GTP IndyCar S2 | Champions - TomMcD & Team Penske! | Awards Announced!

[cgr-10]

Any news on the pens/exclusion?

Yep, no exclusions but somebody is receiving a final warning and a stern 'Read the OP 5 times over' PM.

Penalties and points should be up tonight.

 

[DrifterJoe]

The last of my reports have been sent to Tom. Once he's gone over one or two things and decided on potential penalties for others, this thread should be updated with the penalties etc.

EDIT: penalty appeals will be welcome. We'll have more drivers take a look at the incident and give us their views on it.

 

[cgr-10]

Penalties

PAWEL - 7pts Collision with neljack causing engine damage and lap 80 wreck with Knelly.

Fastfox - 7pts lap 55 wreck with Joe, wreck of Knelly to bring out 1st caution.

Artmannn - Disqualification Speeding into pit lane, pitting under caution regularly and overtaking under caution regularly, unlapping himself. Final Warning

ADR - 11pts Causing lap 14 wreck and pitting under caution 3 times.

All these incidents have been reviewed by myself and Joe. Any appeals must be addressed to both of us via PM ONLY! Also, please only appeal if you are 99% convinced you are in the right, we've spent a long time reviewing this race and would like to end it here and move forward 👍

 

[DrifterJoe]

Should also point out that this season's penalty system is 5 points for the first offence in a race, and another 2 points for every additional offence.

 

[cgr-10]

And that Drop was racing for KV Tech, LV for Dragon.

 

[IndyWolf]

Now I think about, I pulled the Dan Wheldon (god bless him) challenge, coming from last and finishing in 1st, hope have the same luck @ the 500 and Daytona, hopefully

 

[cgr-10]

Guys, I'm considering scrapping 'pit under caution' penalites just for round 1 for people who've only done it once in the race. This is because communication was pretty bad to the drivers due to everybody talking over each other.

EDIT: Doing this, updating now.

 

[berty1979]

Indy in the lead at indy.....YOU CAN DO IT MANG!

 

[fastfox400]

Under the first caution i could only hear a few people due to lag. I will be aending you om shortly tom. I have to review the replay. For a few things.

 

[cgr-10]

Under the first caution i could only hear a few people due to lag. I will be aending you om shortly tom. I have to review the replay. For a few things.

I'm scrapping single pit under caution penalties for this race, your penalty is reduced to 9pts.

 

[Cowboys965]

Penalties

PAWEL - 7pts Collision with neljack causing engine damage and lap 80 wreck with Knelly.

Fastfox - 9pts Breach of transmission regulations, lap 55 wreck with Joe, wreck of Knelly to bring out 1st caution.

Artmannn - Disqualification Speeding into pit lane, pitting under caution regularly and overtaking under caution regularly, unlapping himself. Final Warning

ADR - 11pts Causing lap 14 wreck and pitting under caution 3 times.

All these incidents have been reviewed by myself and Joe. Any appeals must be addressed to both of us via PM ONLY! Also, please only appeal if you are 99% convinced you are in the right, we've spent a long time reviewing this race and would like to end it here and move forward 👍

3 times under caution? You mean when the pits were closed?

 

[DrifterJoe]

3 times under caution? You mean when the pits were closed?

Correct.

 

[MustangRyan]

Is there some way we could discuss the idea of changing the rules so that pitting under caution isn't allowed? It just seems like throwing a caution for a wreck, and then allowing everyone to pit/repair under caution and still catch back up to the front of the field for the restart is a bit weird to me. You can actually make up time by wrecking, since the field is gathered back up and you get to repair damage with no time penalty added at all. I know this would cause issues with innocent bystanders in accidents, but I think the possibility should at least be discussed.

My proposal would be to limit all cautions to two laps (another plus, more green flag racing). During the first caution lap, the safety car would come to the track and pick up the leader. The pits would be closed the moment the word CAUTION is typed in by the safety car driver. The entire field would gather up together behind the safety car. Anyone that pits under caution is automatically penalized 1 lap by the league director following the race. At the end of the second caution lap, the pits would open. Any driver would be allowed to follow behind the safety car into pit road, as the field takes the green flag to restart the race.

This means that damaged cars could enter the pits while everyone else is getting back up to speed on the restart. The damaged cars would lose some time to the leaders that stay out, but not nearly as much time as if there was no caution period at all. They would be pitting under green from basically the same track position as the leader (most likely a huge improvement from their previous track position).

This means that pitting would cost you time on track, just as taking damage should. It also means that all pit stops become green flag pit stops, bringing more strategy back to the race planning. It also means that cautions shouldn't breed more cautions as cars that were wrecked are more likely to pit to fix their damage at the start of the next green flag run, while some cars will inevitably stay out to take advantage of the track position granted by not pitting. It should spread the field back out a little, which is a good thing. However, the cars that stay out will still need to pit at some point, so you still have a chance to catch back up to them when they pit under green later.

However, it's not too damaging to have one accident, as your damage-repairing stop can take the place of a regularly scheduled fuel/tire stop if it occurs at the right time. Because the pits were closed under caution, no one else could stop either. So, this could also result in all the cars pitting at the same time anyway. In that case, no driver would lose any time to the leaders.

But, it would be up to each driver how to play it, instead of having to pit under every caution because everyone else is going to, and they will still restart where you do, but with more fuel and fresher tires.

Thoughts?

 

[Dragonwar233]

Wow that is embarrassing, I actually muted everybody but Tom and I didn't know about the pitting rule. Also I'm very sorry about the start I was very tired and I wasn't used to driving in traffic so I spun a couple times because of how draft affected my car and so on. I'm not sure what happened lap 14 but I'm guessing it was when I hit Artmann which I think might of been a lag issue. I don't remember causing any other wrecks besides spinning myself 2 times.

 

[Cowboys965]

Is there some way we could discuss the idea of changing the rules so that pitting under caution isn't allowed? It just seems like throwing a caution for a wreck, and then allowing everyone to pit/repair under caution and still catch back up to the front of the field for the restart is a bit weird to me. You can actually make up time by wrecking, since the field is gathered back up and you get to repair damage with no time penalty added at all. I know this would cause issues with innocent bystanders in accidents, but I think the possibility should at least be discussed.

My proposal would be to limit all cautions to two laps (another plus, more green flag racing). During the first caution lap, the safety car would come to the track and pick up the leader. The pits would be closed the moment the word CAUTION is typed in by the safety car driver. The entire field would gather up together behind the safety car. Anyone that pits under caution is automatically penalized 1 lap by the league director following the race. At the end of the second caution lap, the pits would open. Any driver would be allowed to follow behind the safety car into pit road, as the field takes the green flag to restart the race.

This means that damaged cars could enter the pits while everyone else is getting back up to speed on the restart. The damaged cars would lose some time to the leaders that stay out, but not nearly as much time as if there was no caution period at all. They would be pitting under green from basically the same track position as the leader (most likely a huge improvement from their previous track position).

This means that pitting would cost you time on track, just as taking damage should. It also means that all pit stops become green flag pit stops, bringing more strategy back to the race planning. It also means that cautions shouldn't breed more cautions as cars that were wrecked are more likely to pit to fix their damage at the start of the next green flag run, while some cars will inevitably stay out to take advantage of the track position granted by not pitting. It should spread the field back out a little, which is a good thing. However, the cars that stay out will still need to pit at some point, so you still have a chance to catch back up to them when they pit under green later.

However, it's not too damaging to have one accident, as your damage-repairing stop can take the place of a regularly scheduled fuel/tire stop if it occurs at the right time. Because the pits were closed under caution, no one else could stop either. So, this could also result in all the cars pitting at the same time anyway. In that case, no driver would lose any time to the leaders.

But, it would be up to each driver how to play it, instead of having to pit under every caution because everyone else is going to, and they will still restart where you do, but with more fuel and fresher tires.

Thoughts?

No.

 

[cgr-10]

No worries ADR 👍

Drop, that's an interesting proposal and although in the past (even recently) i've stuck by our procedure, it does need to change. Am I getting mixed up or is that how cautions go down in the actual series? If not, enlighten me on how it does at the moment because I haven't had chance to watch a full Indy race so far this season.

EDIT: By the way guys it's probably a good idea to let you know that Drop is our new safety car driver, at least for the road courses.

 

[LVracerGT]

Not sure how many of you actually pay attention to the real IndyCar Series, but Beaux Barfield, the new race director, as of Long Beach no longer closes the pits under caution (on the road courses at least) so that not everyone is pitting at the same time to create less congestion on pit road.

I would be in favor of of shortening safety car periods and keeping the pits open.

 

[Cowboys965]

No worries ADR 👍

Drop, that's an interesting proposal and although in the past (even recently) i've stuck by our procedure, it does need to change. Am I getting mixed up or is that how cautions go down in the actual series? If not, enlighten me on how it does at the moment because I haven't had chance to watch a full Indy race so far this season.

EDIT: By the way guys it's probably a good idea to let you know that Drop is our new safety car driver, at least for the road courses.

Will he drive a yellow 2001 Mustang?

I like how it is, since someone else's screwup has less a chance to ruin your race,
Maybe those who get damage start in back on restart?

 

[cgr-10]

Not sure how many of you actually pay attention to the real IndyCar Series, but Beaux Barfield, the new race director, as of Long Beach no longer closes the pits under caution (on the road courses at least) so that not everyone is pitting at the same time to create less congestion on pit road.

I would be in favor of of shortening safety car periods and keeping the pits open.

Even though I haven't had chance to watch full races this season so far, I am aware of this. I agree, shortening periods and keeping the pits open would be easier for race review and promote more green flag action obviously.

 

[neljack]

So wait what Im confused , the pitting under SC rules will still be same, but are not counting for last race (Indy), correct?

 

[cgr-10]

So wait what Im confused , the pitting under SC rules will still be same, but are not counting for last race (Indy), correct?

Last race was run under the current rules and people would have been penalised for pitting under caution but I thought that was harsh due to the communication issues.

We're trying to sort out a new caution procedure

 

[neljack]

What was my incident with Pawel? Was that when a caution came out and he didnt slow down?

 

[IndyWolf]

I'll help if needed Tom

 

[cgr-10]

What was my incident with Pawel? Was that when a caution came out and he didnt slow down?

Yeah he gave you engine damage man.

Cheers Indy, we'll see how things go but I agree this procedure has to change.

 

[DrifterJoe]

What was my incident with Pawel? Was that when a caution came out and he didnt slow down?

I think it was as some cars were catching up to the back of the pack at a restart, and he hit the back of you as you were beginning to get up to speed. You pitted at the end of the lap to fix whatever the damage was (engine probably).

 

[MustangRyan]

If you leave the pits open all the time, cars that get to pit road first could pit, and then come back around and pass the leader, who could pit afterwards, depending on his location on track when the caution begins. That would definitely be bad.

Example: The leader is entering the front stretch at Indy Road, up by 20 seconds. A pack crashes in the esses, bringing out a caution. If you leave pit road open, everyone pits before the leader. Because of the safety car's slow speed, the cars that pitted all pass the leader when he finally gets around to pit road at the end of his next lap. Does that seem right?

The pits have to be closed and reopened in some kind of manner that retains the natural running order in a reasonable manner.

 

[cgr-10]

Fair play, so the pits have to be closed.

Tomorrow afternoon i'll think about this further, I may even incorporate your proposal with some aspects of the actual IndyCar procedure. For now I need some sleep though.

 

[Cowboys965]

Tom, I just read the start is 3:30PM?

A bit early you think? At least an hour later?

 

[cgr-10]

Tom, I just read the start is 3:30PM?

A bit early you think? At least an hour later?

Where does it say that?

 

[MustangRyan]

Am I getting mixed up or is that how cautions go down in the actual series? If not, enlighten me on how it does at the moment because I haven't had chance to watch a full Indy race so far this season.

It's not their actual procedure. But, the cars that are totaled on lap 13 also don't rejoin the lead pack good as new when the race restarts on lap 16, either.


My proposal is just a quick and easy way to minimize caution laps, and to try to prevent people that get in multiple accidents from continually rejoining the lead pack with fresh tires and a full tank of fuel. I've found that this is what usually leads to more cautions than anything else.

Knowing that you can't pit under caution might even cause more drivers to use a little more caution than is currently exhibited.


I'm not saying it has to change, but I think an open dialogue would be a good thing here.