FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[JDMKING13]

This.

The steering assist is still there with a wheel (unfortunately) but is nothing like the one you get when playing with a pad. In Forza 3, you need to be much more careful with a wheel than with a pad (braking for example is way less stable). And the cars can also get very tail happy when re-accelerating.

Edit : The guy posting right above me has obviously never played Forza 3. With a wheel I can hardly drive R class cars without TCS. Actually, the way the race cars lose grip very violently seems very realistic.

The guy above is spot on, the race cars in fm3 handle very well. Its the production cars that have to much grip imo.

 

[Spagetti69]

Have you too much grip guys driven the shelby cobra stock?

Plenty of oversteer in that.

 

[JJ72]

I don't think anyone nailed it perfectly tbh.

The super cars do have a lot of traction in FM3, it could be down to the differential and suspension being too perfect, and maybe a bit too much longtitutional grip. I can't prove anything but comparing with real life experience it seem a bit on the easy side.

For the race car though I think it is way too snappy, slick tires tends to be like that but IRL my impression of it is they still have some elasticity in how they perform in semi slides, when you drive an R1 car in Forza it's either full grip or full slide, and that is way too pitchy.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Have you too much grip guys driven the shelby cobra stock?

Plenty of oversteer in that.

It doesn't look that hard to drive going by the video below, I might try it later but I think I will find it is very grippy.

 

[Spagetti69]

It doesn't look that hard to drive going by the video below, I might try it later but I think I will find it is very grippy.

Yes it does, I have to agree there.


Im not sure how to add videos but just for fun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJZNcE3Lnmw

 

[HBK]

The guy above is spot on, the race cars in fm3 handle very well. Its the production cars that have to much grip imo.

Just so you know, race cars do handle very well in real life. That's the whole point of being a race car actually.

But maybe I misunderstood your post.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Yes it does, I have to agree there.


Im not sure how to add videos but just for fun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJZNcE3Lnmw

I'm surprised you don't know how to add YouTube videos considering your total post count. Just click on YouTube logo when posting and put the video ID in the wrapper: hJZNcE3Lnmw



I would be worried if the game stops you drifting completely, I even got some drift achievement in the race when the AI took the rear of my car out. I remember seeing that video some time ago, I guess it was T10 trying to break into the Japan market but it didn't really improve things much over there, maybe because there is not many 360 owners over there.

 

[HBK]

I have played Forza 3 and very recently. I noticed the R class cars without TCS are the only ones that can overcome the peak levels of grip in Forza. You just have to take the throttle input a bit back and it is very controllable. It loses grip violently only when going on the curbs or over bumps. However super cars in the games are very hard to overcome the levels of grip in the game as you seem to need a lot more BHP to do so which is why the R class cars you have a chance of losing the rear more often when applying throttle.

Well, obviously you did not purchase the same Forza 3 as me.

In the game, most cars with stock tires can be very tail happy, yes (even the FWD ones).

I'm not saying it's completely realistic, but as I just said, obviously there were two versions of the game which were shipped to different persons

 

[Bogie 19th]

why I say the FM cars are way to grippy. It's still a good game though. I love GT but I'm not fanboy FM is looking very good and I'm hoping with the new tire physics the grip levels well seem realistic.

I wish my cars had more grip on them in FM3. Definitely not too grippy here. In fact, many of us have complained about how loose the cars can be, but we have tuned and compensated.

Well, obviously you did not purchase the same Forza 3 as me.

In the game, most cars with stock tires can be very tail happy, yes (even the FWD ones).

Indeed. I do wonder if there truly are different copies out there.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Well, obviously you did not purchase the same Forza 3 as me.

In the game, most cars with stock tires can be very tail happy, yes (even the FWD ones).

I'm not saying it's completely realistic, but as I just said, obviously there were two versions of the game which were shipped to different persons

You are probably right that I did not purchase the same one as you, I purchased the Forza Motorsport 3 Limited Collector’s Edition version. Maybe it goes down to people having different skill levels which is why for others it is easy and some it is harder.

 

[HBK]

I should have known it would go down this path ...

 

[t.o.]

It is the same with GT5. People say it is driving like on ice and others say it is too grippy. There is two sides for pretty much any game and I think it depends on driving level. If T10 did the grip levels right, for FM3 then they will be doing it wrong with FM4 as it looks very different. I don't expect cars like Ferrari F40, Porsche 911 Turbo 3.3 with no assists to be able to stamp on the throttle and get next to no wheel spin. It just keeps on giving in terms of grip. This game is probably the most grippy game I've played and I've played a good range of racing simulation games. In most games it is good to go about half throttle, in Forza it is good to go straight to 90% or more out of corners.

That's the same argument I have for GT5P to GT5 yet I can't seem to find one GT fan to agree to that. Those two games feel different and supposedly physics were done over "from the ground up" yet both games were supposedly "spot on dead realistic". How can two different models of the same game be realistic? One of them has to be wrong, right?

So I don't expect the FM3 fans who play FM4 to "concede" any more than the GT5P fans who play GT5. And , really , I wouldn't require them to.

 

[HBK]

That's the same argument I have for GT5P to GT5 yet I can't seem to find one GT fan to agree to that. Those two games feel different and supposedly physics were done over "from the ground up" yet both games were supposedly "spot on dead realistic".

GT5P physics were just wrong. GT5 physics are much better in that regard.

And we don't know yet how much different will FM4 physics be compared to FM3. All we have now is second hand information.

 

[t.o.]

it is very different on a pad or a wheel.

Very easy to slide with a wheel, but much more understeery with a pad.

This is what people need to understand, the game with the wheel is a lot different, the pad creates understeer because the steering assist tries to keep the steering lock within the area of grip (something to do with the slip angle of the tyres) and this creates illusion of too much grip. This happens in every game that supports a pad even GT, but T10 's telemetry proves its there and people have gone crazy, other games dont show it but they have it, otherwise its like playing rFactor with a controller (you can put full lock at any speed).

With the Wheel this assist is kind of still there but too much less extent and its easy to put too much lock on and get the tires to slip and lose traction.

Playing with TCS and STM off, its pretty easy to get cars to oveersteer if they are RWD even with the pad.

Guys we can keep saying this till we're blue in the face but it's like people don't listen. Forza 3 with the wheel is just a different beast to using the controller. When I hear people talk about stock S class cars and having a bunch of grip I just laugh. Anyone and everyone knows those S cars are murder with the wheel. I personally don't find them very fun because they lose it at the drop of a hat. Spinning all over the place. You hug a turn right in a S class car and if a butterfly blows by your rear quarterpanel that's enough breeze to send you spinning in a S class car.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

That's the same argument I have for GT5P to GT5 yet I can't seem to find one GT fan to agree to that. Those two games feel different and supposedly physics were done over "from the ground up" yet both games were supposedly "spot on dead realistic". How can two different models of the same game be realistic? One of them has to be wrong, right?

So I don't expect the FM3 fans who play FM4 to "concede" any more than the GT5P fans who play GT5. And , really , I wouldn't require them to.

Try and find people who said each off them is dead on realistic. GT5 still has a lot of room for improvement but the car handling characteristics are very similar to real life ones. It can only get better.

People do say that GT5 and GT5P is quite different. Is that conceding? I like the way the way you say "you wouldn't require them to." like you are not a fan of either games.

Guys we can keep saying this till we're blue in the face but it's like people don't listen. Forza 3 with the wheel is just a different beast to using the controller. When I hear people talk about stock S class cars and having a bunch of grip I just laugh. Anyone and everyone knows those S cars are murder with the wheel. I personally don't find them very fun because they lose it at the drop of a hat. Spinning all over the place. You hug a turn right in a S class car and if a butterfly blows by your rear quarterpanel that's enough breeze to send you spinning in a S class car.

I think it all goes down to driving skill again. The steering wheel allows free movement so you might turn in too much and too quickly. The controller is more smooth in steering input. Also does the controller have traction control permanently enabled then and only with wheels it is not. If you get rid of steering input but just go accelerating, the game has too much grip. What you are admitting to is the more realistic game physics engine is not accessible to the controller most users use. In GT5, the cars handle the same way, same with rFactor and other games but in FM they restrict the majority of gamers experiencing the physics engine. I doubt that is the case and it is people driving less smoothly with a wheel that are having problems losing cars and spinning them.

 

[t.o.]

Try and find people who said each off them is dead on realistic. GT5 still has a lot of room for improvement but the car handling characteristics are very similar to real life ones. It can only get better.

People do say that GT5 and GT5P is quite different. Is that conceding? I like the way the way you say "you wouldn't require them to." like you are not a fan of either games.

I'm not LOYAL to either game. As it stands right now I'm a fan of Forza. There's a difference.

I'm a fan and I'm loyal to the New York Giants, Yankees and Knicks.

There were/are people who were claiming that each were dead on realistic. One needs only search the GT forums here for that.

 

[Clerigo]

All this helps by default in Forza that causes an artificial driving are perfectly normal, because of the nature of the game.
The same hapens in tracks accuracy (but I hope this time Forza 4 don’t fail again).

For example, Nurburgring Nordschleife is not accurate in any Forza game because, among other flaws, the track is always wider than it actually is, and unfortunately you can see that problem in all tracks.
If you compare videos with real life you will realise that.

That’s just another feature where GT5 is stronger, because unlike Forza, GT5 is almost perfect in tracks accuracy.
Take a look at Nordschleife GT5 vs Real with the same car:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9s_G…=11&playnext=2


Conclusion:
Forza and GT5 have diferent natures that makes them have different purposes.
While Forza is a more user friendly driving game which gives great importance to costumization, GT5 is more focused in driving itself (with more realistic physics), that aims to be a more pure and accurate Driving Simulator.

 

[Spagetti69]

Not the physics debate again.

I am pretty impressed with GTs physics until a collision or whilst airbourne.

Both titles have pros and cons in this area.
It's not all GT all the way.

 

[t.o.]

I think one thing we probably need to do is have a good old fashioned SHOWDOWN!!!
Something along the lines of having some hosted races on both games where all things are equal between the competitors (same cars, same control methods (no pad users versus wheel users) and have a race and see where it goes.

 

[Evian]

I like the new suspensions physics 👍

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Not the physics debate again.

I am pretty impressed with GTs physics until a collision or whilst airbourne.

Both titles have pros and cons in this area.
It's not all GT all the way.

It is not FM all the way either.

I think one thing we probably need to do is have a good old fashioned SHOWDOWN!!!
Something along the lines of having some hosted races on both games where all things are equal between the competitors (same cars, same control methods (no pad users versus wheel users) and have a race and see where it goes.

Yes a showdown would be good. The easiest way would have been just through a time trial competition, but that would require trust of others. I won't lie.

I think different control methods should be allowed if different wheels are. I don't have easy access to an ethernet connection so it will be hard for me to go online with 360 as I don't have wireless stick and not the slimmer version. Might sell it soon and wait until they do a further die shrink for the 360 chips which should be sometime soon. I have got some 48HR online pass somewhere, don't know if it is still valid though.

I would prefer a quick time trial competition though. I think you posted an image of some Mustang one a while back for GT5. The settings I think should be ABS on, everything else off and in Forza's case option with manual and clutch should not be forced. It felt a bit awkward using clutch as a button on a pad but I hear it gives advantages so it will be better if it is off for all as I guess a digital on off clutch will be quicker than an analogue pedal.

 

[t.o.]

Yes a showdown would be good. The easiest way would have been just through a time trial competition, but that would require trust of others. I won't lie.

I think different control methods should be allowed if different wheels are. I don't have easy access to an ethernet connection so it will be hard for me to go online with 360 as I don't have wireless stick and not the slimmer version. Might sell it soon and wait until they do a further die shrink for the 360 chips which should be sometime soon. I have got some 48HR online pass somewhere, don't know if it is still valid though.

I would prefer a quick time trial competition though. I think you posted an image of some Mustang one a while back for GT5. The settings I think should be ABS on, everything else off and in Forza's case option with manual and clutch should not be forced. It felt a bit awkward using clutch as a button on a pad but I hear it gives advantages so it will be better if it is off for all as I guess a digital on off clutch will be quicker than an analogue pedal.

Both games should be at their optimum playing field. Both games with all off should be the base. Clutch is part of the game and should be allowed, that can be debated. However NO mixing of control methods otherwise we wind up right back where we started. Stick users with stick users, wheel users with wheel users. The only reason clutch would be up for debate is because the Microsoft wheel doesn't have one.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Both games should be at their optimum playing field. Both games with all off should be the base. Clutch is part of the game and should be allowed, that can be debated. However NO mixing of control methods otherwise we wind up right back where we started. Stick users with stick users, wheel users with wheel users. The only reason clutch would be up for debate is because the Microsoft wheel doesn't have one.

We have different pedals though. You have the Clubsports, I have DFGT pedals so without ABS, you might be at a bigger advantage, well according to ISR you would be anyway. I think ABS on minimum setting in GT5 and on on Forza would make it fairer personally. Pad users should be able to compete on either GT5 or FM3 I would say as they don't have different physics engines for both, well GT certainly. I don't have a wheel for 360 so will only be able to do pad times. Clutch is available to use in GT5 but my wheel doesn't have one so I won't be able to use it. I think it will be easier if we don't allow clutch and ABS off as forced restrictions as that evens out most of different wheel and pad advantages. Could be a two tier leaderboard though if we are doing time trial.

I hope this is not off topic as really this is for both games and this is FM Vs GT. Might be good to do on both tracks and same cars in both games to see also difference in lap times.

 

[t.o.]

We have different pedals though. You have the Clubsports, I have DFGT pedals so without ABS, you might be at a bigger advantage, well according to ISR you would be anyway. I think ABS on minimum setting in GT5 and on on Forza would make it fairer personally. Pad users should be able to compete on either GT5 or FM3 I would say as they don't have different physics engines for both, well GT certainly. I don't have a wheel for 360 so will only be able to do pad times. Clutch is available to use in GT5 but my wheel doesn't have one so I won't be able to use it. I think it will be easier if we don't allow clutch and ABS off as forced restrictions as that evens out most of different wheel and pad advantages. Could be a two tier leaderboard though if we are doing time trial.

I hope this is not off topic as really this is for both games and this is FM Vs GT. Might be good to do on both tracks and same cars in both games to see also difference in lap times.

We can debate the particulars at a later date. I just would like to see the interest these events would hold, wonder who would be interested in this.

 

[jasjeet]

From what ive played, i can get the same burnout with a Pad and Wheel on F3, TCS is not a permanent assist in any way like the steering assist.

I have F3 and GT5 and will have F4 when it arrives, ill be happy to do any Pad testing between both games if anyone wants me too (havent got Gold though). My MS Wheel is broken atm.

 

[Kreepnslayer]

We can debate the particulars at a later date. I just would like to see the interest these events would hold, wonder who would be interested in this.

Dude, I'm down with being a part of this!! I haven't sold my copy of GT5 yet. It'd be good to get it back out again.

 

[VXR]

I don't know of many FM3 RWD cars using a pad that can't be made to power-oversteer on demand, so my driving style obviously promotes tail-happy driving.

Some of you must be smooth operators.

 

[Luminis]

I don't know of many FM3 RWD cars using a pad that can't be made to power-oversteer on demand, so my driving style obviously promotes tail-happy driving.

Some of you must be smooth operators.

Same for me... So far, if I wanted a car's back end to slide out, i would just stomp the accelerator before the corner's apex, and violá, my NSX would start to slide around...

But, to be fair, I think it was very easy to prevent that stuff from happening with the pad, if you wanted to.

 

[Bogie 19th]

I don't know of many FM3 RWD cars using a pad that can't be made to power-oversteer on demand, so my driving style obviously promotes tail-happy driving.

Some of you must be smooth operators.

Indeed. Try starting out with an old fastback stang without feathering the gas. You will just sit and spin, and then begin donuts. Try that in a turn? Fo get bout it.

But, to be fair, I think it was very easy to prevent that stuff from happening with the pad, if you wanted to.

Upgrade tire, increase tire width, enable traction control, enable stability control, reduce horsepower, and feather the gas even more.

 

[t.o.]

Well it looks like some interest in this "experiment" is growing, good. Challenge will be finding cars similar enough between both games.