GP of Brazil 2007

[Sting]

Sorry Hun, I disagree.

Yes it was Hamilton's fault that he locked up and ran wide at turn 4.
However it wasn't his fault that his car would not select gear afterwards. Had that not happen he wouldn't have dropped back so much and would have been in a position to do better.

I wonder how far Kimi's merit is responsible, especially since Massa controlled that race until the 2nd pitstops, Kimi suddenly starts to lead.

 

[niky]

Kimi whanged in a bunch of fastest laps after Massa's pitstop in order to build up a lead on him.

Yes, even without "team orders", Ferrari's fuel strategy was designed to give Kimi the breathing space between their pitstops in order to build up that cushion.

And it nearly didn't work... despite being held up by traffic on his pit exit, Massa was still pretty close to Kimi when he got out of the pits. Those two guys were racing for that position, no ifs and buts.

Even if team strategy was designed for a Kimi win, it was done in a way that gave each driver a chance.

 

[mipuumal]

Sorry Hun, I disagree.

Yes it was Hamilton's fault that he locked up and ran wide at turn 4.
However it wasn't his fault that his car would not select gear afterwards. Had that not happen he wouldn't have dropped back so much and would have been in a position to do better.

It was theorized before that Hamilton's off caused rubbish to get in to his cooling ducts.

I wonder how far Kimi's merit is responsible, especially since Massa controlled that race until the 2nd pitstops, Kimi suddenly starts to lead.

I love reading these comments from apparent "casual" F1 fans who don't follow live timing during the race or have that much knowledge overall.

Kimi did 2 laps below 1:12.8 while Massa was backed up a little by David Coulthard after his pitstop.

 

[livemusic]

I think Massa backed off. He was doing 1:12-high laps and when Kimi pitted he did 1:15... But he did what he had to do and I'm glad with this result. Next season he might be the one needing Kimi's help in the last race.

 

[MustangSVT]

The way their strategy worked, it was to Kimi's advantage, if and only if he was fast enough to take advantage of it, similar in fashion to how in the past Kimi overtook Felipe at Magny-Cours or how Schumacher would do 2-3 extra laps over rivals. Kimi was able to put in some perfect laps in in those 3 laps before his 2nd pit stop and also his inlap was also better than Massa's I believe.

The question is, was Massa going at 100% pace before the pit stops, or was he just going at near 100% to allow the cushion to Kimi to not become too big? I guess we'll never really know.

 

[<_Spike_>]

Yesterday, Hamilton showed that he is (was, the season is over), indeed, a rookie. The mistake in the first lap, and the way he treated his car after that, can only come from inexperience.

It's his own fault (and of course Kimi's merit) that he lost this championship. All he needed to do was to "sit behind" Alonso for the entire race ...

No different to Alonso doing that twice earlier in the season and making a pretty zealous move that costs him a race win, is it really such a "rookie" mistake to go off the track these days? Raikkonen also guilty of that a few times this season.

 

[Brett]

Originally, I was going to quote the four posts that I have linked to in this post; but instead, I decided to use links because they dramatically shorten my post and I already had my one long post for the thread.

I wanted to use this post to point out some quality posts in the thread, as I feel that is better than just rehashing what each individual said. I am sure I missed some other quality posts while reading through all the post and I apologize for not linking them also. Everyone is really doing a good job of making great posts at the moment! A vast majority of this thread is a testament to greatness of members of GTP. 👍

A post by Blake.

Very nice post Blake! 👍 It really sums up a lot of how I feel also. I am still in a small state of shock that everything could fall into place for a driver that has been so notoriously unlucky. It is all just improbable, but yet it managed to happen yesterday. It was yet another magical moment in a season that has had a great multitude of them. This will be a year I hope to never forget and hopefully when I am old, I will be able to tell someone the story of Kimi’s improbable comeback (and that story will include the young rookie who turned into a superstar in his first year and the two-time champion who almost willed his way to another championship).

A post by niky.

A post by Pupik.

Two more good posts! 👍 Everyone is just doing a wonderful job of making good posts! Really great stuff by everyone!

A post by Digital-Nitrate.

And another! 👍

 

[livemusic]

^That's a post full of posts you posted there.

 

[Sureboss]

Kimi whanged in a bunch of fastest laps after Massa's pitstop in order to build up a lead on him.

Yes, even without "team orders", Ferrari's fuel strategy was designed to give Kimi the breathing space between their pitstops in order to build up that cushion.

And it nearly didn't work... despite being held up by traffic on his pit exit, Massa was still pretty close to Kimi when he got out of the pits. Those two guys were racing for that position, no ifs and buts.

Even if team strategy was designed for a Kimi win, it was done in a way that gave each driver a chance.

The strategy worked well, there's no doubting who the strategy was designed for. I personally don't have a problem with team orders especially if one can win the title, I don't agree with the statement that they were 100% racing for position though, everyone knows that Massa had to give to Kimi no matter how well Ferrari disguised it.

I don't know if this has been posted or not...

http://www.formula1.com/news/interviews/2007/10/7014.html

Mosley interview, interesting.

 

[Brett]

^That's a post full of posts you posted there.

Indeed it is! 👍

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

No different to Alonso doing that twice earlier in the season and making a pretty zealous move that costs him a race win, is it really such a "rookie" mistake to go off the track these days? Raikkonen also guilty of that a few times this season.

I'm glad someone responded to that. Geez. If they think Hamilton going off course in that race was a "rookie mistake" and showed his "inexperience"... then by all means explain this move from Alonso at this year's Canadian GP:



(actual footage was removed... and replaced with a clever reinactment... makes me want to play some F1:CE)

Good heavens... I lost track how many times Alonso went off track that race, and his decision to go full out and jump the curb right in front of Hamilton coming off the first turn at the start of the race (as shown in that video) was absolutely stupid! He was a fraction of a second from crashing right into Hamilton and knocking them both, and probably several cars behind them out of the race! Frankly I was shocked they didn't penalize him for such a reckless move, and trying to gain position when he went off the course and then proceeed to stay off the course and jumped the curb instead of slowing down and re-entering the course properly and safely!

If anything deserves to be called a rookie mistake and a sign of inexperience, it was that start from Alonso. For crying out loud... he qualified in P2... yet drove like it was the last chance to make a pass at the end of the race... rather than the first corner of the start of the race.

BTW: That race was hardly his first and only time Alonso has made such poor decisions and spent time running off the track, and it's not just his "mistakes" that can come under question. Let us not forget Alonso's move on Hamilton at the start of the Belgian GP at Spa!!!

It looks like ITV and SPEED had the official coverage of that incident removed from YouTube, but you can certainly read some comments about it even here.

It's also likely why Alonso got booed at the podium at the end of the race:



"If you can't beat him... purposefully force him off course and then accuse him of going off course to try and pass him."

This year certainly has exposed a lot about Alonso I'm sure he and his supporters would just as well soon forget ever happened. I'm still holding out hope that we will see the same kind of Alonso we saw in 2005. 👍

 

[Danoff]

Yay Kimi!

Mr. Unlucky just got extremely lucky. Looks things finally swung the other way for him - and all at once. An incredibly serendipitous end to his season.

I think Massa backed off. He was doing 1:12-high laps and when Kimi pitted he did 1:15...

He hit traffic on that lap, not to mention the fact that he had just fueled up and was significantly heavier. It wasn't completely clear to me that Kimi didn't take that place on his own - exactly as Ferrari wanted it I'm sure. Perhaps Massa came in a lap early, we'll never know.

At the end of the race, Kimi admitted that both Ferraris were backing off. He said they could have gone faster but that they didn't need to so they didn't. Kimi probably didn't push Massa too much because he felt he didn't need to. Massa wouldn't fight for the position because he didn't want to screw up Ferrari's finish. If it had been a straight fight, I think Massa just might have done it (he was flying), but like I said, we'll never know. And it's just as well.

 

[JohnBM01]

Congratulations to Kimi Raikkonen. Not that I brag, but I figured this wouldn't be Hamilton's year. He somewhat brought a lot of this on himself late, but he still put up one hell of an effort. He WILL be an F1 champion. This wasn't his year. I had the feeling all year long that he will win this year. However, I never reversed my view that he'd win the crown. He did great. Just better luck next season.

I saw limited amounts of this race. Interlagos is such a tricky place. It's like an oval in terms of high speed, but a purely technical race course. I have to imagine what the popular, much longer configuration of old was like at Interlagos. Anyhow, the 2007 season is over, and we can only imagine what next season will bring.

 

[<_Spike_>]

I just hope that Renault kick it up next season, I could see Alonso there...and a battle between Ferrari (with Massa and Kimi), McLaren (with Hamilton and #2 or Alonso should he miraculously stay) and Renault (with a no doubt expected line up of Alonso and Heikki)

 

[Alex.]

I'm glad someone responded to that. Geez. If they think Hamilton going off course in that race was a "rookie mistake" and showed his "inexperience"... then by all means explain this move from Alonso at this year's Canadian GP:

LEWIS HAMILLLLLLLLLTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNN

































































WIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINS.

how annoying is james allen?

 

[G.T]

I love how James called Finland "tiny" too. England's hardly that big either...

 

[<_Spike_>]

In size no not really, in "stature"...eh just a whee bit bigger than Finland lol.

 

[daan]

I love how James called Finland "tiny" too. England's hardly that big either...

England's population = ~55million
Finland's population = ~5million

Therefore, Finland = tiny.

 

[Diego440]

That's probably a popular personal opinion among Alonso fans... although I also suspect it falls well short of having any reasonable amount of evidence to support it.

For the record, I am not an Alonso fan.

I also happen to be a McLaren fan, regardless of the driver.

But fair's fair.

 

[Metar]

I hate what Alonso did the Hamilton in the opening turn... but then again, they're racing for the crown, and all's fair in war. But in the end, his gamble didn't pay off... but still, it was a well-played gambit by the two veterans.

Err... What did he do? He passed Hamilton in turn 3, perfectly legally and very safe. He had the inside line, he was already halfway through.

The FIA went to great lengths to ensure Alonso was getting fair treatment from his team. Somehow they missed the Ferraris swapping places during their pit stops.

But it did help that Raikkonen set two very fast laps while Massa pitted? He was 3 seconds quicker than what Massa ran at the time, so his move forward was pretty easy considering the previous gap was 1.5 seconds (approx.) in Massa's favour.

(actual footage was removed... and replaced with a clever reinactment... makes me want to play some F1:CE)

Pfft.

That'd be GP4, baby.

 

[G.T]

England's population = ~55million
Finland's population = ~5million

Therefore, Finland = tiny.

Ah, I was thinking in land size. In population, yes, that's a tiny amount.

 

[Metar]

Oh, and I'd like to give an honorary award to Charlie Whiting, for the best decision taken in this season: Not to send out the safety car.

I think it's a record, just 14 finishers and not a single SC period...

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Pfft.

That'd be GP4, baby.

I know, it's even in the YouTube description:

Highlights of the best race of the 2007 season so far recreated with Geoff Crammond's Grand Prix 4 2007 MOD.

Original sound, Commentary by James Allen and Martin Brundle of ITV F1

The Highlights are:
The Start, Fernando Alonso running wide losing 2nd place to Nick Heidfeld.
Jenson Button stalling on the grid.
Scott Speed retiring pulling off the track.
Alonso running wide again in the first corner, losing a place to Felipe Massa.
Felipe Massa and Giancarlo Fisichella getting the Black Flag and being disqualified from the race.
Jarno Trulli crashing under the Safety Car.
Takuma Sato in the Super Aguri overtaking round the outside of Fernando Alonso in the Mclaren.
Lewis Hamilton crossing the line to win his first Grand Prix.

I was not going to recreate the Robert Kubica crash as it was not only a horrific crash it would be nearly impossible to recrate that kind of crash on GP4.

Hope you enjoy the video (more) (less)

What I said is that it makes me want to play some F1:CE because IMO F1:CE is the best overall F1 game so far. 👍

 

[Metar]

If only GP4 had a career mode, and some basic control in the pits.

 

[<_Spike_>]

England's population = ~55million
Finland's population = ~5million

Therefore, Finland = tiny.

Problem is... Actually no I won't start a immigrant debate lol.

Anyhow!

For the record, I am not an Alonso fan.

I also happen to be a McLaren fan, regardless of the driver.

But fair's fair.

Not the only one at least, I'm team above driver (yes I'm sure that may be hard to believe, but true.)

 

[Famine]

But it did help that Raikkonen set two very fast laps while Massa pitted? He was 3 seconds quicker than what Massa ran at the time, so his move forward was pretty easy considering the previous gap was 1.5 seconds (approx.) in Massa's favour.

Certainly - and given that all teams know where all the cars are on the track at any time, there can be no doubt that Massa exiting in traffic and Kimi having a clear track for 2 laps before he pitted was entirely coincidental.

 

[ExigeEvan]

England's population = ~55million
Finland's population = ~5million

Therefore, Finland = tiny.

So what's the make Wales?

Oh right, I remember, so uminportant that we get missed out on EU maps.


But yeah, a very interesting end to the season, nice to see KR win a title he quite well deserves as there's no denying he's a good driver which has had a very bad run of luck.

 

[Blake]

It really doesn't feel like Ferrari won the constructors though, nor does it feel like they have done the double, if that makes sense.

But had McLaren not been excluded from the championship Ferrari still would have won both titles.

The colder the fuel, the less space it takes up, and hence carries more oxygen in the same space than warmer fuel does. More Oxygen = more efficient combustion.

How long would the fuel stay that dense, though? Surely it doesn’t take that long for it to warm up…

At a certain point de la Rosa said that on Hamilton's outing, some dirt, stones or debris got in his hydraulics which elevated the temperature and wouldn't let him change gears... it was his inexperience.

…

He ran over a meter of grass and then onto concrete then back over a meter of grass. If that broke the bullet-proof McLaren I’ll eat my shirt.

Probably that they should never have placed too much trust on a rookie and let the World Champion in the team act as a world champion and not reverse the roles, placing him iin the bottom of the trust chain.

They didn’t reverse the roles. They gave both drivers equal resources and equal opportunity to become champion.

 

[Sureboss]

But had McLaren not been excluded from the championship Ferrari still would have won both titles.

How so?

Alonso and Hamilton 218 points, Kimi and Massa 206.

Of course I'm forgetting the farce of Hungary.

 

[Metar]

If that broke the bullet-proof McLaren I’ll eat my shirt.

You want fries with that?