FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[Vaxxtx]

I made a video (not bias) on a comparison on GT and Forza. Before i was a gt fan i was a heave forza 2 fan, not gonna lie.. But this video explains why i switched to GT5. If i said anything you think is bias, please tell me and i will re upload an improved version. I basically went over personal experiences and opinions and observations of both games.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8fC...xt=C36334a7UDOEgsToPDskJVGUoZH6HcvlU6RnfJshvC

I have a hard time understanding what you are talking about. I will admit I skipped through it as it seemed all over the place.

You talk about how awesome the stiching is in GT5 on cockpits, and how FM4 is "ok". You also said how grphically GT5 is better. You failed to mention the standards that make up most of GT5, and blacked out cockpit that again...make up most of the game.

You also mentioned physics, and how GT5 is the best on a console, yet forgot to mention how lame the clutch, tire model, and damage is.

To be honest it seems like you are just saying your unbiased, yet you look past all the flaws in GT5. It doesnt seem unbiased to me as you gloss over the sore thumbs of GT5.

 

[FuzzyFassbender]

I made a video (not bias) on a comparison on GT and Forza. Before i was a gt fan i was a heave forza 2 fan, not gonna lie.. But this video explains why i switched to GT5. If i said anything you think is bias, please tell me and i will re upload an improved version. I basically went over personal experiences and opinions and observations of both games.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8fC...xt=C36334a7UDOEgsToPDskJVGUoZH6HcvlU6RnfJshvC

Fair enough... you prefer GT5 and I am not here to say you shouldn't - it is a good game. A couple of things though, on one hand you are making a huge point of the interior superiority of GT but then follow by saying the standards interiors are fine because it doesn't matter much to you. The other is commenting on better physics in GT but fail to offer what you use for control in Forza.

The level of detail in GT is great, in places! And, GT is "starting" to release some interesting content (SPA, test track, etc.) but the some of the parts is not on par with Forza 4. The sounds, leader boards, interface, game elements consistency, handling physics, livery editor, crash physics/visuals/sound, and leader boards just makes Forza more "fun" - the whole object of my purchase.

I am sure many will prefer for some particular feature of GT, or because they only own a PS3, or don't have a good wheel/pedal for Forza. I hope to get some return on my investment of my PS3 and GT if PD continues to improve their game. Forza just passed GT up in too many areas for now - IMO.

 

[Megacack]

Any chance you could write up a summary, because video is a bit of a generous description.

11 minutes monologue with swearing and the occasional screen shot would be more apt, and to be honest I lost the will to follow it after about a minute.


Scaff

yea i got sidetracked in the beginning :/

 

[Megacack]

Fair enough... you prefer GT5 and I am not here to say you shouldn't - it is a good game. A couple of things though, on one hand you are making a huge point of the interior superiority of GT but then follow by saying the standards interiors are fine because it doesn't matter much to you. The other is commenting on better physics in GT but fail to offer what you use for control in Forza.

The level of detail in GT is great, in places! And, GT is "starting" to release some interesting content (SPA, test track, etc.) but the some of the parts is not on par with Forza 4. The sounds, leader boards, interface, game elements consistency, handling physics, livery editor, crash physics/visuals/sound, and leader boards just makes Forza more "fun" - the whole object of my purchase.

I am sure many will prefer for some particular feature of GT, or because they only own a PS3, or don't have a good wheel/pedal for Forza. I hope to get some return on my investment of my PS3 and GT if PD continues to improve their game. Forza just passed GT up in too many areas for now - IMO.

I understand your point, i will agree that Forza has better damage, sounds, and leaderboard/ladder, but i still like gt5. I wouldn't mind getting Forza 4 but im having fun with GT5. I made a point of me not minding the standard cockpits because they are good enough for me, i also said i was kinda disappointed about he standard cars, but they are ok. I said the physics in gt5 are better because i've seen comparisons, like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZVET2ftri8, that show a small superiority on gt5's physics.

 

[Vaxxtx]

I understand your point, i will agree that Forza has better damage, sounds, and leaderboard/ladder, but i still like gt5. I wouldn't mind getting Forza 4 but im having fun with GT5. I made a point of me not minding the standard cockpits because they are good enough for me, i also said i was kinda disappointed about he standard cars, but they are ok. I said the physics in gt5 are better because i've seen comparisons, like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZVET2ftri8, that show a small superiority on gt5's physics.

So the cockpits in FM4 are just ok, yet so are the blacked out ones in GT5? Hmmm.

So yet another person who doesnt own FM4, and just watches videos from a guy I cant understand talk about how real GT5 looks compared to the TG show.

I was trying to take you serious, but I can see you have no idea what you talking about...

 

[Megacack]

So the cockpits in FM4 are just ok, yet so are the blacked out ones in GT5? Hmmm.

So yet another person who doesnt own FM4, and just watches videos from a guy I cant understand talk about how real GT5 looks compared to the TG show.

I was trying to take you serious, but I can see you have no idea what you talking about...

The guy drove an audi in real life, i think that's a valid comparison on physics. It's not hard to understand him, and if you kept up on gt5 they are upgrading standard cars to premium, like the skyline r32 and r33. I don't hate forza's cockpits, they are good, but GT5 is making standard cars premium and they already have converted 30+ cars from standard to premium.

Just because I don't own forza does not mean i can't make an opinion, my neighbor has Forza 4 and i play it all the time, that's almost like owning it. He also tell me that he prefers gt5 because of the fact you can race at night and with rain etc.. If you are a true sim fan, driving in rain and at night would be big factors because they would want to know if they can take those challenges.

 

[Terronium-12]

There's been a Premium R32 and R33 since November of '10.

Where are you getting this "converted 30+ cars from standard to premium" bit from?

 

[Patrick]

There's been a Premium R32 and R33 since November of '10.

Where are you getting this "converted 30+ cars from standard to premium" bit from?

That's what I'm wondering.

 

[Scaff]

The guy drove an audi in real life,

I've driven at least a dozen of the cars that both games share in real life as well, so I'm glad you feel that carries weight.

Now a few pages back I did a physics test in FM4, I've carried it out in GT5 so I know what the issues are and how they relate to vehicle dynamics (a subject I have taught), but for some reason no one who champions GT5's physics over FM4's seems to want to try and replicate it.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=6474051#post6474051

Maybe you would.

i think that's a valid comparison on physics. It's not hard to understand him,

Its not hard to understand him, but I disagree that its either a valid or objective comparison of the physics.

The comprison video showed all three cars on differeing parts of the track, so how are we to compare how load transfer is being handled, tyre deformation, etc on the same corner? We can't.

In regard to the COG comment, he gets all of that from the single observation that he 'feels' that FM4 has them taking to long to brake. In comparison to what? Did we see any video footage of the three cars side by side braking into the same corner?

A very large amount of that is a long way from a valid comparison, and that's without taking into account the appalling driving he was displaying. He's banging on about how close GT5 is while cutting a corner and taking out a load of cones.

and if you kept up on gt5 they are upgrading standard cars to premium,

And it would seem charging us for them.

like the skyline r32 and r33. I don't hate forza's cockpits, they are good,

They have always been premium

but GT5 is making standard cars premium and they already have converted 30+ cars from standard to premium.

30+. I do hope you can list them.


You would do well to be aware that most of us here do own GT5 (and most of the GT series) and still play it before making comments such as this, you should also remind yourself of what the AUP has to say in regard to making misleading claims.

Just because I don't own forza does not mean i can't make an opinion, my neighbor has Forza 4 and i play it all the time, that's almost like owning it. He also tell me that he prefers gt5 because of the fact you can race at night and with rain etc.. If you are a true sim fan, driving in rain and at night would be big factors because they would want to know if they can take those challenges.

You are free to have an opinion, its stating fact that gets a lot trickier. In particular when it seems you struggle to get facts right about GT5, let alone FM4.

In regard to rain and night, yes they are good to see in GT5, unfortunately the performance hit that you get as a result is sometimes not worth it. As a sim fan I would much rather have a solid 60fps and no rain/night, than have rain at night and sub 30fps at times. A stuttering grid of cars on screen is more than enough to ruin the immersion of any sim and quite frankly it wouldn't matter how good the physics are, it become totally irrelevant at that point.

For me having that solid foundation is critical, as without it anything you add on afterwards risks being ruined by performance issues.



Scaff

 

[GT6mebe]

If you are a true sim fan, driving in rain and at night would be big factors because they would want to know if they can take those challenges.

THIS X 10000000000.
The people on here make you think that features like night and day cycles and weather systems or rally are far less important than some extra fps when to a normal racing fan it would be an obvious choice.

Anyway I also think that the cockpit's in Forza are horrible....most of them are black ( even though some manufacturers allow you to change cockpit colours), they all lack windows and whats more important is that they all lack texture giving the plastic look that has haunted the Forza franchise.

By the way dont know where you got that PD had converted 30 plus standards to premium though. Information failure I guess

 

[Daverytimes]

^^^ Scaff am eager to see the comparison for GT5/FM3/FM4/Iracing Corkscrew. How is that coming along?

EDIT: Dam you GT6mebe

 

[Tornado]

THIS X 10000000000.
The people on here make you think that features like night and day cycles and weather systems or rally are far less important than some extra fps when to a normal racing fan it would be an obvious choice.

The Scotsman. They aren't true, and they are everywhere.

Anyway I also think that the cockpit's in Forza are horrible....most of them are black ( even though some manufacturers allow you to change cockpit colours), they all lack windows and whats more important is that they all lack texture giving the plastic look that has haunted the Forza franchise.

How's that physics comparison coming along?

 

[Scaff]

^^^ Scaff am eager to see the comparison for GT5/FM3/FM4/Iracing Corkscrew. How is that coming along?

EDIT: Dam you GT6mebe

I've had a busy weekend with the family so its going to be a few days. I am going to stick to GT5 and FM4 (mainly because I don't have iracing and FM3 feels about as reinvent as sticking GT4 in the mix).

Scaff

 

[Patrick]

Anyway I also think that the cockpit's in Forza are horrible....most of them are black ( even though some manufacturers allow you to change cockpit colours), they all lack windows and whats more important is that they all lack texture giving the plastic look that has haunted the Forza franchise.

Better than majority of GT5's interiors

 

[Terronium-12]

THIS X 10000000000.
The people on here make you think that features like night and day cycles and weather systems or rally are far less important than some extra fps when to a normal racing fan it would be an obvious choice.

Or maybe, just maybe it has something to do with how the features are (under)utilized in the game? Do you think, maybe, that's the problem those of have with the feature? And, if you're seriously trying to pass off more features in exchange for a solid framerate in a racing game... you really need to stop.

Anyway I also think that the cockpit's in Forza are horrible....most of them are black ( even though some manufacturers allow you to change cockpit colours)..

Manufacturers also have all black leather interiors as well. Your point being what, exactly?

 

[Scaff]

THIS X 10000000000.
The people on here make you think that features like night and day cycles and weather systems or rally are far less important than some extra fps when to a normal racing fan it would be an obvious choice.

So I'm not normal then?

I've already outlined my reasons above, and quite frankly no, I'm not willing to trade performance overall for rain/night. Not when the drop can be a lot more than a few fps, sub 30 (which is what GT5 can hit and half that with 3D) is simply not enough.

Anyway I also think that the cockpit's in Forza are horrible....most of them are black ( even though some manufacturers allow you to change cockpit colours), they all lack windows and whats more important is that they all lack texture giving the plastic look that has haunted the Forza franchise.

Most of FM4's cockpits are black.

Would you mind posting a picture of what the interior of the vast majority of GT5's cockpits look like and letting me know what the colour is.

Thanks

By the way dont know where you got that PD had converted 30 plus standards to premium though. Information failure I guess

In quite a big way, particularly when mentioning two cars that have always been premium as examples.


Oh and you still owe me a reply to that post and Cobra video.

Scaff

 

[phillgt2002]

So I'm not normal then?





Most of FM4's cockpits are black.

Would you mind posting a picture of what the interior of the vast majority of GT5's cockpits look like and letting me know what the colour is.

Thanks








Scaff

LOL

 

[ralph89]

I guess the critics are all in for Forza 4 car model while crapping on GT5's standard cars.

This forum is quite fun to read.

Keep on typing internet warriors!

 

[PzR Slim]

I guess the critics are all in for Forza 4 car model while crapping on GT5's standard cars.

This forum is quite fun to read.

Keep on typing internet warriors!

You know you are the worst kind of internet warrior, the ones that have absolutely nothing to say but say it anyway.

 

[prymet1me]

I will honestly say the worse part of GTPlanet is the GT hardcore that bash Forza and dont own it, but play it at a "friends house" or "I have seen videos of it". They are the worse and a poor representation and hopefully the minority of this website.

 

[PzR Slim]

I will honestly say the worse part of GTPlanet is the GT hardcore that bash Forza and dont own it, but play it at a "friends house" or "I have seen videos of it". They are the worse and a poor representation and hopefully the minority of this website.

I agree, plenty of the opposite type over at the official FM forums as well. One thing you can pretty much guarantee about anyone posting in the FM section here and over at FM Planet is that they will be/have been huge GT fans and will have played a lot of GT5. It's the only way to be able to form any real conclusion. Play both games extensively, I would say that means at least three months of solid play, and then form an opinion of which you feel is better.

 

[Vaxxtx]

I will honestly say the worse part of GTPlanet is the GT hardcore that bash Forza and dont own it, but play it at a "friends house" or "I have seen videos of it". They are the worse and a poor representation and hopefully the minority of this website.

I agree, plenty of the opposite type over at the official FM forums as well. One thing you can pretty much guarantee about anyone posting in the FM section here and over at FM Planet is that they will be/have been huge GT fans and will have played a lot of GT5. It's the only way to be able to form any real conclusion. Play both games extensively, I would say that means at least three months of solid play, and then form an opinion of which you feel is better.

I agree as well.

There is a difference between opinion, and an informed opinion. It seems most (not all) GT fans form an opinion based on jealousy, and riding the sour grapes train. If GT5 doesnt have it...well than it isnt important (i.e. tire models, damage, cockpits, etc. etc.). Yet these people have "played at a friends" or "neighbors house" excuse. They are not motorsport fans, but PD fans. No point in trying to discuss any other games with them.

I do believe there are some people that have played both and still prefer GT5 for some reasons, but that is such a minority.

 

[Finduszip]

I do believe there are some people that have played both and still prefer GT5 for some reasons, but that is such a minority.

Are anything of that fact? I have eight friends which have both, and six of them said GT5 was better.

 

[Brend]

I agree as well.

There is a difference between opinion, and an informed opinion. It seems most (not all) GT fans form an opinion based on jealousy, and riding the sour grapes train. If GT5 doesnt have it...well than it isnt important (i.e. tire models, damage, cockpits, etc. etc.). Yet these people have "played at a friends" or "neighbors house" excuse. They are not motorsport fans, but PD fans. No point in trying to discuss any other games with them.

I do believe there are some people that have played both and still prefer GT5 for some reasons, but that is such a minority.

You were so close to keeping your Forza-tendancies to yourself...then you came out with that line at the end.

 

[Scaff]

You were so close to keeping your fanboy to yourself...then you came out with that line at the end.

First post of this thread, read it please.


Scaff

 

[cuco33]

Which one is better is always going to have some type of bias for some reason, whether it be justification for spending more to play (usually because most who speak out only own 1 platform/1 game or 'play it at a friend's house') or because you grew up playing 1 franchise a lot more over the other. Many times it's not about which one is actually better but which one is perceived to be better for whatever reason.

With that said, and this is my opinion of course, I play both franchises with a pad and with a wheel still to this day and I think Forza 4 > GT5. I still think that GT5, under the right conditions looks the best of ANY racer, has many more things to do, plays very well with great physics but FM4 still trumps it. Consistency is something GT5 does not have and there are issues throughout the game. I guess I'm disappointed because I really thought that GT5 was going to be the absolute best of the best and it fell very short on that. This isn't fanatical speak either, as this is based on me being a long time fan of both franchises (and other racing games really) and being honest with myself on which title does things right/better. Got into GT since GT1 on PS1 and FM since FM1 on the fat xbox (granted I got a LOT more into Forza with FM2 on X360). There's just a lot of wrong with GT5 for me to think it's the mecca of racers like is preached on here on the norm (and I don't think Forza is the shiz either like is preached on FM.net, albeit to a smaller degree than GT is here). I'm a fan and will criticize what needs to be criticized, not defend the issues so to speak. Some folks just need to accept opinion and see within themselves if they are defending for the sake of defending (and attacking for the sake of attacking) a particular platform/game franchise. I'm so glad we have Forza today because it kicks PD into high gear to deliver an even better product, and vice versa. I strongly believe if it weren't for the Forza franchise we wouldn't see online, damage, extra features being thrown in or patched in, etc.

I can go back and forth with pros and cons of both franchises but it'd be a very very long list and I don't have that much time to get into it at the moment. I still power on my X360 and PS3 almost daily, and do something in both latest games. Anything from just buying a car or modding it to actually doing some racing/events or just going on a practice run on some track.

 

[Brend]

First post of this thread, read it please.


Scaff

Sorry!

 

[GT6mebe]

So I'm not normal then?

I've already outlined my reasons above, and quite frankly no, I'm not willing to trade performance overall for rain/night. Not when the drop can be a lot more than a few fps, sub 30 (which is what GT5 can hit and half that with 3D) is simply not enough.

What it can hit....CAN. On average it is a solid 60fps and 45-50 fps when night or rainy. Also glad you mention 3D which hugely taxes the graphics engine.

Most of FM4's cockpits are black.

Would you mind posting a picture of what the interior of the vast majority of GT5's cockpits look like and letting me know what the colour is.

Guess I did not word it properly. I mean it should offer different interior colours that most sport cars have. Gt5 does this partially with PREMIUM cars.
Also the cockpits are still textured really badly.

In quite a big way, particularly when mentioning two cars that have always been premium as examples.

I know right how could he possibly mix that up.

Oh and you still owe me a reply to that post and Cobra video.

Ah thanks for reminding me. I tested it a long while ago like you said, and though I have no proof the car did not spin out like in Forza. However the car is far more twitchy in GT5.

Also I want to ask you something. If the cause is due to the different and sometimes random loss of grip in the rear tyres than can you justify to me that the cobra in FM4 can spin the other way. Please show cockpit view also. Thanks in advance just curious.

I do believe there are some people that have played both and still prefer GT5 for some reasons, but that is such a minority.

Wow. I think that has pretty much summed your biased tendencies towards Forza. Seen it in Gt forums too.

Also many people think that by playing both games that how somehow invalidates their bias. Yes it gives you a more informed opinion but at the end of the day it is still an opinion that is affected by bias.

 

[GT6mebe]

Double post

 

[UKMikey]

If bias is relative, I'd rather listen to the opinion of someone who has played both games extensively and can see the faults of both.