What would make Gran Turismo 7 a guaranteed purchase for you?

[TheAnimeDude]

If GT7 is GT2/GT4,but even mkre expansive I will be happy to buy GT7.

 

[Griffith500]

Fully customisable engine sounds.

The game can be identical to GT6 except that one feature, and I'd buy it yesterday.


Otherwise, a back-to-its-roots focus on club-level racing, combined with a great toolbox for driving cars in various environments, would be perfect.

I don't believe in refresh upscaling. How would it even work? The point of a high refresh is to let the game react to your head movement with less delay. How exactly will a refresh "upscaler" do this? Will it predict what the next frame will be ahead of time? How will it know what the next frame will contain? How will it interpolate two points in time without having information about more than one point in time?

The best it can do it interpolate frames after they've been rendered, which doesn't allow for faster response in any way.

You're right, of course. And that 8 ms difference is noticeable, although I expect it varies amongst individuals, like most (if not all) other perceptual effects. Refresh rate and input-output latency are not necessarily the same thing: VR nausea is caused by the latency primarily, of which the render latency (framerate) is but one part.

Total, full-loop input-output latency of a typical gaming setup is not going to be much better than 100 ms in many cases, no matter what framerate you run. You could probably easily reduce that to 50 ms with bespoke display hardware, but that's still noticeably laggy with VR, inducing aforementioned vomit.

Reducing that has been found to help massively with immersion (and nausea), the target eventually being sub-20ms for absolute best results (requires intervention at the software / API / OS level, which is easier on consoles than PC). That's latency, remember, not framerate; but obviously a framerate of 60 Hz only leaves 3 ms to do everything else required to get the final rendered image into the players' eyes.


Which is to say that this has all been looked at, and worked out to varying degrees, by Sony, Valve, Oculus et al.

In particular, check out Oculus' implementation of "time warping", which uses up-to-date viewpoint info after the frame is rendered, but before it's sent to the display, to warp the image to fit the latest viewpoint data. This could chop 10-15 ms out of the effective "motion-to-photons" latency figure at 60 Hz. Oculus also use it for interpolated frames, to reduce the necessity (but not the comparative effectiveness) of higher frame rendering rates for reducing the perceived latency, and to prevent dropped frames.

Sony's "reprojection" is likely very similar. Note that it's also of utility for 2D displays.

 

[Aussie_HSV]

A release date.

People can carry-on all they want, and claim it will take 'this' or 'that'.
The odds of GT7 on the PS4 being such a weak game it isn't worth buying, either on release or second hand, is minute.

If you have a PS4, sooner or later, you'll get it.
And if you buy any console, purely to play one game and one game only, you need to broaden your horizons.

 

[gdmnd]

Saabs! That's my deal breaker. I would buy PS4, wheel and game whithout batting an eyelid if there were Saabs in there.

 

[Tenacious D]

I want a lot of things in GT7. I want sublime car physics. I want a thousand-plus cars. I want a powerful Race Mod and a comprehensive Livery Editor for most cars. I want lots of league based racing in a bunch of different leagues. I want a Career Mode that reflects real life advancement in a separate sim mode all to itself. I want Course Maker III and an Event Maker. I want to be able to blend my music with the in-game soundtrack.

But most of all, I just want GT7. Pre-purchase for me.

 

[Aussie_HSV]

I want a lot of things in GT7. I want sublime car physics. I want a thousand-plus cars. I want a powerful Race Mod and a comprehensive Livery Editor for most cars. I want lots of league based racing in a bunch of different leagues. I want a Career Mode that reflects real life advancement in a separate sim mode all to itself. I want Course Maker III and an Event Maker. I want to be able to blend my music with the in-game soundtrack.

But most of all, I just want GT7. Pre-purchase for me.

So you want everything that all other games offer wrapped into one, but yet none deliver.
But of course, if GT7 doesn't deliver, it will fail.

It's amazing how the bar for GT is set so high that all other games cannot hit it, and yet if GT doesn't, for many here, it somehow fails, while all other games get a free-pass.

 

[matherto]

No standards, no semi standards and a complete overhaul of the car list.

 

[Johnnypenso]

So you want everything that all other games offer wrapped into one, but yet none deliver.
But of course, if GT7 doesn't deliver, it will fail.

It's amazing how the bar for GT is set so high that all other games cannot hit it, and yet if GT doesn't, for many here, it somehow fails, while all other games get a free-pass.

Try reading beyond the first paragraph.

"I just want GT7. Pre-purchase for me."

 

[XtremeEdward]

A few more things to add to my list
1) Ability to win prize cars again (GT4 feature)
2) If there is a Formula GT championship, then we should have the real track with according race lengths.
3) Better ( and more) tuning features (Tire pressures, Aerodynamics) If you need a reference of this, check out NFS Shift 2 Unleashed.
4) Return of the TG test track

 

[Aussie_HSV]

Try reading beyond the first paragraph.

Try reading beyond what you think you can argue with.

"The odds of GT7 on the PS4 being such a weak game it isn't worth buying, either on release or second hand, is minute."

But hey, you just simply quote what you feel you can argue with, and ignore the rest.

 

[Tenacious D]

It's amazing how the bar for GT is set so high that all other games cannot hit it, and yet if GT doesn't, for many here, it somehow fails, while all other games get a free-pass.

Yeah, it's interesting how there are different standards - I said standards - for different racers.

I got a lot of grief for stating that I didn't like the violent bots in GRID Autosport. I was told the bots were just about paaarfect for racing, and I was just a wuss who didn't like competitive racing. So along comes RaceRoom, Assetto Corsa and P CARS with far less aggressive bots, and I hear not a peep about how wimpy and boring they are. Especially Johnnypenso who at the time adored GA's bots, or so he said. Maybe that was then, and P CARS is now, who knows.

I've been bouncing around a lot between my various racing games, because every single one of them disappoints me in some way, and each one has benefits that make it worth playing.

JohnnyP seriously oversold Project CARS, so when I got it, I discovered a game which has questionable physics. In fact, it feels like just enough of a sim to be called one, but seemingly with a heavy dose of code from Forza 2 and Gran Turismo 4 - yes, 4. The tires make almost no sound whatsoever, and this is a key factor in any racing game to having a sense of how well a car can be pushed through a turn. This hurts a game which could be pretty darn awesome, and makes it difficult to feel in control of the car, at least for a while, assuming you can adjust to it well. As I raced it in Time Lap mode - a lot - I finally began to get a sense of how to connect with the cars, but I still have to resort to using the braking line when coming back to it, because that missing ingredient is pretty darn crucial. The game is otherwise pretty impressive, with a handful of cars in each class, especially the FIA GT classes, and a lot of tracks to race around on. But the joy of being able to push a car around a curve is half neutered by the half-sim physics and the AWOL tire sounds. It feels a lot like a mod of an arcade racer someone improved with simmish qualities, because it doesn't quite feel finished. Oh, and I failed to mention that the weather is pretty bad, and changes from minute to minute...

I went ahead and splurged on an XBone, Thrustmaster wheel and Forza 6 to the tune of $900 - yes, for one game - and was immediately crushed. First that the TX wheel was bad, and then when Thrustmaster was nice enough to send a new base unit, found out that furthermore, Forza 6 was hosed in the FFB department too. What's more, the XBone doesn't even recognize the wheel is plugged in at all, and functions anyway! I finally determined that the Forza demo had messed up the wheel implementation, but deleting it only slightly improved the FFB problem. And the console still has no clue that a wheel is plugged in, but at least it works. The problem is that when you turn the wheel, the FFB code seems to overreact to the friction dynamics, and if you take a turn very aggressively at all, the tires quickly shift from making a strangled Predator sound to squealing, and the car threatens to flip out. So every curve is a skittish nudge through the turn, with the car going through a schitzophrenic dance between being fully in control to threatening to spin out every few tenths of a second. Oh, and Forza 6 has weather, but in the usual Microsoft style, there are no showers, just freaking downpours, with water building up through the course of a short race, even though it's clearly been pouring for hours. And it has an awesome Livery Editor, which as usual has weird issues with a number of the cars in the game, making painting up your favorite rides something of an ordeal. And, I could go on for another half a page with the strange issues the game has, such as having room for only TEN replays?? Gah, $900 for this weirdness...

I also own Assetto Corsa, another strange game. It has amazing physics... and very few cars and tracks to explore them. If you have a favorite car or track, chances are it's not in the game. It's so small that every DLC pack expands the game considerably. And the "career" has you going through the same routine of time trials into races into time trials, making it very repetitive. I quit when I got to the X Bow level, because the car is just wretched to race, at least to me. And I can only enjoy doing single races with the handful of relevant cars to pit against each other for so long.

And I broke down and bought RaceRoom Racing Experience, R3E to its fans. This has my attention. Formerly SIMBIN until they went bankrupt, Sector 3 Studios took the guts of their GTR franchise and tried to rebuild it from scratch. By their own admission, they suffered a bit of Polyphony-itis in being indecisive on which direction to take their new game, and ended up with a muddled launch of a tiny number of cars and tracks, a small core available for free with the rest for purchase piecemeal, and it ended up alienating much of its old fanbase. This conflicted foundation resulted in an odd game which as it grew, was bestowed with some very nice content and wonderful if ever evolving physics. It has a number of racing machines from number of disparate racing disciplines, and more than two dozen racing locations, some of them with nice variations. It also resulted in a game lacking a number of features integral to racing sims, such as pitstops and savable car setups, and the online system is about as barebones as in GT6, so it's definitely a work in progress. However, what is there is very good. It just might not be enough to satisfy the usual sim racer. And being sold in pieces, down to the liveries in many cases (!), means that you can spend more than $200 to get it all, even in the bundles they offer at their online store.

And I haven't even touched rFactor 2 or iRacing, which both have their own issues to contend with. Which brings me back to GT6. Wow... this all makes the heated arguments over the game here on the boards seem like people here have never touched another racing game, and pretend that every other racer is perfect. When they darn well aren't. I have to shake my head and surmise that human beings are really, really strange creatures who don't think all that logically.

 

[Aussie_HSV]

*Major clip of quote*
Which brings me back to GT6. Wow... this all makes the heated arguments over the game here on the boards seem like people here have never touched another racing game, and pretend that every other racer is perfect. When they darn well aren't. I have to shake my head and surmise that human beings are really, really strange creatures who don't think all that logically.

Apologies for the big edit of the post.

But, from global sales affecting all generes, which just maybe be finally sinking in to some people with the current climate, to the failures, bugs, and lack of peoples personal preferences.
No game covers it all.

But here, only GT seem to face the wrath.
I see it as nothing more than a compliment of the franchise.
Many seem to pick on anything they can, in some futile attempt to knock GT down a few pegs.
'Tall poppy' syndrome, as it would be called here in Aus.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Try reading beyond what you think you can argue with.

"The odds of GT7 on the PS4 being such a weak game it isn't worth buying, either on release or second hand, is minute."

But hey, you just simply quote what you feel you can argue with, and ignore the rest.

Why are you quoting something that isn't a part of the post you quoted when you went on your rant? If that's the post you intended to reply to, you should have quoted it originally.

Apologies for the big edit of the post.

But, from global sales affecting all generes, which just maybe be finally sinking in to some people with the current climate, to the failures, bugs, and lack of peoples personal preferences.
No game covers it all.

But here, only GT seem to face the wrath.
I see it as nothing more than a compliment of the franchise.
Many seem to pick on anything they can, in some futile attempt to knock GT down a few pegs.
'Tall poppy' syndrome, as it would be called here in Aus.

Bollocks. The PCars Forum has had a boatload of vitreol since the game was launched. It's quieted down lately because most of the people who had major issues have given up on the game in frustration. A brief glance at the Forza 6 Forum shows that it's not exactly roses over there either:
Did Forza 6 bomb in sales?
Bugs, glitches and ongoing issues
Forza 4 has better sound than Forza 6

There is nothing unusual about the GT forums. They are much busier than the other game forums so it's only natural that the volume seems higher.

 

[Aussie_HSV]

Why are you quoting something that isn't a part of the post you quoted when you went on your rant? If that's the post you intended to reply to, you should have quoted it originally.

Bollocks. The PCars Forum has had a boatload of vitreol since the game was launched. It's quieted down lately because most of the people who had major issues have given up on the game in frustration. A brief glance at the Forza 6 Forum shows that it's not exactly roses over there either:
Did Forza 6 bomb in sales?
Bugs, glitches and ongoing issues
Forza 4 has better sound than Forza 6

There is nothing unusual about the GT forums. They are much busier than the other game forums so it's only natural that the volume seems higher.

The question is why did you quote a post, and ignore another earlier post which was directly related to it?
I stated 'release purchase', which was entirley relevant to your original quote.
Which I notice you still fail to recognise.
Surprise, surprise.

Vitreol, you say.
'Quotes 3 threads from other boards'.

Wow.
Staggerred.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Yeah, it's interesting how there are different standards - I said standards - for different racers.

I got a lot of grief for stating that I didn't like the violent bots in GRID Autosport. I was told the bots were just about paaarfect for racing, and I was just a wuss who didn't like competitive racing. So along comes RaceRoom, Assetto Corsa and P CARS with far less aggressive bots, and I hear not a peep about how wimpy and boring they are. Especially Johnnypenso who at the time adored GA's bots, or so he said. Maybe that was then, and P CARS is now, who knows.

Who are these people that said GAS bots were paaarfect? It seems you are inferring that it was me since I'm the only person named. If not me, then who are you referring to?

 

[SpookyVenom1]

One thing that I want Gran Turismo to bring back is to have the menus feel a bit more fun and upbeat like the older ones; Gran Turismo 1-3 menus were simple, fun, and had awesome music to get you in the mood for racing or buying vehicles in the dealerships. Ever since GT5, the music and menu layouts just haven't been as memorable or exciting, more often than not just makes me fall asleep.

Sometimes, its the little things that can make a big difference in game enjoyment.

 

[gt3_racer05]

GT7 is a new GT title on new platform, therefore, PD should scrap everything and build it from the ground up. This time, just focus on quality, quality, quality. They can worry about quantity later down the road. If they can do that, I'll buy it.

 

[Conza]

I'll have to wait and see seriously, before I buy this game, GT6 was automatic, but GT7, hmm...

Porsche. By itself, game bought.

Majority of up to date cars, I mean cars from the last 3 years and next year in the game, enough of those combined would tip me over.

Enough added Classic cars, again, enough of these would also tip me over - possibly a combination with the above (not enough classic or new cars by themselves, a combination might win me over).

Intensely good AI, anything less than that doesn't sell it for me. Engine swaps, any part on any car, custom events would also sell me. Weekly seasonal races, not TT or DTs. No more Vision Gran Turismo cars, I would buy it if they cut that non-sense out and focused on stuff that matters (it would show with the other content anyway, even if it wasn't content that I personally want).

A very cheap PS4 (GT7 deal) - if it's cheap enough, I will eventually just buy it I think.

Otherwise, tough call with the directions of the series and a new console being required. It'll need to deliver on promises for once in... 10 years?

 

[Tired Tyres]

But most of all, I just want GT7. Pre-purchase for me.

Congratulations. People with that attitude are the reason PD can go through the motions. Well done.

 

[ChromeBallz]

A few things the game really needs:

a) A proper career mode. No racing game in existence currently has a meaningful career mode, where you go from a hatchback to an F1/Nascar/LMP race, seasons rather than one-race 3-lap affairs, letting you get attached to your cars rather than making them throwaway tools to get to the high credit races....

b) .... and an AI which doesn't just know how to race, but one which has character. Characters you love to see on track, characters you love to fight with. Not just nameless brand commercials as they are now.

c) CONSISTENCY in every single aspect of the game. Car/track quality and fidelity, UI design, features on offer. Not the hodge-podge random collection of polygons that GT5/GT6 have become.

If the game can do that, i will be getting a PS4 just for that.

 

[Griffith500]

Congratulations. People with that attitude are the reason PD can go through the motions. Well done.

It's endemic to the entire industry, and it's publisher driven, not developer driven. Publishers collect cash from investors to fund development, whilst stipulating a given return on it in a given time-frame. The investors are typically looking for maximal return for minimal risk in the least possible time.

It's endemic to the entire system of capitalism, and it's investor driven. The link, if anyone is struggling to see it, is in the publisher's role as marketer - using all the tricks of the consumerist's trade. In particular, selling an "experience" and preying on fears of "social relevance". Get that pre-order in now; tell your friends. I'm not sure that applies to TenD in this case.

If we as "consumers" were able to reward craft pertinent to the actual product - and not the impression, appearance or pretence of craft, but actual craft - then maybe things would be different. But the particular craft we are interested in is emergent and unpredictable, so it muddies the "minimal risk" aspect somewhat and therefore threatens "investment", because a return isn't so easily guaranteed within a given timeframe. So it is comparatively rare, and increasingly more unlikely to be attempted as a result.

In respect of this particular "risk" (and timeframe...) PD are actually pretty out there, doing stuff others wouldn't think of, precisely because it's too risky. In many cases things arrived that were both unprecedented and unexpected, and that could be a reason to buy just to see what's new. But I suppose it helps when you have such a large budget (where the usual consumerist model would stipulate the spending of half of that on adverts), although that wasn't always the case.

Supporting PD in that sense is supporting risky business, and that's good for creativity and the end product (in the long run), even if it's from supposedly "more successful" "competitors" via imitation (inherently less risky). So it's a valid choice given that particular motivation, much as "unconditionally" supporting indie developers is for the same reasons.



I will say that a focus on new stuff can have a detrimental effect on the core experience if you're not careful. I'm not talking about race weekends and the like, as they are technically extraneous, rather the core aspect of navigating an engaging environment in a vehicle of your own tweaking.

So what GT7 could stand to benefit from, along with the new, risky craft they've visibly been winding up to implement on PS4, is for PD to revisit that core gameplay loop of tweak and drive and make that historic craft more accessible and customisable.

 

[Elitekilla29]

A few things the game really needs:

a) A proper career mode. No racing game in existence currently has a meaningful career mode, where you go from a hatchback to an F1/Nascar/LMP race, seasons rather than one-race 3-lap affairs, letting you get attached to your cars rather than making them throwaway tools to get to the high credit races....

b) .... and an AI which doesn't just know how to race, but one which has character. Characters you love to see on track, characters you love to fight with. Not just nameless brand commercials as they are now.

c) CONSISTENCY in every single aspect of the game. Car/track quality and fidelity, UI design, features on offer. Not the hodge-podge random collection of polygons that GT5/GT6 have become.

If the game can do that, i will be getting a PS4 just for that.

This is my top 3 as well. I keep repeating this.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

When I have PS4, it will be guaranteed purchase. Just spent 2 hours in GT6 driving Amuse 350Z ( 3 car version - 350Z RS, 380RS SuperLeggera, and base Z33) at SSR5 - fine tuning rear damper and ARB, lap after lap with nice songs playing on my AVR, time flies, and GT6 has served me well so far, 900+ hours, 102+k km distance, 3500 photos taken, 51 millions cost of tuning, 440+ cars, and 22k km at Tsukuba

 

[Johnnypenso]

A few things the game really needs:

a) A proper career mode. No racing game in existence currently has a meaningful career mode, where you go from a hatchback to an F1/Nascar/LMP race, seasons rather than one-race 3-lap affairs, letting you get attached to your cars rather than making them throwaway tools to get to the high credit races....

You are describing the Project Cars career mode here. You can move towards open wheelers, endurance racing etc. You can skip parts if you want, move sideways, and you race full seasons in a single car at up to full, real time race lengths. You can literally have one career that lasts for hundreds of hours if you want to and you can have multiple careers focusing on different disciplines as well.

 

[GordonS]

You are describing the Project Cars career mode here. You can move towards open wheelers, endurance racing etc. You can skip parts if you want, move sideways, and you race full seasons in a single car at up to full, real time race lengths. You can literally have one career that lasts for hundreds of hours if you want to and you can have multiple careers focusing on different disciplines as well.

Yes. Pcars has a very solid career mode, BUT it has landmines and no military vehicles!

GT7 with silky smooth framerate will be guaranteed purchase for me.

 

[basherblake]

PD proved 14 years ago that less is sometimes more.
The number of cars isn't an issue for me, provided the cars look fantastic, sound good and, in the case of contemporary road-going models, updated to as late a spec as can be worked into the game.
The PS4 hardware deserves detailed interiors. If the old "standard" models make an appearance I would feel a bit insulted, especially given the patience of the GT faithful.
I'm going to sound like a broken record but maybe if the game was stripped back a bit, like GT3.
GT6 was good, don't get me wrong, but I feel it was trying to be too much by trying to appeal to a wider audience.
It needs to be a focused sim, beautifully detailed tracks and cars, no gimmicks like moon driving (although fun, it didn't sit right in GT6), a vast array of tuning and setup options right down to tyre pressures and the ability to re-livery your race car as you would before the start of a new race season.
I have been playing Project Cars and it's by far the best racer on current gen consoles. Although it's not without its flaws, it's a benchmark which can only be surpassed by PD IF they can get GT7 right.
Fingers crossed!!

 

[Tenacious D]

Who are these people that said GAS bots were paaarfect? It seems you are inferring that it was me since I'm the only person named. If not me, then who are you referring to?

Well, you did say this:

Grid Autosport has terrific AI as well, and on the PS3. Because it's a simcade game with rivals they made a couple of other teams more aggressive than the rest so you need to always remain aware of where they are on the track. Take their AI model, remove the rival's aggressiveness and it would be absolutely perfect for the GT series. Of course TenD wouldn't like it because they'd just be "cruise missles"...you know...cars racing on the racing line that don't wander off that racing line every other corner and actually try to keep pace with you.

Not sure what the laughie is all about, since I do prefer some personality in my bots...

Of course, you also said that GA's bots would be great for any game wanting to offer "real racing," which I'm assuming you mean as realistic racing. Now, outside of GA boards, and those for which GA was their BFF, I'm unaware of anyone who holds those bots up as the epitome of racing AI. On the Steam forums, where it still seems to have a bit of life left, they still complain about it.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Well, you did say this:

Not sure what the laughie is all about, since I do prefer some personality in my bots...

Of course, you also said that GA's bots would be great for any game wanting to offer "real racing," which I'm assuming you mean as realistic racing. Now, outside of GA boards, and those for which GA was their BFF, I'm unaware of anyone who holds those bots up as the epitome of racing AI. On the Steam forums, where it still seems to have a bit of life left, they still complain about it.

So everyone on the GAS boards on is biased and their opinion is meaningless because somehow they are, "BFF's". Nice, I'm sure they'd be happy to know your opinion of them is so low. Isn't that the same type of stereotyping you abhor when it comes to GT fans? I think so.

Funny how even your selective quote doesn't support your position. I acknowledge the AI are too aggressive and nowhere do I say they are perfect. Saying they would be perfect for GT if the aggressiveness was reduced =/= perfect. In fact, let me do some selective quoting of my own:

GAS AI isn't perfect but it is on pace and generally behaves much like a real driver if you do the same. If they took out some programmed aggression on the part of your "rivals" and made a couple of situational awareness tweaks it would easily work for the GT series.

What I've seen in Grid Autosport tells me it's more than possible to create fast, competitive, realistically behaving AI even on the PS3, so certainly on the PS4. They aren't perfect but the things that make them less than perfect are simply tweaks to the programming. Some teams are more aggressive like Ravenwest, but that's deliberate programming on Codies part. GT would of course take that kind of aggressiveness out of the equation. They don't appreciate you sticking your nose in when cornering, but again, PD would just program them to leave room for you when you get any overlap

So far I'm loving GAS, the AI are fast and consistent although not perfect. Keep in mind, they don't like being treated like GT AI, they remember things, so if you race them clean, they'll race you clean...except for Ravenwest of course.. All the AI included don't like being treated like a moving guardrail so if you do, and they get a chance, they will make you pay!

See how I consistently made myself clear? Consistently acknowledged the flaws while at the same time praising their overall behaviour? You were involved in most of the threads in which I talked about GAS AI, how could you, with a straight face, say that I ever said they were "paaarfect"? It's an outright falsehood.

 

[Tornado]

Not sure what the laughie is all about, since I do prefer some personality in my bots...

GT6 bot personality.

You were involved in most of the threads in which I talked about GAS AI, how could you, with a straight face, say that I ever said they were "paaarfect"? It's an outright falsehood.

Probably for the same reason he does the same thing with the Forza forum and how

You can't say anything but the car models are paaarfect.

When he also knows that's untrue from direct experience of threads he was involved in.

 

[Tenacious D]

GT6 bot personality.

Well, look Mr Congeniality wants to join in.

In case you have forgotten, one who poses as someone with peccable long term memory, I do like GT6. I do not like just hotlapping, never have. So, brain trust of the board, just what in hail am I supposed to do to enjoy the game, besides what I have been doing? And do you even remember what that is?? As for your other comment, I seem to get along much better on the actual Forza boards than I do around this place, full of minimods such as yourself.

As for JP, you clearly seem to have a different standard with those who dislike Gran Turismo and will often make up anything to deride it. I don't recall you ever calling anyone to task over "vacuum cleaner" sounds. But as to your point, you do seem to think those GA bots are pretty darn awesome... heard of sarcasm? I have a feeling you have.

Let me add one tidbit. You and some of your cohorts have had some jolly fun describing what's going on in my own head on occasion, and of course Tor, Slip and the usual suspects couldn't be bothered over it. Nor did I go into hysterics about it. So your faux outrage over my sarcastic description of your relationship with GA's bots - which I DIDN'T EVEN SAY YOU HAD SAID, you very odd man, go back and read it again - is rather rich.