2014 engines: inline-fours out, turbo-charged V6 engines in

[Ardius]

Rory Byrne and Patrick Head proposed them in December 2010 for inclusion with the next set of engine regulations (which at the time were going to come into effect in 2013), but when the proposal was formally put to the teams, they rejected it. I believe they felt that the engine and powertrain regulations were already very complex and would provide significant challenges, so they felt that trying to work ground effects into the cars would be too much. After all, the last time there were significant revisions to the technical regulations - in 2009 - the running order was completely turned on its head. Where McLaren, Ferrari, BMW and Renault placed in the top four in 2008, by the end of 2009 they were third, fourth, sixth and eighth. The teams will keen to avoid a repeat of such an episode.

More like the teams feared the fact they have little knowledge about ground effects these days and that they would be spending significant amounts of money developing designs which could potentially be terrible. They'd rather stick to wing and floor-based aerodynamics where there is less chance of making a significant mistake.
Major rule changes always benefit some teams over others as they inevitably get their designs more right than others. The smaller the rule changes, the less the designers have to invent themselves and less time is dropped going down the wrong design path.

Its very disappointing that the teams don't feel its necessary to make these design changes as they were intended to help make the cars better at following through corners and hence creating better overtaking chances. Instead they prefer to rely on the cheap DRS system which generally provides a stop-gap solution which produces cheap overtakes but doesn't solve the original problem. Losing the quality in overtaking is the worst part of it all. To me DRS is basically trading quality overtakes for quantity of overtakes.

 

[Liquid]

More talk that the Volkswagen Group could enter Formula 1 soon, possibly starting as an engine supplier before stepping up to a works team.

Under what guise would VW be in F1? I've heard unsubstantiated rumours that both Porsche and Audi are entering F1 as engine suppliers.

 

[Paulie Walnuts]

I would count Porsche out unless they cancel their Le Mans 2014 announcement.

 

[hawkeye122]

Maybe Audi? I see them lingering on, trying to beat the Porsche record at Le Mans, and then after 3 years dropping out of that and going on to try and conquer F1.

 

[Liquid]

Audi/Porsche/Volkswagen = Same parent company.

Mildly interested in how that pans out.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I've heard unsubstantiated rumours that both Porsche and Audi are entering F1 as engine suppliers.

They won't. VW has a policy of not letting their marques compete against one another. If ever two manufacturers from the Volkswagen Group do race against one another, then they do so without factory support.

I'm betting that if VAG do enter Formula 1, then it will be under the Bugatti or Bentley name. The reason for this is that every marque under the VAG group umbrella already competes (or will compete) in an international motorsport series. Porsche will race at Le Mans. Audi is withdrawing from Le Mans, but has a DTM program. VW is preparing the Polo R for the WRC. Skoda run in the IRC (and has a stand-in WRC program until the Polo is ready). Lamborghini competes in GT racing. SEAT has entries in the WTCC. Some of these have works support; others do not - but they all have two things in common, and that is that they race in one series each, and they do not race against one another. All things considered, that leaves Bugatti and Bentley as the only makes in the VAG family without a motorsport program. So unless VW decide to shuffle their programs around to place Audi in Formula 1, or decide to break this unofficial rule and enter the sport themselves, I'm guessing we could see Bugatti or Bentley - probably the former - enter the sport as an engine supplier, possibly just rebranding PURE engines until their own is ready.

 

[Northstar]

Audi is withdrawing from Le Mans,

Source?

Edit: Audi and Porsche were both in the GT class at Daytona as well, so....

 

[Liquid]

Well I'd love to see a Scania engine in F1...

And I doubt Seat has that 'market appeal' as a brand name for some F1 engines (!)

I'm betting that if VAG do enter Formula 1, then it will be under the Bugatti or Bentley name

Cue Veyron Fever II.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Source?

Not on me at the moment, but it was announced a few months ago - Audi are withdrawing and Porsche are entering. Cynics suggest that this is because Porsche does not want Audi to threaten their Le Mans record.

Audi and Porsche were both in the GT class at Daytona as well, so.

Daytona gets very little coverage outside the United States compared to the other series that the VAG manufacturers compete in.

 

[Northstar]

but it was announced a few months ago

So where is this supposed announcement than?

Daytona gets very little coverage outside the United States compared to the other series that the VAG manufacturers compete in.

I don't see what viewer numbers have to do with anything that you said

but they all have two things in common, and that is that they race in one series each, and they do not race against one another.

I will humor you though, is the Nurburgring 24 bigger than Daytona?

Or Spa.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

So where is this supposed announcement than?

It's out there. You can go and find it.

I don't see what viewer numbers have to do with anything that you said

It has everything to do with what I said - because Daytona doesn't really ge exposure outside America, it's not really on the same level as something like the WTCC or Formula 1.

I will humor you though, is the Nurburgring 24 bigger than Daytona?

The Nurburgring 24hr is one race, not a series. VAG don't care as much about their marques competing against one another.

You'er also not really differentiating between entries. If I want to the Nurburging with an R8, but VW are officially supporting one of their other marques, then that doesn't matter. I can enter the R8 regardless; I just won't get factory support. They just don't want factory teams competing with one another in international championships.

 

[Northstar]

It's out there. You can go and find it.

You are a former moderator, I really didn't expect you to do the old "make a claim and tell me to prove it" routine that some people do when they make false claims.

YOU made the claim, YOU prove it.

It has everything to do with what I said - because Daytona doesn't really ge exposure outside America, it's not really on the same level as something like the WTCC or Formula 1.

Daytona may not be as big, but they still spent factory money on both marques for the event.

The Nurburgring 24hr is one race, not a series. VAG don't care as much about their marques competing against one another.

So why would Le Mans be any different, it's only 1 race after all.

(I'm aware Le Mans is a part of the WEC, just like Nurburgring is part of the VLN)

You'er also not really differentiating between entries. If I want to the Nurburging with an R8, but VW are officially supporting one of their other marques, then that doesn't matter. I can enter the R8 regardless; I just won't get factory support. They just don't want factory teams competing with one another in international championships.

Funny, because this also goes against what you have said.

Some of these have works support; others do not

 

[hawkeye122]

Audi/Porsche/Volkswagen = Same parent company.

Mildly interested in how that pans out.

We know that. Were wondering which brand VW would badge the engine if they ran in F1. Obviously, as mentioned above, a Scania or Seat badge would be pretty stupid.

 

[jcm]

We're discussing what name they'll use and we still have no idea whether or not they'll even actually be in F1. Don't take it too seriously yet. No need for personal arguments.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

You are a former moderator, I really didn't expect you to do the old "make a claim and tell me to prove it" routine that some people do when they make false claims.

Except that I have a reputation around here for accuracy in what I post. If I'm a little tied up at the moment and don't have the time to go sifting through a year's worth of reports on a site - Autosport - that I do not have a subscription to (which is needed for viewing any stories that are older than one month). So pardon me if I thought my reputation might qualify me for a recognition in good faith. I just didn't realise I'd be arguing with someone who clearly thinks that the Daytona and Nurburgring races are much more important than they really are.

Daytona may not be as big, but they still spent factory money on both marques for the event.

What do you not understand? Daytona is not a series! It is one race in a series that visits two countries. Volkswagen's policy stops their marques from competing against one another with works support in international series like the World Endurance Championship (which visits seven countries), or the World Touring Car Championship (which visits twelve), or Formula 1 (which visits nineteen).

So why would Le Mans be any different, it's only 1 race after all.

Because they do recognise Le Mans. This is their policy, which they enforce as they like. and they evidently feel that the Le Mans 24 Hours is a bigger race than the Nurburgring or Daytona, and therefore, they do not want their brands competing against one another.

Funny, because this also goes against what you have said.

Nevertheless, you will notice that there is still only one VAG marque in each of those series - even the ones where VAG do not provide works backing - because they consider each of those series to be bigger and more important than Daytona or the Nurburgring. If they support Audis and Porsches at Daytona and one beats the other, they don't care. But if they supported Audis and Porsches in the same category at Le Mans, the loser would suffer for it.

 

[jcm]

Well put Prisonermonkeys. This probably isn't the right thread though. Just my opinion.

 

[Northstar]

So pardon me if I thought my reputation might qualify me for a recognition in good faith.

All I will say, is it's not.

This is off topic anyways, let me know if you ever do find it, guessing if it were true though this wouldn't be the first time I would have heard about it.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

All I will say, is it's not.

Correction: it's not to you.

 

[Northstar]

Correction: it's not to you.

All I did was ask for a link for something you(not me) claimed.

You, being a former mod and all should be familiar with a thing called the AUP.

You will not knowingly post any material that is false, misleading, or inaccurate.

Kind of applies to this whole situation. Perhaps if you didn't have time to dig it up you shouldn't have said it in the first place.

I apologise if I offended you by questioning you and your almighty wisdom.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Kind of applies to this whole situation. Perhaps if you didn't have time to dig it up you shouldn't have said it in the first place.

The AUP says this:

AUP
You will not knowingly post any material that is false, misleading, or inaccurate.

I know what I claimed to be true. It appeared in a reliable, accurate publication and I have no reason to doubt it. It is not false, misleading or innacurate in any way, shape or form - and my inability to produce that source on demand does not automatically make what I posted false, misleading or innacurate. At all.

 

[Northstar]

The AUP says this:

I know what I claimed to be true. It appeared in a reliable, accurate publication and I have no reason to doubt it. It is not false, misleading or innacurate in any way, shape or form - and my inability to produce that source on demand does not automatically make what I posted false, misleading or innacurate. At all.

Than why can't I find it?

I decided to be nice and google it, came up completely empty, all I could find was articles about Peugeot. Surely if it were true it would have spread like Peugeot did.

I also didn't say it had to be right that second.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Than why can't I find it?

Because you're evidently not trying hard enough.

 

[Northstar]

Because you're evidently not trying hard enough.

Funny as every article(on the first page at least) seems to say Audi is staying.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Well, you said it yourself - you only read the first page. I bet it didn't occur to you to refine your searches and keep looking. Or did you just assume that I'd give you everything you demanded after accusing me of knowingly posting false information simply because I couldn't produce an article on demand?

Let me get this absolutely crystal clear right now: I don't think much of you right now. I never have, really. But you've called into question my reputation, accused me of knowingly breaking the forum rules and twisted my words. And why? Because you disagree with my statement that the Daytona 24 Hour is not a significant motorsport event. Well, it's not me you should be worried about - VW's policy of not letting works-supported teams compete against each other in major international motorsport series is well-documented because they don't want one brand doing damage to another by beating it. And if they're offering works support to two marques at Daytona, then that can only mean one thing: that they don't care enough for Daytona to be concerned about the damage that one car beating another will do.

And after all that, you're just expecting me to offer up everything I have to satisfy your demands? You insulted me, and I'm not in the habit of catering to the whims of people who insult me.

 

[Northstar]

Well, you said it yourself - you only read the first page. I bet it didn't occur to you to refine your searches and keep looking. Or did you just assume that I'd give you everything you demanded after accusing me of knowingly posting false information simply because I couldn't produce an article on demand?

All I did was ask for a link, you responded it was an announcement, I asked if you could post the announcement(I'll admit I could have worded it better) than you told me to find it myself.

Sorry if I read that as a tad suspicious.

I don't think much of you right now. I never have, really.

The feeling is mutual.

 

[jcm]

Is Road & Track a respected publication? I don't actually know, all I know is that they are a magazine which I have been subscribed to (It was incredibly cheap)

 

[Paulie Walnuts]

Not on me at the moment, but it was announced a few months ago - Audi are withdrawing and Porsche are entering.

Speculation or a rumor in a magazine or in other publication is not an announcement.

Those and confusing comments from Bentley aside, all there is is the press release from Porsche and a statement from Audi Sport.

 

[hawkeye122]

Basically noone knows, and there are no sources. Surprise...

 

[Bobert power]

Vettel will use anyones car.

+1 if you listen to vettels radio after finishing 4th in the 2007 Chinese GP. He sounds like he is 5 yrs old and really sounds immature.

 

[Alex.]

+1 if you listen to vettels radio after finishing 4th in the 2007 Chinese GP. He sounds like he is 5 yrs old and really sounds immature.

100,000x better than "Good job guys, we deserve it"