cars you hate, vent out your anger here

[Pupik]

Probably not because they're small and not because they're all ugly but because neither of those is an overpowered truck?

It's because no Fords were harmed in the construction of his post (except maybe a Mazda Navajo).

 

[Slash]

It's because no Fords were harmed in the construction of his post (except maybe a Mazda Navajo).

I could care less if there were Fords in it. Not every Ford built is the greatest thing in the world, there are plenty of terrible models and things that Ford has built that I really dislike. '90s Escorts? Probe?

 

[oopssorryy]

I still fail to see why 0 to 60 masters in the Prius. A 35 to 65 would be a better stat. The Prius can get you from a to b everyday cheaply, and do it for a long time. This it's all some ask of their car, so why is it so bad?

I hate 90s USDM cars, larger trucks are excluded, but Rangers, S10s and threw Tarus's of the world can eat it.

 

[Goshin2568]

If you don't think that's what happens, then you're not particularly aware of the market.

I could say the same for you.

People won't necessarily cross shop a Corolla and Prius - that was just to illustrate my point. But generally, they'll shop in the same price bracket. If you have $22k to spend on an economical car, you'll likely be looking at Prius and Civic Hybrids. You're not likely to be looking at $11k Versas, nor are you likely to raise your budget to $40k for a Volt. The Volt may well be (and is) a better car, but it's utterly unrealistic to say "why not buy it, then" if someone doesn't have the money.

I'd absolutely love to cross-shop Ferraris with my usual one-grand car purchases, but sadly I can't always raise the extra dosh...

You are treating the Prius as if it is just your everyday sedan that happens to get 60 mpg. It's not. As much as people push it's sales numbers, it's still in a niche market. Average people don't consider the Prius when they are thinking of buying cars. Quote "If you have $22k to spend on an economical car..." Compared to the whole market, there really aren't that many people looking for $22k economical cars.

 

[E28]

You are treating the Prius as if it is just your everyday sedan that happens to get 60 mpg. It's not. As much as people push it's sales numbers, it's still in a niche market. Average people don't consider the Prius when they are thinking of buying cars. Quote "If you have $22k to spend on an economical car..." Compared to the whole market, there really aren't that many people looking for $22k economical cars.

Many people take fuel economy into account, at least here in the UK. People can often afford to buy, say, a BMW 330d, but go for a 320d because of the better fuel economy.

If you're looking for a car around $22k, you're probably going to want something that is fairly economical, both criteria the Prius fits well. And 'average people' don't care that it's slow, and that it only does 0-60 in however many seconds. The Prius is a pretty average car (in my opinion) the only 'unusual' things about it are the fact it's a hybrid and that it gets more miles to the gallon than other cars around it's price range.

 

[Joey D]

They are perfectly relevant. My entire complaint with the Prius is that it is only good at one thing. It focuses so much on fuel economy that there have had to be compromises in every other area.

It's the same as when people complain that some hardcore sports cars are useless in the real world. There will always be that one person who says "It's a sports car, it doesn't need to be practical and usable in the real world." The point is, it's not pointless and irrelevant, because unless you plan on towing your sports car to every fun road or track, you are going to have to use it. Cars have to be good at more than one thing.

0-60 time is still pretty meaningless and as I've said, I ride in a Prius all the time since that's what the cabs are in Madison, it gets up to speed on the freeway with no issues. It's not a sports car, nor does it claim to be one. It's meant to move people and their crap while using the least amount of fuel.

And I still haven't really seen a reason as to why the Prius is bad other than it's slow, which we are all in agreement with and has no bearing on whether the car is good or not. Focusing on fuel economy is the point of the car, so that's not really a strike against it and it's priced fairly average so that's not really an issue either.

The car is fairly dull, but then again the market it's going after isn't really looking for something exciting to drive. That's why Honda created the CR-Z, to get the hybrid buyer that wanted something sportier.

Answers half the question right here:

I was joking, CVT's essentially don't shift and do feel like they are in one gear because essentially they are.

I actually have driven a Prius. And I still don't like it. And I am not trying to compare it against a sports car. But the question remains, if you are trying so hard to save money, why are you spending $23-40k on a car, and if you have plenty of money, but want to save the planet, or whatever, than why not choose a Volt? Or a Camry Hybrid? You will get something better looking, better to drive, better riding, more space, and on and on.

A Volt is much more expensive than a Prius is considering it starts at nearly $40,000, even the plug-in Prius only starts at $32,000. The Camry is nearly the same starting price as a Prius, but it's still about $1,500 more expensive. Also some people need a hatchback and not a sedan, which would be one reason to choose a Prius over a Camry Hybrid.

If you throw the Prius C in there it's even cheaper still starting at a mere $19,000.

I don't think you are very well in touch with the Prius' market. I would say I've met about 8 or 9 Prius owners, and none of them were choosing between a Prius and Civic Hybrid. Or a Prius and whatever other car that's in it's price point. People who buy Priuses (Prii?) are people who set out to buy a super fuel efficient car. And the only reason they chose the Prius was its cheaper batteries, or because it was the "cool thing to do", or because they thought they were saving the planet.

I don't think you're in touch with the Prius market at all either since you seem fixated on 0-60 times.

You are treating the Prius as if it is just your everyday sedan that happens to get 60 mpg. It's not. As much as people push it's sales numbers, it's still in a niche market. Average people don't consider the Prius when they are thinking of buying cars. Quote "If you have $22k to spend on an economical car..." Compared to the whole market, there really aren't that many people looking for $22k economical cars.

You've seen the prices of economy cars right? $22k or more is what you're going to expect to pay unless you want something with zero options on it. My Focus was well into the mid $20k and I could have pushed it further with about 6 other check boxes.

 

[Lizard]

I have a hatred for all Vauxhalls. I think you can get better for the same money from other brands.

 

[parksideu14]

I have a hatred for all Vauxhalls. I think you can get better for the same money from other brands.

That's strange as a girl I know holds the same hatred of Vauxhalls.

 

[Joey D]

That's strange as a girl I know holds the same hatred of Vauxhalls.

I know three, fat, British guys on TV that hold the same sentiment too.

 

[Goshin2568]

The only reason I brought up 0-60 times is you claimed it "got up to speed like any other car". I definitely am not "fixated on 0-60 times" .

My point is, it's a big jump from a 'normal' car to a hybrid, and and even bigger jump from a hybrid to something like a Prius. And it's one that most people aren't ready to make willy nilly. I guarantee most people out there don't say "Should we have the Altima, the Fusion, the Accord, or the Prius?" You don't read a comparison in Car and Driver comparing the Prius and the Malibu. It's in it's own category, and only people with very specific needs buy one. It just happens to be with current fuel prices that there are more people in that niche than there used to be. That doesn't mean the Prius has become a common, normal car.


And in regards to the CVT, I wouldn't exactly say they "feel like they are in one gear." Maybe they've moved on in the last year or two, but the cars I've been in/driven with CVT's, including the Prius, either are incredibly noisy, not really very smooth, and/or more unresponsive than I would expect.

 

[Joey D]

The only reason I brought up 0-60 times is you claimed it "got up to speed like any other car". Which, clearly, it doesn't looking at the times. I definitely am not "fixated on 0-60 times" .

What I actually said:

I'm also not sure what that 68 year old women was driving, but I'm guessing she didn't know how to drive. I ride in a Prius several times a week and it feels exactly like any other average car I've been in. It's never once gotten ran over on the freeway, it gets up to speed just fine and it even drives through the snow just fine. Plus with it being easy on fuel my cab fares tend to be slightly cheaper too.

I've never said that it got up to speed like any other car, I said that it gets up to speed just fine, meaning that it can hit 70mph at the end of an on-ramp and pull away from the lights without getting run over by the car behind it. I acknowledge the Prius is slow and slower than a similar sized vehicle, like my Focus for example, but I fail to see how that makes the car in anyway bad. If Toyota was advertising it as a sports car then sure.

And your entire reasoning for hating on the Prius has been it's poor 0-60 times, so it seems to me that you're pretty fixated with the subject matter.

My point is, it's a big jump from a 'normal' car to a hybrid, and and even bigger jump from a hybrid to something like a Prius. And it's one that most people aren't ready to make willy nilly. I guarantee most people out there don't say "Should we have the Altima, the Fusion, the Accord, or the Prius?" You don't read a comparison in Car and Driver comparing the Prius and the Malibu. It's in it's own category, and only people with very specific needs buy one. It just happens to be with current fuel prices that there are more people in that niche than there used to be. That doesn't mean the Prius has become a common, normal car.

When I say it feels average, I'm saying that the Prius just feels like a normal car that isn't terribly exciting, but then again all Toyota's are that way. You get a beige car that's going to suit your needs just fine.

And you're right, the market for the Prius is a niche one, and guess what? That niche market doesn't care about 0-60 times. They want the best fuel economy for the least amount of money, which the Prius offers in many markets.

 

[Duman079]

I hate the Mazda MX-5

I love the MX-5


I can't really hate a car, because every car has an owner, that would make you hate them too, or at least that would hurt their feelings imo lol.

I just don't like cars with three wheels lol. I think every stock car could look better when it is made costum.

 

[Slash]

I love the MX-5


I can't really hate a car, because every car has an owner, that would make you hate them too, or at least that would hurt their feelings imo lol.

I just don't like cars with three wheels lol. I think every stock car could look better when it is made costum.

This. However, I like 3 wheeled ATV's.

 

[Goshin2568]

And your entire reasoning for hating on the Prius has been it's poor 0-60 times, so it seems to me that you're pretty fixated with the subject matter.

Now who is misquoting? That isn't my entire reasoning for hating the Prius. It's just an example to show that the Prius is a one-trick pony. And cars need to be more than that. I hate a lot of cars that are only good at one thing. The Prius just happens to be one of those.

And you're right, the market for the Prius is a niche one, and guess what? That niche market doesn't care about 0-60 times. They want the best fuel economy for the least amount of money, which the Prius offers in many markets.

And if that's their only criteria, then the Prius suits them just fine. But I think "good economy, kind of low price, brand new" represents a very small amount of actual Prius owners or potential owners, and the majority of them can do much better with another choice. I think the popularity of it has caused many people to get it just because they didn't research their options.

 

[Joey D]

Now who is misquoting? That isn't my entire reasoning for hating the Prius. It's just an example to show that the Prius is a one-trick pony. And cars need to be more than that. I hate a lot of cars that are only good at one thing. The Prius just happens to be one of those.

I'm not sure how it's misquoting, all I've seen from your posts is that the Prius is bad because it doesn't do anything and is slow. Your main argument has been based on 0-60 times from what I can tell. All I got to work with is what you've been posting.

And you realize the Prius is a one trick pony because that's what it was designed to do right? It's sole purpose in life is to transport people and their crap while getting good fuel economy. But really most cars are one trick ponies and only do one or two things really well, while the rest is average.

And if that's their only criteria, then the Prius suits them just fine. But I think "good economy, kind of low price, brand new" represents a very small amount of actual Prius owners or potential owners, and the majority of them can do much better with another choice. I think the popularity of it has caused many people to get it just because they didn't research their options.

If you research out your options, the Prius is an excellent car for those who are in the market for a compact car that gets good fuel economy and has decent cargo room all for a good price. The C-Max is the closest thing to it, and it's more expensive and Ford probably exaggerated the fuel economy claims. Other than that, there's not really much in the way that competes with the Prius.

 

[astrosdude91]

The Lamborghini Gallardo is a one trick pony. Sure it's fast, but what else is it good at? Nothing. Terrible ride, terrible fuel economy, terrible storage space. Cars need to be more than that. Do you also hate the Gallardo?

 

[McLaren]

The Lamborghini Gallardo is a one trick pony. Sure it's fast, but what else is it good at? Nothing. Terrible ride, terrible fuel economy, terrible storage space. Cars need to be more than that. Do you also hate the Gallardo?

So, you hate every supercar above $200,000. Mkay....

 

[Goshin2568]

The Lamborghini Gallardo is a one trick pony. Sure it's fast, but what else is it good at? Nothing. Terrible ride, terrible fuel economy, terrible storage space. Cars need to be more than that. Do you also hate the Gallardo?

It's fast, it's fun, it handles well, fuel economy is not bad at all (something like 16 combined), and it's very comfortable. Ride and storage space count against it, but they're not exactly terrible. It might not be best in class, but it's definitely more than a one-trick pony.

 

[AMCNUT]

*Prius debate*

Well, I'd just like to chip in and say that thanks to the (not just automotive) press at large, the average person is pretty much told that they are not allowed to be ambivalent about the Prius; they must either worship it or hate it. Obviously that's not true, but nevertheless our culture has dictated that there should be no fence-sitting on the issue. That, I think, is one of the real tragedies.

Like some of the others have said, the Prius is good at it's stated purpose in life - the fact that it's not a sports car is merely a byproduct of it being tailored to a different set of requirements. Requirements, incidentally, that have proved popular enough to keep redesigning and selling it for ten years now. There's no reason to really dislike a car purely on the grounds that it's tailored to someone else's set of interests.

 

[Nessy]

It's fast, it's fun, it handles well, fuel economy is not bad at all (something like 16 combined), and it's very comfortable. Ride and storage space count against it, but they're not exactly terrible. It might not be best in class, but it's definitely more than a one-trick pony.

So basically it does performance/super-car things, gives crap fuel economy and only has 2 seats... Sounds like a one trick pony, to me.

 

[homeforsummer]

I could say the same for you.

I should hope not. I'm paid to write about cars and car sales on a daily basis. I've spent a hell of a lot of time talking to people who actually buy cars as a result.

You are treating the Prius as if it is just your everyday sedan that happens to get 60 mpg. It's not.

You're right. It gets 50 mpg...

As much as people push it's sales numbers, it's still in a niche market.

Sorry, that doesn't wash. We're talking about a car which has contributed to 4 million Toyota and Lexus hybrid sales globally, and a car which has sold over a million in the U.S. alone (and that was almost two years ago). The Prius nameplate is the third best-selling car line in the world, behind the Corolla and the Focus, both of which are also sold globally.

It really isn't a niche market vehicle any more. Maybe a decade ago, but not now. It's largely irrelevant that it's a hybrid any more - it's become so ubiquitous that it's just another car, one that happens to be one of the more economical and reliable vehicles on sale.

Average people don't consider the Prius when they are thinking of buying cars.

Quote "If you have $22k to spend on an economical car..." Compared to the whole market, there really aren't that many people looking for $22k economical cars.

How on earth do you come to that conclusion? Are you basing it on anything at all, or have you just decided that since you don't like the Prius, nobody else must consider it either?

 

[niky]

You can't just make up a car and call it the "average car". I took a wide variety of cars with wide variety of engines, all faster than the Prius.

Wait... so the best-selling engine-transmission combo on the best-selling car in America is not an average car? Toyota figures that the base 2.5 automatic will be the big volume seller for the new model, simply because it was the volume seller for the old one.

You can't get any more average than that. You want average bread? You want white bread. Not bagels, raisin bread and chocolate swirl.

Multiple seconds slower than the Lexus, Leaf, and Camry Hybrid.

$10k more expensive, $10k more expensive, smaller and with a very limited range, nearly the same price but nowhere near as economical.

I don't think you are very well in touch with the Prius' market. I would say I've met about 8 or 9 Prius owners, and none of them were choosing between a Prius and Civic Hybrid. Or a Prius and whatever other car that's in it's price point. People who buy Priuses (Prii?) are people who set out to buy a super fuel efficient car. And the only reason they chose the Prius was its cheaper batteries, or because it was the "cool thing to do", or because they thought they were saving the planet.

A Prius does not make sense from an absolute money saving point of view, as if all you wanted to do was save money and the environment, you'd buy a bicycle and call it a day.

I'm on several eco-websites, with a number of Prius owners. A lot of them are serial Prius owners. A lot of them are tech-heads. And surprisingly, a lot of them have done the math on the economy versus actual savings.

But a lot of them are also ordinary people who like what they are getting: See, a 3rd Generation Prius is large, comfortable and convenient. That's more than enough for most owners. I would never buy one, but then I would never buy a Camry, either.

And yet Toyota sells millions of each. They're both nice cars if all you need is something comfortable to commute in. I've driven several Prii. The older ones were tin boxes, but the current one is a very nice place to be in (apart from the nits I mentioned earlier) and it's absolutely painless to drive and ride in.

-

If you're going to hate it, hate it simply because the steering and handling are crap. But it does what it's supposed to do very well. If there's a hybrid that really needs hating, the Civic Hybrid is slower, gets worse economy (and even worse after the ECU reflash) and has a CVT of glass.

Of course, people don't really hate the Civic Hybrid. Because it's not a Prius.

 

[Pupik]

The Lamborghini Gallardo is a one trick pony. Sure it's fast, but what else is it good at? Nothing. Terrible ride, terrible fuel economy, terrible storage space. Cars need to be more than that. Do you also hate the Gallardo?

Ah, but many of its buyers are captivated by its looks, and/or the attention it might receive. Two trick bull, perhaps?

 

[GT'S BiG FaN]

That awful hideous nasty Chrysler PT Cruiser.

 

[Guardian]

That awful hideous nasty Chrysler PT Cruiser.

Another personal favourite of mine (really).
I do however detest the rear-end of this monstrosity...

Really vile.

 

[Joey D]

So, you hate every supercar above $200,000. Mkay....

I'm pretty sure astro was just using the Gallardo as an example while pointing out the absurd one-trick pony logic.

 

[wrapture]

Another personal favourite of mine (really).
I do however detest the rear-end of this monstrosity...

Really vile.

I love the Crossfire! There are 2 or 3 near me.

 

[Goshin2568]

Sorry, that doesn't wash. We're talking about a car which has contributed to 4 million Toyota and Lexus hybrid sales globally, and a car which has sold over a million in the U.S. alone (and that was almost two years ago). The Prius nameplate is the third best-selling car line in the world, behind the Corolla and the Focus, both of which are also sold globally.

It really isn't a niche market vehicle any more. Maybe a decade ago, but not now. It's largely irrelevant that it's a hybrid any more - it's become so ubiquitous that it's just another car, one that happens to be one of the more economical and reliable vehicles on sale.



How on earth do you come to that conclusion? Are you basing it on anything at all, or have you just decided that since you don't like the Prius, nobody else must consider it either?

I guess that's where our opinion differs. If that's how you really think the general population looks at Priuses, or even hybrids in general, than your viewpoint makes sense. In my experience, from the things I've read and the people I've talked to, that is not the case. I believe most people buying the Prius are either eco-nuts or serious fuel misers who believe they are too good just to buy an old CRX.

Wait... so the best-selling engine-transmission combo on the best-selling car in America is not an average car? Toyota figures that the base 2.5 automatic will be the big volume seller for the new model, simply because it was the volume seller for the old one.

No. Given a set of data, mean and mode are not the same thing. If I recall, the Ford F150 is the 2nd most sold car ever, but would you call that an average car?

If you're going to hate it, hate it simply because the steering and handling are crap. But it does what it's supposed to do very well. If there's a hybrid that really needs hating, the Civic Hybrid is slower, gets worse economy (and even worse after the ECU reflash) and has a CVT of glass.

Of course, people don't really hate the Civic Hybrid. Because it's not a Prius.

I do hate the Civic Hybrid. It's a terrible car and a terrible choice if you want a hybrid. But at least it's a 🤬 sight better looking than the Prius.

 

[homeforsummer]

In my experience, from the things I've read and the people I've talked to, that is not the case.

Look at the numbers again: These aren't opinions, these are facts. I'm yet to see you produce any to the contrary.

I believe most people buying the Prius are either eco-nuts or serious fuel misers who believe they are too good just to buy an old CRX.

Then you believe wrongly. Again: We're talking millions of owners here. Some are undoubtedly "eco-nuts", though even that could be called into question now there are more overtly "eco" cars on the market - like Volts, Leafs, Teslas etc. But to suggest that "most" of them are is nonsensical.

That you then make the comparison with a tin box from the 1980s shows how far out of touch with reality you are.

These people are really buying a Prius instead of old CRXs, simply for its green image? Rather than the two decades of safety advances, two decades of refinement advances, two decades of equipment advances, proper interior room, proper rear seats, proper luggage space, performance not at all dissimilar to those early 50mpg CRXs, new vehicle warranties, un-rusty bodyshells and other things?

I'm amazed you have the gall to suggest I'm the one out of touch with the market, with mindless comments like that.

 

[ADzstat]

That awful hideous nasty Chrysler PT Cruiser.

No no no that's what car I got in real life it's a sexy best pumping out 365bhp I love it to death do us part lol