2014 United Sports Car Championship
- Thread starter Earth
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- LMSCorvetteGT2's Mom's House
- GTP_LancerEvo7
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- Essex
Thats pretty much right... (I think)
Also I don't understand all of this negativity towards LMP2 from the Grand Am lot. They clearly knew LMP2 would be involved when they agreed on the merger.
- 2,980
- The Ramapo Mountains
- jjaisli
What hostility? All we have so far is an alleged story somebody posted from another forum. It may be the truth. Or it may have never happened. Either way, JC's comments, assuming they were true, really don't amount to much. If there is resistance from the Grand Am team owners about upgrades to their cars, I suspect it's much less about any animosity toward the ACO or the ALMS or their car classes, and much more to do about how much money it's going to cost them. Dollars and Cents. That's the bottom line. It's no secret that DP teams were privy to financial assistance. That financial assistance, along with the political clout the France family maintains in track ownership, brokering TV deals, pulling in other big name sponsors, is key to what gave Grand Am the leverage it had.
I'm very curious, if the DP teams will continue to enjoy the cash infusions they've been privy to all these years, once the merger is complete. That I think could be a rather explosive situation.
Last edited:
- 3,019
- Essex
Well perhaps I worded it wrong. I don't really follow the Grand Am or ALMS mainly because of the lack of coverage over here. Most of the stuff I know about comes from the discussion on this thread.
- 10,276
- Sacramento CA
- cnd01
Direct email from Peter Baron to Grand am regarding the series:
Peter Baron Random Thoughts of Awesomeness on DP/LMP2 & ALMS/Grand Am integration.
First - the 2014 season is around the corner - and the budgeting/planning needs to happen now. I need to know now if i am telling customers it is $1mm more ? $500k more? for a DP season. We need to get some input on this fast. I can not wait until October. I need to start receiving funds in October, not debating over what the budget is. I have one customer at large number for PC and i don't know if its a good number, or painfully shy. We need this information now.
Now for the meeting comments:
Classes need to be defined in a theoretical lap time/ speed ranking
1) LMP2/DP on top
2) PC
3) GTLM
4) GTD
5) GX - needs to be eliminated
GTLM I believe that GTLM has to remain constant and getting manufacturers to agree to a "5%" restrictor or any other changes will be impossible. Leave this class untouched as it ties to the ACO rules for LeMans. Manufactures (GM and BMW) put ten times into GTLM than what they do to DP. I think we all need to be realistic and digest that GTLM will not, and should not change. If all the DP teams think we should be the benchmark - all 4 others adjust, i think they are kidding themselves. The mob thought was "Majority Rules." But the GTLM mob is not to far off of the DP mob, and has significantly more factory support behind it.
PC must remain on top of GTLM..Class needs to be slowed down slightly so the DP/P2 class can easily be in front, but not slower than the GTLM. According to drivers ,the car feels massively underpowered. If you remove power - it will not be able to pass GTLM cars on a straight. To lower this class speed, I recommend taking away downforce and adding weight. Limit the cornering speeds, and give it a bit more straightaway speed. This will help its race-ability and keep it as the 2nd fastest class. Perhaps a harder compound tire than what they have this year?
GTD must be slowed down on the straightaways. They are far to fast & passing these cars in short chute sections with a DP is almost impossible. GTLM cars will never pass them on a straightaway. Throttle them back similar to how ALMS slowed the GTC to keep the straightaway speeds lower than the GTLM.
GX - find a way to get rid of this class. It looks to be there only to appease Mazda. Please get rid of it , and force this Mazda into GTD or GS. The speed differentials are horrifying and the class is more relevant to Conti racing in speed. A class for 3 cars needs to go.
Race Weekends:
Too many open variables and planning needs to happen now.
Paddock Space
the series needs to knock out the easy problems first.
pit rules...
Tires and fuel at the same time?
number of tire changers/helpers
I assume no booms for fuel?
paddock questions
amount of space per entry?
20' canopy per car? 26' for two? what is corvette and all going to do with the 2 car monstrosities? if so i want each car to have a 20' canopy..
set up days? should be minimal to keep travel costs down.
Split races
Need split races on tracks like Lime Rock, Mid Ohio, Kansas, Indy. Glen Short, 50+ cars on these tracks will be a disaster, especially will how close the gaps will be in speed.
Perhaps send Prototypes to Long Beach, and GT cars to Baltimore (like the pre-2007 Grand Am seasons)
Length
Race weekends should be defined as a standard calendar duration - "days at track"
6 hour or less events should be scheduled and routinely structured as 3 day event. who cares about television.. We often get pushed to the next day due to a rain delay for Nascar truck qualifying.
Day 1 - set up day that allows teams to come in based on flights that day - not have to stay the night before. ( perhaps exception - west coast teams to east coast races)
a new event - perhaps a late afternoon session for familiarization
Day 2 Practice and qualifying
Day 3 Warm up of 30 mins and race.
Warm ups really need to be 30 minutes and only 30 minutes
30 minutes allows times for cold mornings to get car and tires up to temps and let a pro ( from a pro am car) do a little set up - but not long enough so you feel compelled to put on a set of stickers like many teams for Road Atlanta warm up
To look professional, it should be mandatory to keep the team's paddock complete - and not torn down prior to the race. It looks a bit off with the fans walking around the paddock, and having them look at a loaded hauler and a race car sitting there alone - prior to the race. Races should be early enough so teams can finish the race, load the trailers, and get to major airport that night - avoiding anther day on road - reducing Hotel, Fly In day rate costs, per diems, and rental car fees.
Daytona 24 - It was an absolutely terrible idea to have a photo shoot 1st thing Wednesday morning, so we had to have a crew there Tuesday night - and not Weds Am,. ( cost about $3500 per car for this?)
Daytona, Sebring and Petite - Needs to be Set up Wednesday and run Thursday - race saturday. We can not afford the 7 days on the road at Sebring and Petite. Cutting out these days could potentially avoid adding at least $150,000 - $200,000 per car for 6 total test days on the road.
Eliminate the Roar before the 24.. Its sandbagging fest anyway. We are not planning on attending this event in 2014. Its a waste. We will learn more in 1day of private testing than the whole 3 days at the Roar.
Audi and other constructors.
This would be the best thing that could happen for the series. I have faith that the current management could keep "Audi" under control and have them build to the same rules as all the current manufacturers. But to be safe, a rule should be allowed that there is a price cap, and manufactures musth have capability to provide chassis and spares to all customers. One alternative... engine manufactures can not build chassises - only body kits. Since Dallara did most of the heavy lifting on the LMP1 Audi, i'm sure would partner with Dallara if they ever wanted a car. I would love the chance to compete against the biggest name in prototype racing on a level playing field.
The big subject.. the DP- the future and the speed
Everyone knows the LMP2 chassis has a limited life. At best the 4 existing HPD chassis will be good for another 2 season. Internationally LMP2 is a PRO AM class. -( Are you going to keep LMP2 requirements with a Silver Driver? ACO Minimum drive times? ) It is a nice thought opening up to European P2 teams, but we have enough cars in the US to make incredible racing. No one in the stands or on US TV even knows who OAK, Greaves, PeCom ADR Delta even are. You need to grandfather in the 4 running LMP2 cars ( and only these cars with their existing team) for 2 seasons and say going forward you need a DP. Put it out there in stone and people will commit to DPs. Ed Brown and Scott Tucker - if they are still in racing in two years, will need new cars. If new teams want to jump on board for 2014 and do not have a car - the message should be clear to get a DP. If Scott Tucker's and Ed Brown's private jets collide mid-air - the whole LMP2 debate is gone - and should be treated as such.
it is imperative that the DP is sped up + 3 to + 4 seconds to have proper series integration of the 4 series classes ( should be eliminating GTX!).
To speed up the DP - and integrate with the P2 car..
I am sure these are all things you know - but to try to arrive on similar Downforce to weigh ratios, and HP to weight ratios.
LPM2 car - runds with existing LeMans aero kit and add ride height & harder tires to drop lap times. Enough time should be put in to this as my daughter's 6th grade science fair project.
Remove Aero
Add ride height - weight if necessary
hard rides
repeat until slower than DP
Ed Brown/Parton have never been to LeMans, and Tucker only goes with 1 car, so why worry about keeping these cars to exact ACO rules.
I think the angry DP mob at the group discussion was a bit out of control... Show me a study saying its going to cost $40,000 to manufacture new pick-up points for carbon brakes, and ill get you a study showing how to make $35,000 designing pick up points. People are missing the point. Carbon Brakes is not going to magically make the tire more sticky so it can brake later. We are at the limit of tire adhesion. If anything - reducing the 12lbs per corner of rotating mass will take stress off the pick up points. When have you heard of a car failing from pick up points? Owners need to accept change and know that we can improve the show by opening up the wallets and improving the technology on the cars.
Overall, i think the series needs to come up with realistic plans testing parts prior to the end of year.
Back in 2003 - i believe these cars were about 2200lbs and had about 475 BHP. We are much over that now and reliability has only improved.
Simple ways to get the car faster.
50 BHP from motor manufacturers
search for an existing efficient dual element rear wing - that can be reproduced for reasonable costs.
Carbon Rotors - i believe of the course of a season - cost would be mildly different.
Carbon Clutch
More front aero. - In P2 they have the massive elephant ear dive planes. For sure there are frontal bolt on pieces that can add substantial aero without massive costs.
( 6 speed gearbox? dont think its much - but worth a try - we have a few 6 speed clusters and can test if asked)
No bodywork, spitter changes. Manufacturers might tell you there in more in a longer, wider splitter. But not aerodynamicists. They believe it is pretty maxed out and returns would be the smallest of any area.
If you do come out with something like a new splitter, make it spec - for all cars and cost capped at like $5000. I dont care if its plywood. The $20,000 splitters have to go! Look to develop cost capped parts when possible.
These are all pretty simple, but we need to get these items testing in cars now and quantify on track - not CFD and simulatior! I am happy to contribute services and 3rd car we have.
Tires - people are trying to compare p2 speeds at Sebring 2012 with confidential Dunlops to a 2013 P2 on a car on Customer Michelins that has traction control, weighs 300 LBS less and have 125 HP less. Then extrapolate that info against a LMPC car on customer Michelins in 2012 vs Contis in 2013..? , For starters.. the P2 fastest race lap was 1.5 seconds quicker in 2012 - and the race pace was significantly quicker ( at least 2 seconds a lap average?) - and our last stint at Sebring in 2012 was a triple stint.
But Compare apples to apples... The DP with 575HP ( was that the politically correct number? ) 2325 lbs and no traction control - destroys tires.. this is where a quality tire shines through..
The pirelli of 2010 is still a far superior tire - in both speed and life.
Sorry for the following section Hoosier guys.. Just because i don't like your tires doesn't mean you are not good people!
In 2010 - the pirelli was great- we could do all of the practices and get by on weekend with the mandatory 5 sets- and we sometimes did it on 4 sets.. Now with the Pro Am 7 sets... I jump for joy when we get through the weekend on 6 sets thanks to rain! Thats so wrong - that the series increased the amount of tires by 2 sets, and shrunk the fuel cell 25% so the Conti could make it a stint! Make a worse tire, and make more money. I am quite confident - that all the owners would have gladly paid for customer michelins/pirellis and to pay for a support truck / mounting service to take car of us these last 3 years instead of using contis. The tire is one of the largest "black-eye" issues i have trying to attract customers. Almost all of the conversation with customers is related to " how bad is that tire?" Give us a proper tire so i can sell some seats to customer. Just as Jim Matthews.
And the 2 sets over 11 races for 2 cars over 2 season, roughly $193,000 to my budget ( 2 cars * 2 sets * 11 weekends* 2 years *$2200/set). That a lot of 2010 Pirelli tires that were still 1.5 seconds faster at the Glen 6 hour 2010 vs 2012 Conti I tire!! that hurts me, that hurts the customer, the sponsor and that fans in the crowd that are in the stands watching all the DPs parked because they have to save tires.
Just bring back a Pirelli spec tire and we have 1.5 - 2 seconds of the 6 seconds we are looking for!
People mention marbling? its going to happen no matter what.. GTLM will still have exotic tires. Unless you want to kick out Falken? We still have tremendous pick up problems with the continental tires. I don't think the lack of marbles is why Tim/Ganassi had such an easy Daytona! I'm the little guy in the field - and if we can suck it up, everyone else should be able to.
In conclusion!
When are the paddock / pit rules going to be decided?
1) 3 day - 2 night race weekends for sprint races
2) Weds noon unloads for 10 hour + weekends ( Petite will go the full 10 hours in 2014!)
3) DP speed improvements
Tire Tire Tire
Carbon Brakes
Carbon Rotors
50+ hp
dual element rear wing
better allowances for front bolt-on aero bits to balance dual element rear wing.
Thank you for your time, and reading this to the end!
Peter Baron Random Thoughts of Awesomeness on DP/LMP2 & ALMS/Grand Am integration.
First - the 2014 season is around the corner - and the budgeting/planning needs to happen now. I need to know now if i am telling customers it is $1mm more ? $500k more? for a DP season. We need to get some input on this fast. I can not wait until October. I need to start receiving funds in October, not debating over what the budget is. I have one customer at large number for PC and i don't know if its a good number, or painfully shy. We need this information now.
Now for the meeting comments:
Classes need to be defined in a theoretical lap time/ speed ranking
1) LMP2/DP on top
2) PC
3) GTLM
4) GTD
5) GX - needs to be eliminated
GTLM I believe that GTLM has to remain constant and getting manufacturers to agree to a "5%" restrictor or any other changes will be impossible. Leave this class untouched as it ties to the ACO rules for LeMans. Manufactures (GM and BMW) put ten times into GTLM than what they do to DP. I think we all need to be realistic and digest that GTLM will not, and should not change. If all the DP teams think we should be the benchmark - all 4 others adjust, i think they are kidding themselves. The mob thought was "Majority Rules." But the GTLM mob is not to far off of the DP mob, and has significantly more factory support behind it.
PC must remain on top of GTLM..Class needs to be slowed down slightly so the DP/P2 class can easily be in front, but not slower than the GTLM. According to drivers ,the car feels massively underpowered. If you remove power - it will not be able to pass GTLM cars on a straight. To lower this class speed, I recommend taking away downforce and adding weight. Limit the cornering speeds, and give it a bit more straightaway speed. This will help its race-ability and keep it as the 2nd fastest class. Perhaps a harder compound tire than what they have this year?
GTD must be slowed down on the straightaways. They are far to fast & passing these cars in short chute sections with a DP is almost impossible. GTLM cars will never pass them on a straightaway. Throttle them back similar to how ALMS slowed the GTC to keep the straightaway speeds lower than the GTLM.
GX - find a way to get rid of this class. It looks to be there only to appease Mazda. Please get rid of it , and force this Mazda into GTD or GS. The speed differentials are horrifying and the class is more relevant to Conti racing in speed. A class for 3 cars needs to go.
Race Weekends:
Too many open variables and planning needs to happen now.
Paddock Space
the series needs to knock out the easy problems first.
pit rules...
Tires and fuel at the same time?
number of tire changers/helpers
I assume no booms for fuel?
paddock questions
amount of space per entry?
20' canopy per car? 26' for two? what is corvette and all going to do with the 2 car monstrosities? if so i want each car to have a 20' canopy..
set up days? should be minimal to keep travel costs down.
Split races
Need split races on tracks like Lime Rock, Mid Ohio, Kansas, Indy. Glen Short, 50+ cars on these tracks will be a disaster, especially will how close the gaps will be in speed.
Perhaps send Prototypes to Long Beach, and GT cars to Baltimore (like the pre-2007 Grand Am seasons)
Length
Race weekends should be defined as a standard calendar duration - "days at track"
6 hour or less events should be scheduled and routinely structured as 3 day event. who cares about television.. We often get pushed to the next day due to a rain delay for Nascar truck qualifying.
Day 1 - set up day that allows teams to come in based on flights that day - not have to stay the night before. ( perhaps exception - west coast teams to east coast races)
a new event - perhaps a late afternoon session for familiarization
Day 2 Practice and qualifying
Day 3 Warm up of 30 mins and race.
Warm ups really need to be 30 minutes and only 30 minutes
30 minutes allows times for cold mornings to get car and tires up to temps and let a pro ( from a pro am car) do a little set up - but not long enough so you feel compelled to put on a set of stickers like many teams for Road Atlanta warm up
To look professional, it should be mandatory to keep the team's paddock complete - and not torn down prior to the race. It looks a bit off with the fans walking around the paddock, and having them look at a loaded hauler and a race car sitting there alone - prior to the race. Races should be early enough so teams can finish the race, load the trailers, and get to major airport that night - avoiding anther day on road - reducing Hotel, Fly In day rate costs, per diems, and rental car fees.
Daytona 24 - It was an absolutely terrible idea to have a photo shoot 1st thing Wednesday morning, so we had to have a crew there Tuesday night - and not Weds Am,. ( cost about $3500 per car for this?)
Daytona, Sebring and Petite - Needs to be Set up Wednesday and run Thursday - race saturday. We can not afford the 7 days on the road at Sebring and Petite. Cutting out these days could potentially avoid adding at least $150,000 - $200,000 per car for 6 total test days on the road.
Eliminate the Roar before the 24.. Its sandbagging fest anyway. We are not planning on attending this event in 2014. Its a waste. We will learn more in 1day of private testing than the whole 3 days at the Roar.
Audi and other constructors.
This would be the best thing that could happen for the series. I have faith that the current management could keep "Audi" under control and have them build to the same rules as all the current manufacturers. But to be safe, a rule should be allowed that there is a price cap, and manufactures musth have capability to provide chassis and spares to all customers. One alternative... engine manufactures can not build chassises - only body kits. Since Dallara did most of the heavy lifting on the LMP1 Audi, i'm sure would partner with Dallara if they ever wanted a car. I would love the chance to compete against the biggest name in prototype racing on a level playing field.
The big subject.. the DP- the future and the speed
Everyone knows the LMP2 chassis has a limited life. At best the 4 existing HPD chassis will be good for another 2 season. Internationally LMP2 is a PRO AM class. -( Are you going to keep LMP2 requirements with a Silver Driver? ACO Minimum drive times? ) It is a nice thought opening up to European P2 teams, but we have enough cars in the US to make incredible racing. No one in the stands or on US TV even knows who OAK, Greaves, PeCom ADR Delta even are. You need to grandfather in the 4 running LMP2 cars ( and only these cars with their existing team) for 2 seasons and say going forward you need a DP. Put it out there in stone and people will commit to DPs. Ed Brown and Scott Tucker - if they are still in racing in two years, will need new cars. If new teams want to jump on board for 2014 and do not have a car - the message should be clear to get a DP. If Scott Tucker's and Ed Brown's private jets collide mid-air - the whole LMP2 debate is gone - and should be treated as such.
it is imperative that the DP is sped up + 3 to + 4 seconds to have proper series integration of the 4 series classes ( should be eliminating GTX!).
To speed up the DP - and integrate with the P2 car..
I am sure these are all things you know - but to try to arrive on similar Downforce to weigh ratios, and HP to weight ratios.
LPM2 car - runds with existing LeMans aero kit and add ride height & harder tires to drop lap times. Enough time should be put in to this as my daughter's 6th grade science fair project.
Remove Aero
Add ride height - weight if necessary
hard rides
repeat until slower than DP
Ed Brown/Parton have never been to LeMans, and Tucker only goes with 1 car, so why worry about keeping these cars to exact ACO rules.
I think the angry DP mob at the group discussion was a bit out of control... Show me a study saying its going to cost $40,000 to manufacture new pick-up points for carbon brakes, and ill get you a study showing how to make $35,000 designing pick up points. People are missing the point. Carbon Brakes is not going to magically make the tire more sticky so it can brake later. We are at the limit of tire adhesion. If anything - reducing the 12lbs per corner of rotating mass will take stress off the pick up points. When have you heard of a car failing from pick up points? Owners need to accept change and know that we can improve the show by opening up the wallets and improving the technology on the cars.
Overall, i think the series needs to come up with realistic plans testing parts prior to the end of year.
Back in 2003 - i believe these cars were about 2200lbs and had about 475 BHP. We are much over that now and reliability has only improved.
Simple ways to get the car faster.
50 BHP from motor manufacturers
search for an existing efficient dual element rear wing - that can be reproduced for reasonable costs.
Carbon Rotors - i believe of the course of a season - cost would be mildly different.
Carbon Clutch
More front aero. - In P2 they have the massive elephant ear dive planes. For sure there are frontal bolt on pieces that can add substantial aero without massive costs.
( 6 speed gearbox? dont think its much - but worth a try - we have a few 6 speed clusters and can test if asked)
No bodywork, spitter changes. Manufacturers might tell you there in more in a longer, wider splitter. But not aerodynamicists. They believe it is pretty maxed out and returns would be the smallest of any area.
If you do come out with something like a new splitter, make it spec - for all cars and cost capped at like $5000. I dont care if its plywood. The $20,000 splitters have to go! Look to develop cost capped parts when possible.
These are all pretty simple, but we need to get these items testing in cars now and quantify on track - not CFD and simulatior! I am happy to contribute services and 3rd car we have.
Tires - people are trying to compare p2 speeds at Sebring 2012 with confidential Dunlops to a 2013 P2 on a car on Customer Michelins that has traction control, weighs 300 LBS less and have 125 HP less. Then extrapolate that info against a LMPC car on customer Michelins in 2012 vs Contis in 2013..? , For starters.. the P2 fastest race lap was 1.5 seconds quicker in 2012 - and the race pace was significantly quicker ( at least 2 seconds a lap average?) - and our last stint at Sebring in 2012 was a triple stint.
But Compare apples to apples... The DP with 575HP ( was that the politically correct number? ) 2325 lbs and no traction control - destroys tires.. this is where a quality tire shines through..
The pirelli of 2010 is still a far superior tire - in both speed and life.
Sorry for the following section Hoosier guys.. Just because i don't like your tires doesn't mean you are not good people!
In 2010 - the pirelli was great- we could do all of the practices and get by on weekend with the mandatory 5 sets- and we sometimes did it on 4 sets.. Now with the Pro Am 7 sets... I jump for joy when we get through the weekend on 6 sets thanks to rain! Thats so wrong - that the series increased the amount of tires by 2 sets, and shrunk the fuel cell 25% so the Conti could make it a stint! Make a worse tire, and make more money. I am quite confident - that all the owners would have gladly paid for customer michelins/pirellis and to pay for a support truck / mounting service to take car of us these last 3 years instead of using contis. The tire is one of the largest "black-eye" issues i have trying to attract customers. Almost all of the conversation with customers is related to " how bad is that tire?" Give us a proper tire so i can sell some seats to customer. Just as Jim Matthews.
And the 2 sets over 11 races for 2 cars over 2 season, roughly $193,000 to my budget ( 2 cars * 2 sets * 11 weekends* 2 years *$2200/set). That a lot of 2010 Pirelli tires that were still 1.5 seconds faster at the Glen 6 hour 2010 vs 2012 Conti I tire!! that hurts me, that hurts the customer, the sponsor and that fans in the crowd that are in the stands watching all the DPs parked because they have to save tires.
Just bring back a Pirelli spec tire and we have 1.5 - 2 seconds of the 6 seconds we are looking for!
People mention marbling? its going to happen no matter what.. GTLM will still have exotic tires. Unless you want to kick out Falken? We still have tremendous pick up problems with the continental tires. I don't think the lack of marbles is why Tim/Ganassi had such an easy Daytona! I'm the little guy in the field - and if we can suck it up, everyone else should be able to.
In conclusion!
When are the paddock / pit rules going to be decided?
1) 3 day - 2 night race weekends for sprint races
2) Weds noon unloads for 10 hour + weekends ( Petite will go the full 10 hours in 2014!)
3) DP speed improvements
Tire Tire Tire
Carbon Brakes
Carbon Rotors
50+ hp
dual element rear wing
better allowances for front bolt-on aero bits to balance dual element rear wing.
Thank you for your time, and reading this to the end!
- 7,938
- LMSCorvetteGT2's Mom's House
- GTP_LancerEvo7
- 9,387
- Pittsburgh
- polarbear345
I'm pretty sure he means that as a way to know when to stop. It's better to make something slower, then speed it up than it is to stop once they first become equal.
I say this because he had DP and LMP2 in the same class.
- 7,594
- Ontario,Canada
- macospet1
- My What?
His email is full of great points actually, I don't necessarily agree with all of them but I think we're all going to have to except the fact that some compromises will be made, especially in the Prototype class. Why not speed up DP's and restrict LMP2s slightly and meet somewhere in the middle? Where did you find the email?
freshseth83
(Banned)
- 8,246
- freshseth83
Here is what Peter Baron//Samax had to say about the ongoing DP v LMP2 discussions. It came from another forum, and I am only quoting certain portions of the text.
"Real prototypes" are dead in U.S. racing. Funny he should say things like these guys are unknown, but who is 8-Star? lol, what a crock.
"Real prototypes" are dead in U.S. racing. Funny he should say things like these guys are unknown, but who is 8-Star? lol, what a crock.
- 10,276
- Sacramento CA
- cnd01
I posted the full block of text a little earlier...
I have no clue who any of those teams are besides Greaves tbh. I don't care either because they haven't come to America to race before, so why bother the teams that already race here to let teams that don't come in the first place keep the opportunity.
I have no clue who any of those teams are besides Greaves tbh. I don't care either because they haven't come to America to race before, so why bother the teams that already race here to let teams that don't come in the first place keep the opportunity.
freshseth83
(Banned)
- 8,246
- freshseth83
Thats the isolated mentality that makes this series a joke. 8-Star and Khron racing run or ran the WEC, fans know them? The funny part is who knows these DP teams if youre an ALMS follower? I guess they're not worried about the guys who follow the series they just purchased. Who's Pickett? Who's Dyson? Who's Rebellion? Time for them to look outside their (tiny) box if they want to be taken seriously.
- 7,594
- Ontario,Canada
- macospet1
- My What?
If only the fans of both current series did this..
- 9,387
- Pittsburgh
- polarbear345
If it all goes bad we'll be able to read some nice articles with people blaming people...
- 1,680
- Great White North
- I_powerslide
Baron makes a lot of good points, it's nice to see someone cares about getting this whole thing to work. They really need to get there act together and start testing so that the first season isn't an embarrassment.
I also agree in that GX has to go, it's far too slow to be safe, and as he said, it's only there to please Mazda.
One of the most disappointing parts of the merger for me is the limiting of the PC cars. They are already challenged by the GTLM cars on some tracks, limiting them further will only enhance the issue. Couple that to the fact that the DP owners refuse to speed up the cars to the necessary level and we get a secondary class that could be the fastest class (I'm not saying it should, mind you), but isn't because it has been limited. Kinda sad, really.
I'll still stand by me earlier comment about neither DP nor LMP2 (or LMPC) being a viable top class for any series, they just lack the visual and technological appeal a top tier prototype class should have.
I also agree in that GX has to go, it's far too slow to be safe, and as he said, it's only there to please Mazda.
One of the most disappointing parts of the merger for me is the limiting of the PC cars. They are already challenged by the GTLM cars on some tracks, limiting them further will only enhance the issue. Couple that to the fact that the DP owners refuse to speed up the cars to the necessary level and we get a secondary class that could be the fastest class (I'm not saying it should, mind you), but isn't because it has been limited. Kinda sad, really.
I'll still stand by me earlier comment about neither DP nor LMP2 (or LMPC) being a viable top class for any series, they just lack the visual and technological appeal a top tier prototype class should have.
freshseth83
(Banned)
- 8,246
- freshseth83
Or lets dump on the more popular series we just purchased by eliminating its prototype class and squeezing the other out in the coming years. Thats really a 'merger' isn't it? GA isn't self sustaining, denying it is ignorance. ALMS wasn't either. That was the idea behind the merger, to help each series out. Nope. It's just sad people don't realize this. Still in the box, kid.
- 10,276
- Sacramento CA
- cnd01
freshseth83
How do you know the alms is more popular than grand am? Have you ever been to a grand am race? Have you ever seen any television numbers or seen any attendance records? It's not like grand am isn't giving up anything. Alms gt isn't going to be touched at all. Grand am gt teams are going to completely change their car specs and equipment. DP teams will have to buy tens of thousands of upgrades for their cars. P2 teams aren't having to spend near the amount of money getting their cars within the rules. Sounds a LOT like a merger to me
- 24,663
- Anoka, MN
At the current pace ALMS would have been a GT series in a few years regardless of what Grand-Am did.
