I just traded in my PS3 + GT5 for an XBOX360 + Forza 3.

[deftonesmx17]

And who told you to enter a x2010 in against cars with 100mph top speeds? Or tune your car to X amount of power/handling to where you are 40sec lead over the AI? YOU have control of that. You are your own spoiler for the game. I look at the specs on the cars that are in the race, and I set my cars up in conjunction with them so that I have to drive with precision to win. One mistake and boom...the AI is not far behind to overtake me when/if I make that mistake.

Who said I was entering those cars? I merely pointed out that it is possible in GT5, but not possible in FM3.

As I said before, if real racing competitions did not have restrictions, manufactures (read: not drivers, as they are to drive what their boss provides them) would not limit themselves. Anyone who says otherwise desperately needs a refresher in Racing History.

Of course they are very close at the beginning of the race. Once I learn the track I can easily pull away from the AI on most tracks. Usually after a lap or two the race is won (or lost if I limit my car too much). Just like Forza3 give the casual gamer unlimited rewind (a build-in cheat) on all difficulty levels Gt5 gives the casual player the option to use a overpowering car like X2010 (cheat car) in most races.

See above...

I love how the rewind feature and/or steering assist are the only good arguments GT fans have.

I think that when you give a 360 and Forza 3 to the GT5 fanboy for a week he WILL not return too GT5 ever..Based on a True story

Yes sir, witnessed this go down with one of my friends. I remember, GT4 had been out for a few months. I bought a xbox strictly for XBMC, but someone told me about this Forza game that came out; I decided what the heck, I'll give any racing game a spin. From that day forward, I started to dislike Gran Turismo.
In comes my friend, he always wanted to play GT4, but I had already sold the game. One day I handed him the controller and said "this is why I sold GT4". He played one race, one single 🤬 race without even altering my settings or checking out the car customization, then promptly handed me back the controller and said "you're crazy GT4 is way more realistic".

Now before the GT lovers get all excited, let me give you some more information about this said friend. The PS2 was all he owned and all he ever did was talk smack about the xbox and the fact that I would even buy one. He played GT4 with TCS and ASM at max settings, while I played Forza with only ABS activated. Remember how he didn't even adjust my settings? I asked him why he didn't like Forza and could form an opinion after playing just 3 laps. His response, "Keeping the car on the road and avoiding spins was far too difficult".


Fast forward to the release of Forza 2. Said friend does not own a PS3 and I give him a free 360 that I was able to recover from the RROD. He still refuses to play Forza, but "his" 360 was backup enabled. So I threw him a disc and said, why don't you try it for more than 3 laps and alter the options before saying it's worthless. He became hooked and even admitted to being a fanboy before.

Fast forward to release of GT5, he actually spends a good amount of time trying the game at my house. Eventually he asked, "did you really buy a PS3 for this game"? If so I suggest you get your money back because this game blows".

 

[xiBR33ZYx]

At the time I had FM3 I got it a couple of months after its release and I am not gonna lie I was definitely impressed with what you could do in the game.
I liked the engine swaps and the mountain tracks a lot.
But Rear wheel drive drifting was horrible for me.I HATED it and I fount single player very boring!

I am a big GT fan so when I heard GT5 came out I sold my xbox 360 and Bought a ps3 in January 2010.The day when GT5 came out I got it and I wasn't actually disappointed with it.I knew it was a unfinished game and I knew there would be constant updates for it so it,So it didn't really bother me.As someone else said the updates make you want more .I prefer GT5 because it just feels alot more fun,People online are amazing I meet a new friend almost every day haha,Unlike xbox live I suffer with 13 year old's bugging me and telling me there car is faster and I suck etc etc (Another reason why I got a ps3 is because of the people online are a lot more friendly).

IMO GT5 just does it for me.

 

[tyl0r_r]

Weird, I thought GT5 vs Forza threads got shut down for being an endless cycle of uselessness. In regards to op, if I owned a gaming console just for one racing game I think I'd be better off ditching it and just investing in a decent PC and the sims on that platform.

 

[RikkiGT-R]

Weird, I thought GT5 vs Forza threads got shut down for being an endless cycle of uselessness. In regards to op, if I owned a gaming console just for one racing game I think I'd be better off ditching it and just investing in a decent PC and the sims on that platform.

In fairness, I think this thread has been discussed intelligently without descending into chaos. As for PC gaming - I'm currently shopping for a top spec gaming PC (I have a thread in the PC and console gaming sub-forum).

 

[infamousDee]

'Floaty physics' isn't what I feel, I feel a car I can balance, control and car that genuinley feels in contact with the road. GT5... Nah, it's not real, not even close. There are serious holes where things are simply ignored, cars will stick like baby sick to a blanket, and refuse to be upset by lumps in the track.

You would say that, wouldn't you? Unfortunately for you, words mean nothing when rashly spoken without anything to back them up.



Try repeating what you said in that post with a straight face now.

 

[tyl0r_r]

In fairness, I think this thread has been discussed intelligently without descending into chaos. As for PC gaming - I'm currently shopping for a top spec gaming PC (I have a thread in the PC and console gaming sub-forum).

If it's for racing sims, you don't need it to be top spec. I mean, yeah, it's great and all to have the best... But you can play rFactor, GTR, iRacing, etc... with just an above average computer.

rFactor 2 is coming, though. If it were me I'd try to figure out the specs that game is going to take and use those as my benchmark.

Obviously if money's not a big thing just get a really good one, though.

Edit: sorry that's kind of off topic. But all those games are more realistic than Forza (and probably GT, too) so it's kind of on topic.

 

[deftonesmx17]

You would say that, wouldn't you? Unfortunately for you, words mean nothing when rashly spoken without anything to back them up.



Try repeating what you said in that post with a straight face now.

Just look at the GT5 car bouncing all over the place like it has a production car soft suspension. The Forza side clearly shows a car which is in contact with the road due to a hard suspension.

I suggest you watch some real footage of Le Mans races. You'll quickly see the cars are not bouncing all over the 🤬 place like in GT5. Instead they are small subtle bounces like you see in Forza.

 

[CodeRedR51]

I think that when you give a 360 and Forza 3 to the GT5 fanboy for a week he WILL not return too GT5 ever..Based on a True story

Wanna bet on that?

 

[infamousDee]

They aren't floating across the road like a magic carpet either. Also, take a production car down the straight at Le Sarthe in FM3 and you'll see very little difference.

 

[deftonesmx17]

They aren't floating across the road like a magic carpet either. Also, take a production car down the straight at Le Sarthe in FM3 and you'll see very little difference.

Seriously, that's the best you have...

Forza does not look floaty in the video you posted. Instead and like I said, you see small subtle bounces just like you see in the real life footage. If what you are seeing in Forza is what you consider floaty, then real life is floaty as well.

Production car suspension smooths out at higher speeds. When driving down streets at 25-35mph, my production vehicle does indeed somewhat "bounce" around, but once I get on the freeway doing 70-80 or even 100mph, it is much less "bouncy".

 

[Barso]

As much as I love forza3 there is no way that the physics are better, they're different and no less realistic.
Both games are trying to achieve different goals but forza3 is the more consistent experience.
Also don't believe anything about forza4 that comes out at the conference this week, remember the forza3 E3 details?
I do and I am still disappointed at the release shots of cars and cockpits.
The problem with forza 3 and GT5 is that they both push the current consoles to their limits so don't expect much improvements until we get a new generation of consoles.
Also Microsoft only allows updates up to 8MB, that's why forza3 only got 1 patch as to fix everything would have exceeded that amount.

 

[deftonesmx17]

Also Microsoft only allows updates up to 8MB, that's why forza3 only got 1 patch as to fix everything would have exceeded that amount.

That is only for auto-downloading patches. Developers are free to release larger patches via DLC, a la BFBC2.

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

See above...

I love how the rewind feature and/or steering assist are the only good arguments GT fans have.

What make you think I'm a GT5 fan? I can't think of many racing game I haven't bought on both the console and PC in recent years. I haven't bought TDU2 yet but will no doubt get it in the future. (Dirt 3 , NTG 2011) I even play Mario Kart on the Wii.
The point is both games makes is easier for casual gamers just in different ways. You have to restrict yourself in both games from taking the easy path or use a car that blow the AI away.
As far as real racing I haven't seen rewind feature used IRL either.

 

[430_Riviera]

You would say that, wouldn't you? Unfortunately for you, words mean nothing when rashly spoken without anything to back them up.

*ironically meaningless comparison video of GT5 (not real) vs. Forza 3 (not real)*

Aye, that's a totally pointless video. One bounces around like it's got the suspension from an invalid carriage (GT5) and the other doesn't (Forza). Figures you didn't post a real video to compare.

Considering that the car used is a full blown racing car, the real video posted by Deftones looks more like Forza than GT5. That GT5 clip does not look like it's got $60,000 suspension set up by professional engineers, it looks like it's running with a setup akin to Fred Flinstones' car. This may be made worse by that odd shake at high speed you get in the in car camera in GT5.

I'm running an Acura X around Road America in FM3 at the present moment, and there is plenty of suspension movement and track lumps. The curbs are also nightmarish, keep tagging the one going onto the short backstraight and careening into the barriers trying to run a quick time. Also coming across the start finish line after the compression onto the front straight there is a lump that almost lifts the car off the deck. Going through any of these areas without caution will see you heading backwards into barriers at 150 in an R1 car.

 

[deftonesmx17]

What make you think I'm a GT5 fan? I can't think of many racing game I haven't bought on both the console and PC in recent years. I haven't bought TDU2 yet but will no doubt get it in the future. (Dirt 3 , NTG 2011) I even play Mario Kart on the Wii.
The point is both games makes is easier for casual gamers just in different ways. You have to restrict yourself in both games from taking the easy path or use a car that blow the AI away.
As far as real racing I haven't seen rewind feature used IRL either.

I'll admit I made an assumption and for that I will apologize. I get that the rewind feature is not realistic, but I was clearly talking about how at least Forza does limit you car class. But...you had to go and bring up the rewind feature. Keyword there, it's a feature that was included. I doubt being able to way overpower your car in GT5 was included as a "feature".

 

[CarreraGT]

That GT5 clip does not look like it's got $60,000 suspension set up by professional engineers, it looks like it's running with a setup akin to Fred Flinstones' car. This may be made worse by that odd shake at high speed you get in the in car camera in GT5.

You do realise why race cars bounce over bumps right? They are set up very stiff in order to eliminiate suspension oscillation and to minimise body roll, which is why they are very rough and appear to "bounce" over bumps.

Figures you didn't post a real video to compare.

Are you saying this Aston Martin LMP1 has Fred Flinstone suspension?



As has been said in this thread, I don't mind the Forza/GT rivalry because at the end of the day, the competition results in better games for us. But if you're going to put forward an argument at least make sure you know what you're talking about first

 

[HeadsoupBob]

Try repeating what you said in that post with a straight face now.

Thanks for that vid, it shows something that bugs me with GT5, it always feels so 'stiff' (I'm referring to cars in general, not the high end racers) Hard to explain, but Forza seems to have more subtlety in the suspension and tyres and I feel more like I'm driving a car with body roll, dampers, deformable tyres etc that can be upset. GT5 seems clinical/rigid or something. Just my opinion.

I can't wait for Shift 2 to enter the fray (and hopefully be really good), then if it is we can have two awesome racers for whichever console we have and not have this massive divide of one or the other... Awesome year for racing games this is (TDU2, Shift 2, Forza 4, rFactor 2, Dirt 3, F1 2011, updates to GT5 to make it a finished game etc)

With the above video, I think the camera movement is exaggerating the actual movement of the car, if you could see an external shot I'm sure the car would move a lot less than what the camera shows, but, if the GT5 view is simulating it as a camera view it may explain why it feels so rigid and stiff to me, where Forza's view may be sitting more as an observer, not attached to the chassis, I don't know, just the feeling I get...

 

[Terronium-12]

Can I ask two questions?

Apart from the actual discussion going on here, why do some people insist on implying someone else is wrong for enjoying one game over another? Or, for that matter, selling one platform because that person didn't enjoy the game enough and decides to move to another platform to play a game that person enjoys more...suddenly makes them "blind to what's really going on?" Of course, no one here (that I know of) actually said that, it's just a metaphor of sorts.

If the OP enjoys FM3 more, regardless of the reasons, then so be it.

 

[430_Riviera]

Thanks for that vid, it perfectly shows something that bugs me with GT5, it always feels so 'stiff.' Hard to explain, but Forza seems to have more subtlety in the suspension and tyres and I feel more like I'm driving a car with body roll, dampers, deformable tyres etc that can be upset. GT5 seems clinical/rigid or something. Just my opinion.

That is exactly my opinion.

As has been said in this thread, I don't mind the Forza/GT rivalry because at the end of the day, the competition results in better games for us. But if you're going to put forward an argument at least make sure you know what you're talking about first

Thanks for the condescending attitude, but I happen to be the race mechanic for a motorcycle rider that this year won the national Metzeler DTR streetstocks championship in the UK. One of the things I was in charge of was setting up his suspension, so ta for the 2 cents, I think i'll be sticking to my opinion of which game is more realistic though.

 

[CarreraGT]

I can't wait for Shift 2 to enter the fray (and hopefully be really good), then if it is we can have two awesome racers for whichever console we have and not have this massive divide of one or the other... Awesome year for racing games this is (TDU2, Shift 2, Forza 4, rFactor 2, Dirt 3, F1 2011, updates to GT5 to make it a finished game etc)

Amen to that 👍 Leading up to GT5's release I thought it would be the only game I would ever need but I think I got a bit sucked in by the marketing...

Now I can't wait for Forza 4 (although I will need a 360), rfactor 2, F1 2011 and NASCAR The Game. Not sure about Shift and Dirt, they have always been a bit arcade-oriented for my liking but I'll give them a go, and I'm interested to see what Black Bean can do with WRC 2011.

 

[CarreraGT]

Thanks for the condescending attitude, but I happen to be the race mechanic for a motorcycle rider that this year won the national Metzeler DTR streetstocks championship in the UK. One of the things I was in charge of was setting up his suspension, so ta for the 2 cents, I think i'll be sticking to my opinion of which game is more realistic though.

No worries man, sounds like an awesome job! Each to their own, I'm a mechanical engineer so these things interest me also. I wasn't disagreeing with your opinion, just checking that you could back it up

I still think that GT5 feels more realistic overall but I wouldn't go so far as to say that Forza 3 feels unrealistic. I'm a huge sim fan and I've literally only played Forza for about half an hour and I absolutely loved it so it must be doing something right

 

[430_Riviera]

No problem at all, it's just worth bearing in mind that there's a real world out there. My original point was that the comparison video that Infamous Dee posted was merely a comparison of GT5 and FM3, and as such showed nothing with regard to the real world. Therefore it had no point. My other point was not necessarily that race cars didn't bounce, but that there seemed to be little consequence of the bounce present in GT5. In Forza, hitting a curb or bump in the road wrong can pitch the car off the track very easily, get it really wrong over a high curb and it can even flip the car. In GT5 the car just seems to right itself with a wiggle and keep gripping. And no, I don't play with Recovery Force on.

Forza 4 holds a lot of hope for me, however I am worried about certain elements of the game being polluted by things like kinect, in much the same way certain parts of GT5 were polluted by outside influences. As we have seen, time mismanagement is a dangerous thing and trying to develop the Kinect features is going to drain time away from building on the excellent FM3 platform.

And yeah, it is a great job, I do it part time alongside a normal job and around my hobby which is offroad RC car racing/speed running. I've hit 95mph on the GPS the other day. hehe. I seriously suggest you play a bit more Forza if you've only played 30 minutes, it can get addictive. To be honest it's the only game I've ever not traded for something else, still got my original copy.

And for those looking for a proper sim, check out Grand Prix Legends from around 10 years ago. It's still the best racing sim around, and was the first to have a full Nurburgring. You could over rev and blow motors, catch fire, destroy your car, get oil leaks etc. It was untouchable in terms of physics then, and still is now, much like GP500 is for bike games.





^^ this guy has serious skills, there are no aids in that game, apart from auto box. It was monstrously hard.

 

[CarreraGT]

Forza 4 holds a lot of hope for me, however I am worried about certain elements of the game being polluted by things like kinect, in much the same way certain parts of GT5 were polluted by outside influences. As we have seen, time mismanagement is a dangerous thing and trying to develop the Kinect features is going to drain time away from building on the excellent FM3 platform.

I am also excited about Forza 4. If anything, it is this "pollution" you speak of that ruined GT5 for me. I still think the physics are great but rather than focusing on refining the AI and the racing side of the game, PD pumped resources into 3D and B-spec and adding masses of content that they simply didn't have enough time to implement effectively. As such, Kinect worries me a bit, I just hope Turn 10 are able to learn from PD's mistakes...

And for the record, I ride dirt bikes when I'm not at work so I too have a bit of experience when it comes to motorbikes and suspension tuning Racing games are my way of experiencing cars I wouldn't otherwise get the opportunity to

 

[deftonesmx17]

In Forza, hitting a curb or bump in the road wrong can pitch the car off the track very easily, get it really wrong over a high curb and it can even flip the car. In GT5 the car just seems to right itself with a wiggle and keep gripping.

Somewhat off topic rant

This reminds me of something that bugs me about GT5.

Circuit de la Sarthe Berm - GT5

Same exact spot - FM3.

The rumble strip in GT5 is a flat object, but in FM3 it is not.
Collision detection is an important part of a physics engine in a simulation, a very important part actually.

It makes me ask myself, what on earth is the tire in GT5 actually colliding with aside from a surface that is just as flat as the tarmac right next to it?

 

[430_Riviera]

There are serious holes where things are simply ignored, cars will stick like baby sick to a blanket, and refuse to be upset by lumps in the track.

Not to say I told you so...

 

[deftonesmx17]

^^
Thank you!

As we have seen, time mismanagement is a dangerous thing and trying to develop the Kinect features is going to drain time away from building on the excellent FM3 platform.

Turn 10 will just hire more people.
..
...
....
Something PD should have done considering the budget I'm sure they had.

 

[JoeMaPampang]

Wanna bet on that?

Yes i would. I know you want too drive these cars.
And you will have too wait another 5 yrs on GT6.
1000 cars or not. Quality over Quantity.

Who said I was entering those cars? I merely pointed out that it is possible in GT5, but not possible in FM3.

As I said before, if real racing competitions did not have restrictions, manufactures (read: not drivers, as they are to drive what their boss provides them) would not limit themselves. Anyone who says otherwise desperately needs a refresher in Racing History.


See above...

I love how the rewind feature and/or steering assist are the only good arguments GT fans have.


Yes sir, witnessed this go down with one of my friends. I remember, GT4 had been out for a few months. I bought a xbox strictly for XBMC, but someone told me about this Forza game that came out; I decided what the heck, I'll give any racing game a spin. From that day forward, I started to dislike Gran Turismo.
In comes my friend, he always wanted to play GT4, but I had already sold the game. One day I handed him the controller and said "this is why I sold GT4". He played one race, one single 🤬 race without even altering my settings or checking out the car customization, then promptly handed me back the controller and said "you're crazy GT4 is way more realistic".

Now before the GT lovers get all excited, let me give you some more information about this said friend. The PS2 was all he owned and all he ever did was talk smack about the xbox and the fact that I would even buy one. He played GT4 with TCS and ASM at max settings, while I played Forza with only ABS activated. Remember how he didn't even adjust my settings? I asked him why he didn't like Forza and could form an opinion after playing just 3 laps. His response, "Keeping the car on the road and avoiding spins was far too difficult".


Fast forward to the release of Forza 2. Said friend does not own a PS3 and I give him a free 360 that I was able to recover from the RROD. He still refuses to play Forza, but "his" 360 was backup enabled. So I threw him a disc and said, why don't you try it for more than 3 laps and alter the options before saying it's worthless. He became hooked and even admitted to being a fanboy before.

Fast forward to release of GT5, he actually spends a good amount of time trying the game at my house. Eventually he asked, "did you really buy a PS3 for this game"? If so I suggest you get your money back because this game blows".

Lol

 

[CarreraGT]

What sould really happen when you hit a kerb (albeit with a little help from the tyres )

 

[Terronium-12]

What sould really happen when you hit a kerb (albeit with a little help from the tyres )

That can happen in FM3.

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

That can happen in FM3.

Not exactly. In Fm3 the side of the car away from curb is not effected by the side hitting the curb and still stick to the road as if nothing is happening. In the video the car is push away from the curb after hit it.