- 28,352
- Brooklyn, NY
- KR_Viper
- I Renown I
Wait, what? Didn't he already state that different compounds were going to be in? 
Forza Motorsport 5 |OT| Where dreams are Realised
- Thread starter phillgt2002
- 1,397 comments
- 102,056 views
Well Forza sells seems already reached his public with Forza 3 and 4 : 3-4 millions ... I was thinking that with a new generation they will try to propose new racing ingame experience for increase his audience . More Forzavista or reflections on car are not an argument for attract new players . Im sure that players from PC games or GT are interested on Forza franchise only in case if the game increase the simulation side ...
I consider Forza like the best racing franchise on console but i have to admit that the new GT6 seems to offering something more professional ...Im sure that Forza's players are waiting something similar ...
I consider Forza like the best racing franchise on console but i have to admit that the new GT6 seems to offering something more professional ...Im sure that Forza's players are waiting something similar ...
I've been following racing games since before the original Xbox was an idea in some Microsoft employee's head, and will continue to follow them after the XBone is obsolete. I managed to give Gran Turismo 5 a try without ever owning a PS3, and I've discussed the game in the past couple years without ruffling any feathers over bad information (AFAIK).
For all my critique of the series, the Forza franchise is one of the top racing experiences you can buy today, and FM5 will be no different. I'm sure I'll get to try it someday, and I'm sure I'll like it (it's hard to imagine them going backwards on physics from here), but some of the information that's been shared concerns me. I'd like to see FM5 make strides on the "motorsports simulation" side of things, if not for my benefit, then for the benefit of the genre and XBone players with views similar to my own. Turn 10 is one of the leaders in the market now, so anything FM5 does, others are liable to follow.
- 1,258
- NY, NY
- GTP_shawtyoner
- shawtyoner
This is what I don't get, Dan says he gets such a hard on for all the intricate details that come along with a simulation based driving game. I mean going to McClaren and Calspan would suggest that implementing the basic features of tire wear, and fuel consumption, wouldn't be all that hard to do. Yet he states they "have to draw the line somewhere", as if having those things work properly in game would be too much for them to handle? They partnered with Pirelli for FM4 so how tire wear was not properly carried out, or even fixed in a later patch is beyond me.
He is kind of shooting himself in the foot there, especially when he claims that Forza is basically on par with PC simulators. Hopefully, his time spent with Calspan will reflect improvements in this area in FM5.
Regards to the interviewer as well. These are the types of questions and criticisms developers need to face first hand. FM is by far the most well rounded game when it comes to cars and car culture, but they cannot forget about the roots of the series, which is "motorsport".
King1982
(Banned)
- 832
- 90203
- King1982
Dan has said that in FM5 there will be more Motorsport oriented tracks. He also talked about the new Laserscan technology they've implemented. I dont really care about pitstops. What did you expect them to do, make the tyres last as long as in GT5? where after a few laps, the tyres start smoking like they on fire? Make you do a pitstop after 6 laps of racing too add to the excitement?
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- 1,258
- NY, NY
- GTP_shawtyoner
- shawtyoner
If thats your logic then why include anything that even closely resembles realism. Why add damage, telemetry, tuning settings, tire temps, etc? If I am racing, I expect my tires to wear out, I expect fuel to run low. Doesn't have to be as dramatic as GT5, and it also doesn't have to be so unapparent as FM4. However, if its in the game, it should be implemented properly.
- 7,663
- Pasadena, MD
- Minty TS
Have they said no animated pit stops, or was it just no pit-strategy options?
I mean, animated pit stops would be just an extra, to me, but still. We've already seen a few animations of drivers walking by cars, so if they've done some animated people it doesn't seem too unreasonable to have pit stops.
Even when they first said it was technical restraints I took it as "We didn't have time to work out the technical restraints" more than saying it can never be done.
I mean, animated pit stops would be just an extra, to me, but still. We've already seen a few animations of drivers walking by cars, so if they've done some animated people it doesn't seem too unreasonable to have pit stops.
Even when they first said it was technical restraints I took it as "We didn't have time to work out the technical restraints" more than saying it can never be done.
Actually we dont have any informations about animated pit stop or not . We just hope ^^ As you said , there are now some mechanos around the car and its good improvement , its something new in Forza and the franchise really need these type of NEW details for realism. We are on a new gen , its time for some animated mechanos with good motion capture and good dynamic shadow !
Kake Bake
(Banned)
- 333
- United States
- keithb1ack
- keithb1ack
I think T10 would be justified to hold off on animated pit stops until they can get them right; just like weather and day/night. By which I mean, they have to make sure that the re-fuelers and wheelsmen are actually in the correct spot on EVERY car and not just Ray Charles-ing around with their tools (GT5, I'm looking at you). That's a ton of variables to take into account and create animations for.
I hate to play Devil's advocate in this context, but if it's that much labor for such an ancillary feature, it's no big whoop to leave it out.
I hate to play Devil's advocate in this context, but if it's that much labor for such an ancillary feature, it's no big whoop to leave it out.
- 10,850
- Plymouth, UK
- motorforum
The game would do well to have a free roam element and skip the hackneyed Horizon festival piddle so people could really play this game as a piece of virtual automotive culture as they keep marketing it as. For just driving around, Forza feels fantastic and as I'm not really into racing and see it as a means to an end, it suits me fine that they work more on the creative side.
- 7,663
- Pasadena, MD
- Minty TS
On that, but more along the lines of race tracks, I'd like to see them make an "open" version of every track for games like tag, and such. Basically just remove all of the barriers separating different layouts of the tracks.
And I'd be willing to bet there aren't many people who want free roam to be the focus of a series like Forza, including myself. Would I like to see a free roam Forza game that focuses on car culture without focusing on the "swag" culture? Yes, but I would hate to see the series make a shift to focusing on that type of game.
EDIT: Turns out IE has an autocorrect feature.
And I'd be willing to bet there aren't many people who want free roam to be the focus of a series like Forza, including myself. Would I like to see a free roam Forza game that focuses on car culture without focusing on the "swag" culture? Yes, but I would hate to see the series make a shift to focusing on that type of game.
EDIT: Turns out IE has an autocorrect feature.
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- 11,297
- Sweden
- eran0004
Keep in mind that he needs to keep a balance. Going all in for making a racing simulator would make the game more popular with one audience, but with the risk of losing big parts of their other audiences (which he says are bigger than the hardcore racing audience). He says it himself, "that's not what brought us here". A big part of the console audience consists of people who are mainly interested in gaming, to get the attention of that audience it's not enough to make the cars drive like real and think that it will attract the gamers. The gamers wants gameplay and sometimes you need to sacrifice a bit of realism in order to get better gameplay. To me it sounds like he knows what he wants to do, he knows where the balance is and he is looking at it from a rational point of view - which he needs to do, since he is running a business.
- 9,295
- Duisburg
I can only answer for myself, but I want to keep an eye on Forza for the same reason I keep an eye on Gran Turismo (and some other games I've put on hold, like StarCraft, Dota or, until recently, World of WarCraft): I might return to these games some day. Those are some of the games I've played for a good bit of time at one point in time (or for a few iterations in their franchise) and I don't want to get out of touch entirely.
Likewise, I'd like to know where Forza is heading. I might not be getting Forza 5 (or any upcoming Forza titles for the foreseeable future, really), but I can't deny that I would still love to get a chance to do so. Dunno, maybe with successor of the XBOne, or something. I guess you could say that it's just hard to let go.
While I, personally, understand (and appreciate) that Forza is being made to cover the middle ground between hardcore simulators and arcade racing games, I have to say that I can understand where the frustration comes from, for the more racing-focused players.
Forza has the tools to make racing better than it is today and T10 could manage to find a way to implement it alongside improvements to other aspects of the game. For someone who bought previous Forza games mainly for the racing experience it's got to be hard to accept that T10's advancing stuff like painting while they've arguably taken a few steps back with the actual racing. Forza started out as a game that had something for everyone and now that the non-racing aspects get better and better, the racing-oriented players might feel left out if T10 isn't throwing them a bone or two.
Again, I don't want to directly criticise T10 or anything. But the interview does sound like Dan tries to avoid answering the questions directly. From my point of view, it seemed like the interviewer was mainly asking one thing: "Why aren't you working on the actual racing?" and Dan was like "Because we don't care about it any more. We've got the basics covered and that's all we want." I'm exaggerating this a little, but I guess you're getting my point.
And while I absolutely agree that they've got to draw the line somewhere, I'd assume that T10 could find some middle ground between taking five years to release their game and not advancing certain parts of Forza to get a game out of the door every two years. And let's be honest, a few small touches would go a long way for some of the racers out there. Adding some sort of online league system shouldn't be too hard to do for T10, given that they've already got the infra structure to run Leaderboards and Rivals Mode and Car Clubs. Adding a Racing League feature could be implemented as an extension of that and shut up a lot of racers who are asking for more support for their "part" of Forza. And that's something that some stupid bloke on a message board came up with on a fly, just think about what T10 could do if they wanted to.
^ What makes it frustrating is that several of the things hardcore racers want are essentially no more than variable tweaks or menu buttons. Longer races (tick the lap count up). Meaningful tire wear and fuel usage (adjust the rate). Actual race options in a singleplayer free race (add a UI like in a custom multiplayer lobby).
I've got a smidgen of programming background myself, and it really should not be hard to add some of these things to the game, as completely optional features.
I've got a smidgen of programming background myself, and it really should not be hard to add some of these things to the game, as completely optional features.
- 1,789
- The Motor City
- HAL20xx
- HAL20xx
You both nailed it. Just like driving with a Kinect is entirely optional, why not throw us a bone when it comes to adding race-type elements. While improving the physics is great (which to me is a required advancement), it's not enough to satiate a need for a truer race-like experience.
King1982
(Banned)
- 832
- 90203
- King1982
Well said, here's what Dan had to say about it.
Forza 5 will be so good that it should be forgiven if it doesn't feature "every feature under the sun", Turn 10 creative director Dan Greenawalt has said.
Quizzed by ifcaracing about the lack of features such as simulated pit stops, tire wear, fuel consumption and more, Greenawalt said: "We feel that the true source of Forza entertainment comes from its overall execution and the emotional connection derived from its unparalleled immersive content.
"I feel that any details that are allegedly missing are far outweighed by our cutting edge graphics and physics. But it's not just these critical aspects; it's also (in the case of FM5) the new power of the Cloud that places us on an entirely new plateau beyond anything anyone has out there. So, I think we can be forgiven if we don't have every feature under the sun."
Greenawalt also made what appears to be a reference to Polyphony Digital's extended development periods for its Gran Turismo games, stating: "We'd like to have every good idea there is, but we have to draw lines too, otherwise we might take 5 years to produce the next version."
And in further defence of Forza and his team at Turn 10, Greenawalt added: "Seriously, we could make a hardcore race sim, but that's not what got us here. We can't take the path that others with less success take; we have to forge our own path.
"And as much as we try to be everything to everyone whether they are a car guy or not, we can only go so deep with any single feature if you know what I mean."
source: http://www.videogamer.com/xboxone/f...ntirely_new_plateau_beyond_anything_else.html
Quote:
- Interviewer: Fair enough. So without a specific vision of what the Forza franchise should generally be, that is, without a specific direction from Turn 10, do you run the risk of being the Jack of all trades, and the master of none in the car simulation genre?
Dan: (laughing) Not at all. We see Forza as being the master of everything offered by any simulation car game available anywhere, whether on a console or PC. Forza stands alone in our opinion because it offers so much more at such a higher level than anything else out there.
- 40,879
Especially when the hardest core of PC sims usually have the ability to be "dumbed down" to be accessible to everyone. I can boot up a race in rFactor and adjust the AI to 100% aggression and skill, then run a 24 hour race with 7x fuel and tire wear with damage on at 30x time progression. Or I can do a one lap sprint with the AI on 70% with fuel and tire wear off and no damage, then hand the car off to an AI driver.
Options options options.
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- 9,295
- Duisburg
See, that's what I don't get. He's talking about these things as if racers were asking T10 to work a miracle while they're really asking for some relatively minor additions.
Well... I don't know what to say to that any more. I mean, if they were to give the racers, say, an adjustable pit strategy, proper tyre wear and fuel consumption, would that take three additional years? The basics for these are in already. I just can't see it taken years of development time to bump the fuel consumption and tyre wear rate up a notch. I can neither see it taking years to add soft, medium and hard racing slicks to the game, alongside the ability to switch between them mid-race. Stopping the refuelling at, say, 50% of your car's capacity shouldn't be that tough, either.
And that would go a long, long way already. It's far from "every feature under the sun", isn't it?
Thing is, they're going deeper and deeper with other features. The livery editor gets improved from game to game, photo mode got big shots, the social structure like the car clubs are being worked on - and the only thing in a racing game that's stagnating is the racing. Again, I, for one, don't need Forza to be a hardcore sim. I'd turn to other games for that, but I can totally see where the frustration is coming from. And to add insult to injury, Dan's acting like the Forza's got all major aspects of racing down.
And to think that some rather minor features would contribute so much to the game, yet T10 being unwilling to implement them... I can't get my head around it. Adding Autovista for FM4 must've consumed a hundred times as many man-hours as increasing fuel consumption and tyre wear would've consumed. But adding Autovista did fit in their schedule, right?
As much as I like Dan, his enthusiasm and even his approach when it comes to promoting Forza, this is downright wrong. Forza doesn't have the best physics, it doesn't have the best graphics. It doesn't have the best racing and it doesn't have the biggest car count. It doesn't have the best online multiplayer and it doesn't have the best offline career.
It is very much a jack of all trades, which is why the game is actually as great as it is. That's my opinion, of course, but he said it himself: Spreading across so many different things is what made Forza successful and well known. To argue that it's the master of everything at once is... Well, it's similar to the "The Definitive Racing Game" claim he made back in the day. It's PR talk and one shouldn't read too much into it, but it's still not true.
King1982
(Banned)
- 832
- 90203
- King1982
Luminis i dont know what the big deal isa bout all of those things you mentioned.
Really not important imo. At least the tyrewear is better than gt5, where after a few laps the tyres start smocking like they're on fire and ruined. The tyrewear is in FM4 is realistic. New race tyres dont fall apart after 20 laps of racing. (maybe f1 at the moment)
Who cares about animated pitstops? Not me.
You talk about adjustable pit strategy, proper tyre wear and fuel consumption.
Forza has allmost all of those. Just not in career mode. Big deal.
If you want that go play f1 2012 that game has lots of tyrewear and pitstop strategies.
Fm5 will feature F1 and Indycars, all cars will have an Forzavista equivelant. That alone opens up a whole new type of online racing series with custum liveries and teams. I think a lot of people will be blown away after all this negative publicity. Mark my words.
Really not important imo. At least the tyrewear is better than gt5, where after a few laps the tyres start smocking like they're on fire and ruined. The tyrewear is in FM4 is realistic. New race tyres dont fall apart after 20 laps of racing. (maybe f1 at the moment)
Who cares about animated pitstops? Not me.
You talk about adjustable pit strategy, proper tyre wear and fuel consumption.
Forza has allmost all of those. Just not in career mode. Big deal.
If you want that go play f1 2012 that game has lots of tyrewear and pitstop strategies.
Fm5 will feature F1 and Indycars, all cars will have an Forzavista equivelant. That alone opens up a whole new type of online racing series with custum liveries and teams. I think a lot of people will be blown away after all this negative publicity. Mark my words.
- 40,879
I stopped reading here. No, it's not. GT5's doesn't function properly. FM4's is practically nonexistent. Neither of them are anywhere near realistic.
2 years for a Forza because:
Turn10 have many employer and money, they make outsourcing in India and Vietnam . Indian ( Dhruva interactive ) had created all the Forza Vista cars and maybe 80% of Forza cars ( they work since the first ... ) , in Vietnam : they modelise car crash damage , cars and some tracks ... Turn10 concentrate only on physics, recording sounds and check the work of outsourcing ... For this reason they can bring a game every 2 years . But when you look closely in details , you understand why there no unity in this " creative and artistic " work in general : strange colors , strange texture ( taken from basic texture data bank ) when PD travel or use helicopter for taking the good shots who will become the texture of the game.
Since Forza 3 until Forza 5 : 4 years and still not having racing ingame features ... ForzaVista is just a question of hardwork from Indian . It not surprise me ... With Forza 5, including new racing features they can up the sells , if not , they can loose ...
And like said Tornado , is all question if Option ON / OFF and % ...
Turn10 have many employer and money, they make outsourcing in India and Vietnam . Indian ( Dhruva interactive ) had created all the Forza Vista cars and maybe 80% of Forza cars ( they work since the first ... ) , in Vietnam : they modelise car crash damage , cars and some tracks ... Turn10 concentrate only on physics, recording sounds and check the work of outsourcing ... For this reason they can bring a game every 2 years . But when you look closely in details , you understand why there no unity in this " creative and artistic " work in general : strange colors , strange texture ( taken from basic texture data bank ) when PD travel or use helicopter for taking the good shots who will become the texture of the game.
Since Forza 3 until Forza 5 : 4 years and still not having racing ingame features ... ForzaVista is just a question of hardwork from Indian . It not surprise me ... With Forza 5, including new racing features they can up the sells , if not , they can loose ...
And like said Tornado , is all question if Option ON / OFF and % ...
- 1,789
- The Motor City
- HAL20xx
- HAL20xx
I'm listening to the Smoking Tire interview with Dan Greenawalt, and it sounds like the lions share of their attention will be going into the tires. Dan just mentioned that they will not be simulating tire blowouts (no surprise), but they will be simulating the way that tires "super heat and grease up". There will also be a noticeable improvement to the way a car understeers.
Additionally, they have a new mass block, kinetic model on the suspension, and advancements in aero.
EDIT: Dan G, "A **** load of cars were cut and recaptured". Makes me feel better on the final count.
Additionally, they have a new mass block, kinetic model on the suspension, and advancements in aero.
EDIT: Dan G, "A **** load of cars were cut and recaptured". Makes me feel better on the final count.
- 207
- East Midlands
- BrAdErZz93
- BrAdErZtHeBriTx
Ugh...
Not sure if serious...
I couldn't help but chuckle to myself when reading this post. It's like you have Forza goggles permanently fixed to your face, blind to any criticism from other fellow posters among this forum. These are OPINIONS! Exactly like what you have posted here. I'm really sorry to sound blunt, but this is just irritating to read. No game is perfect.
Now I'm slightly annoyed at the lack of racing features in the next Forza instalment, yeah it's going to be a solid racing game as the series always is but I say, GIVE US THE OPTION to turn these small details/features on! IMO when they talk about focus groups, they all seem to be the average Joe that picks Forza up pre-owned months after release for a quick bit of fun. I wouldn't say there even massive features to implement. Maybe I'm in no position to speak as I'm no developer...
Thanks for reading anyway. 👍
Brad.
- 10,957
- Canada
Looks like somebody in here is pure blind.... 
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