Datamined car list

[Samus]

But aren't you publishing GT leaks yourself for Twitter clout? And are your leaks helping "the game's current development, future preservation and modding possibilities?"

The "pot calling the kettle black" idiom comes to mind.

Nonetheless, this situation is on PD - it makes it seem like they haven't even heard about version control systems.

 

[Nenkai]

But aren't you publishing GT leaks yourself for Twitter clout? And are your leaks helping "the game's current development, future preservation and modding possibilities?"

The "pot calling the kettle black" idiom comes to mind.

Nonetheless, this situation is on PD - it makes it seem like they haven't even heard about version control systems.

Let me correct you with that; the information that I personally share, is not, by any sorts of means, "leaks" to the game's future plans, let alone threatening to the game. The fundamental difference is one person being reasonable regarding acquiring information that is very sensitive to the game and how it is being made use of. Actually, as one would notice as I have repeated through that same very place, I do not share that sort of information, besides daily races by the way - is not even core content - as it is provided much more easily that one might think. At best, and as I have stated above, I do provide "heads up" on the current shape of the game.

As a player like any other, I have had my own share of frustration regarding playing GT7 and I see no problems being communicative whilist cryptic to help filling this gap. But this is a line not to cross by any means. The person behind this leak does not even have access to the game as we know it, being locked behind offline mode. Therefore their only motive is to gain attraction.

Between aforementioned potential problems and making people potentially obsessed into seeing content that may never come through content creators widespreading this, causing yet even more unnecessary outcry towards them at arguably one of the moments where the game is struggling to find its pace, I think we've had enough on our plate. It's time to be considerate about this.

 

[ToyGTone]

I partially understand why developers don't like to see their planned work getting leaked publicly and i fully understand why individuals like Nenkai don't want to leak that sort of things (tightened restrictions, modding, legal lawsuit...etc).


On the other hand, however, why would Polyphony Digital be so threatened by the idea that some kid might find out that they might consider adding a 12 year old Lexus LFA in the game within the future? If anything, it probably brought more hype to the game than anything else since launch. I somewhat get that it's something that no developer or company wants to deal with but if it's something like a car or track list then no harm is done to anyone. And besides, leaks been happening left and right within the current gaming world, this is literally nothing in comparison.

Once again, i fully understand and respect why data miners don't want to leak all of this out. I just think that PDI shouldn't be too anal about small things like that and instead should focus on improving their game and communicating with fans.

 

[Suzuki-Cara]

On the other hand, however, why would Polyphony Digital be so threatened by the idea that some kid might find out that they might consider adding a 12 year old Lexus LFA in the game within the future?

Devil's advocate. I'd think somewhere down the line, PD might unveil a car with said car's actual unveiling to the public, akin to the C7 corvette in GT5.

Toyota or a different manufacturer spends time giving the deets to PD, PD models the car, and a grand spectacle is planned.


annnnd bam, it gets leaked before said unveiling and all the magics gone. Toyota or different manufacturer gets tee'd off at PD, and that potentially damages an otherwise healthy relationship.

You could make the argument that all the cars datamined aren't anything "new", but the risk is still there.

 

[Samus]

I partially understand why developers don't like to see their planned work getting leaked publicly and i fully understand why individuals like Nenkai don't want to leak that sort of things (tightened restrictions, modding, legal lawsuit...etc).


On the other hand, however, why would Polyphony Digital be so threatened by the idea that some kid might find out that they might consider adding a 12 year old Lexus LFA in the game within the future? If anything, it probably brought more hype to the game than anything else since launch. I somewhat get that it's something that no developer or company wants to deal with but if it's something like a car or track list then no harm is done to anyone. And besides, leaks been happening left and right within the current gaming world, this is literally nothing in comparison.

Once again, i fully understand and respect why data miners don't want to leak all of this out. I just think that PDI shouldn't be too anal about small things like that and instead should focus on improving their game and communicating with fans.

Simple answer is it takes the control away from them. They can no longer control the narrative around that content.

Yes, we all know PD are very quiet but it's still their game, they should have the control about when and what information about the game is made public.

 

[05XR8]

Well, this thread wasn’t locked on site. There was actual debate about the title. Clarifying the list about what the list is and isn’t.

Everyone keeps saying throw salt over your shoulder and take grains for better digestion or whatever. If there were any real harm, I suppose we’d be posting in a different thread, where there’d be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[Nenkai]

I partially understand why developers don't like to see their planned work getting leaked publicly and i fully understand why individuals like Nenkai don't want to leak that sort of things (tightened restrictions, modding, legal lawsuit...etc).


On the other hand, however, why would Polyphony Digital be so threatened by the idea that some kid might find out that they might consider adding a 12 year old Lexus LFA in the game within the future? If anything, it probably brought more hype to the game than anything else since launch. I somewhat get that it's something that no developer or company wants to deal with but if it's something like a car or track list then no harm is done to anyone. And besides, leaks been happening left and right within the current gaming world, this is literally nothing in comparison.

Once again, i fully understand and respect why data miners don't want to leak all of this out. I just think that PDI shouldn't be too anal about small things like that and instead should focus on improving their game and communicating with fans.

Or think of it from another perspective; like when they have partnerships with certain manufacturers, including certain cars that have yet to be announced from both sides. There are some in that newer list.
Car Industry information is sensitive. I'd be doubtful that's something they want to ruin. That's why the likes of Forza is extremely tightened up in terms of any sort of car specification data set.

 

[MonoTonouS]

If you want to get staff opinion, probably worth tagging them. They can't check every thread manually all the time.

@Famine
@Jordan

Personally I've never really understood leak culture in gaming. What benefit does anyone have knowing this list? What comes, will come. Until it does, knowing what might come doesn't really change anything. Just leads to disappointment if anything when things on the list don't come.

It's like the people leaking the PS+ games before they're announced. Why? What are you gonna do with that information, knowing it a few days before? Just pointless, and spoiling the surprise.

Information is information whether it comes from an "official source" or a leaked source, people who seek to restrict access to information that is public just damage control tools of corporations. And yes, information that is leaked is legally considered public, there is a case of two men inadvertently leaking an oil drilling operation, and the court found that as long as they were not insiders and had shared that information with the public ( which they had) it was not insider trading and the corporation could go kick rocks for not hiding their stuff better. Leaks shouldn't happen if the devs did their **** right as evident by recent changes. Sometimes companies lose months of work because they were careless and the information was leaked out. Imagine you are Chevy and have a big plan to announce your new car, and you gave special access to polyphony digital to scan that car, and because polyphony is too careless to hide their coding, some kid leaks out the car and ruins your surprise and affects the market. Being a corporate shill, yeah I'd blame the leaker. Being a lawyer for GM, PD's ass is mine for doing a lousy job.

PD has no legal recourse for stopping GTP from disseminating this information, if anything they make the information semi-official and can get sued by a car company.

 

[ToyGTone]

Devil's advocate. I'd think somewhere down the line, PD might unveil a car with said car's actual unveiling to the public, akin to the C7 corvette in GT5.

Toyota or a different manufacturer spends time giving the deets to PD, PD models the car, and a grand spectacle is planned.


annnnd bam, it gets leaked before said unveiling and all the magics gone. Toyota or different manufacturer gets tee'd off at PD, and that potentially damages an otherwise healthy relationship.

You could make the argument that all the cars datamined aren't anything "new", but the risk is still there.

Or think of it from another perspective; like when they have partnerships with certain manufacturers, including certain cars that have yet to be announced from both sides. There are some in that newer list.
Car Industry information is sensitive. I'd be doubtful that's something they want to ruin. That's why the likes of Forza is extremely tightened up in terms of any sort of car specification data set.

Okay now that actually makes sense, sorry if i sounded a bit too ignorant. Admittedly, we are talking about a company that have been more focused on adding 20-70 year old cars rather than brand new ones so the whole thing escaped my mind.

Funny how you brought up Forza because i remember Playground Games being notorious for accidentally leaking out dev builds and future DLC cars (FH3, FH4 and FH5 all had their own leaks).

 

[pez2k]

On the other hand, however, why would Polyphony Digital be so threatened by the idea that some kid might find out that they might consider adding a 12 year old Lexus LFA in the game within the future?

I know this has been answered in a similar way already, but this can have big ramifications for licensing deals. If a deal is being negotiated, and the license holder sees evidence of their content already being used without their approval, it can jeopardise the agreement (this has literally happened before). Additionally, PD has a long history of leaving leftover bits and pieces from old or cancelled content, so some of the names that get mentioned may not even be planned to be licensed, opening them up to some issues if the license holder sees claims of their content being included in GT7 without permission.

The fact that there's always tons of leftovers in PD games also makes me doubt any and all leaks based on car ID strings right off the bat - not only is it possible to produce a similar 'leak' from all of the older games that's provably not content that was ever made (unless the licensed Williams F1 car, JGTC Ferrari, and the Bugatti EB110 are still coming!), but ddm has already posted earlier in this thread that there are 2000 random car IDs to pick from, of which only a very small proportion will ever be created for GT7 (even less if they're instead having to spend time redoing their security to prevent further datamining, as Nenkai has stated).

 

[SestoScudo]

Just as a hint (in response to the last message):
In a recent update to GT7, there were major changes made to the game's data system to make it harder to read/understand.
This was quite clearly done as a response to the original list which leaked, as shared in the first post of this thread.

This is essentially definitive proof that by looking for things to leak:
you are actively harming the game's current development, future preservation and modding possibilities.

What kind of bs crap is this?

As if dataminers have leaked info of nuclear weapon codes.

People treat dataminers as if they are criminals when the files are in the game itself.

Perhaps developers and publishers should just deleted the files rather than keeping them inside the game. Not to mention data constantly gets leaked through the updates they release.

Dataminers are not the criminals.

 

[Nuschel01]

Huh?:

1. M2_1001_92_A (???)

That's a special version of the Eunos Roadster:

Interesting list still, sad to see stuff like the 190E Mercs, the Sierra and NSX GT500 isn't in there anymore I'm also still missing some Gr.A cars (E30 and R32) and a V8 Supercar

 

[Nenkai]

What kind of bs crap is this?

As if dataminers have leaked info of nuclear weapon codes.

People treat dataminers as if they are criminals when the files are in the game itself.

Perhaps developers and publishers should just deleted the files rather than keeping them inside the game. Not to mention data constantly gets leaked through the updates they release.

Dataminers are not the criminals.

This is ignoring all points that have been made within at least the past two pages.

While I will agree that it is up to them to take the proper action (which again, they have), as a developer myself, sometimes it cannot be done due to time constraints. The origin of that newer list came out of code itself, not even files as you are assuming, as they've made drastic changes to how data is stored and retrieved for ease of use before all. That list happens to be one of the most visible details you can see, everything else being rather secured compared to GTS.

It's a time consuming process to consider cleaning up all little bits here and there, and the game's engine is incremental; reusable for various occasions where assets are needed without needing to recompile a new build. For instance, all assets pertaining to the official live events (steward, spectator mode) are present in the game.

Therefore, they turn their eye into securing all of this as opposed to clean up. GTS was not just protected by the console's security, but also by their own mechanisms. GT7 is already drastically different compared to GTS, but unfortunately what opened the lastest updates to be available is a console breach unrelated to PDI.

So I would welcome you to read all the critical points made throughout this thread; after all, it's a recurring person behind all of this.

 

[Nielsen]

The leaks would only be a real problem if some secret car got revealed by PD before its manufacturer got to do it. As it currently stands it’s just a little inconvenience for PD, but at the same time they probably don’t mind to get people talking without moving a finger.

 

[Nenkai]

The leaks would only be a real problem if some secret car got revealed by PD before its manufacturer got to do it. As it currently stands it’s just a little inconvenience for PD, but at the same time they probably don’t mind to get people talking without moving a finger.

Which is already the case.

 

[MIE1992]

While this list is very exciting, I'm also hoping there are plenty more cars that are potentially coming that aren't necessarily in that list, like the C5 Corvette, or other potentially returning premium models from the PS3 era, like the Mazda RX-8 Type S '07. (Not to mention all the previous SEMA winners, as well as the Tokyo Auto Salon winners from the temporary period where PD attended.)

 

[TheAdmiester]

What kind of bs crap is this?

As if dataminers have leaked info of nuclear weapon codes.

People treat dataminers as if they are criminals when the files are in the game itself.

Perhaps developers and publishers should just deleted the files rather than keeping them inside the game. Not to mention data constantly gets leaked through the updates they release.

Dataminers are not the criminals.

We've seen direct proof of PD having to spend time on tightening the game's security, time that could be spent actually working on the game. Is it that hard to understand that it's more difficult for PD to work on the improvements people desperately want when they have to waste time on a wild goose chase, cleaning up after incidents like this?

 

[Neddo]

Using Samus, GBalao888 and Whistle Snap lists, this is full list of these datamines, with new ones in bold.

Spoiler

Alfa Romeo Giula GTA '20
Aston Martin Vantage '18
Audi R8 Coupé 5.2 FSI quattro V10 Plus '16
Audi RS 6 Avant '02
Audi Sport quattro S1 Rally Car '86
Audi TTS Coupe '09
Autobacs Garaiya GT300 '08
BMW 2002 Turbo '74
BMW 2002 tii '75
BMW 507 '57
BMW M2 Competition '18
BMW M5 '05
BMW Z4 '03
Bugatti Chiron '16
Bugatti Type 37A '28
Buick GNX '87
Caterham Seven Superlight R500 '12
Chevrolet Chevelle SS 454 '70
Chevrolet Corvette Convertible (C1) '58
Chevrolet Corvette Coupe (C1) '62
DMC DeLorean S1 '84
Dodge Challenger SRT Demon '18
Ferrari 430 Scuderia '07
Ferrari 599 '06
Ferrari 812 Superfast '18
Fiat Coupe Turbo Plus '00
Ford Model B DeLuxe V-8 Roadster '32
Ford Sierra Cosworth RS500 '87
Honda CIVIC SiR-II (EG) '93
Honda NSX GT500 '00
Italdesign Exeneo Vision Gran Turismo?
Italdesign Exeneo Vision Gran Turismo Offroad?
Jaguar XJ220 '92
Lamborghini Gallardo LP 560-4 '08
Lancia DELTA HF Integrale Rally Car '92
Lancia DELTA S4 Rally Car '86
Lancia Rally 037 Evolution 2 '84
Lexus LFA '10
Lotus Elise '11
Lotus Elise '96
Lotus Esprit V8 '02
Lotus Europa Special '72
Lotus Evora Gr.3
Lotus Evora Gr.4
Maserati A6GCS Spider '54
Maserati Merak SS '80
Mazda Autozam AZ-1 '91
Mazda Eunos Roadster M2 1001 '92
Mazda Roadster 1.8 RS (NB) '98
Mazda Roadster RF VS (ND) '18
Mazda Roadster RS (NC) '07
Mazda éfini RX-7 Type R (FD) '91
McLaren MP4/4 '88
Mercedes-Benz 190 E 2.5 - 16 Evolution II '91
Mercedes-Benz 190 E 2.5 - 16 Evolution II DTM '92
Mercedes-Benz 500 E (W124) '91
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution III GSR '95
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX MR GSR '06
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VIII MR GSR '04
NISMO 400R '96
Nissan GT-R '07
Nissan GT-R Nismo GT3 '18
Nissan SILVIA K's AERO (S14) '96
Nissan SKYLINE Super Silhouette (KDR30) '84
Nissan Skyline GTS-R (R31) '87
Nissan Skyline GT-R (KPGC110) '73
Peugeot 208 T16 Pikes Peak '13
Pontiac GTO "The Judge" '69
Porsche 911 Turbo S (964) Leichtbau '93
Porsche 918 Sypder '13
Porsche Carrera GTS '64
Porsche Cayman GT4 (981) '16
Porsche Vision Gran Turismo Spyder
RE Amemiya RX7 GT300 '06
RUF CTR "Yellow Bird" '87
RUF RGT 4.2 '16
Renault AVANTIME '02
Renault Sport R5 Turbo Rallye '85
Subaru IMPREZA Sedan WRX STI '10
Subaru IMPREZA Sedan WRX STi Version VI '99
Subaru IMPREZA Sedan WRX STi spec C (Type-II) '04
Suzuki V6 ESCUDO Pikes Peak Special '98
Toyota Alphard 350G Executive Lounge '18
Toyota CELICA 1600GT (TA22) '70
Toyota CELICA GT-FOUR Rally Car (ST205) '95
Toyota GR Supra Gr.3 OVS version
Volkswagen Golf V GTI '05
Volvo V40 T5 R-Design '113

 

[tankuroded]

Using Samus, GBalao888 and Whistle Snap lists, this is full list of these datamines, with new ones in bold.

Spoiler

Alfa Romeo Giula GTA '20
Aston Martin Vantage '18
Audi R8 Coupé 5.2 FSI quattro V10 Plus '16
Audi RS 6 Avant '02
Audi Sport quattro S1 Rally Car '86
Audi TTS Coupe '09
Autobacs Garaiya GT300 '08
BMW 2002 Turbo '74
BMW 2002 tii '75
BMW 507 '57
BMW M2 Competition '18
BMW M5 '05
BMW Z4 '03
Bugatti Chiron '16
Bugatti Type 37A '28
Buick GNX '87
Caterham Seven Superlight R500 '12
Chevrolet Chevelle SS 454 '70
Chevrolet Corvette Convertible (C1) '58
Chevrolet Corvette Coupe (C1) '62
DMC DeLorean S1 '84
Dodge Challenger SRT Demon '18
Ferrari 430 Scuderia '07
Ferrari 599 '06
Ferrari 812 Superfast '18
Fiat Coupe Turbo Plus '00
Ford Model B DeLuxe V-8 Roadster '32
Ford Sierra Cosworth RS500 '87
Honda CIVIC SiR-II (EG) '93
Honda NSX GT500 '00
Italdesign Exeneo Vision Gran Turismo?
Italdesign Exeneo Vision Gran Turismo Offroad?
Jaguar XJ220 '92
Lamborghini Gallardo LP 560-4 '08
Lancia DELTA HF Integrale Rally Car '92
Lancia DELTA S4 Rally Car '86
Lancia Rally 037 Evolution 2 '84
Lexus LFA '10
Lotus Elise '11
Lotus Elise '96
Lotus Esprit V8 '02
Lotus Europa Special '72
Lotus Evora Gr.3
Lotus Evora Gr.4
Maserati A6GCS Spider '54
Maserati Merak SS '80
Mazda Autozam AZ-1 '91
Mazda Eunos Roadster M2 1001 '92
Mazda Roadster 1.8 RS (NB) '98
Mazda Roadster RF VS (ND) '18
Mazda Roadster RS (NC) '07
Mazda éfini RX-7 Type R (FD) '91
McLaren MP4/4 '88
Mercedes-Benz 190 E 2.5 - 16 Evolution II '91
Mercedes-Benz 190 E 2.5 - 16 Evolution II DTM '92
Mercedes-Benz 500 E (W124) '91
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution III GSR '95
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX MR GSR '06
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VIII MR GSR '04
NISMO 400R '96
Nissan GT-R '07
Nissan SILVIA K's AERO (S14) '96
Nissan SKYLINE Super Silhouette (KDR30) '84
Nissan Skyline GTS-R (R31) '87
Nissan Skyline GT-R (KPGC110) '73
Peugeot 208 T16 Pikes Peak '13
Pontiac GTO "The Judge" '69
Porsche 911 Turbo S (964) Leichtbau '93
Porsche 918 Sypder '13
Porsche Carrera GTS '64
Porsche Cayman GT4 (981) '16
Porsche Vision Gran Turismo Spyder
RE Amemiya RX7 GT300 '06
RUF CTR "Yellow Bird" '87
RUF RGT 4.2 '16
Renault AVANTIME '02
Renault Sport R5 Turbo Rallye '85
Subaru IMPREZA Sedan WRX STI '10
Subaru IMPREZA Sedan WRX STi Version VI '99
Subaru IMPREZA Sedan WRX STi spec C (Type-II) '04
Suzuki V6 ESCUDO Pikes Peak Special '98
Toyota Alphard 350G Executive Lounge '18
Toyota CELICA 1600GT (TA22) '70
Toyota CELICA GT-FOUR Rally Car (ST205) '95
Toyota GR Supra Gr.3 OVS version
Volkswagen Golf V GTI '05
Volvo V40 T5 R-Design '113

Spoiler: If I were you...

If I were you, I would replaced the OVS version of the GR Supra Racing Concept (since it was an event-only thing like the GT Academy cars were) with the Nissan GT-R Nismo GT3 '18 (GTR_NISMO_GT3_18).

 

[Ande3200]

I would not mind to know what cars coming even a couble of weeks before, becouse that would get me more hyped, i strongly belive that 80% of cars we get will be from the datamine

 

[Nuschel01]

Even more leaks surfacing on YouTube and Twitter, not sure if this is good for anyone in the long term...

 

[Sunzi]

Isn't it just free publicity.. which is almost one of the most desirable thinks in marketing?

I don't care for leaks, heck I don't care for about 200 of the cars we already have let alone the cars we don't yet have so I'm unaffected either way.

But I'd rather have my game trending on socials and forums, discussing anticipatory news, than have no publicity but my secret protected.

Perhaps I see it differently. This, like bonanza-gate, has silver linings from my perspective, even if they were unintentionally discovered or mined for.

 

[Nuschel01]

Isn't it just free publicity..

In theory yes, but what if for example you had a contract with track X that specifically said you're not allowed to make any of the RX layouts it has and now officials of that track see a leaked video from your game showing exactly that?

 

[Sunzi]

In theory yes, but what if for example you had a contract with track X that specifically said you're not allowed to make any of the RX layouts it has and now officials of that track see a leaked video from your game showing exactly that?

Yes - I could understand why that would be unfortunate, if PD is under some sort of contractual obligation / non-disclosure agreement...

I'd be very surprised, however, if such an obligation existed in this day/age.

 

[Dave A]

I'd be very surprised, however, if such an obligation existed in this day/age.

I wouldn't, if anything contracts and legal agreements are more specific nowadays than they were 20 years ago.

 

[Sunzi]

I wouldn't, if anything contracts and legal agreements are more specific nowadays than they were 20 years ago.

As I said, I'd be surprised if it is - datamining and leaking seems easier to do and is actually a "thing" these days. Entering into a contract like that is placing a lot of faith in the community or your product's security.

You can't trust millions of players, and, well bonanza-gate was an example of both the community and the product's security showcasing why neither can be trusted.

 

[pez2k]

But I'd rather have my game trending on socials and forums, discussing anticipatory news, than have no publicity but my secret protected.

GT7 isn't exactly lacking in name recognition or attention though, it's one of the biggest PS5 releases so far.

I'd be very surprised, however, if such an obligation existed in this day/age.

I know of at least one game from a well-known racing series that had to scrap certain cars because they were leaked before a license agreement was in place, causing the manufacturer to walk away. I don't know what PD's contracts look like, and not all manufacturers are as bothered about it, but it factually has happened before. License agreements are arcane to the point of putting requirements on the retail SKUs on the finished game or mandating inaccurate portrayals of certain aspects of cars, they're unbelievable.

 

[Sunzi]

GT7 isn't exactly lacking in name recognition or attention though, it's one of the biggest PS5 releases so far.

I know of at least one game from a well-known racing series that had to scrap certain cars because they were leaked before a license agreement was in place, causing the manufacturer to walk away. I don't know what PD's contracts look like, and not all manufacturers are as bothered about it, but it factually has happened before. License agreements are arcane to the point of putting requirements on the retail SKUs on the finished game or mandating inaccurate portrayals of certain aspects of cars, they're unbelievable.

That as it may be, you can never have enough attention, marketing, publicity, relevancy right?

Fair enough on the second part of the quote.

 

[Ryan Dungey]

More leaks 👀👀

 

[Dave A]

As I said, I'd be surprised if it is - datamining and leaking seems easier to do and is actually a "thing" these days. Entering into a contract like that is placing a lot of faith in the community or your product's security.

You can't trust millions of players, and, well bonanza-gate was an example of both the community and the product's security showcasing why neither can be trusted.

To be specific, I struggle to see how the layout being modelled would be a breach in contract, it does form the grounds of a track that is unquestionably licensed afterall. However having AI paths and such could cause issues if the layout isn't licensed. Which leands to my next point, I'm not saying the track isn't licensed, just that agreements are most certainly complex and it's very unusual for them to be open.

Agreements with car manufacturers for example are often designed to push certain models, they often exclude models and again rarely are open for a studio to just pick and choose what cars of a licensed brand they want to include.

Ultiamtely, what is released in the final game is what holds the most weight, assets and code can be made in anticipation of an agreement that never finalises.

More leaks 👀👀