GTRA | RSeat WSGTC S3 | Main Thread

[Wardez]

Nice, thanks, light damage is crucially needed.

 

[NEPALII]

Hmm well I like the heavy damage it punishes mistakes and forces people to focus more, when overtaking ect ect.

Yes, but it isn't safe considering the amount of new people we have this season. I say change it to the light for the sake of safety.

 

[Wardez]

It allows people to focus more, but only those same people that focus already. This is to protect them, all the other more reckless drivers will continue to be just as reckless regardless of damage setting. This also prevents people from feeling like they "lost" the race if they get damaged at the beginning of a race.

 

[paulmac2k9]

Well ive had no problems in Gt300 all the guys in there seem super fast and respectful 👍.

Hmm I guess so Wardez but im still on the fence here .

 

[Wardez]

Yeah I'm sure Paul, but this prevents it from ever becoming a problem. So it'll make it an even better experience.

 

[CSLACR]

Well ive had no problems in Gt300 all the guys in there seem super fast and respectful 👍.

Hmm I guess so Wardez but im still on the fence here .

The main points I see, are that a reckless driver will get a penalty, making it not worth it in the first place either way.
But with damage on light, the victims suffer less.

 

[redreevos]

I, personally, have grown to like the heavy damage setting. It keeps people from banging unnecessarily. I know we have the OLR for the basis for our rules, but I still think some like to think this is the BTCC.

But I look forward to seeing what the consensus on this will be.

Edit - Good comments above. I guess low damage could work, we just need to make sure we still hand out penalties for overly aggressive driving. I just don't want the lowering of the damage to give certain people ideas that they can bang people around.

 

[paulmac2k9]

BTCC . Why does everyone go there first for agressive driving I wonder . (Nothing to do with my avatar )

But yes those are good points, I suppose I just like the added pressure of heavy damage. Ill go with it if it changes as to me it wont make any difference (Just Monaco will be alot less scary )

 

[The Widowmaker]

I agree with what Paul said, but when you have an unfortunate incident like me and NEPALII had in the PAL Sprint, or minor things, it means the punishment for a small offence doesn't fit the crime. On the other hand; it'd go some way to prevent the Braille driving (NTSC GT500 as an example) and impatience that you see on occasion during these races. Therefore I think we should keep Heavy damage for the races.

 

[The Widowmaker]

BTCC . Why does everyone go there first for agressive driving I wonder . (Nothing to do with my avatar )

I'm a huge BTCC fan, but even I'll admit some of the driving you see is borderline amateur.

 

[CSLACR]

.:Announcement:.


One of the most important changes we're now planning to implement in WSGTC is the light damage setting, so please let us know what you think.

We are also considering allowing 1 stint on medium tires for each feature and sprint race.

The deadline for your feedbacks is friday, 26th at 23.59 GMT. After this, we will communicate you a final decision and it will apply for the whole season.​

I, personally, have grown to like the heavy damage setting. It keeps people from banging unnecessarily. I know we have the OLR for the basis for our rules, but I still think some like to think this is the BTCC.

But I look forward to seeing what the consensus on this will be.

Edit - Good comments above. I guess low damage could work, we just need to make sure we still hand out penalties for overly aggressive driving. I just don't want the lowering of the damage to give certain people ideas that they can bang people around.

I enjoy heavy damage in some series, other I do not.
I prefer light damage for the sake of lag incidents, bad driving incidents, can't help yourself incidents, and people just having a bad day.

Changing the damage setting won't have any effect of the penalty system whatsoever, aggressive/reckless driving won't be tolerated in any manner.

 

[twistedfirework]

i can see the argument for light damage. but if i am honest, i prefer the heavy damage. i think it may take a race or two, but it makes better drivers. the only way for people to try and avoid contact is to have heavy damage as the outcome. avoid damage at all costs. once everyone understands that, the better championship

 

[Wardez]

On the other hand; it'd go some way to prevent the Braille driving (NTSC GT500 as an example) and impatience that you see on occasion during these races. Therefore I think we should keep Heavy damage for the races.

You've got to understand that on paper, the psychology you just mentioned is sound. But once you get on track things are absolutely different. Our brains just don't function as one would expect. Once emotions kick in, people aren't going to stop and think, " well derp we're using heavy damage so I better not go for this dive bomb."

No, all he'll be thinking about is how much he wants the position. It changes nothing. The careful drivers will stay careful, the reckless ones, will stay as such. This goes a long way in preventing the reckless ones from ruining races.

Trust me, I've seen it all and you can depend on this insight.

Bottom line is, this group is too new and large, so it needs to run light in my opinion in order to really get to know each other. If the group stays for the following season, heavy damage will be a fitting option.

 

[Wardez]

For those "attached" to heavy damage. It's crucial to realize exactly where you grew to like heavy damage. Because it's not going to be quite the same every where else. WSGTC 2 was 90% veteran.

 

[NEPALII]

I agree with what Paul said, but when you have an unfortunate incident like me and NEPALII had in the PAL Sprint, or minor things, it means the punishment for a small offence doesn't fit the crime. On the other hand; it'd go some way to prevent the Braille driving (NTSC GT500 as an example) and impatience that you see on occasion during these races. Therefore I think we should keep Heavy damage for the races.

Good points, but imagine that NTSC race with heavy damage. The incidents would still happen and there would be people pitting every lap.

Again, I don't think some here are just bad people, or they are reckless, I just think they aren't well experienced and not ready for this type of racing. Given GT5's crappy collision physics, a misjudged braking point for example can ruin someone's race. It doesn't mean that person that created the incident meant to do it, it's just he/she couldn't handle it. Nothing wrong with being less skilled. 👍

 

[redreevos]

I'm a huge BTCC fan, but even I'll admit some of the driving you see is borderline amateur.

I'm not knocking the spectating value of the BTCC. I am just amazed at how often punting someone else of the track goes unpunished. I just watched a race I had on the DVR where Boardmann completely punted the leader(Plato) off the track... As he didn't seem to have the skill to pass him any other way.

Multiple laps later, Boardmann took the checkered flag. I am sometimes not sure there are any stewards in that series at all.

But that is fine, if that is what is allowed, and everyone knows it. What isn't allowed, is people racing in GT5 series like it is the BTCC. The stewards here closely follow the OLR rules, and will penalize.

 

[NEPALII]

wsgtc 2 was 90% veteran.

+1000

 

[CSLACR]

I fully agree with Wardez here.

I know all the pros for full damage, and I love it. Just not starting up a new season with so many new drivers.

 

[paulmac2k9]

I was one of the 10% new in S2 and it was here where I first learned to race heavy damage .

Edit:

I'm not knocking the spectating value of the BTCC. I am just amazed at how often punting someone else of the track goes unpunished. I just watched a race I had on the DVR where Boardmann completely punted the leader(Plato) off the track... As he didn't seem to have the skill to pass him any other way.

Multiple laps later, Boardmann took the checkered flag. I am sometimes not sure there are any stewards in that series at all.

That was at Knockhill it happened right infront of me boy did I swear like 🤬 at him for it! (As did most of the crowd) and was all due to the Turbo power over the N/A Chevy . Boardman imo is a punk anyway he allways punts people off doing stupid moves.

 

[CSLACR]

One thing I thought of, for example: people racing have between 200-500ms lag, depending on connection and distance. That's half a second you won't see brake lights that the car in front of you is braking, and people need to get more familiar with this before heavy damage racing can be successful.

 

[redreevos]

Good points, but imagine that NTSC race with heavy damage. The incidents would still happen and there would be people pitting every lap.

Again, I don't think some here are just bad people, or they are reckless, I just think they aren't well experienced and not ready for this type of racing. Given GT5's crappy collision physics, a misjudged braking point for example can ruin someone's race. It doesn't mean that person that created the incident meant to do it, it's just he/she couldn't handle it. Nothing wrong with being less skilled. 👍

I completely disagree. It is not a matter of skill. If you are following someone in the draft you need to brake earlier.

I have noticed certain people are always banging into the backs of people, clipping the car in front mid turn, etc.. Then there are those people that don't. I think the stewards can pretty easily see which type of driver is which.
I don't think it is about level of skill.

The most important thing is to respect other people's races as well as your own. Not just blindly throw darts where some of the time it will be a wreck involving both drivers, and sometimes it will be a pass.

I really haven't had any problems with GT5's collision physics. They have been virtually the same since the game was introduced. It is up to us to accept them and drive appropriately. I don't think anyone should blame the GT5 physics for contact, collision, or wreck. The only time the game can be blamed, IMO, is when there is bad lag, and the drivers replays show different things occurring.

 

[redreevos]

I was one of the 10% new in S2 and it was here where I first learned to race heavy damage .

Edit:

That was at Knockhill it happened right infront of me boy did I swear like 🤬 at him for it! (As did most of the crowd) and was all due to the Turbo power over the N/A Chevy . Boardman imo is a punk anyway he allways punts people off doing stupid moves.

You are correct.. Knockhill. Forgot which replay I watched, as I don't know the course.

Awesome.. you were there. Must have been a fun day. 👍

 

[CSLACR]

Good points, but imagine that NTSC race with heavy damage. The incidents would still happen and there would be people pitting every lap.

Again, I don't think some here are just bad people, or they are reckless, I just think they aren't well experienced and not ready for this type of racing. Given GT5's crappy collision physics, a misjudged braking point for example can ruin someone's race. It doesn't mean that person that created the incident meant to do it, it's just he/she couldn't handle it. Nothing wrong with being less skilled. 👍

The problem, 9 times out of 10, is that someone tries to "out brake" someone.
It's nothing to do with driver skill, the only way you can out brake someone, is if they brake too early.
"Out braking" is the cause of most online crashes, and it's the most impossible feat you can attempt most of the time to boot.

 

[NEPALII]

I completely disagree. It is not a matter of skill. If you are following someone in the draft you need to brake earlier.

I have noticed certain people are always banging into the backs of people, clipping the car in front mid turn, etc.. Then there are those people that don't. I think the stewards can pretty easily see which type of driver is which.
I don't think it is about level of skill.

The most important thing is to respect other people's races as well as your own. Not just blindly throw darts where some of the time it will be a wreck involving both drivers, and sometimes it will be a pass.

I really haven't had any problems with GT5's collision physics. They have been virtually the same since the game was introduced. It is up to us to accept them and drive appropriately. I don't think anyone should blame the GT5 physics for contact, collision, or wreck. The only time the game can be blamed, IMO, is when there is bad lag, and the drivers replays show different things occurring.

By skill I meant awareness, if you know what I mean. That's one thing I have learned over the time racing with you guys. And regarding the physics, the cars are like bumper cars when they collide. Add that with lag, and you have the ultimate bouncy car.

Anyways, I'm praying to see flawless or near flawless racing on both Friday and Saturday.

 

[The Widowmaker]

You've got to understand that on paper, the psychology you just mentioned is sound. But once you get on track things are absolutely different. Our brains just don't function as one would expect. Once emotions kick in, people aren't going to stop and think, " well derp we're using heavy damage so I better not go for this dive bomb."

No, all he'll be thinking about is how much he wants the position. It changes nothing. The careful drivers will stay careful, the reckless ones, will stay as such. This goes a long way in preventing the reckless ones from ruining races.

Trust me, I've seen it all and you can depend on this insight.
.

Fair point, I concur, but as you say yourself, the careful drivers and the reckless drivers will drive in their particular manner, irrespective. I appreciate that it's only a game, when all is said and done, but we are racing in a quality league, with plenty of quality drivers and prizes at stake, we should be capable (allowing for the variables and the things out of the control of us) to race clean & close with full damage without it descending into a messy farce. In the real world, you pay the price, and I believe it should be the same here.

Also, that was a ridiculous amount to write on an iPhone.

 

[twistedfirework]

You've got to understand that on paper, the psychology you just mentioned is sound. But once you get on track things are absolutely different. Our brains just don't function as one would expect. Once emotions kick in, people aren't going to stop and think, " well derp we're using heavy damage so I better not go for this dive bomb."

No, all he'll be thinking about is how much he wants the position. It changes nothing. The careful drivers will stay careful, the reckless ones, will stay as such. This goes a long way in preventing the reckless ones from ruining races.

Trust me, I've seen it all and you can depend on this insight.

Bottom line is, this group is too new and large, so it needs to run light in my opinion in order to really get to know each other. If the group stays for the following season, heavy damage will be a fitting option.

as much as i love the heavy damage of last year, i can see what you are saying and it does make sense.

 

[Scanny_Flick]

Absolutely 100% against this change! I feel it completely devalues the experience

It's worked fine as it is all along, there were no veterans in season 1 and it worked. It works fine in PURE where a large number of people were brought together who hadn't raced with each other before with some who may not have driven much full damage before.

We're not that big a group (see pre-season turn outs) and the ones that will stick around but are new to WSGTC have been around the block, it's the same old names from GTP Series'. Any that don't fall into this bracket are in the absolute minority and regs shouldn't be changed for the minority.

There may have been a few incidents in pre-season but there always is, lessons will be learned very quickly once the season starts. Accidents can and will happen, it's racing, you take it on the chin and move on not dumb it down.

 

[CSLACR]

Absolutely 100% against this change! I feel it completely devalues the experience

It's worked fine as it is all along, there were no veterans in season 1 and it worked. It works fine in PURE where a large number of people were brought together who hadn't raced with each other before with some who may not have driven much full damage before.

We're not that big a group (see pre-season turn outs) and the ones that will stick around but are new to WSGTC have been around the block, it's the same old names from GTP Series'. Any that don't fall into this bracket are in the absolute minority and regs shouldn't be changed for the minority.

There may have been a few incidents in pre-season but there always is, lessons will be learned very quickly once the season starts. Accidents can and will happen, it's racing, you take it on the chin and move on not dumb it down.

But will they?

 

[Wardez]

Fair point, I concur, but as you say yourself, the careful drivers and the reckless drivers will drive in their particular manner, irrespective. I appreciate that it's only a game, when all is said and done, but we are racing in a quality league, with plenty of quality drivers and prizes at stake, we should be capable (allowing for the variables and the things out of the control of us) to race clean & close with full damage without it descending into a messy farce. In the real world, you pay the price, and I believe it should be the same here.

Also, that was a ridiculous amount to write on an iPhone.

This way it only punishes the person who crashed into the driver (as he'd get a penalty most probably) not both of the people (since obviously the person getting punted will have to pit). Since this is a higher stake series due to the prize, we want to prevent as many rage quits as possible. We're looking for a consistent experience here.

@Scanny
Season 1 had a huge pre-season remember? And it had lots of trouble in some senses. Those that stayed were the good ones that started season 1 of WSGTC, which is why it went pretty smoothyl - most of the time.

PURE is an experiment, every driver was hand picked solely for their clean driving style. Which is why it works there.

It doesn't devalue anything in my opinion.

The series I feel had the best competition ever, the Lotus 111R RM series, used light damage, FMSC 3 used light damage and you won't find many other better experiences outside of them. If we used heavy it just would've been forgettable.

You have to understand how much more work you're asking for when considering heavy damage as well. Either you prevent it/ease it by picking the right drivers and make it invitation only (PURE) or you go through the trouble of putting endless hours into post-race review and penalizing as we had to do in WSGTC 2, which was mind-numbingly painstaking work if you'll care to remember. It would be even more so here. So those are the two options/sacrifices for using heavy damage and keeping integrity.

Or we could just use light damage 💡

 

[redreevos]

I will actually be happy with either one. Very good points made so far on both sides.

I do like the heavy damage settings, as it keeps people from banging around, because the damage is crippling. But I also understand that most series, no matter how well planned, end up with a couple of people that are just too reckless, and must be removed mid-season.

With heavy damage it is not fair to the people that get "hit" by these overly aggressive drivers while they were in the series.

I have been spoiled by the PURE GT500 racing. Everyone there received personal invitations, and the racing has been almost completely drama free. The series almost seems to be self stewarding when it comes to penalties that need to be handed out.

This is a slightly different animal, but will be very fun and interesting, getting to race with new drivers. Just the stewards will have a bit more work to do, possibly.

The more I type this out, the more I am leaning toward light damage. But, like I said, I will be happy with either one.