Gran Turismo 7 Releasing in "First Half of 2021"

[Dave A]

By people referring to x86 as easier, were talking for an "engineer" who interfaces with the machine to get the games engine up and running upon the hardware, not the devs who write the game code or the artists who create the assets. Besides being given a technical document by the engineers setting out guidelines of budgets and do's and don'ts etc, their job is pretty much the same on any platform.

Take the Unreal Engine 4 for example. If you create a game within that engine, you can literally publish your game on PC, Mac, Android, IOS, Playstation, XBox, Nintendo etc. Why? Because the engineers have coded the engine to work on those platforms. Now if I crack open UE4 and start coding my own game through C++ or Blueprints etc, I'm basically creating a game for all those platforms in one go. As long as I keep to the set budgets for the platforms I wanna publish on, I'm good, doesn't matter what the hardware or architecture.

PS3 "time to triangle" was on average 6-12 months PS4 was 1-2 months. That means on average developers had, say, 5-10 months head start when it came to creating their game. That is the reason why PS4 is "easier" to develop for.

So why is dev time longer on PS4 compared to PS3? Quite simply scope. More complex games means more lines of code no matter the game. Which inevitably means more bugs to squash. Then depending on that game, more animations, more dialogue, more 3d models, more textures, more sounds etc. All at a more complex or higher fidelity than the last generation. This means more time and more people either in house or outsourced. There's a lot more to it than just this but I'm sure you get the gist. Basically, bigger game = more time.

The one aspect in relation to a developer like Polyphony as opposed to another developer using Unreal Engine or similar, is Polyphony use thier own in house engine. Therefore that isn't developed for cross platform use (as far as we know) and will neede to be rewritten/extensively adapted for each platform jump.

That's not to shed any light on the other discussion at hand, just a point I thought of sharing. However in general you are absolutely right, I have coded for Android and IoS and Windows 10 within a single application. All you need is the engine framework and the interface that lets you tell it what you want it to do. The engine does the rest. Optomisation is a different matter, but that's something experts rather than myself will learn as they get used to different systems and thier strengths and weaknesses over time.

 

[Samus]

Reading this from outside the discussion, I don't even think you guys are even outright disagreeing with each other.

Indeed.

What I was getting at, but probably didn't convey very well, is that around the release of the PS4 and in the lead-up to it everyone was lauding how much easier it was to develop for, particularly compared to the tricky PS3 CELL. The media and fans were constantly bringing this up, as did developers to a degree. As a result, people expected games like Gran Turismo quicker, so there was shock and disappointment when that didn't happen.

When the reality is what @TrevorPhilips and others have mentioned. Those and other reasons why development wasn't suddenly magnitudes faster, and games took just as long or longer on the 'easier' system.

That's all I was trying to say all along; firstly that a long development cycle doesn't guarantee a huge feature packed and polished game and then that on-paper improvements to developer workflow doesn't necessarily translate to faster speed. Which I thought was just an obvious statement.

The most obvious reason why GT7 is apparently on schedule for a release within a year of the new console and not four years later is mainly that they only developed one game on this console, released three years ago. So in actuality, the same 4 year dev cycle if it is released in 2021. What remains to be seen is how much more content they have/will manage, and if the x86 continuity is a big help. Again on paper it is, but you just never know.

Let's move on.

 

[Castrol96]

GT7 development may be more focused towards Content than optimisation of engine since they are using GT Sport engine with the PBR Shaders now with Ray-tracing reflections.

For Ray-tracing reflections they seem to be using low res, (checkerboard or maybe DLSS) samples with AI denoising. At 60fps?

Reflections in cars were 240p and 24fps in GT Sport. That's an upgrade already.

They need to improve on environments, still full of 2D trees and poor shaders. Hope to see a improvement on that on the next build, either way I'm excited!

 

[oneloops]

Nope, I'm literally just stating facts. Most other studios put out more games than PD. PD only put out one, four years into the generation.

You can theorise the reasons all you want, doesn't change that fact. Also again please read properly, I have never said that PD were making excuses.

Launching GT6 on PS3, the same year than PS4 was released (2013) is not a theory, it's a fact.
You interprete that fact as an excuse and not as a reason.
As always you try to manipulate, I know exactly what you mean, I know your bias and you are very repetitive in it.
Also, you fail "trying to look more clever" than other users with such kind of phrases... ("read properly", "you can theorise, I'm just stating facts", "not your first language?"), you should have more respect for them.

That rubs the insult... Being optimistic (with arguments) is "foolish", "silly", "crazy", "nonsense" ...
and being pessimistic is just arguing based in facts ...
Your repetitive conclusions are not facts, they are only conclusions (opinions), only extrapolations of the past, "the past is the future".

Stop trying to manipulate searching excuses in that poor way. (Like you just state facts and others just theorise...).

 

[SDSPOWER01]

GT7 development may be more focused towards Content than optimisation of engine since they are using GT Sport engine with the PBR Shaders now with Ray-tracing reflections.

For Ray-tracing reflections they seem to be using low res, (checkerboard or maybe DLSS) samples with AI denoising. At 60fps?

Reflections in cars were 240p and 24fps in GT Sport. That's an upgrade already.

They need to improve on environments, still full of 2D trees and poor shaders. Hope to see a improvement on that on the next build, either way I'm excited!

Here is a much more detailed explanation of the ray tracing used in GT7 and well other games too but mostly GT7 is the topic here.

 

[Zlork]

The most obvious reason why GT7 is apparently on schedule for a release within a year of the new console and not four years later is mainly that they only developed one game on this console, released three years ago. So in actuality, the same 4 year dev cycle if it is released in 2021. What remains to be seen is how much more content they have/will manage, and if the x86 continuity is a big help. Again on paper it is, but you just never know.

Yes and no. They probably didn't get the PS5 development kit so early. So, they have developed a new engine on the x86 architecture, which helped a lot for the future because it reduced the time for adaptation.

There is all the nuance there. If it had been a different architecture, it probably would have taken more time (and money).

 

[Samus]

Launching GT6 on PS3, the same year than PS4 was released (2013) is not a theory, it's a fact.
You interprete that fact as an excuse and not as a reason.

No I didn't. You're the one who is using that fact at all. When have PD explicitly said GT6 is a primary reason for only one PS4 game? They haven't.

As always you try to manipulate, I know exactly what you mean, I know your bias and you are very repetitive in it.
Also, you fail "trying to look more clever" than other users with such kind of phrases... ("read properly", "you can theorise, I'm just stating facts", "not your first language?"), you should have more respect for them.

They have all been more than fair.

That rubs the insult... Being optimistic (with arguments) is "foolish", "silly", "crazy", "nonsense" ...
and being pessimistic is just arguing based in facts ...
Your repetitive conclusions are not facts, they are only conclusions (opinions), only extrapolations of the past, "the past is the future".

I assume you're talking about your idea for GT7 releasing in 2020.

What do you know, I was right. Precedent exists as a concept for a reason. Sometimes it's broken, but more often than not, it isn't. It's perfectly normal to look to the past when thinking about the future but again with the failing to read, I have never bluntly said "the past is the future". So don't put it in quote marks unless you can actually quote it.

Stop trying to manipulate searching excuses in that poor way. (Like you just state facts and others just theorise...).

Again, unless you have a statement from PD, you do only have theories for why they only released one PS4 game. They may be pretty logical theories, but they're still just theories.

Yes and no. They probably didn't get the PS5 development kit so early. So, they have developed a new engine on the x86 architecture, which helped a lot for the future because it reduced the time for adaptation.

There is all the nuance there. If it had been a different architecture, it probably would have taken more time (and money).

Huh? Did you mean PS4? In which case no, it was the complete opposite of getting dev kits late, they were actively involved in the development process.

https://www.teamvvv.com/news/polyphony-digital-associated-with-ps4-ps-vita-development/

"Key members of Polyphony Digital are involved in the very development of the PS4 and the PS Vita. I am thinking of asking them what’s going on with Gran Turismo, but related matters will be probably made clear by its representative Kazunori Yamauchi in due time."

 

[oneloops]

No I didn't. You're the one who is using that fact at all. When have PD explicitly said GT6 is a primary reason for only one PS4 game? They haven't.



They have all been more than fair.



I assume you're talking about your idea for GT7 releasing in 2020.

What do you know, I was right. Precedent exists as a concept for a reason. Sometimes it's broken, but more often than not, it isn't. It's perfectly normal to look to the past when thinking about the future but again with the failing to read, I have never bluntly said "the past is the future". So don't put it in quote marks unless you can actually quote it.



Again, unless you have a statement from PD, you do only have theories for why they only released one PS4 game. They may be pretty logical theories, but they're still just theories.



Huh? Did you mean PS4? In which case no, it was the complete opposite of getting dev kits late, they were actively involved in the development process.

https://www.teamvvv.com/news/polyphony-digital-associated-with-ps4-ps-vita-development/

When have PD explicitly said GT6 is a primary excuse for only one PS4 game ? They haven't... do you see how easy is to break your fake conclusions ?

Your conclusions are wrong very often, because you extrapolate what you want as a fact... they are only your personal conclusions, not facts.

By the way, my "idea" about gt7 2020 launch was that it was unlikely. Stop manipulating again and again.

And by the way again, "..." doesn't always mean quote. You should know that. But you can interprete what you want in order to manipulate... or because you make many wrong conclusions.

 

[NickXP]

Nope, I'm literally just stating facts. Most other studios put out more games than PD. PD only put out one, four years into the generation.

You must be talking about fifa, aren't you?

 

[Samus]

When have PD explicitly said GT6 is a primary excuse for only one PS4 game ? They haven't... do you see how easy is to break your fake conclusions ?

Your conclusions are wrong very often, because you extrapolate what you want as a fact... they are only your personal conclusions, not facts.

Exactly my point, PD haven't, but you and NickXP were giving it as a reason. Hence it is just a theory, not a fact. Also, you're the one who keeps using the excuse word over and over, not me. I said reasons OR excuses. I didn't say everything was an excuse. See that struggling to read part again? There is no "fake conclusions".

By the way, my "idea" about gt7 2020 launch was that it was unlikely. Stop manipulating again and again.

What am I manipulating? You said you thought it could come out in 2020, we all told you it wouldn't under any circumstances.

And by the way again, "..." doesn't always mean quote. You should know that. But you can interprete what you want in order to manipulate... or because you make many wrong conclusions.

They are called quotation marks.

You must be talking about fifa, aren't you?

..sure, and the countless other studios that have put out multiple games. It's a pretty simple statement, not an abhorrent attack on PD.

 

[snc]

GT7 development may be more focused towards Content than optimisation of engine since they are using GT Sport engine with the PBR Shaders now with Ray-tracing reflections.

For Ray-tracing reflections they seem to be using low res, (checkerboard or maybe DLSS) samples with AI denoising. At 60fps?

Reflections in cars were 240p and 24fps in GT Sport. That's an upgrade already.

They need to improve on environments, still full of 2D trees and poor shaders. Hope to see a improvement on that on the next build, either way I'm excited!

yeah, 2d trees on ps5 hardware are not acceptable and would be very lazy

 

[JTB10000]

yeah, 2d trees on ps5 hardware are not acceptable and would be very lazy

Unless they future-proofed to where every 2D tree can easily be swapped with a 3D one of the same kind, it would be a monumental task to do that manually, especially on the Nurburgring. And I saw some 2D tree fishiness in the GT7 trailer so I think they're continuing with the 2D stuff.

 

[snc]

Unless they future-proofed to where every 2D tree can easily be swapped with a 3D one of the same kind, it would be a monumental task to do that manually, especially on the Nurburgring. And I saw some 2D tree fishiness going with the trees in the GT7 trailer so I think they're continuing with the 2D stuff.

with current tools ? doubt it's so hard, yeah this trailers, looks almost like presenting new track for gt sport (during gameplay, this cinematic camera angels with rt looks really nice)

 

[queleuleu]

Unless they future-proofed to where every 2D tree can easily be swapped with a 3D one of the same kind, it would be a monumental task to do that manually, especially on the Nurburgring. And I saw some 2D tree fishiness in the GT7 trailer so I think they're continuing with the 2D stuff.

Seriously, they look bad. Flat trees in a 2021 game? This is not my definition of next gen. In general, I think the art direction of track side details is "average". Original tracks in GTSport are often bland in terms of details, they look empty and these ugly flat trees everywhere...
I know Poly can do much better. There are some aspects where Poly is far behind: vegetation, effects like smoke or dirt on the car, camera views, collisions, physics (invisible walls, the foam blocks at Tsukuba act like concrete...).

GT7 will be the flagship racer of the PS5, and even if Forza Horizon is a 30fps arcade game, the graphics and the fun aspect is the reference today. Poly has to change its philosophy like no 360 camera view, static camera, boring AI... A great GT could be one of the best selling game on PS5, the expectations are crazy.

 

[snc]

Seriously, they look bad. Flat trees in a 2021 game? This is not my definition of next gen. In general, I think the art direction of track side details is "average". Original tracks in GTSport are often bland in terms of details, they look empty and these ugly flat trees everywhere...
I know Poly can do much better. There are some aspects where Poly is far behind: vegetation, effects like smoke or dirt on the car, camera views, collisions, physics (invisible walls, the foam blocks at Tsukuba act like concrete...).

GT7 will be the flagship racer of the PS5, and even if Forza Horizon is a 30fps arcade game, the graphics and the fun aspect is the reference today. Poly has to change its philosophy like no 360 camera view, static camera, boring AI... A great GT could be one of the best selling game on PS5, the expectations are crazy.

don't expect much couse probably we just get gt sport with slightly updated graphics, dynamic daytime, more content, better singleplayer and probably same physics and penalty system

 

[MrRaahzeel]

All i ask is to feel the same vibes and hype that i had when GT5 was released

 

[oneloops]

Exactly my point, PD haven't, but you and NickXP were giving it as a reason. Hence it is just a theory, not a fact. Also, you're the one who keeps using the excuse word over and over, not me. I said reasons OR excuses. I didn't say everything was an excuse. See that struggling to read part again? There is no "fake conclusions".



What am I manipulating? You said you thought it could come out in 2020, we all told you it wouldn't under any circumstances.



They are called quotation marks.



..sure, and the countless other studios that have put out multiple games. It's a pretty simple statement, not an abhorrent attack on PD.

So as your conclusions, PD can launch 5 games in a year and on two generations being completely new game in the modern generation... and the rest are excuses.

That's the level of your conclusions, if PD doesn't say explicitly something only your conclusions are valid...

You insist adding "excuses" after the word "reasons" because you see it more like excuses than reasons, the context of your opinions shows clearly that, everybody can see it.

When something is posible there is a/some posibilities, gambling on GT7 launch date as you and others did is not the same than being right.

As all your other literal interpretations and rigid conclusions, quotation marks are not only for quotes :

"We use quotation marks with direct quotes, with titles of certain works, to imply alternate meanings, and to write words as words."

You are wrong again and again.

 

[Samus]

So as your conclusions, PD can launch 5 games in a year and on two generations being completely new game in the modern generation... and the rest are excuses.

If that is the conclusion you've come to then clearly this is pointless. I mean, seriously, WTF does that even mean.

 

[oneloops]

If that is the conclusion you've come to then clearly this is pointless. I mean, seriously, WTF does that even mean.

That means exactly what is explained just behind. Read a little and open your mind more than literal and rigid conclusions.

 

[ScottPuss20]

The way I see it is this: PD were going to release GT5 in 2008 but several setbacks prevented that from happening, so the game released in 2010. The development of GT5 was unlike the typical cycle, and their ambitious targets didn't really help matters at all IMO. The reasoning behind the delay wasn't just to add all the necessary features, but refine the game as well. I am of the belief that if GT5's development was shorter, GT6 would've been released earlier and we'd have 2 PS4 games.

 

[Lee x sensai]

You guy forgetting PD working on other GT game like GT-PSP for the time being back in 2009, they already working on another game before the release of GT5. It like two game during ps3 era. If you included other call game call HD concepts and Prologue during ps3 era, It like 3 game they release.

 

[Faultier]

Prologue was just a Prologue - call it a big Demo
I would not all this a whole game.

GT HD was never released, wasn´t it?

But yes I give you the point for GT mobile.

Still - Polyphony is and was never known for being super quick and reliable.

Also:

The Fact we see a new car for GT Sport tells me that GT7 really won´t make it first half of 2021 but we will see

 

[Zlork]

The Fact we see a new car for GT Sport tells me that GT7 really won´t make it first half of 2021 but we will see

New car.... will be also in GT7.

 

[Dave A]

The Fact we see a new car for GT Sport tells me that GT7 really won´t make it first half of 2021 but we will see

I think the new car has much more to do with a deal with Toyota/GR than the development of GT7.

 

[05XR8]

I think the new car has much more to do with a deal with Toyota/GR than the development of GT7.

Definitely this, the real car is soon to be delivered to customers. We got the Supra before customers could drive theirs.

Seriously, there's just no rhyme or reason to have released the GR Yaris for PS4. Could have easily waited til PS5, but here we are.

 

[Faultier]

I think the new car has much more to do with a deal with Toyota/GR than the development of GT7.

yap, its surely a marketing deal.
Its free so I take it.

 

[Cayit]

I think Mid 2021 release sounds right...
They can update it every month to add more cars and other stuff.
I guess if they release it in Mid.2021 the Game will be finished up to 70% or so...

 

[wicken]

Playstation latest ad now confirms it.

 

[NickXP]

Playstation latest ad now confirms it.

Wow, how did you get the link? This video is unlisted

 

[wicken]

Wow, how did you get the link? This video is unlisted

I found it in a gamesindustry article published today - https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...meplay-ad-as-part-of-memorable-launch-efforts