You learn something new... - Cars you didn't know existed, until now!

[Slash]

The stock version of that car was MUCH better.

How you can't like this below though, I will never know.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

Japanese cars and European cars feel and look more...sophisticated compared to American muscle cars imo.

 

[Slash]

Sometimes simple is better

 

[ProjectWHaT]

Mazda MX5. It's simple. Much more simpler than muscle. I remember Top Gear saying something about a live-rear axle on a 2006 'Stang. Cars can't be that simple.

 

[Slash]

I disagree about it being simpler than muscle. With muscle, you didn't have computers and 200 tons of wiring. It was 3 wires and then enough for lights and maybe a radio. If you were lucky you got mechanical power steering and MAYBE power windows (early 70s).

That was it. Everything else was mechanical. Made life a lot easier when trying to work on them as well

 

[xXKingJoshXx]

I was never a big fan of American muscle cars. That perfectly proves my point. ^^^^^
JDM <3

Yep. Ford Mustang II - Pinnacle of the American Muscle Car...

Mazda MX5. It's simple. Much more simpler than muscle. I remember Top Gear saying something about a live-rear axle on a 2006 'Stang. Cars can't be that simple.

Every Mustang (excluding a few of the Cobras from 2000-2004? Not sure on exact years) has had a live rear axle. It seems to get a lot of hate for it but I don't really know why.

This, the beloved Toyota AE86:

...had a live rear axle. No one seems to hate the car for its axle, though.


This Mustang, a 2013 Boss 302, is one of the best handling cars you can buy.

But it's American and has a LRA so it must be awful, right?

 

[Slash]

LRA's are better for drag racing as well.

 

[MadMike32]

I was never a big fan of American muscle cars. That perfectly proves my point. ^^^^^
JDM <3

I don't think anyone was a fan of the Mustang II. There was little that could redeem that mess of a car.

 

[Slash]

I don't think anyone was a fan of the Mustang II. There was little that could redeem that mess of a car.

I am

 

[Jet Badger]

@xXKingJoshXx, The AE86 didn't have a live axle. It was a beam axle but it had an open differential.

I don't like beam and live axles on road, and especially performance cars either. Something like 70's, 80's Escort and the like I'm fine with. But on modern cars it's unacceptable. Unsprung weight, the fact that the suspension isn't independant, lack of adjustability - just doesn't add up with modern cars. If that axle is supported by leaf springs it's even worse.

For the record, the Mach1 Mustang (fastback preferrably) is one of very few american cars that I love and it's on top of that list.

 

[Badasp5.0]

Mazda MX5. It's simple. Much more simpler than muscle. I remember Top Gear saying something about a live-rear axle on a 2006 'Stang. Cars can't be that simple.

To bad IRS isn't the end all of good handling. There are tons of live rear axle cars that handle well like the Boss 302. It is that simple for a reason it was to keep the cost down. That is the WHOLE POINT of the Mustang inexpensive fun/speed. SVT developed a IRS for the GT500 but that was canceled due to the fact it would add $5k to the price of the car.

I don't think anyone was a fan of the Mustang II. There was little that could redeem that mess of a car.

I am as well good memories of growing up in the early '80s in these cars. They are fun cars and for the time not that bad. HP isn't everything. They were lightyears ahead in just about everything but HP from the GM Fbody rivals (which were little changed since '70) The IIs sales were great to be honest.

 

[Slash]

The II's sold more than every Mustang to date except the original that ran from 1964 to 1966, and only barely didn't catch up. People can say what they want about the II, but I've nothing but positive experiences with them.

 

[xXKingJoshXx]

@xXKingJoshXx, The AE86 didn't have a live axle. It was a beam axle but it had an open differential.

I don't know much about the AE86 or differences in axles, but this is what Wikipedia says:

The car was equipped with a MacPherson strut style independent suspension at the front and a four-link live axle with coil springs for the rear. Stabilizer bars were present at both ends.

No one I've seen talking about the AE86 has said anything about it not having a LRA, and a beam axle and LRA are very similar anyways.


And about LRA being unacceptable on a performance car, here's a few videos that show that isn't always the case...

 

[Slash]

For street use, I couldn't give a crap what type of rear end a car had in it. I've experienced all different kinds of drivetrains and setups and for the street I've always felt that FR with a LRA in the back felt the best.

 

[Jet Badger]

Live axle = a beam axle with no diff. It makes a very big difference in the handling.

Wkipedia also says

• Differential: 6.7" Open (T282) or optional LSD (USA Only) (T283) with 4.30:1 Ratio, 2-pinion

So apparently the writer of that section of the article couldn't decide. Hint: it didn't have a live axle. That Mustang you posted doesn't have a live rear axle either, it has a beam axle with an LSD, just unlike in regular Mustangs, the LSD isn't in the drivers pocket.

 

[Slash]

How many have you actually worked on? And worked on I mean totally torn down and rebuilt? Limited slip and open are the way the gears are setup inside the differential housing...and you can lock an open with a little welding, so you wouldn't have to buy a locker. At the same time you can swap them out for something like posi-traction which is a type of limited slip, as is Ford/Dana's Trac-lok.

This is a perfect example of an open differential setup, aka one tire fire.

Mustangs have always had live axles. Always.

 

[xXKingJoshXx]

@Jet Badger, Well like I said earlier, I don't know much about differences in axles, but if the Mustang has a beam axle and not a LRA, why does everyone say that the Mustang has a LRA? Everyone I've heard talking about the AE86 has commented on it's LRA, as well. I just don't see how that many people could be wrong about something so simple...

 

[Slash]

Because the Mustang never had a beam axle.


This is what's known as a twist beam axle. It is very much different from the below as you will it's nothing but a solid piece of steel tubing with shocks on it and no guts. My minivan has one of these on the back as it's a FWD car.

Most Mustangs have had some variation of the below, which is the Ford 9". There was also 8.8" used as well as others. This one looks to have staggerd shocks. The 9" was used in a ton of vehciles for a long time, such as trucks and cars. It's known as one of the strongest axles you can get. The axle you got in a Mustang was very much dependant on what you ordered in the rest of the car. I could go on forever about that. Order this engine and get this gear ratio with these types of shocks and posi-traction. Order that engine and get an open rear end and non-staggered shocks with highway gears.

I don't know about you but I see a lot of differences but that's also coming from expereince with them. Between axles shafts, seals, bearings, c clips, ring gear, spider gears, pinion and u joints....quite a difference I'd say. And this is only one of the many rear ends used.

 

[Badasp5.0]

Live axle = a beam axle with no diff. It makes a very big difference in the handling.

Wkipedia also says
So apparently the writer of that section of the article couldn't decide. Hint: it didn't have a live axle. That Mustang you posted doesn't have a live rear axle either, it has a beam axle with an LSD, just unlike in regular Mustangs, the LSD isn't in the drivers pocket.

I was under the impression that live axle as a name is interchangeable with a solid rear axle.

 

[xXKingJoshXx]

I was under the impression that live axle as a name is interchangeable with a solid rear axle.

Yep.

A live axle, sometimes called a solid axle, is a type of beam axle suspension system that uses the drive shafts that transmit power to the wheels to connect the wheels laterally so that they move together as a unit.

 

[Slash]

I was under the impression that live axle as a name is interchangeable with a solid rear axle.

It is.

In fact the only thing I'd really call a true live axle is something off an ATV since there's no differential, only a sprocket and axle. Then again it's really no different than driving with a locked differential, as there would be massive amounts of wheel hop around corners.

Hence why most cars don't use lockers except for offroad.

 

[Jet Badger]

What we call a live axle is a powered solid/beam axle without a functioning diff (either welded or with none from the factory) and where the both drive wheels are always traveling at the same speed. Examples are gokarts, most quads etc. A powered solid/beam axle that has a feature of any sort that enables the wheels to rotate at different speeds is referred to as just a beam/solid axle.

Yep.

The key words being "<...>that transmit power to the wheels to connect the wheels laterally so that they move together as a unit".

 

[Slash]

Except 99% of the people just call it limited slip vs locker....not live vs powered. That just sounds stupid. It's decided based on the gear system in the differential housing.

 

[Badasp5.0]

Except 99% of the people just call it limited slip vs locker....not live vs powered. That just sounds stupid. It's decided based on the gear system in the differential housing.

THIS. I have been working on and around cars for over 15 years now and have never heard anyone refer to as live vs powered.

 

[Slash]

I haven't either, in fact it kind of confused me for a moment

 

[Jet Badger]

And I always thought that people from overseas calling an axle a "live axle" meant that it had no diff. I guess the term is used differently in different places of the world 👍

 

[Slash]

And I always thought that people from overseas calling an axle a "live axle" meant that it had no diff. I guess the term is used differently in different places of the world 👍

This kind of reminds me of a conversation I had with someone on the forum the other day about how terms differ depending on where you are in the world. 👍

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

Well, I learned about yet another Ford today sold in Asia, parts of Africa, & parts of South America called the "Laser". It also clears up the mystery for me of why the North American Ford Escorts were so different than the Euro Escorts.

Anyway, this specific variant of the Laser caught my eye from the WYR thread; it's a 1985 Ford Laser TX3 Turbo.

The look reminds me of the Honda CR-X sold around this time. Anyway, what's cool is that I've learned that these came in AWD and had 140hp. It sounds like a quick, little hatchback.

 

[Slash]

As did I. Never knew about that.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

Oh, I made an error, that gen of the laser had 140hp, it was the laser of the early 90s that had 180hp. Oh well, 140hp is still quick for a car that small.