The Mazda Miata: Legendary or not?

[zr1chris]

Translation: You can't come up with an intelligent reply. No worries, just wanted to confirm that.

The Civic is the highest selling compact car ever. If not for the civic there would be no "body kits" or what we call "tuners" today. The Civic started it all on the Japanese tuner import scene. The Civic has far more history. Once again Im no fan of the Civic either but it has meant much more to the auto industry than the Miata. The Miata is nothing more than an over-sized go-kart with the same power.

No, I'm really not sure whether common sense is indeed common. I see the opposite every single day.

Then go back to reading your comic books. Some of you guys want to keep acting disrespectful then bring it on. I can take it and dish it back also.

 

[Luminis]

The Civic is the highest selling compact car ever. If not for the civic there would be no "body kits" or what we call "tuners" today. The Civic started it all on the Japanese tuner import scene. The Civic has far more history. Once again Im no fan of the Civic either but it has meant much more to the auto industry than the Miata. The Miata is nothing more than an over-sized go-kart with the same power.

You're trolling, right? I mean, you basically have to.

Then go back to reading your comic books. You guys want to keep acting disrespectful then bring it on. I can take it a dish it back also.

Luckily, I don't need to read comic books to copy paste random stuff from goodle. Makes things much easier

 

[Rotary Junkie]

The Civic is the highest selling compact car ever. If not for the civic there would be no "body kits" or what we call "tuners" today. The Civic started it all on the Japanese tuner import scene. The Civic has far more history. Once again Im no fan of the Civic either but it has meant much more to the auto industry than the Miata.

Point one: You sure? Could've sworn that went to the Toyota Corolla.

Point two: Ahahahahaha nope. It wasn't the car that caused the stupidity of kits and huge wings, it was the people doing it. The Civic just happened to be there.

The rest? Hahhhhhhhhhhh. No. The Civic wasn't really revolutionary in any way, shape, or form. It was just another economy car. Arguably the Corolla has done it better to boot, having outsold every other car in the world.

Miata on the other hand is definitely the only reason the Sky/Solstice ever existed, the S2000, etc etc. Sports cars died when bean counters saw they didn't sell. Then the Miata came along and showed that everyone was just doing it wrong.

 

[zr1chris]

Luckily, I don't need to read comic books to copy paste random stuff from goodle. Makes things much easier

Spell check also makes things much easier.

 

[Luminis]

Spell check also makes things much easier.

Now that's clever. My, this 'debate' is getting more intelligent with every single post of yours, buddy.

Anyways, regarding the 'no tuners without the Civic' thing:
AC Schnitzer, founded in 1967 has been reworking BMWs since the mid-eighties. I doubt the Civic affected them in any way, shape or form whatsoever.

 

[zr1chris]

Point one: You sure? Could've sworn that went to the Toyota Corolla.

Point two: Ahahahahaha nope. It wasn't the car that caused the stupidity of kits and huge wings, it was the people doing it. The Civic just happened to be there.

The rest? Hahhhhhhhhhhh. No. The Civic wasn't really revolutionary in any way, shape, or form. It was just another economy car. Arguably the Corolla has done it better to boot, having outsold every other car in the world.

Miata on the other hand is definitely the only reason the Sky/Solstice ever existed, the S2000, etc etc. Sports cars died when bean counters saw they didn't sell. Then the Miata came along and showed that everyone was just doing it wrong.

Ok so maybe it was second. Big Deal.
That statement in bold is a far reach. How in the world can you say that those cars would have never came out if it were not for the Miata. Did you work for those companies to know their reasoning behind their cars? I can almost see that being the case with the Sky but the Solstice was more like the second coming of the Fiero than being anything like the Miata.

Now that's clever. My, this 'debate' is getting more intelligent with every single post of yours, buddy.

Anyways, regarding the 'no tuners without the Civic' thing:
AC Schnitzer, founded in 1967 has been reworking BMWs since the mid-eighties. I doubt the Civic affected them in any way, shape or form whatsoever.

Isn't it? Its obviously keeping you coming back for more. (BTW I already know your next line. Some of you are getting pretty predictable.)

 

[fitftw]

What engine do you have in your MX-5?

the BP 1.8L 133hp 2,200lbs in stock form. As for mods, mine has intake, 4-1 header, test pipe, hardtop, beefy rollbar, no A/C, no P/S, no soft top, no airbags, no passenger seat deleted, no carpet or interior trim, Momo wheel, 2.5" 14lb catback exhaust, Tein Flex suspension, Koyo radiator, Mishimoto hoses, straight-shot clutchline from master to slave cylinder, 14" RPF1's inside Dunlop Star Specs, bringing it to about 140hp and 2,000lbs. Will eventually be adding a new intake manifold ported to a big throttle body with a MP62 supercharger slapped on top for 200whp. 10lbs per hp. Also, the Miata comes stock from the factory with 50:50 weight distribution, battery in the trunk. It is purpose-built. How you can say the Civic is better than a Miata is beyond me. Sure it's more economical. I'd like to see a Civic vs. Miata stock for stock on a track like Tsukuba and watch the Civic get demolished. Better still, mod them both equally and watch the distance get even further.

 

[Luminis]

Isn't it? Its obviously keeping you coming back for more.

Well, there is some sort of entertainment to be had here, yeah.

(BTW I already know your next line. Some of you are getting pretty predictable.)

What? The AC Schnitzer one? So, you knew your point about tuner companies not existing without the Civic would be invalidated the moment you posted it?

 

[zr1chris]

Well, there is some sort of entertainment to be had here, yeah.

Pretty much what I thought you would say.

 

[Crispy]

The Civic is the highest selling compact car ever. If not for the civic there would be no "body kits" or what we call "tuners" today. The Civic started it all on the Japanese tuner import scene. The Civic has far more history. Once again Im no fan of the Civic either but it has meant much more to the auto industry than the Miata. The Miata is nothing more than an over-sized go-kart with the same power.

First bold statement, isn't that the Corrola or Camry?
Second, I though that Nissan started all that, the cheaper tuners like 240ZG and things like that, though I might be mistaken.

 

[Eric.]

Ok so maybe it was second. Big Deal.
That statement in bold is a far reach. How in the world can you say that those cars would have never came out if it were not for the Miata. Did you work for those companies to know their reasoning behind their cars? I can almost see that being the case with the Sky but the Solstice was more like the second coming of the Fiero than being anything like the Miata.

The Sky and Solstice are the same car...how can you even relate them to a Fiero?

And the Civic being legendary...no. Just an economy car that has had some hot versions (which have no doubt had a big effect on the "JDM scene", which has then spread across most of the automotive world, but if not for the Type Rs, it wouldn't be anything more than an alternative Corolla at any point.)

 

[Luminis]

Pretty much what I thought you would say.

That's easy to write after reading a post, ain't it?

Second, I though that Nissan started all that, the cheaper tuners like 240ZG and things like that, though I might be mistaken.

Depends on what you're talking about. As far as tuner companies go, I'd say that's fairly hard to say. Companies like AMG have been preparing road cars for racing since the sixties, so if we're looking for the start of the tuning scene in general, that's where one would have to start looking for the 'roots' of the tuner companies: Motorsport in the 1960s, maybe even earlier.

If we're talking about the whole import tuner thing, that started in the late 80s, early 90s. Lots of cheap cars that reacted well to modifications... So, I doubt there's hardly a fixed point in time or company to relate that to, either.

The whole 'huge body kits and tacky wings' thing, though: 2001, Universal Pictures, The Fast and The Furious

 

[zr1chris]

First bold statement, isn't that the Corrola or Camry?
Second, I though that Nissan started all that, the cheaper tuners like 240ZG and things like that, though I might be mistaken.

If you would look at the statement above you will see that I did admit I was wrong and that the Corolla was the highest selling. (something some of you could learn to do but im sure wont ever)

The Sky and Solstice are the same car...how can you even relate them to a Fiero?

They are bigger cars that are not simple little go-karts. They are more about style and performance.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Also, the Miata comes stock from the factory with 50:50 weight distribution, battery in the trunk. It is purpose-built.

It's not exactly 50:50, but pretty close.

 

[Azuremen]

The Civic is the highest selling compact car ever.

How is that possible when the Corolla is the best selling name plate, ever? And is also a compact?

If not for the civic there would be no "body kits" or what we call "tuners" today. The Civic started it all on the Japanese tuner import scene. The Civic has far more history. Once again Im no fan of the Civic either but it has meant much more to the auto industry than the Miata. The Miata is nothing more than an over-sized go-kart with the same power.

Compact tuning and such started with VW, not Honda. Just another thing you might want to keep in mind.

They are bigger cars that are not simple little go-karts. They are more about style and performance.

The Fiero was a pile of crap, and a terrible car in turns of how it handled and drove. The "new" Solstice and Sky did quite a bit better than them, but they aren't exactly larger than an NC Miata, and certainly have far worse interior layouts and assembly.

 

[Zenith]

(something some of you could learn to do but im sure wont ever

Your not even sure yourself. Just sad.

What was that about spelling?

You should probably check your facts before you try to use them in a discussion... or don't. I get a laugh watching everyone else on this forum pick your arguments apart either way.

 

[Eric.]

They are bigger cars that are not simple little go-karts. They are more about style and performance.

Right...so the FT-86 is the MR2 reincarnated?

 

[MatskiMonk]

For one thing, the VW scene seems bigger. Much bigger to be honest, but that might be due to affordability and the 'style' that's done there.
And, while most 3 series can be had for little money, what's special about a car like the usual three series? it's not light, the suspension isn't very special, it doesn't haave much power, the interior isn't bad but nothing to really brag about, either.

And, while it does have a lot of racing heritage, does that matter when the car that's entered in the WTCC isn't even remotely close to what you're getting when you're buying a 320i?

Granted, the VW scene is pretty huge.. to be honest I'd forgotten entirely about it, despite going to many events with my two GTI owning friends .

The 3 series as an overall package is very good, it may not be the lightest car, but I've just driven home in a Toyota that probably weighs 300kg less than my 3er, but it goes, turns and stops like a sack of c*** - lightness is good, but does not alone make for a good car.. like I said, the 3 series as a package is typically better than it's close peers and rivals.

And no... driving a 320 (even an Si) doesn't make you Andy Priaulx (or Roberto Ravaglia), but since the original argument was about a car being legendary, numerous titles in national, and international, GT racing, Touring car racing, Endurance racing, (and even a WRC round) does help... MX5 have any of those (genuine question?)......

... anyway.. we'll agree to not totally agree and let the thread get back on topic.. or at least back to Civic Vs Miata trolling !

 

[fitftw]

Right...so the FT-86 is the MR2 reincarnated?

What? No, it's supposed to be the modern AE86, hence the 86 in the name...the FT is FR, not MR...

 

[Eric.]

What? No, it's supposed to be the modern AE86, hence the 86 in the name...the FT is FR, not MR...

And he's saying that the Sky and Solstice hark back to the Fiero.

 

[homeforsummer]

And no... driving a 320 (even an Si) doesn't make you Andy Priaulx (or Roberto Ravaglia), but since the original argument was about a car being legendary, numerous titles in national, and international, GT racing, Touring car racing, Endurance racing, (and even a WRC round) does help... MX5 have any of those (genuine question?)......

Not really, but nor does the VW Beetle, and you'd be hard pressed to not include that in a list of the most legendary vehicles of all time. Much as racing can contribute to a model's status (think Porsche 911), it's certainly not the be-all and end-all.

For the record, I see where you're coming from with the 3-Series, but it's not the car we're debating

 

[zr1chris]

How is that possible when the Corolla is the best selling name plate, ever? And is also a compact?



Compact tuning and such started with VW, not Honda. Just another thing you might want to keep in mind.



The Fiero was a pile of crap, and a terrible car in turns of how it handled and drove. The "new" Solstice and Sky did quite a bit better than them, but they aren't exactly larger than an NC Miata, and certainly have far worse interior layouts and assembly.

You need to read more than just the posts you want to quote. The best selling car thing has already been corrected.

The Fiero just got a bad rap and most people that really have any real knowledge of them knows that. Of course the Sky and Solstice are better they are 20 years newer. I would hope that the engineering would have advanced in 20 years time.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Not really, but nor does the VW Beetle, and you'd be hard pressed to not include that in a list of the most legendary vehicles of all time.

True.. speaking of which, when is the 25 hour VW Beetle Fun Cup race from Spa Francorchamps taking place? (http://www.funcup.co.uk/)

 

[Luminis]

Granted, the VW scene is pretty huge.. to be honest I'd forgotten entirely about it, despite going to many events with my two GTI owning friends .

At times, looking at the cars that are featured in the VW tuner scene mags, I'd like to do, too

The 3 series as an overall package is very good, it may not be the lightest car, but I've just driven home in a Toyota that probably weighs 300kg less than my 3er, but it goes, turns and stops like a sack of c*** - lightness is good, but does not alone make for a good car.. like I said, the 3 series as a package is typically better than it's close peers and rivals.

I'm not saying it's not good - it's just not, you know, on that level. It's a commuter car that, in some sense, inherited the sporty spirit. But, after driving a few BMWs myself, I don't think the base models are very special at, well, anything. The one that sticks out as a great car to drive was a friend's 130i hatch, but that had the optional M-package... All I'm saying is, the usual versions aren't anywhere near the level of the M cars, or any other 'special' car.

And no... driving a 320 (even an Si) doesn't make you Andy Priaulx (or Roberto Ravaglia), but since the original argument was about a car being legendary, numerous titles in national, and international, GT racing, Touring car racing, Endurance racing, (and even a WRC round) does help... MX5 have any of those (genuine question?)......

The Miatas haven't been used for proffesional racing, I think. Just for the grass roots stuff. Which is why I think that's a point i favour of the Miata: You buy one and you're basically getting the car that's being raced. Not the car the race car is somewhat loosely based on

... anyway.. we'll agree to not totally agree and let the thread get back on topic.. or at least back to Civic Vs Miata trolling !

Agreed. Dunno whether that's more of a meaningful debate, though

 

[zr1chris]

... anyway.. we'll agree to not totally agree and let the thread get back on topic.. or at least back to Civic Vs Miata trolling !

It was actually a Miata owner that brought up the Civic at the top of page 8.

 

[homeforsummer]

True.. speaking of which, when is the 25 hour VW Beetle Fun Cup race from Spa Francorchamps taking place? (http://www.funcup.co.uk/)

Heh. Saw them racing at Croft recently. They're Beetle-shaped but they're about as close to real Beetles as a NASCAR is to a real Fusion/Camry/Impala. So they don't really count

 

[MatskiMonk]

Heh. Saw them racing at Croft recently. They're Beetle-shaped but they're about as close to real Beetles as a NASCAR is to a real Fusion/Camry/Impala. So they don't really count

Lol, since I've had to abort my "fortnight in Europe for the ultimate endurance double-header" (i.e. LM24 & N24), I'm quite tempted to do the '25 hr race, never been to Spa ...

 

[Azuremen]

You need to read more than just the posts you want to quote. The best selling car thing has already been corrected.

I think it needed to be said again, so that you are fully aware of how much your criteria keep changing.

The Fiero just got a bad rap and most people that really have any real knowledge of them knows that. Of course the Sky and Solstice are better they are 20 years newer. I would hope that the engineering would have advanced in 20 years time.

The last model year was the only one with a properly sorted suspension; the models before that suffered from serious bump steer issues and just general poor handling. Because the suspension pieces came off some car that really wasn't an MR and they weren't really meant for that chassis to begin with. And why is that? Because of cut corners and rushing to get it out.

 

[zr1chris]

The last model year was the only one with a properly sorted suspension; the models before that suffered from serious bump steer issues and just general poor handling. Because the suspension pieces came off some car that really wasn't an MR and they weren't really meant for that chassis to begin with. And why is that? Because of cut corners and rushing to get it out.

Yes their was some corner cutting going on here and there but there was ALLOT of corner cutting going on in the 80's (possibly the worst decade for cars ever)

 

[Zenith]

When I think of Legendary I think Shelby Cobra, Corvette, Ferrari F40, Ferrari Daytona, GT40, Lamborghini Countach, The first BMW M3, Caterham 7, McLaren F1, 57 Chevy Bel Air, 71 Challenger etc etc. The list goes on and on. The Miata doesnt belong with these cars.

Legendary cars are rare.

Accessiblity isn't what makes a car legendary. Its Iconic status is what makes a car legendary.

Legendary are iconic.

I know the car is popular all over the world. It doesnt mean its legendary. Also this is a matter of OPINION as to what one person may think is legendary as to what someone else may think.

Legendary doesn't need to be iconic, Lil' Chris must like it.

The only test that the Miata passes is that its one of the best grassroots racers. Thats it. Its not a beautiful piece of art. Its not fast. Its not luxurious. Its not ahead of its time. Im not saying it has to pass all of the tests but it has to do more than one thing.

Legendary cars are good at many things.

The Fiero and MR2 were ahead of the Miata and ahead of their time.

All that it takes to be legendary is to be ahead of your time.

The only reason the Miata gets its notoriety is because of its price (bang for the buck).

Miata's are popular solely because they're cheap.

You will never ever here someone (mainly any men) say that a Miata is their dream car and if they do then their standards are pretty low or are extremely easily pleased.

Legendary cars must be dream cars.

The Civic as been around much longer, it has a much larger fan base, its styling is much better, and Its also fun cheap thrills with a bit more power than the Miata.

Legendary cars must be popular and sold to the masses.

The Civic is the highest selling compact car ever. If not for the civic there would be no "body kits" or what we call "tuners" today. The Civic started it all on the Japanese tuner import scene. The Civic has far more history.

Legendary cars must be bring change to car culture. Miata's don't.