FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Funny you say that because FMs Nurburgring is always brought up before GTs Laguna Seca is.

Stop being so hypocritical.

PDs sloppy track work.

PS2 track ports.

Terrible Laguna Seca model.

Terrible Monaco model.

So you did notice my Monaco coment 👍

Where exactly has it been proven?

There are various vids, that show and if you can't tell the differences as has been said to you numerous times maybe you should just stop arguing. The iRacing vs Gt vs FM vid was the best evidence (I think) put forth. The iRacing tracks are laser scanned and probably the closest thing one can get to the real life track without going to the real life track. GTs version is just an updated, ported and touched up version of what they once had before in their previous games. Not sure what they're modeling from, maybe various photos with various angles and people crunching numbers (as usual) to get the best outcome for the game. Furthermore, your bias doesn't add anything to the argument and does help progress the platform.

I'm not a huge FM fan, and though I agree it's better I do know how to call out it's faults just like I do with my favorite game series Gran Turismo. If you're willing to sit idle with the mishaps and blatant mess ups with GT5, then why are you here?

 

[Scaff]

Certainly. That is why i asked the person making a claim to present something more substantial.

So why does that self same requirement not apply to yourself?

You are making a claim based on evidence you say is in the video, so providing something more substantive to back your claim would be the next step (by your own logic).

What i've mocked is the notion that someones conclusion based on a 3rd party video is somehow more valid than mine.

No one has said its more valid, the point is being made that you are treating it as less valid than yours.

The constant demands that others "present something more substantial", why feel you don't need to re-enforces that.

It does bother me though. That is the sole reason i've entered the discussion.

Would you mind to clarify then, as to what are we discussing now?

The conversation has however moved well past that, and as such if you want to discuss the FM4 version of the 'ring then use the thread we have for that purpose.

As far as this discussion on the GT5 vs FM4 vs Real Laguna Seca goes anyone bringing the 'ring back into the debate will find they are on a two day temporary ban.

You will, if asked by a representative of the forums, cease posting any content.

Its dragging this discussion off and resulting in pointless side arguments, and it stops now. Want a FM4 'ring discussion feel free, but do it in the right place:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=226242

I attribute changes to the "bump" as having an effect on a corner profile.

So the work done to the bump has caused the change in corner profile?

The last discussion we had (on exact same topic, mind you) was over 2 months ago. That hardly qualifies as "active". I have a problem with specific issue, which i've stated before, and i quote myself: "Laguna being a beating dummy for Forza supporters everytime someone rightfully mentiones Turn 10's sloppyiness in track modelling". That is why i'm in this thread. And it would be nice to get to the bottom of this, starting with the claim by Toronado that the corner leading to the corkscrew is flat.

I said "actively searches for specific topics and those topics only" not "active", its a description of the nature of your posts, not the frequency.

I would prefer the content of my posts to be under scrutiny, and not to be profiled based on which topics i choose to contribute to.

All aspects of a members activity on the site are going to be of interest to the staff, that's just the nature of how site moderation works.

I assure you, parts don't ruin the whole for me. Be it Forza or GT5.

Yet I only see this focus regarding Forza.

Now you have mentioned a few of the areas that you feel Forza falls down on, would you care to share the areas you feel GT5 falls down on. This is after all a thread for the comparison not just of a track, but the titles as a whole.

He thinks that GT fans are "sheep following the "great leader" right off a cliff". I think he's biased. What do you think?

Now aside from the miss-quote you are making here (strawman arguments do not generally go down well here - spend some time in the Opinions sub-forum to see that), I was the one who stated that everyone has a bias, so its a bit of redundant question that seems designed just to provoke a reaction (and not from me).

As far as the real world experience goes, other people with real experience chimed in before. Let's not dismiss that opinion either.

I've not, you however seem to be selective on who's real world experience you pick.


Scaff

 

[Finduszip]

Its dragging this discussion off and resulting in pointless side arguments, and it stops now. Want a FM4 'ring discussion feel free, but do it in the right place:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=226242

So, we can discuss what's wrong with the GT5's Laguna, but not Forza Nurburgring? Do you by any chance own any Forza games, or maybe EVERY Forza game?

 

[Fat Old Sun]

So why does that self same requirement not apply to yourself?

You are making a claim based on evidence you say is in the video,

Clarification, 3rd party video.

so providing something more substantive to back your claim would be the next step (by your own logic).

Absolutely. I made a claim in my answer to you that a corner leading up to corckscrew is not flat. I have provided my "own" video to back it up. So far that (along with your screenshots analisys) is the most "substantive" evidence to the claim made in this thread.

So let's apply that logic to everyone who made claims so far. Starting with Toronado, HighSeasHoMastr, and whoever else had not bothered to do anything but state their opinions. Which are not to be presented as facts, as i'm sure you'd agree.

No one has said its more valid, the point is being made that you are treating it as less valid than yours.

Not true. I'd like to see you back it up.

The conversation has however moved well past that, and as such if you want to discuss the FM4 version of the 'ring then use the thread we have for that purpose.

Does it mean that if Laguna is brought up in this thread, it'd be offtopic too?

As far as this discussion on the GT5 vs FM4 vs Real Laguna Seca goes anyone bringing the 'ring back into the debate will find they are on a two day temporary ban.

Surprisingly, FM4's version of Laguna has escaped the wrath of nitpickers so far in this thread. Even though that you've mentioned that Turn 10's version of Rahal's straight differs from real world.

So the work done to the bump has caused the change in corner profile?

I think it's possible. Do you think otherwise?

I said "actively searches for specific topics and those topics only" not "active", its a description of the nature of your posts, not the frequency.

I explained to you why i chose this thread. The conversation we have here is essentially the same as we did in the other thread. Naturally i'd like to get to the bottom of the statements that prompted my entry to the discussion.

Now you have mentioned a few of the areas that you feel Forza falls down on, would you care to share the areas you feel GT5 falls down on. This is after all a thread for the comparison not just of a track, but the titles as a whole.

Surely, thanks for asking. I'm not crazy about the "standard" cars in GT5. Biggest let down by far.

Now aside from the miss-quote you are making here (strawman arguments do not generally go down well here - spend some time in the Opinions sub-forum to see that), I was the one who stated that everyone has a bias, so its a bit of redundant question that seems designed just to provoke a reaction (and not from me).

The quote is direct, thank you very much. And it's not a provocation, but a mere illustration as to why i think that bringing up my posting history is counterproductive to this discussion.

I've not, you however seem to be selective on who's real world experience you pick.

I have not indicated who's real world experience i'm "picking". If anything, i've pointed out that "real world experience" can go both ways.

 

[prymet1me]

So, we can discuss what's wrong with the GT5's Laguna, but not Forza Nurburgring? Do you by any chance own any Forza games, or maybe EVERY Forza game?

You interpreted his post completely wrong.

 

[Scaff]

So, we can discuss what's wrong with the GT5's Laguna, but not Forza Nurburgring? Do you by any chance own any Forza games, or maybe EVERY Forza game?

I own every Forza game and I own every GT game, and I didn't say don't talk about Forza's 'ring. I said talk about it in the dedicated thread.


Scaff

 

[tribolik]

Funny you say that because FMs Nurburgring is always brought up before GTs Laguna Seca is.

Stop being so hypocritical.

PDs sloppy track work.

PS2 track ports.

Terrible Laguna Seca model.

Terrible Monaco model.

Fair is fair... the Laguna seca in FM4 seems to be more accurate but if we cant even bring the Ring up for discution why mencion a track (Monaco) that isnt even licensed and was never entended to be the real deal... it isnt even named Monaco its Côte d'Azur...

That is as stupid as saying that the Deep Forest Raceway isnt accurate.

 

[PzR Slim]

Fair is fair... the Laguna seca in FM4 seems to be more accurate but if we cant even bring the Ring up for discution why mencion a track (Monaco) that isnt even licensed and was never entended to be the real deal... it isnt even named Monaco its Côte d'Azur...

That is as stupid as saying that the Deep Forest Raceway isnt accurate.

Then surely it's daft to complain about any tracks not being perfect as you could just say they are all approximations. We all know what the Cote d'Azur is supposed to be.

This whole debating point really has become pathetic. Both games get the modelling of some of their tracks wrong. So what? Does that mean it's suddenly not fun to drive round them? No, it just gives those who want to argue for the sake of it another reason to do so.

There are things wrong with FM's rendition of the ring and Seca, there are things wrong with GT's rendition of Seca and Monaco. Deal with it and move on.

 

[NINE_HUNDRED]

Then surely it's daft to complain about any tracks not being perfect as you could just say they are all approximations. We all know what the Cote d'Azur is supposed to be.

This whole debating point really has become pathetic. Both games get the modelling of some of their tracks wrong. So what? Does that mean it's suddenly not fun to drive round them? No, it just gives those who want to argue for the sake of it another reason to do so.

There are things wrong with FM's rendition of the ring and Seca, there are things wrong with GT's rendition of Seca and Monaco. Deal with it and move on.

Finally somebody said it.

You guys arguing over a bit of camber on a track is a bit silly..

 

[Finduszip]

I own every Forza game and I own every GT game, and I didn't say don't talk about Forza's 'ring. I said talk about it in the dedicated thread.


Scaff

So why not have a dedicated thread for GT5's Laguna? I sense a conspiracy!

 

[tribolik]

Then surely it's daft to complain about any tracks not being perfect as you could just say they are all approximations. We all know what the Cote d'Azur is supposed to be.

This whole debating point really has become pathetic. Both games get the modelling of some of their tracks wrong. So what? Does that mean it's suddenly not fun to drive round them? No, it just gives those who want to argue for the sake of it another reason to do so.

There are things wrong with FM's rendition of the ring and Seca, there are things wrong with GT's rendition of Seca and Monaco. Deal with it and move on.

You are right and thats what is important the fun factor... and it seems that FM4 is the game that has more fun factor and therefor the better game...

But of all the tracks both games have the one that looses more fun factor because of its inaccuracy is the Ring in FM4 and it is a big shame if Forza fans dont step up and demand T10 a better model... it would improove the game consideratly and win T10 alot more customers because many people just play GT5 to hotlap the Ring

 

[Scaff]

So why not have a dedicated thread for GT5's Laguna? I sense a conspiracy!

Have I said one could not be created?

Have I stopped anyone creating one?

No conspiracy at all, we simply already had a large thread on FM's 'ring and rather than discuss it in two places I have asked that the dedicated thread be use.

The 'ring tends to get its own threads in sub-forums because its a massively popular and iconic track.

You are right and thats what is important the fun factor... and it seems that FM4 is the game that has more fun factor and therefor the better game...

But of all the tracks both games have the one that looses more fun factor because of its inaccuracy is the Ring in FM4 and it is a big shame if Forza fans dont step up and demand T10 a better model... it would improove the game consideratly and win T10 alot more customers because many people just play GT5 to hotlap the Ring

To be fair the vast majority of Forza player do openly acknowledge the issues with the 'ring and want a better version. I personal hope the 'ring gets a from scratch rebuild for teh next Forza.

However all of this is a topic for another thread................................I may have mentioned that before

Scaff

 

[Finduszip]

You are right and thats what is important the fun factor... and it seems that FM4 is the game that has more fun factor and therefor the better game...

But of all the tracks both games have the one that looses more fun factor because of its inaccuracy is the Ring in FM4 and it is a big shame if Forza fans dont step up and demand T10 a better model... it would improove the game consideratly and win T10 alot more customers because many people just play GT5 to hotlap the Ring

No, really? If everyone is just lapping the 'Ring, why is there a 200,000+ GT5 community on here discussing everything from tuning to trading to course making to arranged events and even more, and barely 1,000 users on Forza's community (which basically consists of this thread), where all those Forza... (you know what I mean, but if I said it Scaff would be after me) lives.

 

[Tornado]

No, really? If everyone is just lapping the 'Ring, why is there a 200,000+ GT5 community on here discussing everything from tuning to trading to course making to arranged events and even more, and barely 1,000 users on Forza's community (which basically consists of this thread), where all those Forza... (you know what I mean, but if I said it Scaff would be after me) lives.

...




What?

 

[Finduszip]

...




What?

Why are you whating, pony?

 

[Terronium-12]

I'll have to echo that remark: "What?"

What are you attempting to say?

EDIT: Since when did "many people" become "everyone"?

 

[Finduszip]

I'll have to echo that remark: "What?"

What are you attempting to say?

I dont know.

 

[Scaff]

I dont know.

You are aware that an entire sister site to GT Planet exists called Forza Planet?

As a result the bulk of Forza related activity is on it, having moved from here.

Scaff

 

[Finduszip]

You are aware that an entire sister site to GT Planet exists called Forza Planet?

As a result the bulk of Forza related activity is on it, having moved from here.

Scaff

Yes, I am aware of that.

 

[Scaff]

Yes, I am aware of that.

Then I to have no idea what you were saying either.

If its that GR Planet is more active than Forza Planet, then that's no real surprise, FP hasn't even been official launched yet and FTP has been around for over a decade.

Scaff

 

[Finduszip]

Then I to have no idea what you were saying either.

If its that GR Planet is more active than Forza Planet, then that's no real surprise, FP hasn't even been official launched yet and FTP has been around for over a decade.

Scaff

Ok, what is FTP?

 

[Scaff]

Ok, what is FTP?

My phone being stupid, that should be GTP, as in GT Planet.

Scaff

 

[Finduszip]

My phone being stupid, that should be GTP, as in GT Planet.

Scaff

Then it makes sense.

 

[GT6mebe]

What I do not get is that why this thread is not in the GT5 section.....like before maybe because GT is too popular.

Also just wanted to say this but the new test track in GT5 is apparently over 30km long with 12km straight.

 

[Finduszip]

What I do not get is that why this thread is not in the GT5 section.....like before maybe because GT is too popular.

Also just wanted to say this but the new test track in GT5 is apparently over 30km long with 12km straight.

Oh my cat! Where can I get it?

 

[Akira AC]

What I do not get is that why this thread is not in the GT5 section.....like before maybe because GT is too popular.

I used to wonder the same thing, but then I actually saw the reasoning applied over there and is not particularly "logical". I rather dismiss an opinion that says "Forza king of Racers" rather than seeing a whole bunch of people who says that "GT's has soul and KY is god" and consider such thing valid into a tangible discussion.

At least FM people tent to bring actual points that can be measured and comparable(well sometimes).

 

[C_Raccoon23]

What I do not get is that why this thread is not in the GT5 section.....like before maybe because GT is too popular.

I think this thread would be harder to control if it were in the GT5 section.

 

[Terronium-12]

What I do not get is that why this thread is not in the GT5 section.....like before maybe because GT is too popular.

Also just wanted to say this but the new test track in GT5 is apparently over 30km long with 12km straight.

Maybe because damn near every thread in the immediate GT5 forum has a way of becoming an impromptu "FM vs. GT" thread, whether it be non-intentional, inflammatory (intentional), or otherwise?

Although to be honest... I think it should be moved. It'd be far more easier to weed out the morons that way.

 

[tribolik]

Well from this image it seems that the corkscrew in FM4 isnt as accurate as the one in GT5 and in fact it is a bit exagerated...

 

[Scaff]

Well from this image it seems that the corkscrew in FM4 isnt as accurate as the one in GT5 and in fact it is a bit exagerated...

Apart from the car in the FM3 screen grab clearly being both further along the track and further to the left, both of which will change the perspective.

When I grabbed my shot for comparisons I made sure to correct for both of these factors as much as possible, buy taking screen grabs from differencing times to ensure the car distance from the corner was as close as possible and also layering them to put the perspective as near as possible (that however is trickier to correct for).

Correct for the distance at least and then we can have a look, if the issue remains then you have a point.

Opps - my bad missed the bottom screen grab (!!!!!!!!!!!!!), yep that's an issue indeed. Which gives problems with both GT5 and FM4's versions.

What I do not get is that why this thread is not in the GT5 section.....like before maybe because GT is too popular.

The reason is actually quite simple.

The staff got fed up with members such as yourself turning just about every thread in the Forza sub-forum into a 'vs GT' discussion. This thread was created to keep them all in one place so the remaining threads (pre Forza Planet) were at least able to breath.

Also just wanted to say this but the new test track in GT5 is apparently over 30km long with 12km straight.

And what in the name of all that is holy does that have to do with anything?

Keep your posts on topic.


Scaff