2014 United Sports Car Championship

[AnthonyD1993]

According to John Potter (owner of Magnus Racing), the PC issue is that they lack power on the straights and only make time in the corners which causes most of the iffy driving in corners. Its on page 2 specifically, and while I'm not the first person to link one of these four articles, these are really good reads.
http://www.racer.com/imsa/item/105407-imsa-state-of-the-gt-daytona-union?showall=&limitstart=

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Get Varsha out of the booth. He belongs in F1. Get Diffey back, and the broadcast will pick up.

I really liked what was said about how they need to cut classes down. Get rid of PC now.

It seems like the same things are still being said now that were said a year ago. I hope the budgets can be contained more, or else we've got no chance of a decent Prototype grid going forward.

Shank was on the money about penalties as well. Penalize enough of the wrong people, and you run people off

Still positive though. Not going to sit here and be negative like some people. It's moving right along well

And I see @RACECAR beat me too it? What year did you start watching Sportscar racing.

 

[cnd01]

That's not happening with Diffey in a multi-year deal with NBC. Never saw anything wrong with Bob Varsha calling the Sports car races, he's done it for a while and way before he started doing F1.

Didn't say that it was gonna happen. I like Diffey better than Varsha for F1 too. Just my 2c. I've never liked Varsha for sports cars. He always has sounded uninterested and bland to me. If you or anyone else think differently, that's fine.

 

[IforceV8]

After visiting Shank Racing's website its clear to see why his comments feel like a guy trapped in the Grand-Am past,click on about-team profile. http://www.michaelshankracing.com/

 

[Furinkazen]

http://www.racer.com/more/viewpoints/item/105571-pruett-time-to-rethink-imsa-s-safety-team

Perhaps the most important issue facing the USCR. Not DP vs P2 , GTE endplates, but safety.

 

[GTPorsche]

I find no flaws with that article. I had no idea the ALMS safety crews were gone from the series, but that explains why at least 3 cars have burned completely this year, and the lengthy FCYs.

I don't see this merger lasting too long at this rate.

 

[01GTP]

Here are the other "State of" articles.

http://www.racer.com/imsa/item/105559-imsa-state-of-the-union-prototype

http://www.racer.com/imsa/item/105502-imsa-imsa-state-of-the-union-gtlm

http://www.racer.com/imsa/item/105433-imsa-state-of-the-pc-union


After reading these articles it looks as though TV (marketing) is important.


It's a great idea to hear from people in the industry and publish it to the public.
Two quotes I really agree with here.

4: What are the main series-wide items that would benefit from changes for 2015, and what solutions would improve or correct those items?

Eric Ingraham, Team Manager, Flying Lizard Motorsports
I think that the TV package can continue to improve and we can and will see more and more benefit from our association with NASCAR at the parent level.

John Potter, Owner, Magnus Racing
On the marketing and presentation side, there are several struggles that may not have an easy cure. The television package has been difficult in particular. The ALMS had several years to prove that a live webstream provided the data and marketing potential to market to sponsors, but I’ve yet to see anything from that. Let’s face it, what fuels sports car racing is a funded OEM effort, or private wealth (be it from a team owner or funded driver)
In other words, this sport is driven by either an OEM exercise or personal fun / vanity. We need to feed into that as a series, and that doesn’t come from saying we’re on a website or a cable channel you’ve never heard of. The “call home” before a race is possibly the most important call for many of the people who actually fund the sport, and it’s tough to then tell your family “oh, you probably don’t have that channel.”
If this is to be perceived as a top level of motorsport, commanding top dollar, everything needs to reflect that. Having said that, it’s not an easy solution to just “appear” on a major network when the series has questionable ratings, especially for a long endurance race, but again, this is where transparency comes in. We have no idea where the decisions to be on this channel vs. this webstream come from. Maybe GTPlanet member LMSCorvetteGT2 does? I’d definitely be a lot more sympathetic if I knew that “x contract” was already in place due to something out of our control, or “we would need ‘y’ amount of money” to appear on a major cable network. Again, everyone here wants to participate and perhaps there’s ways we can all help if we’re in on the problem.
The criticisms by some media and fans of “NASCAR ruining it” is completely unfounded, and not helping the conversation. Complaining that NASCAR has ruined sports car is on par with complaining that your favorite indie band signed with a major label. A successful business enterprise is investing their resources into an entity that’s not as successful, and I fail to see how that’s a bad thing. There have undoubtedly been some bumps along the road, but if you look at the personalities involved, very few of them were “from NASCAR.” Meanwhile, all those accusations do is polarize the NASCAR audience and NASCAR sponsors from ever looking at our sport.

 

[IforceV8]

More on safety teams http://sportscar365.com/imsa/tusc/teams-push-for-return-of-imsa-safety-team/

The GTLM factory backed teams have the power to change this. I cant understand why a company like GM who is killing its customers daily with unsafe cars and endless recalls wouldnt be proactive with its multi million dollar C7 investment and drivers.If the teams really want the ALMS safety team back they will simply park the transporters at the track and leave the trailer locked.

 

[cnd01]

I find no flaws with that article. I had no idea the ALMS safety crews were gone from the series, but that explains why at least 3 cars have burned completely this year, and the lengthy FCYs.

I don't see this merger lasting too long at this rate.

It hasn't considering it's a buyout and not a merger

Why the IMSA safety crew isn't here is beyond me. Decisions like this are what happens when you have people who have never owned a race team calling the shots

 

[hawkeye122]

IMSA safety team should be the standard for all "Pro" race series, but I digress.

I'm not sure what I'm more annoyed by- Mike Shank throwing a fit (Some of it, rightfully so) or Scott Sharp being a bland PR guy and not saying anything.

CTMP race was a bit of a joke. Everyone knew that, barring a crash, the Oak Morgan-Nissan was going to walk away into the distance. There should have been MUCH more GT coverage, either class. The number of commercials was outrageous.

Personally, I think PC was a great class. They put it in to fill grids, and it provided pretty exciting racing. You've got a field full of pros duking it out for Quali, and then starting the race, getting their gaps, handing off to the Am guys for a while, and then back to the pros who drive like hell to the finish. The racing was close, in person the cars sounded awesome, it was just great.
Now, they have to compete with GTD cars (Quicker than Cup Porsches were) and there's quite a few more cars on track(Went from low 30's to high 40's). Add all that to the tight confines of places like Road America or similar no-run-off tracks, and they've got nowhere to go.
Sadly, the PC class is the class which makes the most sense financially, even with the parts spend. It's a tough spot for sure.
With no pro-am requirement in the P class, it's hard to convince everyone to switch to that package. Even the cheapest option, buying an Oreca 03-Judd is substantially more expensive than the PC car. I can see the argument for getting rid of them though- maybe if they tried to reign in the driving standards a bit they would be better off.

 

[cnd01]

IMSA safety team should be the standard for all "Pro" race series, but I digress.

I'm not sure what I'm more annoyed by- Mike Shank throwing a fit (Some of it, rightfully so) or Scott Sharp being a bland PR guy and not saying anything.

CTMP race was a bit of a joke. Everyone knew that, barring a crash, the Oak Morgan-Nissan was going to walk away into the distance. There should have been MUCH more GT coverage, either class. The number of commercials was outrageous.

Personally, I think PC was a great class. They put it in to fill grids, and it provided pretty exciting racing. You've got a field full of pros duking it out for Quali, and then starting the race, getting their gaps, handing off to the Am guys for a while, and then back to the pros who drive like hell to the finish. The racing was close, in person the cars sounded awesome, it was just great.
Now, they have to compete with GTD cars (Quicker than Cup Porsches were) and there's quite a few more cars on track(Went from low 30's to high 40's). Add all that to the tight confines of places like Road America or similar no-run-off tracks, and they've got nowhere to go.
Sadly, the PC class is the class which makes the most sense financially, even with the parts spend. It's a tough spot for sure.
With no pro-am requirement in the P class, it's hard to convince everyone to switch to that package. Even the cheapest option, buying an Oreca 03-Judd is substantially more expensive than the PC car. I can see the argument for getting rid of them though- maybe if they tried to reign in the driving standards a bit they would be better off.

As much as I liked PC before the start of the season for the same reasons you're stating, it's just in the way on the track. The spec needs a change if it's going to continue. GTE and GTD/3 specs are too close also. There needs to be a very clear performance difference between the cars as well as a visual difference. Same goes for P and PC. It's kinda hard to tell a LMP2 and a PC apart if you don't know the chassis. My solution is to make P all closed cockpit (which is happening) and leave PC open. For GT, either go full GT3 and just deal with the performance disparity between GT classes, or cut GTD down where it's not faster on the Andretti straight than some of the GTLM cars.

The whole budget issue in Prototype would have been no problem at all had LMP2 not been kept and regs for the BoP held off. I bet there would be 15+ prototype grids right now, but IMSA decided to please everyone and screw over the DP owners

 

[RACECAR]

Strangely, the only two DP owners I see still complaining are Mike Shank (shocker there) and Wayne Taylor.

 

[cnd01]

Strangely, the only two DP owners I see still complaining are Mike Shank (shocker there) and Wayne Taylor.

Troy Flis wasn't happy about the budget on SportsCarUnleased. Neither was Peter Baron. Considering the budget increase displaced about half the DP teams, it seems like it would be a common theme

 

[RACECAR]

Troy Flis wasn't happy about the budget on SportsCarUnleased. Neither was Peter Baron. Considering the budget increase displaced about half the DP teams, it seems like it would be a common theme

In this recent article, I only see Mike Shank and Wayne Taylor. I don't see Troy Flis nor Peter Baron in it.

 

[MrWednesday]

The Flis podcast at SCU was immediately after Watkins Glen, so it's reasonably current. (He was citing stuff from a different source from the article to show that dissatisfaction goes beyond just the guys quoted at racer.)

 

[hawkeye122]

The whole budget issue in Prototype would have been no problem at all had LMP2 not been kept and regs for the BoP held off. I bet there would be 15+ prototype grids right now, but IMSA decided to please everyone and screw over the DP owners

Running a P2 car isn't that much more than a DP, if at all.

Like it or not, even if they had axed LMP2, the DP's would've still needed the upgrades- Corvette and BMW would've been right up their backsides at more than a few tracks. As much as I hate participating in such arguments, it would've been a Michelin v Hoosier thing.
"Well BoP them back"
Ok, then we'd have to BoP GTD back down too. Not gonna work. They're having a hard enough time as it is.

Also keep in mind that most of that budget increase was more track time, which the P2 teams also had to sort out. I'm willing to bet their parts are more expensive (or used to be)

 

[aarror]

The whole budget issue in Prototype would have been no problem at all had LMP2 not been kept and regs for the BoP held off. I bet there would be 15+ prototype grids right now,

Not quite, the DPs would still have needed to be sped up, unless you wanted PC as the top class. Not to mention to provide a comfortable performance buffer between them and the GTLM cars, who would be very close on some tracks. We've seen this year with the PCs what problems it causes if the classes are too close in speed.

but IMSA decided to please nobody and screw over the everyone

Fixed

 

[cnd01]

Not quite, the DPs would still have needed to be sped up, unless you wanted PC as the top class. Not to mention to provide a comfortable performance buffer between them and the GTLM cars, who would be very close on some tracks. We've seen this year with the PCs what problems it causes if the classes are too close in speed.



Fixed

Who wants PC though?

All it would've taken to be faster than PC were the brakes and rear wing. That's way less cost to update. GTE isn't as close as everyone claims. ALMS GT averaged about 3 seconds slower than the DP if you don't count when Scott Mayer was in the car. Then you have a better series overall rather than 2 Prototype classes where 1 is impossible to get right and the other is the most bland prototype on the planet with guys that really shouldn't be driving more than likely.

It all goes back to IMSA management doing exactly what you fixed.

To @hawkeye122 quoting Peter Baron shortly after Starworks won the WEC LMP2 title "I'd avoid owning a P2 like it's the plague"

We all did know like hawkeye said that budgets were going to increase regardless because of the increased hours of racing by both series. Adding 22 hours to the Rolex schedule and 30 hours to the ALMS schedule certainly do add up.

 

[hawkeye122]

Who wants PC though?

All it would've taken to be faster than PC were the brakes and rear wing. That's way less cost to update. GTE isn't as close as everyone claims. ALMS GT averaged about 3 seconds slower than the DP if you don't count when Scott Mayer was in the car. Then you have a better series overall rather than 2 Prototype classes where 1 is impossible to get right and the other is the most bland prototype on the planet with guys that really shouldn't be driving more than likely.

It all goes back to IMSA management doing exactly what you fixed.

To @hawkeye122 quoting Peter Baron shortly after Starworks won the WEC LMP2 title "I'd avoid owning a P2 like it's the plague"

We all did know like hawkeye said that budgets were going to increase regardless because of the increased hours of racing by both series. Adding 22 hours to the Rolex schedule and 30 hours to the ALMS schedule certainly do add up.

Please provide context to the quote.
Additionally, he ran an HPD, which appears to have more problems than the other packages (See; Level 5)

*I* want PC. But with the number of cars we have it isn't practical.

And while GTE wouldn't have had the absolute advantage, they can make longer runs. It would've been interesting to say the least.

So we can agree that the budget isn't a DP-only issue? They may have need to pay for upgrades, but they also had subsidies from years before.

 

[cnd01]

Please provide context to the quote.
Additionally, he ran an HPD, which appears to have more problems than the other packages (See; Level 5)

*I* want PC. But with the number of cars we have it isn't practical.

And while GTE wouldn't have had the absolute advantage, they can make longer runs. It would've been interesting to say the least.

So we can agree that the budget isn't a DP-only issue? They may have need to pay for upgrades, but they also had subsidies from years before.

Baron's quote is mired in the SportsCarUnleashed podcast list. I can try to go through them and find it if you really want to hear it in the midst of a 20+ minute interview.

PC would have 15 cars minimum if it hadn't been grid capped.

Guys like Shank, Sahlens, Starworks, and SoD were running DP teams on a current IMSA PC budget, so I can see how they're a little sour about the budget increases. They're losing money as owners

 

[AnthonyD1993]

I wonder if PC would be less chaotic incident wise if the cars had a little more power and had only pro drivers. The LS3 should be able to reliably make more power since the 430 that it puts out is in stock form of the engine.

 

[cnd01]

I wonder if PC would be less chaotic incident wise if the cars had a little more power and had only pro drivers. The LS3 should be able to reliably make more power since the 430 that it puts out is in stock form of the engine.

Oh totally the L3 is so understressed one engine will last an entire season with no rebuilds from what I've heard. They could make those things have a little more power and make the problem better, but all the subtle moves IMSA has made regarding the PC class makes it seem like they're shoving it out the door

 

[AnthonyD1993]

Oh totally the L3 is so understressed one engine will last an entire season with no rebuilds from what I've heard. They could make those things have a little more power and make the problem better, but all the subtle moves IMSA has made regarding the PC class makes it seem like they're shoving it out the door

Which is kind of a shame since it would probably be one of the largest classes (if not the largest) if IMSA didn't cap the class. Plus it is one of the most popular classes for teams to try to run a full season with since it is the cheapest class. Now that I think about it, I think the issue with the FLM09 lies with Oreca leaving the LS3 alone. But since that is how the car is in all of the PC classes worldwide, I can't see them upping the power any time soon.

 

[cnd01]

Which is kind of a shame since it would probably be one of the largest classes (if not the largest) if IMSA didn't cap the class. Plus it is one of the most popular classes for teams to try to run a full season with since it is the cheapest class. Now that I think about it, I think the issue with the FLM09 lies with Oreca leaving the LS3 alone. But since that is how the car is in all of the PC classes worldwide, I can't see them upping the power any time soon.

I think the issue all stems from GTD being so quick in a straight line. On the Andretti straight at CTMP, the GTD Porsche was outrunning the GTLM Porsche with the GTLM Porsche in its tow. If GTD was slowed down a little, that should alleviate the issues there as well as with the PC carnage. Another 20-30 horsepower wouldn't hurt the PC cars at all either. Yea their engine budget would increase, but I don't think that it would be enough to cause mass exodus of the class like what we've seen with P so far

 

[AnthonyD1993]

The fact that three of the classes roughly trap at the same speed is a problem. How IMSA fixes that is beyond me, but I'd guess that speeding up PC would be the easiest way to solve one problem. The big question would be if IMSA would speed up GTLM or slow down GTD. I'm not sure which way to go, but I'd guess GTLM would get looked at since most of the power teams in class are factory backed and could easier absorb costs.

 

[cnd01]

The fact that three of the classes roughly trap at the same speed is a problem. How IMSA fixes that is beyond me, but I'd guess that speeding up PC would be the easiest way to solve one problem. The big question would be if IMSA would speed up GTLM or slow down GTD. I'm not sure which way to go, but I'd guess GTLM would get looked at since most of the power teams in class are factory backed and could easier absorb costs.

It's hard to mess with GTLM considering they're based on an overseas spec. My ideal situation would be to drop PC and GTLM totally and have Prototype with full GT3 being GT. All privateers and the awesome variety given by the DP/LMP2 which I would respec as well to make a single chassis type. That's a simple, 2 class series that would have affordable budgets and less confusion.

 

[hawkeye122]

Baron's quote is mired in the SportsCarUnleashed podcast list. I can try to go through them and find it if you really want to hear it in the midst of a 20+ minute interview.

PC would have 15 cars minimum if it hadn't been grid capped.

Guys like Shank, Sahlens, Starworks, and SoD were running DP teams on a current IMSA PC budget, so I can see how they're a little sour about the budget increases. They're losing money as owners

Then I take what you said with little impact. I think you get it.

I know they would. Low cost? TV exposure? Sign me up.

I'd like to see some hard data on that. PC's need almost no replacement parts over an entire season. Brake pads, and whatever bodywork you jack up.
Even if that was the case, that means the cost of running per hour hasn't gone up (Unless you factor the initial investment of the upgrade). They did, however, stop receiving checks. And if they're complaining about running costs now, that means their business wasn't exactly sound without the subsidy. Which is fine, but I'm sure they knew where their bottom line was. It's not a "Anti-DP" thing, it's a bad business thing.

The P2 teams got by without subsidy, but they were bankrolled by their backers who participated in the team (Ed Brown, Scott Tucker, Greg Pickett). Dyson may have had a business case, being involved with Thereford, Mazda, Racer Magazine, etc. Conquest Endurance was making it work, but their pro driver wasn't paid and Oak screwed them out of their lease..
Regardless, I think it does say something that all the "Rich guys" wanting to fund an entire team picked the ALMS likely because of link to the rest of the world.

I applaud MSR and WTR for getting funding, that's pretty kick ass. But there's dozens of teams which make P2 work as a business (JOTA Sport, Murphy Prototypes, and the like) without a CEO dumping bazillions in "Marketing" to support their hobby. Why can't the DP teams make it work? No market exposure. So either
A. TUSC needs better promotion, more market appeal, and more screen time
Or
B. Prototype racing isn't a sustainable business, and they should go run a PC or GTD team and let P be a playground for the super wealthy (Factories or CEO's on holiday). Yet people in Europe make it work...

As long as Rebellion Racing still make it to races which are further apart, and more expensive to run, then there's something going wrong. I bet Rebellion could run a kick-ass P2 team, probably 4 cars with that kind of spend.

None of that is as a fan, it's as an Econ major.

You can't get rid of GTLM, they practically pay for the damn series. Again, privateer GTE Am teams work overseas, but not here. That would consolidate things quite nicely.

I'd love it if the GTD teams got up and went to World Challenge, or made their own GT series. It would work as a stand-alone series.

I have no problem with GTLM (With a ProAm trophy) and Post 2017 prototype being the only classes.

An open GT class would be great, but the factories want to spend to win. If they're BoP'd back to a cheap GT3 car, what is the point? Then they leave, and we lose the little promotion we have.

4 classes aren't that confusing. Either it's interesting or it isn't. Improvement in the TV production would help.

 

[trustjab]

On a happier note, this livery for the #91 Viper for Indy is sweet...

 

[cnd01]

Then I take what you said with little impact. I think you get it.

I know they would. Low cost? TV exposure? Sign me up.

I'd like to see some hard data on that. PC's need almost no replacement parts over an entire season. Brake pads, and whatever bodywork you jack up.
Even if that was the case, that means the cost of running per hour hasn't gone up (Unless you factor the initial investment of the upgrade). They did, however, stop receiving checks. And if they're complaining about running costs now, that means their business wasn't exactly sound without the subsidy. Which is fine, but I'm sure they knew where their bottom line was. It's not a "Anti-DP" thing, it's a bad business thing.

The P2 teams got by without subsidy, but they were bankrolled by their backers who participated in the team (Ed Brown, Scott Tucker, Greg Pickett). Dyson may have had a business case, being involved with Thereford, Mazda, Racer Magazine, etc. Conquest Endurance was making it work, but their pro driver wasn't paid and Oak screwed them out of their lease..

I'd really like to see those articles on how NASCAR hands out subsidies. I guarantee that even if they did, Don Panoz did just as much subsidizing in the ALMS if now more when they had an actual prototype grid. What team owner in their right mind would not run a series that you could make a guaranteed profit off of courtesy of the sanctioning body where the other one didn't and was more expensive to run as is based on operating cost.

Regardless, I think it does say something that all the "Rich guys" wanting to fund an entire team picked the ALMS likely because of link to the rest of the world.

The few rich guys that raced the ALMS(not all the rich guys chose the ALMS) because they had a class structure where they were pretty much guaranteed a good result and because they had a ratings system where the funded driver didn't have to race all the professionals.

Then I take what you said with little impact. I think you get it.

I applaud MSR and WTR for getting funding, that's pretty kick ass. But there's dozens of teams which make P2 work as a business (JOTA Sport, Murphy Prototypes, and the like) without a CEO dumping bazillions in "Marketing" to support their hobby. Why can't the DP teams make it work? No market exposure. So either
A. TUSC needs better promotion, more market appeal, and more screen time
Or
B. Prototype racing isn't a sustainable business, and they should go run a PC or GTD team and let P be a playground for the super wealthy (Factories or CEO's on holiday). Yet people in Europe make it work...

There are more full season DP teams after the updates than the WEC has LMP2 teams. ELMS doesn't exactly have stellar numbers either. Counting the DW as a full season entrant, there are I believe the same number of IMSA Prototypes as WEC LMP2 and ELMS LMP2 entries for their seasons. Hardly making it work if you ask me

Aside from the inaugural season of the DP, there has never been fewer than 9 full season entrants. Subsidized or not, that's more than making it work.

As long as Rebellion Racing still make it to races which are further apart, and more expensive to run, then there's something going wrong. I bet Rebellion could run a kick-ass P2 team, probably 4 cars with that kind of spend.

I doubt Rebellion could find 4 renters for said program unless they didn't need the money from the renters then they could just find an obscure silver rated driver who's got pro level speed and experience and mop the floor.

You can't get rid of GTLM, they practically pay for the damn series. Again, privateer GTE Am teams work overseas, but not here. That would consolidate things quite nicely.

I'd love it if the GTD teams got up and went to World Challenge, or made their own GT series. It would work as a stand-alone series.

I have no problem with GTLM (With a ProAm trophy) and Post 2017 prototype being the only classes.

An open GT class would be great, but the factories want to spend to win. If they're BoP'd back to a cheap GT3 car, what is the point? Then they leave, and we lose the little promotion we have.

Getting rid of GTLM would certainly hurt the series short term, but grand am never had a factory GT program and they got by. Unless NASCAR was dropping enough subsidies into the series to pay for a DP grid of 15+ and GT grids of 15+ for a whole decade, I don't see that logic. I really don't think it would change a whole lot after the first year of not having the factory teams. Get them building a customer car for the privateers like Porsche, Ferrari, Audi, Ford, and others do and support them. That gets all that money back into the series helping the privateers compete as well. Everyone wins.

T
4 classes aren't that confusing. Either it's interesting or it isn't. Improvement in the TV production would help.

Try to explain why these 2 Ferrari 458s aren't in the same class to someone who doesn't know a lot about sports car racing.

 

[RACECAR]

I dare you to explain to the casual fan ANYTHING about Sports Car Racing. Racing in itself is already a niche sport.

Also, pretty sure the same applies for the ELMS since they too are running GT3 cars in their series.