2014 United Sports Car Championship

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

We also know Audi would like to run GTE, and TRG may possibly buy up a GTE Aston. If there's anything USCR has gotten right so far, it's the GT-LM and GT-D/GT3 class. Prototypes on the other hand, they've created more issues than there originally were.

I have to agree with this from the more I've read about the set up of this.

Also that McLaren truck was most likely there for ECU over sight on the Cup cars.

 

[cnd01]

I have to agree with this from the more I've read about the set up of this.

Also that McLaren truck was most likely there for ECU over sight on the Cup cars.

Can't say I completely agree with the Gt analysis. Porsche had their article on the 911 car built for the USCR. It's still a car that can't be used anywhere but here. It's a modified cup car rather than a modified gt3 car too if I'm not mistaken.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Can't say I completely agree with the Gt analysis. Porsche had their article on the 911 car built for the USCR. It's still a car that can't be used anywhere but here. It's a modified cup car rather than a modified gt3 car too if I'm not mistaken.

The GT3 Cup car is the lowest form of the GT3 race car, the GT3 R (which is what you seem to be saying) is also based on the Cup car and has more power and slightly different aero. Also since it is specified for USCR and USCR doesn't directly flow into ACO regs, they'd just have to convert the car back to GT3R specs which isn't all that difficult. In other words the USCR GT3 and the GT3 R are both upper level GT3 Cup cars.

The car is similar to the GTC which is the GT3 R. I think you're trying to compare the GTE car which from as far as I can see will still run the GTLM, so how can you disagree.

 

[cnd01]

The GT3 Cup car is the lowest form of the GT3 race car, the GT3 R (which is what you seem to be saying) is also based on the Cup car and has more power and slightly different aero. Also since it is specified for USCR and USCR doesn't directly flow into ACO regs, they'd just have to convert the car back to GT3R specs which isn't all that difficult. In other words the USCR GT3 and the GT3 R are both upper level GT3 Cup cars.

The car is similar to the GTC which is the GT3 R. I think you're trying to compare the GTE car which from as far as I can see will still run the GTLM, so how can you disagree.

That's the same thing that's currently done in gagt right now

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

That's the same thing that's currently done in gagt right now

Could you elaborate on your response?

 

[Wilbur]

You guys make my head hurt with GT talk! If we talk Porsche, I can't tell a difference normally between any of them that actually race (similar bodies even if aero looks different).

Nice to see them actually look into live streaming and replies soon after! It's about time we get more of that but ALMS is pretty good about that already.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

You guys make my head hurt with GT talk! If we talk Porsche, I can't tell a difference normally between any of them that actually race (similar bodies even if aero looks different).

Nice to see them actually look into live streaming and replies soon after! It's about time we get more of that but ALMS is pretty good about that already.

It's easy GTC has a narrow body and a higher stance, with less dynamic aero that you'd see on a normal GT3. The GTE package is much wider (like a wide body kit), digressive aero, and a low stance like other GTE cars. But I agree over all it looks like a Porsche and is one at the end of the day.

 

[Wilbur]

It's easy GTC has a narrow body and a higher stance, with less dynamic aero that you'd see on a normal GT3. The GTE package is much wider (like a wide body kit), digressive aero, and a low stance like other GTE cars. But I agree over all it looks like a Porsche and is one at the end of the day.

I guess I will have to pay more attention in Daytona or when I got to ALMS at VIR soon.

ALMS's seems to have wider bodied Porsches while GA's all looks closer to a road car to be honest.

 

[cnd01]

Could you elaborate on your response?

Yes man

The current gagt Porsche is a modified cup car with a bigger engine and more horsepower than the alms gtc cup car but less aero than a gt3 car or a gte car. It's been modified where there's a different aero kit and engine than any other series globally. From what I read from the article, that's what Porsche is doing with this car.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I guess I will have to pay more attention in Daytona or when I got to ALMS at VIR soon.

ALMS's seems to have wider bodied Porsches while GA's all looks closer to a road car to be honest.

GTC ones are close to road going versions as well, you just have too look for them. That is why I think the USCR version of GTC next year is still good.

Yes man

The current gagt Porsche is a modified cup car with a bigger engine and more horsepower than the alms gtc cup car but less aero than a gt3 car or a gte car. It's been modified where there's a different aero kit and engine than any other series globally. From what I read from the article, that's what Porsche is doing with this car.

You're wrong it doesn't have a bigger engine than the GT3 Cup car, the drive train is the same. The aero package looks different but probably as aggressive since the GTC one isn't that different from the Cup car. Engines are the same size. I'm talking currently as far as the new one for next year it doesn't seem any more different than the "upgraded" Cup car GAGT and GTC used. I'm sure there are slight difference but I don't think Porsche or groups like TGR will have to do massive upgrades.

This is what I found:

GA GT Specs
Engine:
- water cooled flat six-cylinder boxer engine
- 3,598 cc, stroke 76.4 mm, bore 99,98 mm diameter
- max. power: 309 kW (420 BHP)
- max. torque: 410 Nm
- max. rpm: 8,400 rpm
- four valves per cylinder
- dry-sump lubrication
- two-stage resonance intake manifold, central inlet air duct
- electronic engine management system MS 3.1
- sequential multi-point fuel injection
- required fuel quality: 98 octane ROZ, unleaded
- race exhaust system in accordance with Grand-Am Regulations

Power Train:
- six-speed sequential dog-type gearbox
gear ratios:
ring & pinion gear 8/32 i = 4.0
1st gear 12/38 i = 3.16
2nd gear 15/32 i = 2.13
3rd gear 18/31 i = 1.72
4th gear 20/28 i = 1.40
5th gear 26/30 i = 1.15
6th gear 28/27 i = 0.96
- pressure-oil lubrication
- oil-water heat exchanger
- single-mass flywheel
- hydraulic clutch center-release mechanism
- 5.5" triple-disc sintered-metal clutch
- limited slip differential 40/60 per cent
- rear-wheel drive

GTC


Aspirated engine
Water cooled flat six-cylinder boxer engine with four valves per cylinder
3,797 cc; stroke 76.4 mm; bore 102.7 mm diameter
Max. power: 331 kW (450 hp) at 7,500 rpm
Max. rpm: 8,500 rpm
Required fuel quality: 98 octane ROZ, unleaded
Dry-sump lubrication
Sequential multi-point fuel injection
Electronic engine management MS3.1 by Bosch
Race exhaust system with regulated race catalytic converter
Twin-branched muffler with centered exhaust pipes



Six-speed sequential dog-type gearbox (G97/63) with active oil cooling and pressure-oil lubrication
Gear ratios:
Ring & pinion gear 8/32 i = 4,000
1st gear 12/38 i = 3.167
2nd gear 15/32 i = 2.133
3rd gear 18/31 i = 1.722
4th gear 20/28 i = 1.400
5th gear 23/26 i = 1.300
6th gear 29/27 i = 0.931
Limited slip differential 37 % / 52 %
Single-mass flywheel
Race clutch (5½" triple-disc sintered-metal clutch)
Hydraulic clutch centre-release mechanism
Oil-water heat exchanger

 

[hawkeye122]

I'm 99% sure that the GTC car and the Cup car (IMSA GT3 Cup, German Carera Cup, Supercup circa 2012, all other Porsche Cup series) are exactly the same.

 

[Snaeper]

I'm 99% sure that the GTC car and the Cup car (IMSA GT3 Cup, German Carera Cup, Supercup circa 2012, all other Porsche Cup series) are exactly the same.

I've been pain-stakingly trying to remember the article I was reading that describes the differences between the three, but the Cup car, GTC car and GA GT car are all different.

The Cup and GTC are the most similar, with only a few suspension components and other minor series-related additions being the difference. The GA GT car on the other hand has the GTE's transmission shoe-horned in and ends up costing double the amount of a Cup car with the amount of modifications they have to make for it to be competitive in the series.

Again though, I cannot for the life of me find the source.

Also, here's the various versions of the Porsche 997 GT3 Racecars. Note that the pre-facelift 997's are not represented for comparison with the Cup S (the only pre-facelift 997 here).

GT3 Cup: ~ $160,000USD

GT3 Cup ALMS GTC Spec: Unknown price, not much more than a Cup.

GT3 GAGT Spec: Unknown price, base price is listed as $200,000 but I've heard they're at $400,000 in order to be competitive with modifications.

GT3 Cup S: Unknown. Early model FIA GT3 spec car. Note the wider fenders.

GT3 R: ~$400,000USD if comparative pricing to other GT3 cars is to be used. I can't find one for sale so I don't know. Again, massively wide fenders with canards and a big spoiler. The rear end is also quite significantly altered. Compared to the Cup S, which is a modified GT3 Cup, the R is it's own racecar.

GT3 RSR: Unknown Price. Looks nothing like a road going Porsche outside of general profile and shape.

 

[RACECAR]

And for the sake of keeping things up to date (and adding to Snaeper's point), the 2013 911 GT3 R:

Immediately, you'll notice its much wider (and somewhat smoother) then last year's car. Unsure about price but probably not all that different from last year's car.


Also during the Grand-Am Broadcast, Patrick Long says that the 911 currently used in GT is very old (likely about the same age as the Camaro and M3) so its definitely not as recent as the GTC cars (which are about only two years old I believe)

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Am I the only one who would like an FR Porsche 911 GT3 RSR? I don't like the way RR cars handle, but an FR would be interesting. For me, anyways.

 

[cnd01]

I've been pain-stakingly trying to remember the article I was reading that describes the differences between the three, but the Cup car, GTC car and GA GT car are all different.

The Cup and GTC are the most similar, with only a few suspension components and other minor series-related additions being the difference. The GA GT car on the other hand has the GTE's transmission shoe-horned in and ends up costing double the amount of a Cup car with the amount of modifications they have to make for it to be competitive in the series.

Again though, I cannot for the life of me find the source.

Also, here's the various versions of the Porsche 997 GT3 Racecars. Note that the pre-facelift 997's are not represented for comparison with the Cup S (the only pre-facelift 997 here).

GT3 Cup: ~ $160,000USD

GT3 Cup ALMS GTC Spec: Unknown price, not much more than a Cup.

GT3 GAGT Spec: Unknown price, base price is listed as $200,000 but I've heard they're at $400,000 in order to be competitive with modifications.

GT3 Cup S: Unknown. Early model FIA GT3 spec car. Note the wider fenders.

GT3 R: ~$400,000USD if comparative pricing to other GT3 cars is to be used. I can't find one for sale so I don't know. Again, massively wide fenders with canards and a big spoiler. The rear end is also quite significantly altered. Compared to the Cup S, which is a modified GT3 Cup, the R is it's own racecar.

GT3 RSR: Unknown Price. Looks nothing like a road going Porsche outside of general profile and shape.

Everything I've read says this is correct. The alms gtc Porsche is anywhere from 7/10s to 2 seconds slower than the gagt Porsche depending on the track because the gagt Porsche has a 4.0L flat 6 rather than the 3.5L which is what I believe comes in the cup car. I would expect the alms gtc class to be about as fast as the Porsche Cayman in gx is on the high banks which is about 170 mph if my memory serves me correctly. The gagt cars hit 185+ in trap speed

 

[LancerEvo7]

There is no way in hell the GAGT cars hit 185. Tbh I doubt DPs get going much faster than that.

 

[cnd01]

There is no way in hell the GAGT cars hit 185. Tbh I doubt DPs get going much faster than that.

I'll give you trap speed data when I get to a computer that shows exactly what I'm saying. DP hits 195+

 

[LancerEvo7]

I'll give you trap speed data when I get to a computer that shows exactly what I'm saying. DP hits 195+

I'd love to see it. 👍 I've never believed that they get going that fast, would be glad to have some proof, even if I'm wrong.

 

[cnd01]

I'd love to see it. 👍 I've never believed that they get going that fast, would be glad to have some proof, even if I'm wrong.

It's some pretty good stuff. That data also shows how badly grand am screwed the pooch on BoP that race in DP

 

[Mac K]

I'm 99% sure that the GTC car and the Cup car (IMSA GT3 Cup, German Carera Cup, Supercup circa 2012, all other Porsche Cup series) are exactly the same.

I have a buddy whose dad owns one of the IMSA GT3 teams, they are apparently faster down the straights than the GTC Porsches, so they have to run a small air restrictor. According to him anyway.

Am I the only one who would like an FR Porsche 911 GT3 RSR? I don't like the way RR cars handle, but an FR would be interesting. For me, anyways.

I'd hope so There has been one "MR" Porsche though, I believe it raced Sebring in the 80s or 90s.. Although the Porsche big wigs hated it and refused to support it..

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Everything I've read says this is correct. The alms gtc Porsche is anywhere from 7/10s to 2 seconds slower than the gagt Porsche depending on the track because the gagt Porsche has a 4.0L flat 6 rather than the 3.5L which is what I believe comes in the cup car. I would expect the alms gtc class to be about as fast as the Porsche Cayman in gx is on the high banks which is about 170 mph if my memory serves me correctly. The gagt cars hit 185+ in trap speed

it's not a 3.5 it's a 3.6 that it said and those were the GT regs, that could be found by Grand Am, but I think those are last years regs for the 997. Either way that shows that the cars are comparable and in the same range and not any where toward what you are suggesting as far as power goes. If it were the case GAGT would be using the GT3 RSR.

I have a buddy whose dad owns one of the IMSA GT3 teams, they are apparently faster down the straights than the GTC Porsches, so they have to run a small air restrictor. According to him anyway.

This ^ for the most part they are the same car, but ACO has (to me) asinine air restrictions for all cars in GT classes to create BoP for the class. GTC and GTE follow ACO regs in ALMS as we know.

 

[cnd01]

it's not a 3.5 it's a 3.6 that it said and those were the GT regs, that could be found by Grand Am, but I think those are last years regs for the 997. Either way that shows that the cars are comparable and in the same range and not any where toward what you are suggesting as far as power goes. If it were the case GAGT would be using the GT3 RSR.

This ^ for the most part they are the same car, but ACO has (to me) asinine air restrictions for all cars in GT classes to create BoP for the class. GTC and GTE follow ACO regs in ALMS as we know.

When I get to a computer, I'll explain further with rules and trap speed data. An alms gtc car can compete at gtc spec legally in grand am. Those cars are nowhere near competitive. I can hear the difference between a full spec gagt Porsche and the gtc version. Ask NGT how well they did with their gtc spec car two years ago. This most recent year, they brought a full gagt spec car and were very competitive throughout the race until contact caused a tire failure

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

When I get to a computer, I'll explain further with rules and trap speed data. An alms gtc car can compete at gtc spec legally in grand am. Those cars are nowhere near competitive. I can hear the difference between a full spec gagt Porsche and the gtc version. Ask NGT how well they did with their gtc spec car two years ago. This most recent year, they brought a full gagt spec car and were very competitive throughout the race until contact caused a tire failure

...I just told you why in my last post you "hear the difference". I have errands to run but when I get back if you need me to further break it down I will.

 

[cnd01]

...I just told you why in my last post you "hear the difference". I have errands to run but when I get back if you need me to further break it down I will.

No worries I'm agreeing with you

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I don't see how we are in agreeing? Maybe someone else can help me out here but it sounds like you think the GAGT is a vastly different car from the GTC, and even went on to say that car has a bigger engine than the GTC version so... I don't think we agree.

 

[cnd01]

I don't see how we are in agreeing? Maybe someone else can help me out here but it sounds like you think the GAGT is a vastly different car from the GTC, and even went on to say that car has a bigger engine than the GTC version so... I don't think we agree.

It's a souped up gtc car essentially. Not an entirely different car. Gagt is gtc+ pretty much

 

[Mac K]

Isn't the Grand Am car a 3.8 litter (or in some cases 4.0) Porsche hasn't put a 3.6 in any GT3 since the 996 I thought?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

It's a souped up gtc car essentially. Not an entirely different car. Gagt is gtc+ pretty much

Provide proof as asked of you in regards to the DP because everything I've found is that they're pretty much the same car, same engine, power train everything. The only true difference I can see is air restriction in ALMS, I showed evidence from that last car cycles that counter act what you say. That info was directly from GAGT regulations of 2012 from the Grand Am website, so prove that one car has a bigger engine and so on.

 

[cnd01]

Provide proof as asked of you in regards to the DP because everything I've found is that they're pretty much the same car, same engine, power train everything. The only true difference I can see is air restriction I showed evidence from that last car cycles that counter act what you say. That info was directly from GAGT regulations of 2012 from the Grand Am website, so prove that one car has a bigger engine and so on.

Well, the Chevy, Ford, and last year Bmw engines are all the same displacement. The new Bmw is a 4.5L V8 which runs a 6 speed transmission whereas the 5.0L engines run a 5 speed. Ford has a 2.5L ecoboost turbo 6 for next season. Porsche had a flat 6 for years that ran DP. Penske campaigned one back about 2008. Brumos won the Rolex 24 with it. The bodykits are thesame, but that's because there's no factory teams building hero cars and not selling customer models. If there were 10 Lola B12s in the LMP1 field, those cars are spec by your definition.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Well, the Chevy, Ford, and last year Bmw engines are all the same displacement. The new Bmw is a 4.5L V8 which runs a 6 speed transmission whereas the 5.0L engines run a 5 speed. Ford has a 2.5L ecoboost turbo 6 for next season. Porsche had a flat 6 for years that ran DP. Penske campaigned one back about 2008. Brumos won the Rolex 24 with it. The bodykits are thesame, but that's because there's no factory teams building hero cars and not selling customer models. If there were 10 Lola B12s in the LMP1 field, those cars are spec by your definition.

...What does that have to do with GAGT and GTC?