cars you hate, vent out your anger here

[Joey D]

A majority of cars don't have a soul, and most of them are appliances used to get you from A to B. The Prius just happens to be a really efficient appliance. Toyota designed it to get good fuel mileage, which it does, past that there's not to much to the car. I don't really like the car, but I don't hate it.

And the reason it's designed the way it is, is because that's on of the most aerodynamic shapes you can have with still having interior room. I know the cargo space in a Prius is pretty good considering the car's size.

 

[Slash]

A majority of cars don't have a soul, and most of them are appliances used to get you from A to B. The Prius just happens to be a really efficient appliance. Toyota designed it to get good fuel mileage, which it does, past that there's not to much to the car. I don't really like the car, but I don't hate it.

And the reason it's designed the way it is, is because that's on of the most aerodynamic shapes you can have with still having interior room. I know the cargo space in a Prius is pretty good considering the car's size.

Well they better do something soon, Ford's C-Max is stealing the spotlight with horsepower and better MPG haha

 

[Joey D]

Well they better do something soon, Ford's C-Max is stealing the spotlight with horsepower and better MPG haha

I'd hope the C-Max would be better since it's a significantly newer design, it's also larger too which helps. But it's still plagued with Ford's shoddy craftsmanship on their American vehicles. The new model year will be better but it's experiencing the same problems the Focus did when it was launched.

 

[niky]

The CMax gets better economy than the Prius V on-paper, but not in the real world. Though there are other reasons to get a CMax.

Nothing non-electric gets better economy in the US than the Prius C. It's not fantastic to drive, but it's a whole lot better than a Yaris, Accent or non-turbo Sonic.

 

[Goshin2568]

It's a car built for a specific market, not everyone is an automotive enthusiast.. And I don't understand what's so bad about the pursuit of fuel economy.

It has nothing about being an enthusiast. How good a car is should be measured against it's purpose and it's competitors. I'm not expressing dislike for hybrids in general, just specifically the Prius. Plenty of other fuel efficient cars manage to get good fuel economy without sacrificing the other 99 things that make a car a car.

You mean, they've removed the things that the people who buy them don't care about, to make it better at things they do care about?

I can understand people disliking the Prius, but as reasoning goes, it being "stupid and inexcusable" to make a car appeal to its target market (and it being one of the highest-selling model lines in the US) is a bit daft.

Again, plently of other cars manage to do all of it. What comes to mind? The Volt, the Camry Hybrid, the Leaf, the ES 300h. Better looks, more fun, better interior, etc. etc. etc.

And it for sure isn't "things that the people who buy them don't care about"
I've heard complaints from a 68 year old woman that her Prius was so slow, she had to practically floor it to safely merge onto the highway. And the ones I've ridden in have had an absolutely horrendous ride. And don't even get me started with that stupid CVT.

Chevrolet have pretty much proved it with the Volt (and Toyota to some extent with the excellent Camry Hybrid). You can get good fuel economy without having to look terrible (inside and out), drive terrible, and ride terrible. So why is it still being done?

 

[Pupik]

The Prius has a soul, it's just a rather stubborn one, if you drive it like you expect a non-hybrid car to go through its motions. If you don't drive it slowly and gingerly, or pound the throttle mercilessly in Power Mode, you're going to get a kind of herky-jerky response from it. You get interior styling that's more like the U.S.S. Enterprise than anything else. It sits lower to the ground than many other vehicles...you can't duplicate that feeling with an SUV, unless you're really in to customization.

I've put over 800 miles on two different ones, and although it's not a driving experience that suits me, it's likely well enough for people who don't care about tearing around a corner every so often, aren't in their own private grand prix race, and aren't impressed with much lavishness nor want much in the way of sound. Some people have no idea that it's never shifting gears, while it kind of never seems to be on boil for anything in the hurry, it's more like lighting a candle, waiting for the wick to catch, and then you have light.

The owner gets really good fuel economy and at parking lot speeds, a quiet and less-distracting experience. Sure, it will take 150,000 miles to break even on your fuel cost, but for some people, that's their interest. Some people will pay an extra $5000 for go-faster/handle-better equipment that gets never gets used everyday, so that argument cancels the other one. But hey, I've never had any trouble in city and highway traffic with it, and it delivered a combined 49 mpg with all my good and bad driving habits, essentially as promised. Saying that it offers nothing unique of an experience is a glib answer borne out of total ignorance, or just the repetition of someone else's tales.

A Toyota Matrix is an appliance, a Mitsubishi Galant is an appliance, a Nissan Sentra is appliance...those are three examples that show that they're not even trying to fold the envelope; a Mazda 3, last-year's Ford Fusion, and a Hyundai Elantra do more in their respective segments, in my opinion.

I never saw the point of the sebring. It looks so cheap. I don't know why anyone would ever want to buy one.

Rental car companies/fleet sales seem to snap them up, which seem to justify their existence. I could sort of understand why someone would buy an Impala, it's big and roomy, and they probably don't like Fords (see the rental car scenario). But the Avenger seems like factory rebates are the only reason to even think of one; I go to dealers of all different brands nationwide, and I've yet to actually encounter a live, paying customer with one of those. I've had to drive two Avengers (sometimes you can pick your cars, other times, you-get-what-you-get-and-you-don't-get-upset; it's decent in the snow, but that was about its only merit. Couldn't wait to get out of it the second time. That's a car that seems to do nothing impressive, and it's ugly to boot.

 

[Joey D]

It has nothing about being an enthusiast. How good a car is should be measured against it's purpose and it's competitors. I'm not expressing dislike for hybrids in general, just specifically the Prius. Plenty of other fuel efficient cars manage to get good fuel economy without sacrificing the other 99 things that make a car a car.

Again, plently of other cars manage to do all of it. What comes to mind? The Volt, the Camry Hybrid, the Leaf, the ES 300h. Better looks, more fun, better interior, etc. etc. etc.

OK, if I measure a Prius against it's competitors, it's pretty much the same thing. And I'm not sure what the Prius exactly sacrifices in the name of fuel economy its competitors don't.

The Volt's interior is pretty average, the Leaf doesn't have an engine and the ES 300h is just a Toyota Avalon with an L badge on it and similar tech to what the Prius has, same goes for the Camry hybrid. So I'm really failing to understand what point you're attempting to make. None of those cars are really any better than a Prius.

And it for sure isn't "things that the people who buy them don't care about"
I've heard complaints from a 68 year old woman that her Prius was so slow, she had to practically floor it to safely merge onto the highway. And the ones I've ridden in have had an absolutely horrendous ride. And don't even get me started with that stupid CVT.

Most hybrids have CVT transmissions, I don't like them but it's not like the Prius is the only hybrid or fuel efficient car that has one. It's actually the most economical transmission you can use.

I'm also not sure what that 68 year old women was driving, but I'm guessing she didn't know how to drive. I ride in a Prius several times a week and it feels exactly like any other average car I've been in. It's never once gotten ran over on the freeway, it gets up to speed just fine and it even drives through the snow just fine. Plus with it being easy on fuel my cab fares tend to be slightly cheaper too.

Chevrolet have pretty much proved it with the Volt (and Toyota to some extent with the excellent Camry Hybrid). You can get good fuel economy without having to look terrible (inside and out), drive terrible, and ride terrible. So why is it still being done?

So Toyota proved to Toyota they know how to make a hybrid....yo dawg.

 

[Goshin2568]

OK, if I measure a Prius against it's competitors, it's pretty much the same thing. And I'm not sure what the Prius exactly sacrifices in the name of fuel economy its competitors don't.

The Volt's interior is pretty average, the Leaf doesn't have an engine and the ES 300h is just a Toyota Avalon with an L badge on it and similar tech to what the Prius has, same goes for the Camry hybrid. So I'm really failing to understand what point you're attempting to make. None of those cars are really any better than a Prius.

Everything you've just said is either irrelevant or untrue. First of all, have you ever sat in a Volt? Or are you just blind?

Secondly, the ES 300h looks better in and out, rides better, and though I haven't driven it, I would be willing to bet it drives better also, and from that you get that it's "not really any better"? What?

Same applies with the Camry. Looks better, drives better, rides better. It's better.

Thirdly, what does the Leaf's lack of engine have anything to do with whether or not it's better than the Prius? It's faster, looks better, and rides better.

Most hybrids have CVT transmissions, I don't like them but it's not like the Prius is the only hybrid or fuel efficient car that has one. It's actually the most economical transmission you can use.

It's not the fact that it has a CVT, it's the quality and intelligence of the CVT.

I'm also not sure what that 68 year old women was driving, but I'm guessing she didn't know how to drive. I ride in a Prius several times a week and it feels exactly like any other average car I've been in. It's never once gotten ran over on the freeway, it gets up to speed just fine and it even drives through the snow just fine. Plus with it being easy on fuel my cab fares tend to be slightly cheaper too.

Again, you just sound like you don't know what your talking about. Should we look at 0-60 times? My stock 1995 Toyota Corolla, with 220,000 miles, gets to 60 almost 3 seconds faster than a brand new Prius. And that's not all. Let's look at it versus the competitors we've been talking about.

Nissan Leaf: 7.9 sec
Chevrolet Volt: 8.9 sec
Camry Hybrid: 7.2 sec
Lexus ES 300h: 7.5 sec
Toyota Prius: 12.9 sec

Why? There is no excuse for that. And that's just hybrids. If we bring in more "average cars" it gets even more humiliating. (These are all brand new models, as were the ones above).

Mercedes C250: 6.9 sec
Nissan Altima: 7.3/5.7 sec (L4/V6)
Ford Focus: 7.5 sec
Dodge Ram 1500: 6.0 sec
Subaru Legacy (L4): 8.6 sec
Mini Cooper: 7.6 sec
Chrysler Town & Country: 8.0 sec
Buick Verano: 8.1 sec

That is clearly not "exactly like any other average car".

So Toyota proved to Toyota they know how to make a hybrid....yo dawg.

Which is my point. I don't have a vendetta against Toyota, I own a Toyota. My beef is with the Prius. If they can make something as good as the Camry Hybrid, then why are there still so many problems with the Prius?

 

[McLaren]

The Volt's interior is pretty average, the Leaf doesn't have an engine and the ES 300h is just a Toyota Avalon with an L badge on it and similar tech to what the Prius has, same goes for the Camry hybrid. So I'm really failing to understand what point you're attempting to make. None of those cars are really any better than a Prius.

It's built on the Avalon body, but is far, far from just a Toyota with an L badge. Not even close.

 

[niky]

Nissan Leaf: 7.9 sec
Chevrolet Volt: 8.9 sec
Camry Hybrid: 7.2 sec
Lexus ES 300h: 7.5 sec
Toyota Prius: 12.9 sec

What cereal box did you get that off of?

A Prius takes just 9.7 seconds to hit 60 mph. I should know, I timed it via V-Box to 10 seconds... to 100 km/h (62 mph).

And none of those cars costs less than $10k more than the Prius, except the Camry Hybrid, which can't match the economy.

If we're talking the C, you could buy two base Cs for the price of an ES300h. And it'll still do 60 in 10.5 seconds, while delivering over 50 mpg.

Mercedes C250: 6.9 sec

Not a competitor. More expensive.

Nissan Altima: 7.3/5.7 sec (L4/V6)

Given. Not as economical.

Ford Focus: 7.5 sec

Smaller back seat. Poorer economy. Gasoline Direct Injection is of questionable long-term durability. I'd say the same about Powershift, but they're finally releasing replacement clutch packs for those things.

Dodge Ram 1500: 6.0 sec

I suppose you cross-shop refrigerators with woodchippers, too?

Subaru Legacy (L4): 8.6 sec

Only slightly faster. Drinks gas like nobody's business.

Mini Cooper: 7.6 sec

Not a competitor. Ridiculous backseat. Pain-in-the-ass to own, because the GDI in the MINI isn't of questionable quality... we KNOW the fuel pump conks out. Fuel pump repair and cleaning are the most common non-PMS jobs done at our local MINI. MINI USA has even extended warranty on the part due to the complaints.

Lovely to drive, though. I'd buy one if I had the money.

Chrysler Town & Country: 8.0 sec

Refrigerator, meet larder.

Buick Verano: 8.1 sec

Now you're reaching...

If they can make something as good as the Camry Hybrid, then why are there still so many problems with the Prius?

What problems? It's a reasonably spacious, comfortable-riding car which I've seen get 40 mpg in crushing gridlock, 50 mpg in city driving and 80 mpg if you really try.

Oil changes are incredibly infrequent. Brakes last forever. The battery pack on the Prius has proven to be the most reliable traction pack on the market, with most lasting well over Toyota's 8 year promise, and a good trade in reconditioned packs going.

I've driven three or four Prii. The C is, granted, a cheap, plasticky little car, but it's the cheapest hybrid on the market and will do over 50 mpg on the highway without a sweat and 60 mpg with ridiculous ease. And it drives better than the Yaris or that wallowy pig of a car, the Accent.

The regular Prius, apart from the numb steering (which, let's be honest, is because it's a Toyota, not because it's a hybrid), cheap tires and that horrible plastic center console, is a pretty nice car, and painless to drive and own.

-

This is not to say that I am convinced the Prius is a good investment proposition, but it's a better long-term purchase than most brand-new cars, with excellent resale value, reliability and convenience. If you only need a car to take you from Point A to Point B every day in perfect comfort and which only needs filling up half-as-often as a regular car, the Prius is a pretty good car.

 

[Goshin2568]

What cereal box did you get that off of?

A Prius takes just 9.7 seconds to hit 60 mph. I should know, I timed it via V-Box to 10 seconds... to 100 km/h (62 mph).

And none of those cars costs less than $10k more than the Prius, except the Camry Hybrid, which can't match the economy.

If we're talking the C, you could buy two base Cs for the price of an ES300h. And it'll still do 60 in 10.5 seconds, while delivering over 50 mpg.

Not a competitor. More expensive.

Given. Not as economical.

Smaller back seat. Poorer economy. Gasoline Direct Injection is of questionable long-term durability. I'd say the same about Powershift, but they're finally releasing replacement clutch packs for those things.

I suppose you cross-shop refrigerators with woodchippers, too?

Only slightly faster. Drinks gas like nobody's business.

Not a competitor. Ridiculous backseat. Pain-in-the-ass to own, because the GDI in the MINI isn't of questionable quality... we KNOW the fuel pump conks out. Fuel pump repair and cleaning are the most common non-PMS jobs done at our local MINI. MINI USA has even extended warranty on the part due to the complaints.

Lovely to drive, though. I'd buy one if I had the money.

Refrigerator, meet larder.

Now you're reaching...

First of all, I apologize for the incorrect Prius time. I went back to my source and realized I had typed 2003 rather than 2013.

Either way, its still multiple seconds slower than all of those competitors.

Secondly, all of those other non hybrid cars I wasn't using as examples of competitors, I was using them as examples of average cars. I was making the point that the Prius obviously doesn't accelerate as well as an average car, nor does it accelerate as well as its competitors.

 

[niky]

The "average" car would be something roughly the same size as the Prius with the same footprint. Which would be the Corolla class... a class in which most automatics get to 60 in 9-10 seconds.

But if you'd like to more clearly define "average", the best-selling car in America for 2012 was the Camry. The volume-seller is the 2.5 automatic with the slushbox. Which gets to 60 in 8.6 seconds versus the Prius' 9.7.

So no, not multiple seconds faster. Not really.

And if we're talking direct competitors for the Prius... the one direct competitor it has (same price, same size, nearly the same economy... but not quite) is the Civic Hybrid, which is less economical and a second slower to 60.

Then again... 0-60 times are not really a reason to hate a car, not when they're resoundingly average and not "Oh-God-I'm-Going-To-Die-Because-I'm-So-Slow" slow.

Tell the old lady that next time, she should push the "PWR MODE" button on the dash when she wants to overtake. That's what it's there for.

 

[Antonisbob]

Most cars from the '90s & 2000's, Dodge Neons, Caravan, Stratus, Saturn's, Geo's, any Honda's, Toyota or Mazda, new Malibu's, Cobalt's, even the stuff they don't sell over here like Renault's and Pugeot's, just because they're small, butt ugly things.

 

[homeforsummer]

The environment will be polluted one way or the other anyways.

With that attitude, yes it will.

I blame "car enthusiast" media to be honest, they've turned so many people into these anti-everything "enthusiast". Anti-FWD, anti-automatic, anti-hybrid, anti-eco-friendly, anti-whatever else you can throw it here. Top Gear is probably the worse offender of it, and I've often said Top Gear has made the car world stupid.

I think a true car enthusiast should be able to appreciate all kinds of cars. I wish more journalist would write like you do with your articles since you understand the world isn't all about big, shouty, RWD sports cars.

Thank you. And quite. I'd lay a guarantee that 95% of the people who hate the Prius haven't driven it. The other 5% who have driven it and dislike it can be taken a little more seriously, though only if they're not judging it on criteria they'd judge a sports car.

It's not a particularly interesting car to drive. But then, most journeys aren't particularly interesting either in actuality, so why waste your gas driving something interesting? I've said before - a Prius would make quite a nice car for the daily grind, and I'd have something fun tucked away for the weekend blasts.

The CMax gets better economy than the Prius V on-paper, but not in the real world. Though there are other reasons to get a CMax.

Indeed, the C-Max and Fusion hybrids are being investigated by the EPA as owners are getting figures about 25% less than those advertised. Cars are often a little way off official figures, but 25% is excessive.

Plenty of other fuel efficient cars manage to get good fuel economy without sacrificing the other 99 things that make a car a car.

Who are you to judge what makes a car a car, though?

Look, I can completely understand not liking the Prius for being dull, or slow, or whatever. I'm a car enthusiast too, I love speed, I love cars that handle, I like beautiful styling, all of that stuff.

But I'm not too myopic to see that some people (i.e. millions of people) simply don't want all that in a car. They want a car solely to go from A to B, to be as anonymous as possible, to be unfailingly reliable, and to get good gas mileage. It's everything they want from a car, rather than everything you want - and judging a car you'll never buy on criteria irrelevant to the people who do buy the car makes little sense.

Again, plently of other cars manage to do all of it. What comes to mind? The Volt, the Camry Hybrid, the Leaf, the ES 300h. Better looks, more fun, better interior, etc. etc. etc.

That's a very eclectic mix, but you've also chosen a bunch of vehicles that are significantly more expensive. At the Prius' price point (low $20ks) there's nothing to touch it for economy, which is why so many people buy them.

And it for sure isn't "things that the people who buy them don't care about"

I've heard complaints from a 68 year old woman that her Prius was so slow, she had to practically floor it to safely merge onto the highway.

So you're using anecdotal evidence from one single owner to debunk my point? Sorry, that doesn't wash. Toyota has sold millions of Prius. I'm sure some people don't like them, but a vast majority of Prius owners go on to buy... another Prius. Or even upgrade to another Toyota/Lexus product, since they like the technology.

And the ones I've ridden in have had an absolutely horrendous ride. And don't even get me started with that stupid CVT.

I'll agree, the ride isn't brilliant (I'd not say it's "stupidly horrendous" though - I've ridden in plenty of similarly-sized cars that are worse).

And go on then, humor me - why is the CVT "stupid"?

Sure, it will take 150,000 miles to break even on your fuel cost, but for some people, that's their interest

That, of course, depends on what you're comparing it against. A base-model, 50mpg Prius may be much more expensive than a base-model, 29mpg Corolla, so the difference would take a fair while to pay off in gas money.

But that isn't really the way people shop for cars. People have a budget, and they go out and spend it. Someone with $22k to spend probably won't go and buy a $16k Corolla, but they might buy a $20k Corolla - or cross shop it with the $22k Prius, which still gets 21mpg more, so those savings will start a lot sooner.

Most cars from the '90s & 2000's, Dodge Neons, Caravan, Stratus, Saturn's, Geo's, any Honda's, Toyota or Mazda, new Malibu's, Cobalt's, even the stuff they don't sell over here like Renault's and Pugeot's, just because they're small, butt ugly things.

I... I... nope, I'm not even sure where to start with this one...

 

[XS]

The Nissan Juke. I'm not gonna post a picture because I'm not going to pay for anyone's hospital bill.

I'll post one. Only Nismo wedged a GT-R engine in it. I present the ugly, but bonkers Juke-R.

 

[Onbail]

All electricity and hybrid based vehicles.

 

[Mike Rotch]

All electricity and hybrid based vehicles.

Yea, what were they thinking:

Kind of a "sweeping generalisation" if ever there was one, but your's to make.

 

[AudiMan2011]

The biggest problem I have with hybrids here in the UK like the Prius and Insight, is that they are priced out of the equation to be considered a viable option against conventional diesel cars, and in terms of real world economy, hybrids are quite pathetic if they can get 50 mpg in real world conditions in Britain, compared to 60-70 mpg that an equivalent diesel can manage in the same conditions. The same goes for ER-EVs such as the Chevrolet Volt and Vauxhall/Opel Ampera (which is actually quite a good car in my opinion).

 

[Articuno]

Yea, what were they thinking:

-picture-

Kind of a "sweeping generalisation" if ever there was one, but your's to make.

And this:

 

[homeforsummer]

The biggest problem I have with hybrids here in the UK like the Prius and Insight, is that they are priced out of the equation to be considered a viable option against conventional diesel cars, and in terms of real world economy, hybrids are quite pathetic if they can get 50 mpg in real world conditions in Britain, compared to 60-70 mpg that an equivalent diesel can manage in the same conditions. The same goes for ER-EVs such as the Chevrolet Volt and Vauxhall/Opel Ampera (which is actually quite a good car in my opinion).

For the record, I've only ever driven two diesels which have ever averaged over 60mpg over a decent distance. One of them is a 1.1 Kia Rio, the other is the Smart Fortwo Cdi. Unless you do around 60mph all day long, you're unlikely to see above 50-55mpg in the vast majority of diesels - both big and small, since the big ones are... well, big, and the small ones actually need to work fairly hard to keep up a reasonable lick.

For comparison, the best MPG I've ever got from a non-plugin car over a few hundred miles was 76mpg (6mpg better than the diesel smart), from a Toyota Yaris Hybrid. The Yaris costs a little more than the aforementioned Kia, but runs on a cheaper fuel, got better economy, and has better performance.

I'm not defending all hybrids, but a lot of the claims made about diesel economy are equally as bollocks as claims made about hybrid economy - the only difference is, people seem more willing to believe the diesel ones...

 

[niky]

Diesels can maybe match or exceed hybrids on the highway, maybe, but only the really lightweight diesels can match them in traffic. No diesel of the same size and performance as the Prius can match it in traffic.

I recall when the Prius lost an economy run in traffic to a diesel, it was to a Getz. That thing is pretty small.
Also terrible to drive. Horrible engine mounts leading to shift-shock and vibration. I actually like the gasoline Getz better.

 

[homeforsummer]

Missed this one before:

It's not the fact that it has a CVT, it's the quality and intelligence of the CVT.

That's a doozy. Would love to hear you explain how the "quality and intelligence" of the CVT is somehow worse than others.

 

[Joey D]

Everything you've just said is either irrelevant or untrue. First of all, have you ever sat in a Volt? Or are you just blind?

Several times, a guy on our race team works in the battery lab at GM and always has one as an evaluation vehicle. The interior is really average. I never said it was bad, it's just nothing to write home or jump up and down about. It's really not that different from the Prius in that its attempting to look futuristic and will just look dated in 10 years.

Should we look at 0-60 times?

What on earth do 0-60 times have to do with anything? They are fairly meaningless in anything other than a discussion about sports cars.

Which is my point. I don't have a vendetta against Toyota, I own a Toyota. My beef is with the Prius. If they can make something as good as the Camry Hybrid, then why are there still so many problems with the Prius?

What problems? All you've pointed out is that it's slow from 0-60 which is completely meaningless.

That's a doozy. Would love to hear you explain how the "quality and intelligence" of the CVT is somehow worse than others.

It's probably the shifting, it feels like it stays in gear for a day and a half.

 

[Pagey279]

First of all, I apologize for the incorrect Prius time. I went back to my source and realized I had typed 2003 rather than 2013.

Either way, its still multiple seconds slower than all of those competitors.

Secondly, all of those other non hybrid cars I wasn't using as examples of competitors, I was using them as examples of average cars. I was making the point that the Prius obviously doesn't accelerate as well as an average car, nor does it accelerate as well as its competitors.

Your placing this much focus on 0-60 times?!? It's an economy car, 0-60 times are completely and utterly irrelevant when discussing the Prius.

 

[alfiD]

With that attitude, yes it will.

I wasn't being negative. It is just that when there is a new way to prevent pollution, it just prevents it in a certain area, and pollutes else where. For example, in a local city to where I live at, they banned plastic bags, and you can get a paper bag at ten cents. Supposedly This will prevent pollution and trash and stuff. Here is the problem. These politicians who did this, didn't bother doing their research. The production of paper bags actually creates more pollution. http://www.projectgreenbag.com/paper-bag-are-no-better-than-plastic/

http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/green-science/paper-plastic1.htm

http://www.reuseit.com/learn-more/myth-busting/why-paper-is-no-better-than-plastic

Those are a couple links that are found on a quick search on Google, something the politicians lack the ability to do. So it is not that I do not care about the environment, it is just that I don't think the people who have the power to do something about it care. It seems they only care about their money and political agendas. Will my recycling make a difference? Who knows.

 

[Goshin2568]

What on earth do 0-60 times have to do with anything? They are fairly meaningless in anything other than a discussion about sports cars.

Your placing this much focus on 0-60 times?!? It's an economy car, 0-60 times are completely and utterly irrelevant when discussing the Prius.

They are perfectly relevant. My entire complaint with the Prius is that it is only good at one thing. It focuses so much on fuel economy that there have had to be compromises in every other area.

It's the same as when people complain that some hardcore sports cars are useless in the real world. There will always be that one person who says "It's a sports car, it doesn't need to be practical and usable in the real world." The point is, it's not pointless and irrelevant, because unless you plan on towing your sports car to every fun road or track, you are going to have to use it. Cars have to be good at more than one thing.

That's a doozy. Would love to hear you explain how the "quality and intelligence" of the CVT is somehow worse than others.

Answers half the question right here:

It's probably the shifting, it feels like it stays in gear for a day and a half.

It's just not as good as others I've been in/driven. Toyota's is better than Subaru's, by a long ways, but it's not as good as Nissan's, or even Honda's.

The "average" car would be something roughly the same size as the Prius with the same footprint. Which would be the Corolla class... a class in which most automatics get to 60 in 9-10 seconds.

You can't just make up a car and call it the "average car". I took a wide variety of cars with wide variety of engines, all faster than the Prius.

So no, not multiple seconds faster. Not really.

Multiple seconds faster than the Lexus, Leaf, and Camry Hybrid.

Thank you. And quite. I'd lay a guarantee that 95% of the people who hate the Prius haven't driven it. The other 5% who have driven it and dislike it can be taken a little more seriously, though only if they're not judging it on criteria they'd judge a sports car.

I actually have driven a Prius. And I still don't like it. And I am not trying to compare it against a sports car. But the question remains, if you are trying so hard to save money, why are you spending $23-40k on a car, and if you have plenty of money, but want to save the planet, or whatever, than why not choose a Volt? Or a Camry Hybrid? You will get something better looking, better to drive, better riding, more space, and on and on.

And if we're talking direct competitors for the Prius... the one direct competitor it has (same price, same size, nearly the same economy... but not quite) is the Civic Hybrid, which is less economical and a second slower to 60.

I don't think you are very well in touch with the Prius' market. I would say I've met about 8 or 9 Prius owners, and none of them were choosing between a Prius and Civic Hybrid. Or a Prius and whatever other car that's in it's price point. People who buy Priuses (Prii?) are people who set out to buy a super fuel efficient car. And the only reason they chose the Prius was its cheaper batteries, or because it was the "cool thing to do", or because they thought they were saving the planet.

Again, I will liken it to a sports car, or a luxury car. No one is trying to decide between a $60k Porsche Boxster and a $60k Mercedes E350. Being at the same price point doesn't mean they are competitors. The Prius being cheaper than a Leaf, Volt, etc. doesn't mean that's not exactly what potential buyers are comparing it against.

That, of course, depends on what you're comparing it against. A base-model, 50mpg Prius may be much more expensive than a base-model, 29mpg Corolla, so the difference would take a fair while to pay off in gas money.

But that isn't really the way people shop for cars. People have a budget, and they go out and spend it. Someone with $22k to spend probably won't go and buy a $16k Corolla, but they might buy a $20k Corolla - or cross shop it with the $22k Prius, which still gets 21mpg more, so those savings will start a lot sooner.

It's the same point I made above. That's all good and well in theory, but I guarentee, no one (maybe 5% of Prius buyers) is shopping a $22k Corolla with a $22k Prius.

Look, I can completely understand not liking the Prius for being dull, or slow, or whatever. I'm a car enthusiast too, I love speed, I love cars that handle, I like beautiful styling, all of that stuff.

But I'm not too myopic to see that some people (i.e. millions of people) simply don't want all that in a car. They want a car solely to go from A to B, to be as anonymous as possible, to be unfailingly reliable, and to get good gas mileage. It's everything they want from a car, rather than everything you want - and judging a car you'll never buy on criteria irrelevant to the people who do buy the car makes little sense.

And why do they need a Prius for that?

 

[Slash]

Most cars from the '90s & 2000's, Dodge Neons, Caravan, Stratus, Saturn's, Geo's, any Honda's, Toyota or Mazda, new Malibu's, Cobalt's, even the stuff they don't sell over here like Renault's and Pugeot's, just because they're small, butt ugly things.

This.

 

[homeforsummer]

Answers half the question right here:

It's just not as good as others I've been in/driven. Toyota's is better than Subaru's, by a long ways, but it's not as good as Nissan's, or even Honda's.

Yes, I'm quite sure Joey was joking there, but regardless...

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the Prius's CVT. It's not a CVT in the traditional sense of the word anyway - more a planetary gearset that can vary the amount of power used between the engine and electric drive motor. There's nothing inherently wrong with it - it does its job efficiently and incredibly reliably (more so than a traditional CVT, in fact).

Generally, the only people who complain about CVTs are those who floor the gas everywhere and then wondering why it makes a din. Driven normally (i.e. for the Prius, a little slower with economy in mind) you barely ever hear the engine.

Of course, CVTs are better with a bit more power under your right foot as when you do need to accelerate they spend less time being noisy, but really it's not a big deal.

I actually have driven a Prius.

I can't help feeling you'd have mentioned that before now if you'd actually driven it, given the context of the conversation, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt...

But the question remains, if you are trying so hard to save money, why are you spending $23-40k on a car, and if you have plenty of money, but want to save the planet, or whatever, than why not choose a Volt? Or a Camry Hybrid? You will get something better looking, better to drive, better riding, more space, and on and on.

For exactly the price reasons I mentioned earlier. Which leads me on to...

It's the same point I made above. That's all good and well in theory, but I guarentee, no one (maybe 5% of Prius buyers) is shopping a $22k Corolla with a $22k Prius.

If you don't think that's what happens, then you're not particularly aware of the market.

People won't necessarily cross shop a Corolla and Prius - that was just to illustrate my point. But generally, they'll shop in the same price bracket. If you have $22k to spend on an economical car, you'll likely be looking at Prius and Civic Hybrids. You're not likely to be looking at $11k Versas, nor are you likely to raise your budget to $40k for a Volt. The Volt may well be (and is) a better car, but it's utterly unrealistic to say "why not buy it, then" if someone doesn't have the money.

I'd absolutely love to cross-shop Ferraris with my usual one-grand car purchases, but sadly I can't always raise the extra dosh...

And why do they need a Prius for that?

Because it serves their needs the best?

We've already established your criteria for choosing a car is completely different from that of the average Prius buyer, and we've also established you're not entirely sure how budgeting works. What makes you suppose you know the needs of other people better than they know their own needs?

It's very simple: The Prius isn't particularly expensive as hybrids go. It's fairly practical (four doors, hatchback, decent boot, decent interior space - you do realise the Prius has only a little less passenger volume, and more cargo space than the Camry you keep pushing, right? And more space for both passengers and cargo than the Volt?), incredibly reliable, very cheap to run and very easy to drive. They all sound like worthy characteristics to me, even if they don't float your own boat...

 

[Jet Badger]

This.

Probably not because they're small and not because they're all ugly but because neither of those is an overpowered truck?

 

[Slash]

Probably not because they're small and not because they're all ugly but because neither of those is an overpowered truck?

No because they have absolutely no appeal to my tastes, what so ever. Just because it's not a truck doesn't mean I automatically write it off. I actually like cars believe it or not, I just don't like those in particular. That said, I do drive a Caravan, and the only thing I really like about it is the fact I can haul a ton of people around. That's it.