2014 engines: inline-fours out, turbo-charged V6 engines in
- Thread starter prisonermonkeys
- 630 comments
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- 71
- SUBSALLOR
- Justice_Strikes
Ahh, I love when someone blows a turbo
Edit: can someone tell me what they mean by "compound turbos" ?
Compound turbos are two different sized turbos working in series (one feeds another.) The idea aims to bypass the shortcomings of each turbo respectively.
I think this thread should be retitled 2014 now.
Anyway I'm reading the official F1 news today talking about the new rules.
Some points interest me, they are saying because the fuel flow restrictions are the same the V6 will not use more fuel than the I4 and similarly the 15,000rpm will not use any more fuel than 12,000rpm. This means with the same engineering surely the power the new engines make will be a lot less than if they were 4cyl at 12,000rpm? As a lot more energy is wasted in the engine itself. The FIA admits this is true by saying the engineers have a much harder task in making the engines more efficient than the original rules required to get the same power as the 4cyl/12,000rpm engines. The extra 3,000rpm will give them the power they need to compensate for the power loss, but then they need to use new materials and design to use less energy in the internals. SO this rule revision is going to cost teams a lot more in development I'm guessing, I thought the teams didn't want to spend more money? Those extra 2cyls must be worth a lot to the teams in terms of their road car business, apart from Renault who objected.
FIA said this:
"..five manufacturers were working on the proposed four-cylinder engine. They will all need to adapt their project and this will surely involve some additional costs, depending on how advanced each project was. This evolution has been proposed and supported by all four engine manufacturers currently involved in Formula One."
The delay from 2013 to 2014 is because of the change from I4 to V6, and to make the engines last 4000km.
Anyway I'm reading the official F1 news today talking about the new rules.
Some points interest me, they are saying because the fuel flow restrictions are the same the V6 will not use more fuel than the I4 and similarly the 15,000rpm will not use any more fuel than 12,000rpm. This means with the same engineering surely the power the new engines make will be a lot less than if they were 4cyl at 12,000rpm? As a lot more energy is wasted in the engine itself. The FIA admits this is true by saying the engineers have a much harder task in making the engines more efficient than the original rules required to get the same power as the 4cyl/12,000rpm engines. The extra 3,000rpm will give them the power they need to compensate for the power loss, but then they need to use new materials and design to use less energy in the internals. SO this rule revision is going to cost teams a lot more in development I'm guessing, I thought the teams didn't want to spend more money? Those extra 2cyls must be worth a lot to the teams in terms of their road car business, apart from Renault who objected.
FIA said this:
"..five manufacturers were working on the proposed four-cylinder engine. They will all need to adapt their project and this will surely involve some additional costs, depending on how advanced each project was. This evolution has been proposed and supported by all four engine manufacturers currently involved in Formula One."
The delay from 2013 to 2014 is because of the change from I4 to V6, and to make the engines last 4000km.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Well, Renault - the team, at least - are cool with it. And based on the FIA's statement, so too is the manufacturer. Apparently Renault weren't the only ones pushing for I4s; Audi were interested, too. With Porsche announcing their return to Le Mans from 2014, and VAG's policy of not having their marques directly compete with one another, maybe Audi might like the V6s.
- 11,985
- Australia
- I_Grayson_Fox_I
I can understand to make the sport greenier but, why don't the fix the calender first?
Do all races within that continent then move to the next.
Eg Do all European races, then asian, then australia, then south america, then north america.
I don't care what the engine sounds like, I watch the sport for the action.
And on a side note: I like the sound of the 70's style F1 which is a deeper sound rather than a high pitched squeal.
Do all races within that continent then move to the next.
Eg Do all European races, then asian, then australia, then south america, then north america.
I don't care what the engine sounds like, I watch the sport for the action.
And on a side note: I like the sound of the 70's style F1 which is a deeper sound rather than a high pitched squeal.
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- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Because in areas where there are two races close together - like Malaysia and Singapore Grands Prix often consider themselves to be in direct competition with one another. And then you get venues who pay extra to be the opening and closing rounds in the championship.
Besides, the purpose of making greener engines is for the technology to find its way into road cars. Changing the calendar won't do that.
- 2,938
- Shrewsbury
- pezzarinho17
Plus you wouldn't want a GP to fall outside of summer (which in Britain lasts a week anyway), imagine Canada in September because it meant getting there before the Asian flyaway races.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Something interesting I've noticed:
Porsche are entering Le Mans in 2014, when the current development cycle of the Audi R18 TDI ends. The R18 will have had a considerably shorter lifespan than its predecessors (except the R15, but that was cut short by the 2011 regulations).
At the same time, they were very interested in inline-four engines. V6s may be less appealing to them - they want the engines to be relevant to their road cars, but they can certainly use fuel-efficient V6s in their higher-end models - but they've clearly been interested in Formula 1 since they and Renault were able to keep the idea of inline-fours alive. But now, the new engines come into effect just as Audi's Le Mans campaign ends.
Coincidence?
Porsche are entering Le Mans in 2014, when the current development cycle of the Audi R18 TDI ends. The R18 will have had a considerably shorter lifespan than its predecessors (except the R15, but that was cut short by the 2011 regulations).
At the same time, they were very interested in inline-four engines. V6s may be less appealing to them - they want the engines to be relevant to their road cars, but they can certainly use fuel-efficient V6s in their higher-end models - but they've clearly been interested in Formula 1 since they and Renault were able to keep the idea of inline-fours alive. But now, the new engines come into effect just as Audi's Le Mans campaign ends.
Coincidence?
- 10,373
- Manchester
- Ardius_
Though I will point out (before anyone suggests it) that Audi don't currently design and produce their LMP cars - they are made by Dallara - so Audi (or VAG) are most likely to come in as engine suppliers only or to buy into an existing team like Toro Rosso (Red Bull-VW F3 engine links?) or Williams (Flywheel KERS + Hybrid links with Porsche).
Audi don't spend huge amounts of money (or not huge compared to F1) on LMP1 so I can't see them suddenly stumping up a huge F1 budget out of nowhere for a team. It has to be engine supply only that interests them.
Audi don't spend huge amounts of money (or not huge compared to F1) on LMP1 so I can't see them suddenly stumping up a huge F1 budget out of nowhere for a team. It has to be engine supply only that interests them.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
That's what I figured it would be. They've also got a connection to Hispania through Colin Kolles, who was running Audis in DTM. There was the suggestion that VAG would discreetly fund Hispania to keep them on the grid until the new engine regulations came in so that they could then buy the full team and spare themselves the trouble of going through the entry bid system.
- 10,373
- Manchester
- Ardius_
I'm not sure VAG will want to fully own and run a team unless they make the team rely on their own steam rather than bankroll it (which is pointless - most teams will tell them to bog off if they aren't going to bring money). They might be helping Hispania but I would be surprised if its much money, I really can't see them wanting to spend more than they have with LMP - this is what Dr Ullrich has suggested anyway. Perhaps I'm completely wrong and VAG are prepared to go all guns blazing, Toyota style.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
The above scenario also allows VAG to do it in such a way that they buy into the team rather than buying it outright. All they have to do is keep the team running until 2014. Then, they buy in and make Audi engines available, and sponsors should be lining up, hat in hand. It's like teams writing up a contract that gives them the right to make a driver the first offer when it comes time to re-negotiate. But in this case, it establishes a relationship and gives VAG the option to increase their involvement - and their exposure - in a team.
- 14,061
- Ireland
- driftking18594
- CiaranGTR94
I would love to see the VW Group enter F1, maybe using the Porsche brand.
Of course, this is the same guy who wants the Renault team to be branded as Nissan. Simply so Nissan can call their turbo V6 the "VR16DET" in a reference to the beast powering the GT-R R35.
Of course, this is the same guy who wants the Renault team to be branded as Nissan. Simply so Nissan can call their turbo V6 the "VR16DET" in a reference to the beast powering the GT-R R35.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Well, my "VAG are discreetly funding Hispania to hold a grid position until 2014" theory (it needs a better name) looks like it's falling to pieces: according to Joe's Award for Hack Journalism, the team is being sold to Nomura, a Japanese bank. I know I think little of Joe Saward, but we'll find out if there is any truth to this claim some time later tonight.
- 7,177
- Lisboa
- FLAT_TWELVE
2014 regs (I guess it's a preliminary version) published by the FIA
LINK
Electrical powered F1 cars while in the pit lane
and the driver must be able to start the engine by himself. I didn't do a full read but I wonder if the drivers will need to shut down the engine on pit entry, should make for quieter pits LOL
LINK
Electrical powered F1 cars while in the pit lane
and the driver must be able to start the engine by himself. I didn't do a full read but I wonder if the drivers will need to shut down the engine on pit entry, should make for quieter pits LOL
- 746
Since F1 cars can be push started im guessing the electric runing on the pits will be no biggie2014 regs (I guess it's a preliminary version) published by the FIA
LINK
Electrical powered F1 cars while in the pit lane
- 392
- BEST KOREA
- SaberFire89
- SaberFire89
An onboard starter probably means they've made moves to stop the aerodynamic effect of the starter hole in the diffuser.
Not looking too forward to these regulations at the moment. From the looks of it, the engine has specified mount-points? Going to make packaging very uniform across the board.
Not looking too forward to these regulations at the moment. From the looks of it, the engine has specified mount-points? Going to make packaging very uniform across the board.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Actually, the drivers get to change their ratios once during the season. I wonder how many drivers are going to suddenly change after Monaco ... ?
Was great to hear him talking. Same power over 3k+ rpm band. Opposite of peaky engines of today. Also driver will have boost control, so as well as kers they will have a turbo boost button for overtaking. But this won't be a boost over standard power as fuel rate is controlled. What the cars I guess will be doing is running light on fuel as they do currently,maybe even more so than now, and for some cases they can boost turbo and using full fuel rate and get a power increase for overtakes. Or they may electronically sync it to kers so it's just one button press for various points in the lap. Plenty or scope for strategy here, exciting.
- 150
- Auckland
Why different definitions? I'm pretty sure it works like normal turbos, except instead of spinning a fan to compress the air, it spins a shaft which is connected directly to the crankshaft or gearbox. Sorry if that's what you meant interludes, it's just that your definition didn't really differentiate between a normal turbo and compund turbo.
- 302
Close to zero, as it's also an important safety structure.
The bodywork changes to 2014 are small:
The bodywork changes to 2014 are small:
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Except that the 2014 regulations will be influenced by the 2012 and 2013 changes.
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