Israel - Palestine discussion thread
- Thread starter Beeblebrox237
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- mr_geez
Funny thing is both sides need each other for their own political benefits. Without Israel there is nothing Hamas can offer to people of Palestine, just like right wing parties in Knesset don't have much to offer besides hard stance against Palestinians.
For example, you are Hamas, you know who won elections in Israel in 2013 but you still fire those home made rockets which sometimes kill some poor souls who are outside the protective anit-rocket shield plus just few weeks ago you let someone kill those young Jews. You really don't think there will be massive consequences with new Israeli government? How freaking dumb and opportunistic can you be? How about the rest of Arab world? Instead of giving oil money to Hamas so they can buy more weapons, maybe spend all this cash on making common people lives more comfortable with "luxuries" like schools, running water, fully supplied hospitals. I know, crazy idea. Last but not least, Israel as a country is not moving nowhere so maybe it is time to change your tactics.
And how about you Jews? How is that aggressive Kibbutz Ideology working out for you? Is it cool for you to send all your children for obligatory military service? Human rights for Arabs in Israel? Imprisonment of people without trial? Screaming "Antisemitism!!" anyone dares to question your actions.
Both sides share equal responsibility for what is happening. It's just political perpetuum mobile that will keep spinning till the end of days.
For example, you are Hamas, you know who won elections in Israel in 2013 but you still fire those home made rockets which sometimes kill some poor souls who are outside the protective anit-rocket shield plus just few weeks ago you let someone kill those young Jews. You really don't think there will be massive consequences with new Israeli government? How freaking dumb and opportunistic can you be? How about the rest of Arab world? Instead of giving oil money to Hamas so they can buy more weapons, maybe spend all this cash on making common people lives more comfortable with "luxuries" like schools, running water, fully supplied hospitals. I know, crazy idea. Last but not least, Israel as a country is not moving nowhere so maybe it is time to change your tactics.
And how about you Jews? How is that aggressive Kibbutz Ideology working out for you? Is it cool for you to send all your children for obligatory military service? Human rights for Arabs in Israel? Imprisonment of people without trial? Screaming "Antisemitism!!" anyone dares to question your actions.
Both sides share equal responsibility for what is happening. It's just political perpetuum mobile that will keep spinning till the end of days.
mister dog
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What is the response of the international community in general i wonder; our good friend Obama gave his support to Israel to "defend itself" today, due to the powerful Jewish lobby in the states (like any US president before him also), and the UN and Europe can only watch at the sidelines (like they usually do) and urge both parties to renounce violence...
International politics are a great farce ruled by money and power, just like almost any other institution frankly.
Dotini
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To read read Sun Tzu, Machiavelli and Game of Thrones is to know all you need to know about it.
mister dog
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Well i haven't watched the series so forgive my reaction but i've been interested in Sun Tzu and Machiavelli since i watched the Sopranos 10 years ago, so those books are definitely on my list 
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That's why I pretty much gave up concerning about this conflict. I'll just keep watching unfold itself into another senseless killing spree from both sides.
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It is hard to remain unmoved by many of the pictures coming out of Gaza. I believe that Israel does have a right to defend itself, but the brutality and scale of what they are doing in Gaza is hard to justify - and I really do wonder how many people in Israel look at the kind of images that the rest of us are seeing.
The Independent has a gallery of pictures today, some of which are incredibly distressing and sad - the look of anguish and pain on the faces of young children, sometimes bloodied and including those who are no more than toddlers, is hard to stomach. You can see them here: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelgaza-conflict-children-make-up-a-fifth-of-palestinian-deaths-9610425.html. (Gallery is half way down that page) The saddest thing is that these images represent only a fraction of the suffering being inflicted on the Gazan people - and I've seen considerably more disturbing images than those contained in this gallery in the recent past.
Israel may well have a right, or even a duty, to act against the militants in Gaza - but they also have the moral responsibility to act proportionately. This is where Israel's actions seem to go from potentially justifiable to not justifiable. However, it is hard to see how Israel can protect its citizens without attacking militants in Gaza - but what I can't understand is how and why there are not more safe areas for families and children who are not involved in the conflict, and why Israel seems incapable of limiting the impact of their actions on innocents, particularly children, who are estimated to constitute some 20% of casualties.
The Independent has a gallery of pictures today, some of which are incredibly distressing and sad - the look of anguish and pain on the faces of young children, sometimes bloodied and including those who are no more than toddlers, is hard to stomach. You can see them here: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelgaza-conflict-children-make-up-a-fifth-of-palestinian-deaths-9610425.html. (Gallery is half way down that page) The saddest thing is that these images represent only a fraction of the suffering being inflicted on the Gazan people - and I've seen considerably more disturbing images than those contained in this gallery in the recent past.
Israel may well have a right, or even a duty, to act against the militants in Gaza - but they also have the moral responsibility to act proportionately. This is where Israel's actions seem to go from potentially justifiable to not justifiable. However, it is hard to see how Israel can protect its citizens without attacking militants in Gaza - but what I can't understand is how and why there are not more safe areas for families and children who are not involved in the conflict, and why Israel seems incapable of limiting the impact of their actions on innocents, particularly children, who are estimated to constitute some 20% of casualties.
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- Chrunch_Houston
I'd be there!!!
The Israelis do all they can to avoid civilian casualties. They use surveillance to see where the rockets are being stored, then they call the residents and politely tell them to GET THE HELL OUT!!!!
They watch from drones - if no one leaves they drop something like a flash-bang grenade. That usually scares them out of the house before the bomb actually hits.
From what I hear, they give them 8 minutes to get out.
Yeah, Id be there, and I'd probably be cheering too!
BHRxRacer
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Um. So the most wanted man on the planet escapes into a hospital, and the police give the patients 8 minutes to get out. Some can't. You'd cheer on the police to level the place with everyone in it, just for that one guy?
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BHRxRacer
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What if you were being held hostage?
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If I were being held hostage by the IDF (Israel) I'd feel fine.
If I were being held hostage by Hamas - I'd be worried about being beheaded or shot or whatever else they routinely do to dispose of the poor infidels that end up in their hands.
They act like violent wild animals - they should be treated no better.
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BHRxRacer
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Well, you didn't answer the question. The last sentence seals the deal to me though.
http://www.memorialparkpsychiatry.com/
Seek help.
VolkswagenX
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Any proof to your claim? are you just here to spread the racist zionist propaganda or just insane?
mister dog
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I wonder how you'd feel about idiots cheering when they overlook the bombing of your hometown in Texas.
They hardly give people a minute before they bomb their house. How nice no, they give you a minute or 2 to leave your house before they bomb it to the ground. Ah yes that's because all those families stockpile munition no? Yeah right
Nope they bomb immediatly.
BHRxRacer
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Even if they give them a 10 hour warning.I wonder how you'd feel about idiots cheering when they overlook the bombing of your hometown in Texas.
They hardly give people a minute before they bomb their house. How nice no, they give you a minute or 2 to leave your house before they bomb it to the ground. Ah yes that's because all those families stockpile munition no? Yeah right
Nope they bomb immediatly.
I don't know what's more psychotic, thinking 100+ civilians is justifiable collateral damage for a bunch of wanted people, or enjoying watching people die. Reminds me of what the Libyans did to Qathafi. It doesn't matter what a person did to you, if you want to kill him, do it. Enjoying it though, makes you a savage that requires immediate mental help.
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This is rather my point - there is a disconnect between those who wish to see something done about the rocket attacks (justifiable) and the unacceptable consequences of such actions (civilian casualties in Gaza).
If my town/region/country were being attacked like Israel is, I'd be quite happy to see the army go in and do something about it - that, in my opinion at least, is justified and acceptable. The problem is, however, that the Israeli response is not only disproportionate, but is simply ineffective against those who they are claiming to target, meanwhile they are causing immense suffering to the ordinary people of Gaza in the process. This is resulting in an entire generation of traumatized children and youth, which in turn is providing the raw material for armed resistance for years to come. In other words, it seems totally counterproductive.
One of many questions is, what else can Israel do to stop the rocket attacks? One rather obvious answer is to be seen to take more seriously the legitimate concerns of the Palestinian people, but that is unlikely while the rocket attacks continue. Sadly, the alternative approach - violence - seems to be the only language that both sides have in common and thus that is what is happening.
So while I can understand the above picture, I'd also ask those who sympathise with the Israelis who live under the constant threat of attack whether they feel the resulting collateral damage is totallly justified, and how they feel when they view pictures like those coming out of Gaza in the last week or so, some examples of which I've linked to below.
Warning: some graphic/disturbing pictures
http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article9606389.ece/alternates/w1024/gaza-5.jpg
http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article9594664.ece/alternates/w1024/gaza-1.jpg
http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article9599532.ece/alternates/w1024/gaza-8.jpg
http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article9605008.ece/alternates/w1024/gaza-7.jpg
http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article9594802.ece/alternates/w1024/gaza-7.jpg
http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article9610436.ece/alternates/w1024/gaza2.jpg
The remains of a tank shell on the 4th floor of the al Wafa hospital in Gaza earlier this week.
(source: Reuters/published in Israeli newspaper Haaretz).
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zzz_pt
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VolkswagenX
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Many in this thread (even the most neutral) fail to realize that the Palestinians are living under an illegal occupation by an evil lunatic regime. Everyone who doesn't see that their only goal is to get every Palestinian out of Palestine ( they leave or get exterminated) is insane.
The Palestinians have every right to fight their oppressors. They are the only real victims here, not these genocidal maniacs who'se only claim to the land comes from fiction and not historical facts! And don't give me that junk about the Palestinians being offered peace by these maniacs. No sane person would accept these ridiculous offers.
The Palestinians have every right to fight their oppressors. They are the only real victims here, not these genocidal maniacs who'se only claim to the land comes from fiction and not historical facts! And don't give me that junk about the Palestinians being offered peace by these maniacs. No sane person would accept these ridiculous offers.
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What the 🤬 are some people blabbering out of their mouths here? They're actually defending a terrorist organization whose war tactics involve deliberately having their civilians killed to receive pity from other countries?
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-...-encourages-Hamas-to-use-human-shields-362927
The dumps I take after eating a bag of potato chips are worth more than Hamas.
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-...-encourages-Hamas-to-use-human-shields-362927
The dumps I take after eating a bag of potato chips are worth more than Hamas.
mister dog
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Good effort, but next time try inserting some text into the message. That way it'll have some content.
mister dog
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Let me guess, the link didn't fit your pro-Hamas agenda so you dismissed it as a Jewish conspiracy?
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Funny how Israel hasn't been in Gaza since 2005. In fact many Israeli's were forcefully evicted, by gunpoint, from their homes. It's also funny how the government (Actually terrorist organization) involved in representing Palestinians actively uses international aid money to attack Israel, not help their citizens.
mister dog
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Don't you understand, Hamas puts all those civilians in those houses deliberatly, so afterwards they can cry for the dead (bastards!). And the poor IDF, who only act in their own defense, have to waste all those perfectly fine rockets and shells to aid this Hamas propaganda scheme.
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