 👍

 

[McLaren]

Any discerning buyer looking for a performance oriented vehicle needs their head checked if they consider a vehicle without a roof (reduced chassis rigidity) and lawnmower-like power to be acceptable in terms of desirability when it comes to spirited motoring.

LOL, so why is the Miata probably, the most road-coursed vehicle on earth?

The Miata should be in the 10 best cars of all time, and whoever says otherwise is plain ignorant or has unreal standards.

I'm chalking that up to pure bias than an opinion based on the car's history & traits.

 

[fitftw]

ok if the Miata isn't in the Top 10 to anyone else but me (and my Miata brethren) then when will it be in the Top 10? If they make Miatas for another 20 years, will you then accept that it's one of the best cars of all time?

I consider longevity and classic good looks and extreme lightweight to be factors that shoot it into the Top 10. What other car that started around 1989-1990 is still even around today? I couldn't care less about straight-line performance, though if you gut 200lbs out of the car and strap on a turbo for 250whp, you'll be dusting Mustangs and maybe base Corvettes. Around a track? You'll pass them in corners like they're standing still.

 

[PureAwesomeness]

extreme lightweight to be factors that shoot it into the Top 10.

I wouldn't say the Miata is popular for that reason. In fact I don't think it is that lightweight. Mazda use pretty conventional materials and construction methods in putting together the Miata. I suspect that any car of comparable size and capacity weighs roughly the same.

p.s. And who even keeps track of when cars were released?! There are plenty of cars that have been around longer than that. Doesn't necessarily make them legendary though.

 

[cuco33]

I voted no. It is almost legendary as it's quite popular in amateur racing and helped the most to bring back the roadster popularity. But legendary I don't think so. That's me though

 

[12thgear]

I voted no. It is almost legendary as it's quite popular in amateur racing and helped the most to bring back the roadster popularity. But legendary I don't think so. That's me though

Can you elaborate? A buddy of mine said "no" too, arguing that to be legendary, a car needed a mythology around it, whether it's a storied racing history or a level of performance the world never thought was possible. He called the Miata a landmark and an icon, but not exactly a legend.

 

[fitftw]

p.s. And who even keeps track of when cars were released?!

I do. The MR2, Supra, RX-7, CRX, Integra, Prelude, 3000GT, 240SX, all gone. The Miata? Still around, and always will be. That's how I know it is legendary. You just don't see it yet. According to my logic, Honda's Civic is legendary. Do you agree? Fuel-efficient, capable of big power, it was a genius car then and it's still one of the best cars in its class after all these years of the competition trying to imitate. Nobody has even tried to steal thunder from Mazda because their Miata is too damn good, it would be futile to try and dethrone it. S2000 had a chance, but they axed it, and car reviewers chose the Miata anyway.

 

[PureAwesomeness]

I do. The MR2, Supra, RX-7, CRX, Integra, Prelude, 3000GT, 240SX, all gone. The Miata? Still around, and always will be. That's how I know it is legendary. You just don't see it yet. According to my logic, Honda's Civic is legendary. Do you agree? Fuel-efficient, capable of big power, it was a genius car then and it's still one of the best cars in its class after all these years of the competition trying to imitate. Nobody has even tried to steal thunder from Mazda because their Miata is too damn good, it would be futile to try and dethrone it. S2000 had a chance, but they axed it, and car reviewers chose the Miata anyway.

The Civic is no longer available in Japan. None of the cars you listed (to my knowledge) were released at the same time as the Miata, most were much earlier.

I don't doubt that the Miata is a good car and Mazda really did strike gold with the formula but it still doesn't qualify as a legend in my books. In its original form it's a cute, 1600cc Japanese two-seater; that's all. Does nothing for me. I don't lust after one.

I think the only reason no other car company has tried to dethrone it is it just wouldn't be worth their while. Mazda pretty much has the niche sewn up. There's only so much you can do within the Miata's parameters (two seats, RWD, small engine, soft top). And as far as design goes, let's not forget that the Miata owes more than a little to Lotus for its good looks.

 

[Luminis]

ok if the Miata isn't in the Top 10 to anyone else but me (and my Miata brethren) then when will it be in the Top 10? If they make Miatas for another 20 years, will you then accept that it's one of the best cars of all time?

Well, in my opinion, it should already appear on a Top 10 list. Well, top 20 for sure. At least if we're talking about something that's even remotely objective.

I probably wouldn't put it into my personal top ten list, maybe into my personal top twenty, but I think it's hard to deny the relevance and the impact it had on basically all of the current cars in its segment.
Given that it's probably the best value you can buy if you want a sports car and has been that way for the last two decades... Well, that's enough to get it into the top spots of most "best cars" list.

I don't lust after one.

That's probably the problem a few people in this thread seem to have: If you don't like it, it's not good enough to qualify as a legend. Not saying that there's anything wrong with disliking it on a personal level (as I said, I wouldn't put it into my personal top 10), but it's hard to deny that the car is the real deal, if you're looking at objectively.

 

[homeforsummer]

The Fiero and MR2 were ahead of the Miata and ahead of their time. So far ahead that they werent ready to be embraced by most people. Only after they were gone did people start to appreciate them.

Apart from the Fiat X1/9 that they both cribbed off, which came out in the 1970s.

Yeah, those two were really ahead of their time.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Future Classic, but not a thing of legend.

 

[12thgear]

Future Classic, but not a thing of legend.

Of the dissent, I find these opinions the most compelling, though I still voted yes.

 

[cuco33]

Can you elaborate? A buddy of mine said "no" too, arguing that to be legendary, a car needed a mythology around it, whether it's a storied racing history or a level of performance the world never thought was possible. He called the Miata a landmark and an icon, but not exactly a legend.

That's kind of where I'd put it too, in the same lines as the Porsche 944.. a landmark and icon but not really a legend.

A legend to me is a car EVERYONE agrees on being that epic and iconic car, usually brought on by winning championships and trophies. Cars like the 911 to Audi's R8 and then R10 cars. But it's all opinion based. I just don't see the Miata being legendary. It's probably more known by the masses as being a 'bitch's car' than a good sporty roadster that does quite well on the race track. Even till today, some of my friends will call the Miata a girly car and every time I say 'you know it's a really good handling roadster on the twisties, right?'

 

[fitftw]

The Miata is for geeks. It's not for macho men who worry about their status in this crazy nonsensical life. It's for minimalists, spartans, the people who recognize that life is short and pointless and ask why drive an expensive dull huge unnecessary car when the Miata offers more than anyone could ever need? We've already discussed the V8 and boost options available for this car. Throw on some $1,500+ coilovers, sticky tires, swaybar, take it for a spin, come back, and just TRY to call it gay and stupid.

 

[12thgear]

The Miata is for geeks. It's not for macho men who worry about their status in this crazy nonsensical life. It's for minimalists, spartans, the people who recognize that life is short and pointless and ask why drive an expensive dull huge unnecessary car when the Miata offers more than anyone could ever need? We've already discussed the V8 and boost options available for this car. Throw on some $1,500+ coilovers, sticky tires, swaybar, take it for a spin, come back, and just TRY to call it gay and stupid.

Geeks and auto writers can list a bunch of reasons why the Miata is a rewarding drive, but I think what speaks volumes about the car is you can give the keys to any Joe on the street and he'll have a great time driving it, even if he can't articulate why the car's so much fun. He may not know that it's lightweight and well balanced, with good suspension geometry, but he can tell you it's a hoot.

 

[zr1chris]

I do. The MR2, Supra, RX-7, CRX, Integra, Prelude, 3000GT, 240SX, all gone. The Miata? Still around, and always will be. That's how I know it is legendary. You just don't see it yet. According to my logic, Honda's Civic is legendary. Do you agree? Fuel-efficient, capable of big power, it was a genius car then and it's still one of the best cars in its class after all these years of the competition trying to imitate. Nobody has even tried to steal thunder from Mazda because their Miata is too damn good, it would be futile to try and dethrone it. S2000 had a chance, but they axed it, and car reviewers chose the Miata anyway.

I agree the Civic is definitely legendary. As for your first sentence The RX7 and CRX and Intergra are still being made. They are just under a different name. RX7 is the RX8, CRX is the new CRZ, and the Integra is the RSX.