GT6 Sales Discussion

mr_serious
No it isn't.

In most sports, racing included, the true competition is an internal thing. This is the reason people are able to spend hours hot lapping in this game. They are challenging themselves, they are their own competition.

When racing in a field of competition, the ideal is to be challenged so that you push the boundaries of your own performance that little bit further. That is the spirit of competition. In the real world every racer out there started from the back, and developed their skills from there.
They try their hardest in every race to beat the competition.

In GT if you try your hardest on the track with equal equipment, you are pretty much garuanteed a win. Now in a game as opposed to the real world, there's nothing wrong with someone just wanting to play & be assured of victory. However I don't understand PD's evident opposition to using a technique that is 20-30 years old - a difficulty slider. Thus allowing the, "I just want to win & acquire stuff as fast as possible" as well as the "I want to have to struggle for every podium, let alone victory, against a convincing AI, that makes me think like a racer, makes me choose the right overtaking spot, makes me think about every milligram of pressure I put on the throttle or brake." crowd

I would prefer a racing game in which it takes me weeks of practice to achieve a 1st place against convincing AI. Than one where it takes me hours to determine just how much I have to cripple myself in order to make it feel a bit like a race, even though I start at the back of a train of cars 20s behind the pole sitter.

Just my opinion of course.



I wish I could like this 100 times. It's so obvious, I just don't understand how people can't see the point being made!
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Hahaha... you guys don't know jack shizim about Motorsports.. If a car is superior and or dominating the field they handicap it for the remaining of the season to be more competitive, they don' make the rest of the field faster. They make the fast cars slower. This is practiced in gt3, F1 and super gt * more predominately in gt500* and countless others . I can, A make the whole field faster, or B make my car slower to race with the field. Then again in real life pack racing only occurs in the first few laps.. and nascar! Doing what we do in GT5 would be a very incredible feat in real life, if they gave us the best Damn AI ever , We would be LUCKY to finish six spots above our original position.
 
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I had a lot of fun reading all the posts on this thread.
A lot more fun that I would have with GT6 if I had buy that game.

However, I did not. And for Xmas, I will not be collecting cars, but playing guitar with Rocksmith.

All is well.
 
I don't think they're disastrous.

GT5 sales were strong because the hype surrounding it was enormous (built up by a 5 year development time and a pretty awesome retail demo). GT6 launched the same year it was announced and it's been (still being) overshadowed by the launch of next-gen consoles.

For what it's worth, I think GT6 is a much more enjoyable experience than GT5. They didn't fix everything, as many on this thread have pointed out but I think GT6's driving experience and track selection is the best in the series. And it'll only improve with upcoming updates.
 
well sale numbers was actually not worrying, GT will always be bestsellers and get nice money...what was actually worrying was that the franchise's review scores are decreasing!
what's more, currently GT6(80.9%) is scoring lower than GT5(84.3%) 0_o
 
Ginoong Multo
well sale numbers was actually not worrying, GT will always be bestsellers and get nice money...what was actually worrying was that the franchise's review scores are decreasing!
what's more, currently GT6(80.9%) is scoring lower than GT5(84.3%) 0_o
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If you play video games, it becomes quite obviates the only way a game ever gets a review bump is if the first game was mediocre and the second was superior. Or if the second game shatters all expectations* ala uncharted two* Look at little big planet two.. it makes the first one look like a average game yet metacritic has it under one..
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
So have I that doesn't change the behavior (which is the issue) of what the AI do, that a coding issue. What PP or car I pick doesn't fix a coding issue. Many people have been doing this... Also if you know it doesn't change anything from making the cars faster then why would you mention that you handicap yourself...since going the opposite as you've done and others is also the same difference.
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SlipZtrEm
The operative word, of course, is "change". Not "improve". The bots will now turn into grandmas if you're still way behind coming into the final laps; I've watched them add a solid 10 seconds to their lap times so that I could win. And yep, that was with a massive self-handicap (a very-lightly tuned Demio versus an Integra Type R). I just did the Rainmasters race at Spa and found two hilarious new AI behaviours; I exited Eau Rouge intentionally slowly and saw three AI close the gap on the straight afterwards, only to all cut the throttle when they got near me to avoid passing. A few turns later, I was back to a 2 second lead, and stuck my Viper in 6th to cruise through turns, braking early and only using part throttle. It took them until the back straight to catch up, and I needed to nearly leave the track to get one to pass.
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Firstly, no one is content that the bot behavior is perfect that I'm aware of. I'm as unhappy with their overall behavior in turns and when you get a substantial lead as the next GT fan, and am suspicious that they slam on the brakes like they have since GT1. But I believe in giving credit where credit is due, and I've enjoyed watching moments of contests between the bots in replays. As I posted before, while these would happen occasionally in GT5, they do it routinely in GT6. I also gravitate to the lower HP cars like the 240SX, S2000 and Supra, where the bot foibles are less drastic and more humanlike. I know I'm one of those oddballs that likes the powerband 250hp and below, but that's diversity for ya.

Perhaps you'd like to argue with the board owner, Jordan.
Once the races started, though, it was immediately clear that there have been significant changes to the artificial intelligence of the other drivers, as confirmed by U.S. Gran Turismo producer Taku Imasaki.

They no longer drive as “ducks-in-a-row”, as we saw in almost every race in GT5. They were actually racing with each other, going two – and once nearly three – wide into corners. When challenged with a pass, they didn’t put up too much of a fight, but some of them (not all drivers exhibited this behavior) actually fought back to pass me again, despite no major mistakes of my own.

This gave the racing a different and more challenging feel. I felt like I would need to push and drive defensively if I wanted to get ahead and win.

...Of course, the artificial intelligence is still not perfect (and likely never will be), and many will continue to criticize the other drivers when they bump into you while holding their line through a corner. However, it’s a significant step forward for the series in an area which has rightly bothered many fans for years.
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This has been my experience. I would also say that ThreeFrogmanlego and Watermellonpunch have responded to the subject as well as could be, so I think I'll leave it at that.

The sounds aren't good they're the same ones we've had for a long time and that is why PD are working to update them as they've said.
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Well, argue with Jordan then.
I also noticed a slightly more gritty engine sound than what I have heard in previous builds. A Sony representative confirmed that several of the cars were equipped with updated audio. Although I’m not sure if I played with one of these cars, I could sense something had changed. For those optimistic audiophiles out there, don’t get too carried away by my comments – the game still sounds much the same – but you should take comfort in knowing that it was better.
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There is even a thread which popped up titled, Sound may not be as bad as we think! So, make of all this what you will. Complain away, I'm with everyone wanting Gran Turismo to be improved. But don't shoot yourself in the foot by exaggerating how bad things still are or haven't changed at all.
 
Tenacious D
Firstly, no one is content that the bot behavior is perfect that I'm aware of. I'm as unhappy with their overall behavior in turns and when you get a substantial lead as the next GT fan, and am suspicious that they slam on the brakes like they have since GT1. But I believe in giving credit where credit is due, and I've enjoyed watching moments of contests between the bots in replays. As I posted before, while these would happen occasionally in GT5, they do it routinely in GT6. I also gravitate to the lower HP cars like the 240SX, S2000 and Supra, where the bot foibles are less drastic and more humanlike. I know I'm one of those oddballs that likes the powerband 250hp and below, but that's diversity for ya.

Perhaps you'd like to argue with the board owner, Jordan.


This has been my experience. I would also say that ThreeFrogmanlego and Watermellonpunch have responded to the subject as well as could be, so I think I'll leave it at that.
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Sure if I disagree with Jordan I'll argue the topic, nice fear tactic especially when using on another mod that hasn't ever succumb to your emotion based argument. This is a new low, and a deflection to, Jordan never gave insight that was absolute, there were just over zealous fans that took it as gospel and he told people to take it with a grain of salt since it wasn't a long massive testing. No one is questioning your diversity, the only questioning is many of us have consistently experienced poor AI that is the issue, and it doesn't matter if we run PP like you or to the max.


Well, argue with Jordan then.
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Not sure for the second one of these... Jordan said it seemed slightly better, but he may have been hyping it (paraphrasing here) and to also not take it as an absolute. Obviously you pointing us in his direction as if he is the all knowing or source of absolute fact isn't right, he gave us a disclaimer.

There is even a thread which popped up titled, Sound may not be as bad as we think! So, make of all this what you will. Complain away, I'm with everyone wanting Gran Turismo to be improved. But don't shoot yourself in the foot by exaggerating how bad things still are or haven't changed at all.
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Yes there are alot of threads, some weirdo on the opposing side of yours could argue that PD should be sued due to the the Class action lawsuit thread that popped up. What does a thread matter? There are people with knowledge in Audio that have said the sample need work and have given great technical detail and facts to why, not emotion or love or hate, but impartial facts.

Oh and now I'm exaggerating even though I agreed with half of what was improved? Why not read what people write, just because the don't unanimously agree do you need to have this tantrum act. Or better yet the emotional guilt trip you act out "well go ahead and say what you will and do what ever :grumpy:"
 
I think the point that is being lost in this thread is that if you have to argue and pick apart the details of this game to justify how much "better" it is than the previous game, it hasn't improved enough to be accepted as a full step forward.

I overgeneralized my statement about the car sounds. BUT, let's say you took a random sample of 5 cars available in both GT5/6 and played them for 1000 random people on the street. No one can honestly tell me that those 1000 people would say there is a big difference. Not only between games, but between the different cars themselves. I've played GT5 for hundreds hours. I turn all of the music off for the entire game because I feel it's pointless and distracts me. No one is going to convince me that my ears are lying to me and the cars don't all have an overall and similar "vacuumy" sound to them, no matter how hard you stomp your feet and insist otherwise. The whole point of my comment was that if all of the cars are going to continue to sound this similar and so similar to GT5 why couldn't they just pick a completely different sample. It's not like they didn't have enough time to change the coding for that :rolleyes:.

I was in high school when GT1 came out and I've been playing the GT series since day one. Its not like I got into it when GT3/4 came out and then played backwards after I finished the current game. The game certainly has evolved but after 15 straight years and hundreds of dollars in cold hard cash you start to get tired of the same old stuff and small steps of improvement between one version to the next. I am a fan of the GT series, I will continue to play all of them and I will continue to give criticism where it's due.

I'll say it again. If it has to be dissected and picked apart this hard, it's not that new and exciting

One more thing I forgot to point out. Last night's update that included log in bonuses proves one of two things to me. It's either an admission that they released the game half baked, or they are folding to the outcries of having to grind. I won't get into the micro-transaction debate but I haven't run into anyone outside of this site that hasn't bitched about the damn grind. I see no logical reason the log in bonus wouldn't have been included on the release day if they intended it to be a standard feature of the game. There is simply no reason that feature wouldn't have been ready on launch day other than it being released far from finished.
 
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LMSCorvetteGT2
Yes there are alot of threads, some weirdo on the opposing side of yours could argue that PD should be sued due to the the Class action lawsuit thread that popped up. What does a thread matter? There are people with knowledge in Audio that have said the sample need work and have given great technical detail and facts to why, not emotion or love or hate, but impartial facts.

Oh and now I'm exaggerating even though I agreed with half of what was improved? Why not read what people write, just because the don't unanimously agree do you need to have this tantrum act. Or better yet the emotional guilt trip you act out "well go ahead and say what you will and do what ever :grumpy:"
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Dude. Seriously. Did you or did you not post this?

LMSCorvetteGT2
The sounds aren't good they're the same ones we've had for a long time and that is why PD are working to update them as they've said.
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;)

You're also ignoring a few people with knowledge in Audio who have said that the sounds have been making progress, and not all of them are "the same ones we've had for a long time."

Anyhow, I won't hammer on you anymore about this, I'll just pass on by your posts because they're purposefully structured to garner a response from a certain developer. And seeing as GT6 is a few steps up the ladder towards a full fledged 21st Century next gen racer, maybe everyone's complaining will give us that on PS4.
 
Tenacious D
Dude. Seriously. Did you or did you not post this?
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Yeah I did post it and what does it have to do with me not being one of the extremist you've labeled. Just beceause me, @Imari, @Tornado, @SlipZtrEm, or @CorvetteConquer and many others have said things about GT as a critique that you don't like doesn't mean we can't be pleased. We agree some things have been improved and others haven't but I have not seen a single one of them say it is exactly like GT5 or unchanged. If we have I will ask you to provide proof of it or retract such an inane statement as you did in a past post.

You're also ignoring a few people with knowledge in Audio who have said that the sounds have been making progress, and not all of them are "the same ones we've had for a long time."
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I never said they were all bad, but great job taking my words out of context, the bulk of them need fixing, and if you paid attention, on all the GT6 threads that talk about the junior RB car, I've praised the sound. So....

Anyhow, I won't hammer on you anymore about this, I'll just pass on by your posts because they're purposefully structured to garner a response from a certain developer. And seeing as GT6 is a few steps up the ladder towards a full fledged 21st Century next gen racer, maybe everyone's complaining will give us that on PS4.
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So because my post are on tact and actually representing the game in a more objective manner than yours you're just going to pretend that it's full of hate and nothing more. Classic rebuttal from you, and the whole idea that if we don't fully agree or at least do so 90% of the way we obviously want to see GT fail, to be honest the fans that are actually trying to push GT series to be what it can be and once was is probably better in the long run than the people that lose their marbles and sheer idea of a new game being released from PD with out any further info.

Cosbuster
Is this some sort of intimidation tactic?
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Yeah it obviously is, like if us arguing against the owner of this site in an intellectual manner is grounds for being banned. Which would obviously make putting forth his cause an easier daily task.
 
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Tenacious D
It's called defense against "You're a liar - making stuff up - are stoopids." ;)
And LMS, you have an awesome day, guy. And cut back on the sugar.
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You might wanna cut back on the grandiose dreams and the petty retorts that you call a rebuke. Not sure what sugar has to do with me responding to you, but you also have a good day.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
You might wanna cut back on the grandiose dreams and the petty retorts that you call a rebuke. Not sure what sugar has to do with me responding to you, but you also have a good day.
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That reminds me, I haven't watched Hot Fuzz in a while.
 
Those who think GT5 was in any way a failure in the gaming world are not aware of the plethora of major releases that have failed.

For an idea, Diablo 3 is a bigger failure than GT5 was.

GT6 sales are not as good because everyone has bought the new consoles and the racing games on them. I'm not interested in either console at the moment so I picked up GT6. If I was, I would not have picked it up.
 
Tenacious D
But I believe in giving credit where credit is due, and I've enjoyed watching moments of contests between the bots in replays. As I posted before, while these would happen occasionally in GT5, they do it routinely in GT6.
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Bots bumping into each other and battling for position means nothing to me in a race, if they're still interacting with me as poorly as ever. While I'm glad you can derive pleasure from watching replays of that, I really shouldn't have to explain how that isn't remotely the same thing.

I also gravitate to the lower HP cars like the 240SX, S2000 and Supra, where the bot foibles are less drastic and more humanlike. I know I'm one of those oddballs that likes the powerband 250hp and below, but that's diversity for ya.
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I like the suggestion that horsepower somehow plays a major part in the AI behaviour. I almost like it as much as you ignoring that I referenced a race in a sub-150hp car and one with 600+.

Perhaps you'd like to argue with the board owner, Jordan.
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Well, argue with Jordan then.
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What's your approach here? Are you honestly expecting to stone-wall a conversation on the basis that nobody will dare say anything that isn't in line with Jordan's experiences? I mean, that's even overlooking the fact that...
  • He didn't get a whole lot of time with the game at the pre-release event. Certainly not as much as players have had to pick up on AI traits in the two weeks since release.
  • It was a pre-release version of the game, and not running career mode races.
  • While Jordan was never specific about which race he dealt with this new AI (and it very well could've been all of them), this video was all sorts of exciting because of that FTO battle near the end. At a PP rating of 552 versus the Scirocco's 477, I'd expect it to be able to harass even a fast driver like Jordan, and sadly, I've yet to see that sort of dogged commitment in any career race in the retail copy. You know what I have seen, though (care of daan: )


Tenacious D
It's called defense against "You're a liar - making stuff up - are stoopids." ;)
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This explains so much of why you post the way you do; because you seem to think people disagreeing with you is the equivalent of name-calling. Try again.

To tie this all back to sales (and since VGChartz is apparently a trusted outlet when convenient); CoD's latest installment's sales are "troubling", at a roughly 20% gap between last year's model and this one. GT6 hasn't sold as well as GT5 did so far (and I don't think many will disagree when I say that, to a small amount, that was expected), but I'd like to see what sort of numbers come from PD over VGC. The game launched without many features - some of which were even present in GT5 - and I can't imagine "some future update will bring (B-Spec/Course Maker/Online Leagues/Online Groups)... eventually" is a particularly convincing selling point to the casuals that would make up the bulk of sales.
 
This is a flawed franchise that has failed to keep up with other franchises but it still has massive potential that could be realized if PD actually knew what their client base wanted. Not the fan boys who buy anything with a GT label on it, but the long-term fans of the series who play a variety of titles to provide balanced, rational critiques of the GT franchise.

Until the truly educated can provide an opinion that is not lost due to the fan boy noise, then maybe they could utilize their talents to create e truly epic racing game.
 
SlipZtrEm
What's your approach here? Are you honestly expecting to stone-wall a conversation on the basis that nobody will dare say anything that isn't in line with Jordan's experiences? I mean, that's even overlooking the fact that...
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I fully expect you to completely miss the point of my posts, and you never fail to disappoint. My points:
  • Those who say the sounds haven't changed are incorrect.
  • Those who say the bot A.I. haven't changed are incorrect.
Hopefully this helps. ;)
 
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Tenacious D
I fully expect you to completely miss the point of my posts, and you never fail to disappoint. My points:
  • Those who say the sounds haven't changed are incorrect.
  • Those who say the bot A.I. haven't changed are incorrect.
Hopefully this helps. ;)
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They have changed. I don't think anyone is denying it.

Are they better? It's pretty debatable. Depending on your requirements, you could easily come to the conclusion that they wee better or worse.
 
Tenacious D
I fully expect you to completely miss the point of my posts, and you never fail to disappoint. My points:
  • Those who say the sounds haven't changed are incorrect.
  • Those who say the bot A.I. haven't changed are incorrect.
Hopefully this helps. ;)
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What @Imari said, but to the degree you are saying sounds have changed is not true. If it was then PD wouldn't be working to change them which is obvious from the Junior car. Also I love how you say he missed the point yet you don't demonstrate how or deduce where he went wrong, then again you're not very good at this and why you didn't give up years ago and band with others like you have before to cram you ideas down the communities throat is beyond me.

Credge
Those who think GT5 was in any way a failure in the gaming world are not aware of the plethora of major releases that have failed.

For an idea, Diablo 3 is a bigger failure than GT5 was.

GT6 sales are not as good because everyone has bought the new consoles and the racing games on them. I'm not interested in either console at the moment so I picked up GT6. If I was, I would not have picked it up.
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In what sense really? They are even the same type of game. Also just because you think something is a bigger flop that GT5 doesn't mean it still wasn't a flop. GT5 was a flop in respect to other GT games and competition.

Also people have bought new consoles but PS4 doesn't have a major racing game on it, unless you're claiming everyone went off and bought an XB1 because of racing. That isn't the case most players are casual racers and not hardcore sim racers like some of us, so they're probably playing other systems for the many other games, not racing only. Also many people like myself and others haven't bought the game because of how bad GT5 was and waiting to see if it gets better.
 
Imari
They have changed. I don't think anyone is denying it.

Are they better? It's pretty debatable. Depending on your requirements, you could easily come to the conclusion that they wee better or worse.
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Have any examples which are worse?
 
I think "worse" isn't that hard to quantify, guys. Get serious. Or you could just give yourselves net cookies all night. ;)
 

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