GT6 Sales Discussion

[bodger]

I don't think anybody wants PD to fail to the point that they have to close up shop. Its just very likely that they've become very proud and weren't willing to listen to any criticism because their games always sold very well.

From now on when somebody asks about something like the damage I doubt we'll hear "We want you to focus on the beauty of the cars". That arrogant attitude will likely be gone now, and its for the better. PDs tone has been changing recently though. We've gone from Kaz saying the sounds were too real to now him finally acknowledging that they need to be improved.

Sometimes its good for people to be humbled. Even Sony had to get humbled after the PS3 fiasco. The result? They learned from their mistakes and we got the PS4, perhaps the best console ever made. Can GT6's failure result in the best Gran Turismo ever made? Its quite possible. With Project Cars pushing them as well, I expect GT7 to make huge strides in key areas.

For me, theres several reasons why GT6 is selling poorly compared to previous GT titles.

- Its the 2nd game on the same console. The 2nd GT game on the same console has always sold around 20% less then the first. This is do to the fact many people are happy with the first game and aren't too interested or excited about buying the next title.

- The PS4 launch. Many people are done and finished with last gen. A lot of hardcore early PS4 adopters could not wait for the 7 year PS3 generation to come to an end. Yet Sony wants people to keep firing up their PS3s for another year playing a visually sloppy game (even by PS3 standards
) in GT6? Not going to happen for most PS4 owners. So these people skipped on GT6.

- GT5 was the worst GT game yet. There were loads of people on my PSN and GTP friends list that were hyped for GT5. They were active on these boards leading up to its launch and we had a lot of great battles in GT5P. But within weeks after GT5's launch they simply disappeared. They didn't like the game, of course. I haven't seen them on this forum since. If I were to guess, I'd say about 3/4 of my 70 or so friends on GTP haven't logged on in at least a year. The vast majority of them were friends I made in the GT5P era. But GT5 was so bad it made them go away for good it seems.

PD spending all that time updating GT5 was a mistake IMO. Most people, like myself, stopped playing after a few weeks. I had sold the game on ebay way before the Spec 2 update. GT5 was never going to be properly fixed through updates. The real solution was to release GT6 in a timely fashion, perhaps 2 years after GT5. But they couldn't do that because they spent so much time fixing GT5, a hopelessly broken product.

- What little advertising there was for GT6 was tremendously poor. It shocks me how dumbed down GT6 is for the casual masses, yet they somehow thought putting the LCC Rocket on all the advertisements was going to somehow sell the game to the casual masses. Do they actually think the casual masses know what the LCC Rocket is or even care?

See Turn 10's advertising of Forza 5 on how to attract the casual masses. Almost every clip features supercars racing eachother along with big collisions and flipping cars. Yet look at GT6's advertisements and you see a 1642 Hudson Hornet that George Washington raced in his spare time. Or some old Alpine that only hardcore gearheads care about. Seriously, PD is clueless. They built the mechanics of the game around the casuals, yet they advertised it for the most hardcore petrol heads.

And don't get me started on the cover. That worked 15 years ago, but it doesn't work today. Like many things PD does, its terribly dated and stuck in the 90s.

- The final reason GT6's sales are lower is because its just not a very good game. Its averaging about a 81 on metacritic right now. Only a game with mass casual appeal like Call of Duty can score that low and yet still sell millions. But even CODs sales are dropping but thats another story. Gran Turismo hasn't produced a good game in years and it will sell like a mediocre game as long as it continues to be a mediocre game. The days of selling 10 million units are gone, vanished, never to be recovered, unless of course PD swallows a very large humble pill, such as Sony did when they abandoned the CELL processor, and cleaned house (Kutaragi).

The rocket was on all the advertising? Was this in the US? In the UK I don't think it featured at all.

I assume, you haven't bought the game (like you said you wouldn't) so I'm not sure of your qualification for an opinion on whether it is a good game or not.

Personally, after having owned and played it over the last month, it's the most fun, and the mostly intensely I have have played any in the series, and I go all the way back to the 1997 Japanese release. I don't care one bit about the sales figures, which are pretty respectable anyway.

 

[mr_serious]

I know it would be the same UI as what we have now. The improvements would be (assumed) in frame rate issues, perhaps AI capabilities, maybe the sound engine is ready, but that's a stretch. I'd be fine with the shortcomings of the PS3 being done away with.

The only thing the PS4 would address is the framerate issues. The crap AI has nothing at all to do with the PS3 platform. There are many examples of better AI on PS3 - (as well as PS2, PS1, old 486 PCs etc...)

The only thing that will improve the AI is throwing out the current AI code completely & starting over from scratch. This is not a trivial task.

As for the sounds, Kaz said they were waiting for a breakthrough in their sound processing method - that doesn't sound like it will be magically fixed by the PS4 either.

It is PD's algorithms and design choices which are at fault here. What they really need is fresh blood.

 

[Imari]

Just off the top of my head: Last of Us, GTA 5 (which IIRC cost 125 million $ to make and 125 million $ in marketing), PS4, XBONE... feel free to add to the list.

And then somebody seriously expects a car sim game, which does NOT feature F1, to outsell above mentioned titles when next gen consoles went on sale and there are more triple A titles one can shake a stick at? A game which actually requires some skill and has a learning curve? Which doesn't allow you to pilot a Veyron round the Ring in 6:12 after 2 hours of gameplay?

Face it - we're the Anoraks, the car nerds, the type of "gamers" that get a mild smile from the legions of Battlefield and CoD players or hordes of housewives with their Wii fit workout nonsense.

If anyone didn't buy GT6 after GT5 it's because GT isn't Burnout or NFS. Or iracing for 10% the cost but with better graphics and physics.

But most of all - GT6 went #1 in Germany. We don't know much, but we know cars. Go figure who knows best what a good car game is

Ah, so now GT is a niche game and that's why it doesn't sell much?

Does anyone else remember when GT sold better than nearly anything else out there? On Playstation it was only matched by FF7. On PS2 only by GTA games. Why is it that on PS3 it's suddenly niche?

Historically it has outsold every other console racing game, and very nearly every other console game. That's not niche. That's the definition of mainstream.

 

[jamesst99]

I don't think anybody wants PD to fail to the point that they have to close up shop. Its just very likely that they've become very proud and weren't willing to listen to any criticism because their games always sold very well.

From now on when somebody asks about something like the damage I doubt we'll hear "We want you to focus on the beauty of the cars". That arrogant attitude will likely be gone now, and its for the better. PDs tone has been changing recently though. We've gone from Kaz saying the sounds were too real to now him finally acknowledging that they need to be improved.

Sometimes its good for people to be humbled. Even Sony had to get humbled after the PS3 fiasco. The result? They learned from their mistakes and we got the PS4, perhaps the best console ever made. Can GT6's failure result in the best Gran Turismo ever made? Its quite possible. With Project Cars pushing them as well, I expect GT7 to make huge strides in key areas.

For me, theres several reasons why GT6 is selling poorly compared to previous GT titles.

- Its the 2nd game on the same console. The 2nd GT game on the same console has always sold around 20% less then the first. This is do to the fact many people are happy with the first game and aren't too interested or excited about buying the next title.

- The PS4 launch. Many people are done and finished with last gen. A lot of hardcore early PS4 adopters could not wait for the 7 year PS3 generation to come to an end. Yet Sony wants people to keep firing up their PS3s for another year playing a visually sloppy game (even by PS3 standards
) in GT6? Not going to happen for most PS4 owners. So these people skipped on GT6.

- GT5 was the worst GT game yet. There were loads of people on my PSN and GTP friends list that were hyped for GT5. They were active on these boards leading up to its launch and we had a lot of great battles in GT5P. But within weeks after GT5's launch they simply disappeared. They didn't like the game, of course. I haven't seen them on this forum since. If I were to guess, I'd say about 3/4 of my 70 or so friends on GTP haven't logged on in at least a year. The vast majority of them were friends I made in the GT5P era. But GT5 was so bad it made them go away for good it seems.

PD spending all that time updating GT5 was a mistake IMO. Most people, like myself, stopped playing after a few weeks. I had sold the game on ebay way before the Spec 2 update. GT5 was never going to be properly fixed through updates. The real solution was to release GT6 in a timely fashion, perhaps 2 years after GT5. But they couldn't do that because they spent so much time fixing GT5, a hopelessly broken product.

- What little advertising there was for GT6 was tremendously poor. It shocks me how dumbed down GT6 is for the casual masses, yet they somehow thought putting the LCC Rocket on all the advertisements was going to somehow sell the game to the casual masses. Do they actually think the casual masses know what the LCC Rocket is or even care?

See Turn 10's advertising of Forza 5 on how to attract the casual masses. Almost every clip features supercars racing eachother along with big collisions and flipping cars. Yet look at GT6's advertisements and you see a 1642 Hudson Hornet that George Washington raced in his spare time. Or some old Alpine that only hardcore gearheads care about. Seriously, PD is clueless. They built the mechanics of the game around the casuals, yet they advertised it for the most hardcore petrol heads.

And don't get me started on the cover. That worked 15 years ago, but it doesn't work today. Like many things PD does, its terribly dated and stuck in the 90s.

- The final reason GT6's sales are lower is because its just not a very good game. Its averaging about a 81 on metacritic right now. Only a game with mass casual appeal like Call of Duty can score that low and yet still sell millions. But even CODs sales are dropping but thats another story. Gran Turismo hasn't produced a good game in years and it will sell like a mediocre game as long as it continues to be a mediocre game. The days of selling 10 million units are gone, vanished, never to be recovered, unless of course PD swallows a very large humble pill, such as Sony did when they abandoned the CELL processor, and cleaned house (Kutaragi).

I thank god for gt5, Its the game that made me buy a pc, and real race sims!

 

[mr_serious]

I thank god for gt5, Its the game that made me buy a pc, and real race sims!

GT5 is the game that made me try some other console racers I would never have thought of even trying, and finally escaping the dullness of GT's AI. I'm not going to be getting a PS4 for a long time so new racing games are going to be PC (Project CARS & Asseto Corsa probably) .

Thanks Kaz!

 

[BlueShift]

The difference in previous games is that AI back in the days were programmed to follow each others like a train.
They weren't really aware of the player, therefore they didn't give up position easily like GT5 and 6.

Yeah because now, they are totally aware of the player ?
Try to enter any onemake race, so You passing an ai Is slow : for the ai, the player doesn't exist in a curve, either at braking and accel !
Many times you want to pass them cleanly, you do this just in time then a NOSsed snail (because it's glued to the road) tries to make yourself spining !


THIS IS NOT FAIR. You can't make them spin like they do. And they do make You spin because because they are snails glued to the road.

 

[Soundtrack]

Ah, so now GT is a niche game and that's why it doesn't sell much?

Does anyone else remember when GT sold better than nearly anything else out there? On Playstation it was only matched by FF7. On PS2 only by GTA games. Why is it that on PS3 it's suddenly niche?

Historically it has outsold every other console racing game, and very nearly every other console game. That's not niche. That's the definition of mainstream.

Despite being the weak link GT5 sold 10millions+ on PS3. Hardly a niche or a fail (from a commercial perspective). At this present time GT6 has been on sale for 24 days counting sundays (this is december after all) and holidays ( yes PSN stores never closes). However, unless I’m mistaken, these “scarring” sale figures presented here do not take into account digital distribution neither.

For sure no GT game has ever released so late in a console cycle (they have been arguably considered as being system sellers), and we have still little knowledge on how this will impact Polyphony’s business. Still, considering the actual state of economy, and with a quite predictable console price drop, I do believe some are burying both the game and platform a little hastily.

You may (erroneously) consider I’m an evangelist wearing pink glasses, but reading this forums I’m tempted to consider many pessimists should remove their distortion glasses in the first place. This thread only started 3 days after release... Isn’t it a bit to early to write History?

 

[MXH]

However, unless I’m mistaken, these “scarring” sale figures presented here do not take into account digital distribution neither.

That's correct, they don't. However, people are kidding themselves if they believe that digital sales would actually make much of a difference. I'm sure sales figures would've been revealed by now if it did as good as, let's say, over 100k or more.

 

[Imari]

Despite being the weak link GT5 sold 10millions+ on PS3. Hardly a niche...

Er, that's exactly the point I was making.

 

[jimipitbull]

Despite being the weak link GT5 sold 10millions+ on PS3. Hardly a niche or a fail (from a commercial perspective). At this present time GT6 has been on sale for 24 days counting sundays (this is december after all) and holidays ( yes PSN stores never closes). However, unless I’m mistaken, these “scarring” sale figures presented here do not take into account digital distribution neither.

For sure no GT game has ever released so late in a console cycle (they have been arguably considered as being system sellers), and we have still little knowledge on how this will impact Polyphony’s business. Still, considering the actual state of economy, and with a quite predictable console price drop, I do believe some are burying both the game and platform a little hastily.

You may (erroneously) consider I’m an evangelist wearing pink glasses, but reading this forums I’m tempted to consider many pessimists should remove their distortion glasses in the first place. This thread only started 3 days after release... Isn’t it a bit to early to write History?

These doomsdayers have shown very little regard for common sense, let alone evidence.

 

[Soundtrack]

Er, that's exactly the point I was making.

Oops! Didn't read it like that! Need a pair of glass apparently...

 

[HKS racer]

Yeah because now, they are totally aware of the player ?
Try to enter any onemake race, so You passing an ai Is slow : for the ai, the player doesn't exist in a curve, either at braking and accel !
Many times you want to pass them cleanly, you do this just in time then a NOSsed snail (because it's glued to the road) tries to make yourself spining !


THIS IS NOT FAIR. You can't make them spin like they do. And they do make You spin because because they are snails glued to the road.

I rarely had problems with AI spinning me, they are way too much slower to remotely attempt a pit manouver. I have to slow down on purpose exiting a long turn to see that thing happening. Sometimes they are aware sometimes not. Basically they are still mere obstacles on the road, with the difference now they are much slower than GT1,2,3,4.

 

[Soundtrack]

That's correct, they don't. However, people are kidding themselves if they believe that digital sales would actually make much of a difference. I'm sure sales figures would've been revealed by now if it did as good as, let's say, over 100k or more.

Digital over Physical has been growing at constant rate, however IOS and Android devices do interfere in the statistics, so until PD/Sony publishes their numbers, there is little to no way to know.

 

[NixxxoN]

Today there are more decent/good driving/racing games than several years ago, it means games in general will sell less.

 

[Earth]

Digital over Physical has been growing at constant rate, however IOS and Android devices do interfere in the statistics, so until PD/Sony publishes their numbers, there is little to no way to know.

Even if Digital added 300,000 units to the sales (unlikely), the numbers are still very low, and Im sure Sony considers them disastrous. Unless google fiber magically adds millions of households in the next 5 years digital console games will not take off. Downloading a 40GB PS4 game is not a fun experience. Believe me I know. My ISP let me know I went over my 250GB bandwidth limit too. Until google fiber speeds and bandwidth become mainstream...digital can wait.

Today there are more decent/good driving/racing games than several years ago, it means games in general will sell less.

It also means mediocre driving games will be exposed by their competitors and will suffer as a result. This is great for the consumer.

 

[MXH]

Digital over Physical has been growing at constant rate, however IOS and Android devices do interfere in the statistics, so until PD/Sony publishes their numbers, there is little to no way to know.

That is also correct, but don't hold your breath. I'll be surprised if GT6 makes it into the December Playstation Store charts at all. Unfortunately they don't release sales figures.

 

[Soundtrack]

Even if Digital added 300,000 units to the sales (unlikely), the numbers are still very low, and Im sure Sony considers them disastrous. Unless google fiber magically adds millions of households in the next 5 years digital console games will not take off. Downloading a 40GB PS4 game is not a fun experience. Believe me I know. My ISP let me know I went over my 250GB bandwidth limit too. Until google fiber speeds and bandwidth become mainstream...digital can wait.

I do remember Dial-up and ISDN days where transferring a few megabytes was considered daunting. I’m in no way favored by my ISP but FTP’s are ok, bandwidth limits non existent and background downloads a no concern. However, I’m still pretty much attached to physical products. The following generation however...

It also means mediocre other driving games will be exposed by their competitors and will suffer as a result. This is great for the consumer.

Can't wait to see how PCars will shake PD out of their comfort zone.👍

Unfortunately they don't release sales figures.

Shareholders should have access to these on a yearly basis, any around here?

 

[Snakebitten]

I have to agree with the posters that are shining light on the obvious shortcomings on this franchise for the past decade etc. Kaz has not built upon some of the great features of past GT games like qualifying, integrated Bspec especially for 24 hour races and many other areas. Instead he has continued to give up lackluster AI, took away qualifying and Bspec integration [rumored to be coming back] and left us with pseudo racing where you start from the back and run down an AI that doesn't want to win. The game has gone away from its roots and seems more arcade now than ever before. Even the good ideas from past games in regard menu systems, garages for your cars, animated celebrations after you win etc are now gone in place of boring and clumsy menus and cheap win screens that I could make in photoshop with my eyes closed.

I love the much improved models etc over the past games but because of this silly approach I've become a car collector again instead of a car racer as I was rabidly in the past despite the improved driving dynamics. I'm just sick of chasing rabbits series after series, race after race. I think Kaz is Elmer Fudd PD and its wabbit season year round where he is.

After seeing the mess that was GT5 and how they tried to improve this flawed release Im not too hopeful of GT6 as it took seems to have been released unfinished. I preordered but this will be my last GT game I buy until I see PD and Kaz take this series seriously again. The game is enjoyable to a point but it isn't keeping me at it for hours like the older fully finished games once did. Just too many things sapping "my" joy of the game.

 

[NixxxoN]

Can't wait to see how PCars will shake PD out of their comfort zone.👍

Why the hate on PD?

 

[amar212]

Can't wait to see how PCars will shake PD out of their comfort zone.👍

You will wait for he long time

PCARS is small, self-publsihing title on the consoles (and on PC), unless SMS find a way to get some big publisher behind, which will be very hard (read:impossible) , because the way pCARS is funded (I am one of the funders and I am deeply involved into project for 3 years almost). While GT is the main PS franchise and most influential driving game in the world from many imaginable perspectives. Even zillions Microsoft invested into Forza franchise haven't done much in that regard, maybe only for US market partially.

I really do not understand claims like above, because I really see no resemblance whatsoever between pCARS and GT, except both are "driving/simulation games". pCARS is made in vain of late TOCA games, not Gran Turismo. And once released, its appeal will not be that much interesting to casual and mainstream audience, nor that is the goal of the developer.

pCARS and Assetto Corsa are main competitors to each other, both made as PC simulators and with strong intention to come on consoles as well (which I strongly support). However, none of them will even scratch GT games, or "shake" them, whatever that means.

I highly welcome all more hard-core games on consoles, because at the end, it will create more competitive space and paint different picture of the audience - and at the end it will give more "space" to the overall growth of the genre. But thinking how pCARS or Assetto Corsa will make some influence on GT series or whatever is either complete misunderstanding of philosophy of PC/AC or simply wishful thinking.

 

[TokoTurismo]

I thank god for gt5, Its the game that made me buy a pc, and real race sims!

Real sims IMO are the most boring for me. GT and FM knows where there at. I'll be getting pCARS for PS4, but if it fails like Shift 2 and has those blasted icy physics (on consoles), I'm going to be pissed and question why it was getting so much hyped... I hope it doesn't fail.

 

[Tired Tyres]

You will wait for he long time

PCARS is small, self-publsihing title on the consoles (and on PC), unless SMS find a way to get some big publisher behind, which will be very hard (read:impossible) , because the way pCARS is funded (I am one of the funders and I am deeply involved into project for 3 years almost). While GT is the main PS franchise and most influential driving game in the world from many imaginable perspectives. Even zillions Microsoft invested into Forza franchise haven't done much in that regard, maybe only for US market partially.

I really do not understand claims like above, because I really see no resemblance whatsoever between pCARS and GT, except both are "driving/simulation games". pCARS is made in vain of late TOCA games, not Gran Turismo. And once released, its appeal will not be that much interesting to casual and mainstream audience, nor that is the goal of the developer.

pCARS and Assetto Corsa are main competitors to each other, both made as PC simulators and with strong intention to come on consoles as well (which I strongly support). However, none of them will even scratch GT games, or "shake" them, whatever that means.

I highly welcome all more hard-core games on consoles, because at the end, it will create more competitive space and paint different picture of the audience - and at the end it will give more "space" to the overall growth of the genre. But thinking how pCARS or Assetto Corsa will make some influence on GT series or whatever is either complete misunderstanding of philosophy of PC/AC or simply wishful thinking.

Kunos have intention to put Assento Corsa on PS4/Xbox1? Or is this more a hope or wishful thinking?

 

[Soundtrack]

Why the hate on PD?

There must be some kind of (big) misunderstanding. I’m by no mean a PD hater. Feel free to check my posting history if you are in doubt.

Also I see competition as a very positive thing, where companies eventually enter a mutual winning dynamic.

For sure PCars and GT are very different in terms of scale and scope, but since they are likely (fingers crossed) to run on the same platform, comparison will undoubtedly be made. If a small “self-funded” studio (with a pedigree, and with the freedom of building “their game” assisted by "their audience enthusiasts") can challenge a big corporate one on some key elements of design ( graphics, car selection, track selection, physics, A.I.), they will undoubtedly create a situation where the big one will need to react. Hence the reciprocal dynamic.

and @amar212 as a funding partner of the project I wish you a (proportionnaly) comparable success and longevity.👍

 

[Magic Ayrton]

There must be some kind of (big) misunderstanding. I’m by no mean a PD hater. Feel free to check my posting history if you are in doubt.

Also I see competition as a very positive thing, where companies eventually enter a mutual winning dynamic.

For sure PCars and GT are very different in terms of scale and scope, but since they are likely (fingers crossed) to run on the same platform, comparison will undoubtedly be made. If a small “self-funded” studio (with a pedigree, and with the freedom of building “their game” assisted by "their audience enthusiasts") can challenge a big corporate one on some key elements of design ( graphics, car selection, track selection, physics, A.I.), they will undoubtedly create a situation where the big one will need to react. Hence the reciprocal dynamic.

and @amar212 as a funding partner of the project I wish you a (proportionnaly) comparable success and longevity.👍

But when will we learn to no longer finance sub par games? I like GT, but the series progression isn't exactly great either, I won't be buying a PS4 until I am sure it is a complete game. (probably not alone either)

 

[Soundtrack]

But when will we learn to no longer finance sub par games? I like GT, but the series progression isn't exactly great either, I won't be buying a PS4 until I am sure it is a complete game. (probably not alone either)

I don’t think I’ve been swindled by PD neither, luckily I’m still free to purchase or not the proposed products.

Ironically, a Polyphony’s competitor (with all proportions in mind) may end up being my motivation to purchase a PS4. At this point I have no interest in the platform, since the only game that could have remotely arouse my interest has been delayed (Watchdogs not DriveClub). None of the other functionality - contrary to PS3 - neither. Little ironic considering PS3 has possibly been the “worst” gaming platform Sony has released. If you look at it, PS4 specs (tech evolution aside) somehow demonstrate Sony sort of acknowledged they took a little overzealous road with the Cell based architecture.

As for series progression, if you look beyond the paddle, GT has possibly been one of the most impressive gaming franchise in the last years.

 

[sinbad]

Today there are more decent/good driving/racing games than several years ago, it means games in general will sell less.

What else is there on ps3 which even remotely attempts the Gran Turismo style of game?
To my mind there are certainly no more Gt rivals today than there were in the ps2 days, no matter how roughly you define "rival". With no Enthusia equivalent there are arguably fewer.

 

[TokoTurismo]

What else is there on ps3 which even remotely attempts the Gran Turismo style of game?
To my mind there are certainly no more Gt rivals today than there were in the ps2 days, no matter how roughly you define "rival". With no Enthusia equivalent there are arguably fewer.

Enthusia Professional Racing (in my opinion) was by far the best GT style game to rival GT back in the day. Even Sega GT and Auto Modellista tried to rival GT on PS2. Nowadays there's hardly any that wants to rival GT but Forza.

 

[Sohvakettu]

I thank god for gt5, Its the game that made me buy a pc, and real race sims!

For me it was GT4 that made me buy PC sims. Not because GT4 was bad, but because it was so good: I wanted more! I wish GT would still have that effect but am not very hopefull.

I for one have skipped GT6 at launch and will wait for the price to go down or the promissed and speculated additions to come to reality before buying (Last year most of my GT5 gaming was endurance related...).

 

[eSZee]

Just checked, it was 5.5mil in first 2 weeks.

No it wasn't. Not even close.

 

[dacc10]

There are too many possibilities to "justify" the lack of sales... And one of the most important is this generation of kids and teenagers (that swag, yolo, gangster wannabes, this kind of mentality), is a huge factor on selling. These days all people care is about destruction, instant fun, and GT6 doesn't offer this, it's too hard, too long for many (the same reason you have more COD players than BF players) all they want is getting a GT-R in the 1st 10 minutes of gameplay, just like almost any NFS game, and the grapphics are all that matters. Do you think they play GTA for the history? They like it because they can do what they want to do but can't in real life, the KILL KILL KILL and CRASH CRASH CRASH filosophy. I know some people that played the game, they finished the game in the first week, and then say there is nothing more to do other than kill and run from the cops... GTA is one of the reasons that "killed" GT6 sales, all the money was spent on it, so most of the people don't have more money, I know atleast two guys that have bought GTA and got GT6 too, and what they say? They are loving GT6, just like me. And another reason is the european crisis, some people sold consoles to get money, others stopped buying games at all or wait for them to get cheaper. Millions of unemployed people in Portugal, Spain, Italy, Greece for example, do you think these families are going to buy games? No money, no games, thats it. And for those who are wealthy, that can buy everything they want that wanted the game to be in next gen, well the sales would be probably even lower, just because most of the people don't have money to buy a new console at launch. I wouldn't buy neither most of the people I know, and most of the people here in this forum.